Why is Ron Paul not higher in the polls?

[Myst]

I dont understand it.. someone fill an ignorant Canadian in..
The guy is the best politician I have seen in a long long time, and makes me want to move to America if he comes in power - I think a lot of people feel the same way. He had 100,000+ donors raising $6 million in one day - so why is he in single digits in the polls????

[L-Pink]

The media isn't selling him.

[nico-t]

and i bet alot of votes go to this guy https://youtube.com/watch?v=viIuqNgc-bY

[Martin]

Give it time... He has a message I think resonates with pretty much with all freedom loving people..

[Myst]

Originally Posted by Martin

Give it time... He has a message I think resonates with pretty much with all freedom loving people..

I just think its going to be too little too late.. elections are coming up in a very short time right?

[wil_I_Am]

I'm pretty sure that I know why...

yesterday I got an automated "poll" call that gave me the following question:

"If you were to vote today, who would you vote for?"
PRESS 1 for Rudy Giuliani
PRESS 2 for Mike Huckabee
PRESS 3 for Mitt Romney
PRESS 4 for John McCain
PRESS 5 for ALL OTHERS


... I couldn't believe it. So I went and did a search on these phone polls, check out this:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=JPpCvF7N3Vg

fyi.. that wasn't the same organization that i was called by...

[ytcracker]

people are stupid thats why

[Pleasurepays]

People fear change and the uncertainties associated with change. People don't want to be continually told about how everything is going to be dismantled and torn apart because its not working well... they want to be told that everything is going to be happy, sunny and wonderful and no child will ever cry again under their Presidency.

Politicians have to lie to get elected. They have to say they will do and achieve a whole lot of impossible tasks (most of which they have no authority at all to achieve without the full cooperation of the House and Senate) because its what people want to hear.

... and what happens... the best liar gets elected and very little changes for better or worse. the same arguments in government resume. all arguments follow the same party lines. the same idiots on either side of the political fence are still complaining about the same shit and about the other party and somewhere... in a distant galaxy, a fairly intelligent race of reasonable beings are silently watching and weeping.

[ytcracker]

im going to take to the streets with weapons and liquor if ron paul does not win the nomination

[Barefootsies]

Why is Ron Paul not higher in the polls?

[d-null]

it seems to me that the big media could be a lot more impartial and fair in these stages of the election campaigning

the coverage is very slanted to the point of directing the public into considering only two choices and instantly marginalizing any other choices

[sinclair]

Because he is the whack job of the GOP. Cary on.

[Fat Panda]

i love libertarians....did i spell that right?

[TheDoc]

Because 3 or 4 states decide who the rest of the country will vote for. These are called the Primaries. If Ron Paul doesn't win those states, it's over with for him. So the other 90% of America can want Ron Paul but they don't really have a choice for who they get to vote for.

Sad but true.

[Young]

100,000 people in a country of 300,000,000 is supposed to register on any type of scale?

Wake me up when you Paultards stop dreaming. The guy is a wack job. Whoever wants to live in The United Toilets of America go ahead and vote for that racist nut.

[aico]

His party doesn't own the media.

[Dollarmansteve]

because centrist leaders of middle-left or middle-right parties always win since they appeal to the vast majority of voters.

[Snake Doctor]

Contrary to what most of his supporters believe (they're like a religious cult) most people don't like most of his views.
The people who do like his views LOVE his views, and are out raising money and annoying the fuck out of everyone they know telling them about Ron Paul.

The sad truth for them is that most people disagree with him on most things.
Also, he's running in the republican primary. He's opposed to a war the the vast majority of republicans support. He's suggesting a foreign policy that's anathema to the republican base.

[kane]

There are a few reasons.

1. He really isn't a republican and many republicans see him as someone who is just trying to use their party as a way to get a nomination.

2. He has some good ideas, but he is also very radical. If you are very radical you are often seen as a "whackjob" candidate and not taken seriously.

3. He seems to be running for president before he even wins the primary. The reality is that right now he doesn't have to convince everyone he is the best person for the job, he has to convince the republicans that he is the best person for the job and so far that isn't working out. The republican party is basically run by the conservative christian right and they have massive influence during the primaries. You can see this influence in the rise of huckabee and the fact that thompson is even running. Ron Paul is all about freedom of choice and many of the hard right republicans are not. They don't want to hear a message other than theirs. They see a guy like Paul giving equal voice to people that don't believe like them and they don't want that.

4. He is opposed to the war in Iraq. The irony here is that I recently read he is the top polling candidate among military personal, but many republicans believe in the war in Iraq and they feel that if we pull out we are admitting defeat and the terrorist win. Paul is for leaving and they don't want that.


Add in the fact that he has raised a nice chunk of money, but I have never even seen or heard a commercial for him and it makes me wonder how well he is running his campaign. Also, while he has raised some nice money, it is nothing compared to what the top candidates have raised. The big boys are spending a ton of cash and are doing everything in their power to get their names out there. It is going to be hard for him to compete with that.

[TheDoc]

Kane pretty much nailed it...

And I'm not sure how strong the views are U.S. wide, but I do know a few ladies who wouldn't vote for him because of his views on roe vs wade. I don't think too many pro choice Women will support him.

The Internet WILL NOT win you an election. He must get out and work/walk/talk/bs Iowa and New Hampshire 10,000 times harder than the others. He has to get past stage one to even have a chance at president.

Not that I want it, the republican party doesn't want it (backfire), but it looks like Huckabee is going to be the man to beat. Christians I guess are the majority, making this a real problem.

[buzzy]

Originally Posted by kane

There are a few reasons.

1. He really isn't a republican and many republicans see him as someone who is just trying to use their party as a way to get a nomination.

2. He has some good ideas, but he is also very radical. If you are very radical you are often seen as a "whackjob" candidate and not taken seriously.

3. He seems to be running for president before he even wins the primary. The reality is that right now he doesn't have to convince everyone he is the best person for the job, he has to convince the republicans that he is the best person for the job and so far that isn't working out. The republican party is basically run by the conservative christian right and they have massive influence during the primaries. You can see this influence in the rise of huckabee and the fact that thompson is even running. Ron Paul is all about freedom of choice and many of the hard right republicans are not. They don't want to hear a message other than theirs. They see a guy like Paul giving equal voice to people that don't believe like them and they don't want that.

4. He is opposed to the war in Iraq. The irony here is that I recently read he is the top polling candidate among military personal, but many republicans believe in the war in Iraq and they feel that if we pull out we are admitting defeat and the terrorist win. Paul is for leaving and they don't want that.


Add in the fact that he has raised a nice chunk of money, but I have never even seen or heard a commercial for him and it makes me wonder how well he is running his campaign. Also, while he has raised some nice money, it is nothing compared to what the top candidates have raised. The big boys are spending a ton of cash and are doing everything in their power to get their names out there. It is going to be hard for him to compete with that.

Radical? lol. I see invading 2 countries and threatening to bomb a 3rd as "Radical".

[erehwon]

I chalk it up to the mainstream media already deciding on who the President is going to be. I tend to watch ABC News, and CNN but if you look who is reporting the news at the network Disney owns, you will find they are Democrat heavy on their slant. Right off the top of my head, they have former Clinton press secretary George Stephanopoulos who is ABC's Chief Washington Correspondent, and Cokie Roberts, who's father was Hale Boggs the Democratic House Majority Leader in 1972.

Ron Paul's one day fund-raising record that beat John Kerry's one day record got barely a blip on ABC last night,

[SifuE]

I Hope He Wins!

[kane]

Originally Posted by buzzy

Radical? lol. I see invading 2 countries and threatening to bomb a 3rd as "Radical".

well, sadly in our country saying some of the things Paul says is considered more radical than invading other countries.

[kane]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Kane pretty much nailed it...

And I'm not sure how strong the views are U.S. wide, but I do know a few ladies who wouldn't vote for him because of his views on roe vs wade. I don't think too many pro choice Women will support him.

The Internet WILL NOT win you an election. He must get out and work/walk/talk/bs Iowa and New Hampshire 10,000 times harder than the others. He has to get past stage one to even have a chance at president.

Not that I want it, the republican party doesn't want it (backfire), but it looks like Huckabee is going to be the man to beat. Christians I guess are the majority, making this a real problem.

Right now the republicans are trying to "out conservative" each other. There isn't a candidate the hard right really loves and they have come out and said they may choose not to support any of them. With their support a candidate can win the primaries and has some strength going into the general election, without the primaries are anyone's game and the general election will very hard to win.

Huckabee looks good right now, but lets wait and see. Eventually he is going to have to leave the bible belt states and go into larger states where he is still running 3-4 behind rudy and mit.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by kane

Right now the republicans are trying to "out conservative" each other. There isn't a candidate the hard right really loves and they have come out and said they may choose not to support any of them. With their support a candidate can win the primaries and has some strength going into the general election, without the primaries are anyone's game and the general election will very hard to win.

Huckabee looks good right now, but lets wait and see. Eventually he is going to have to leave the bible belt states and go into larger states where he is still running 3-4 behind rudy and mit.

If the republicans are smart and want to win they'll nominate John McCain.

I don't see any of the other guys doing very well in the general.

[ADL Colin]

It is not at ALL surprising that he is 6th in all major polls with about 5% of the vote. Even though a Republican he's pretty much a libertarian. Most Americans are NOT libertarian in their outlook. Libertarians, outside of college campuses, and GFY are a considerable minority.

[theking]

Because he does not have a snow balls chance in hell of being nominated let alone being elected.

[Young]

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

Most Americans are NOT libertarian in their outlook. Libertarians, outside of college campuses, and GFY are a considerable minority.

read : reality

[Myst]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Kane pretty much nailed it...

And I'm not sure how strong the views are U.S. wide, but I do know a few ladies who wouldn't vote for him because of his views on roe vs wade. I don't think too many pro choice Women will support him.

The Internet WILL NOT win you an election. He must get out and work/walk/talk/bs Iowa and New Hampshire 10,000 times harder than the others. He has to get past stage one to even have a chance at president.

Not that I want it, the republican party doesn't want it (backfire), but it looks like Huckabee is going to be the man to beat. Christians I guess are the majority, making this a real problem.

he wants the states to decide on abortion laws

[drjones]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

People fear change and the uncertainties associated with change. People don't want to be continually told about how everything is going to be dismantled and torn apart because its not working well... they want to be told that everything is going to be happy, sunny and wonderful and no child will ever cry again under their Presidency.

Politicians have to lie to get elected. They have to say they will do and achieve a whole lot of impossible tasks (most of which they have no authority at all to achieve without the full cooperation of the House and Senate) because its what people want to hear.

... and what happens... the best liar gets elected and very little changes for better or worse. the same arguments in government resume. all arguments follow the same party lines. the same idiots on either side of the political fence are still complaining about the same shit and about the other party and somewhere... in a distant galaxy, a fairly intelligent race of reasonable beings are silently watching and weeping.

Well said

[drjones]

Originally Posted by kane

There are a few reasons.

1. He really isn't a republican and many republicans see him as someone who is just trying to use their party as a way to get a nomination.

2. He has some good ideas, but he is also very radical. If you are very radical you are often seen as a "whackjob" candidate and not taken seriously.

3. He seems to be running for president before he even wins the primary. The reality is that right now he doesn't have to convince everyone he is the best person for the job, he has to convince the republicans that he is the best person for the job and so far that isn't working out. The republican party is basically run by the conservative christian right and they have massive influence during the primaries. You can see this influence in the rise of huckabee and the fact that thompson is even running. Ron Paul is all about freedom of choice and many of the hard right republicans are not. They don't want to hear a message other than theirs. They see a guy like Paul giving equal voice to people that don't believe like them and they don't want that.

4. He is opposed to the war in Iraq. The irony here is that I recently read he is the top polling candidate among military personal, but many republicans believe in the war in Iraq and they feel that if we pull out we are admitting defeat and the terrorist win. Paul is for leaving and they don't want that.


Add in the fact that he has raised a nice chunk of money, but I have never even seen or heard a commercial for him and it makes me wonder how well he is running his campaign. Also, while he has raised some nice money, it is nothing compared to what the top candidates have raised. The big boys are spending a ton of cash and are doing everything in their power to get their names out there. It is going to be hard for him to compete with that.

One thing that has happened as a result of the war and the bush administration is that people have left the republican party in droves. The ones that are left are the religious wingnut, "Praise jesus and pass the ammunition" types. So while support for a pro-war candidate is strong for the "republican base", it is that way because so many, more centrist republicans have been driven from the party.

[notoldschool]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

If the republicans are smart and want to win they'll nominate John McCain.

I don't see any of the other guys doing very well in the general.

Ron Paul has a far better chance then mr flip flop senality farse puppet pud.

[teg0]

Its that R next to his name. But i guess its a better move to be a more liberal republican than it is to be a more conservative democrat. Democrats are more open towards change.

But as far as polls go, that R is hurting him.

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by notoldschool

Ron Paul has a far better chance then mr flip flop senality farse puppet pud.

Based on what? McCain is probably polling best against Clinton right now. Beats her in some polls. Paul is so far back no one is even asking the question. McCain is getting about 5 times as many voters as Paul in the current primary polls.

[ADL Colin]

Republicans are a smart group. They're gonna vote for someone who actually has a chance to win. You know, a guy that is actually willing to rig an election.

[Young]

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

Based on what? McCain is probably polling best against Clinton right now. Beats her in some polls. Paul is so far back no one is even asking the question. McCain is getting about 5 times as many voters as Paul in the current primary polls.

If you were online 23 hours a day spamming your propaganda bullshit all over the internet, gaming polls, gaming digg, and had 10's of thousands of fellow spammers overwhelming the web with crap ... wouldn't you falsely believe that your candidate had a chance?

[tblake]

Well 17 days left until Iowa and then we will know for sure if there is any magical underground Ron Paul vote movement full of independents and young new voters!

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by Young

If you were online 23 hours a day spamming your propaganda bullshit all over the internet, gaming polls, gaming digg, and had 10's of thousands of fellow spammers overwhelming the web with crap ... wouldn't you falsely believe that your candidate had a chance?

See sig!!!

[notoldschool]

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

Republicans are a smart group. They're gonna vote for someone who actually has a chance to win. You know, a guy that is actually willing to rig an election.

Well that would be Mcain then. hes a phony.

[rebel23]

if he can gets his voters out he will do well in the early states don't you worry about that

the polls massively understate him, he has pointed out that a lot of the polls leave him off their lists (see the youtube video further up) that a lot of his supporters were not registered republicans who voted at the last election or primary and that a lot of them might be young without landlines so the polling organizations don't contact them

Paul has his best chance in Iowa and New Hampshire because they're open primaries with no voter registrations you can just show up and vote or caucus so in theory if he can get enough of his supporters out these formats should favour him massively and he's spending and campaigning hard in those states while Guiliani and Thompson have already given up on them

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

Based on what? McCain is probably polling best against Clinton right now. Beats her in some polls. Paul is so far back no one is even asking the question. McCain is getting about 5 times as many voters as Paul in the current primary polls.

Based on current polling data, McCain is the best general election bet for the republicans. (John Edwards is currently the best bet for the democrats)

Of the "top tier" candidates, they all have big problems with the base.
Giuliani's liberal position on social issues, Romney flip-flopping on abortion.

Huckabee's tax record is going to hurt him with the base, and in the general he would get absolutely killed once the dems started running attack ads on the national sales tax he wants to implement.

McCain is pretty much the only chance the republicans have of winning next fall IMO.

[J. Falcon]

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

because centrist leaders of middle-left or middle-right parties always win since they appeal to the vast majority of voters.

bingo

[kane]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

If the republicans are smart and want to win they'll nominate John McCain.

I don't see any of the other guys doing very well in the general.

I would disagree. McCain really comes off like a guy that will say anything to get elected and many people think he is too much like Bush. I think the repub with the best chance to win it all would be Rudy. Here is why I say this.

As I said earlier the hard Christian right doesn't really love any of the candidates and least of all Rudy. That said they might back him (or for that matter any of them) if it comes down to facing Hilary because they will go with the "anyone but Clinton" mentality. This election is going to be less about values and morals and more about policy than the 2000 election (which was the last time we didn't have an incumbent running) so having someone who will pound the pulpit of morality won't really help - that message won't resonate outside the bible belt. In the end there is still a republican backlash happening in this country. The democrats have disappointed, but there are still more people that dislike republicans than ever before. When you add in that plus the overwhelming unpopularity of the president it will be hard for any republican to get elected. People don't really want a leader to tell them how to think or what to believe. They want someone that will fight terrorism, keep them safe and do something about immigration (and the economy). Rudy is republican enough to get the more moderate republicans behind him and I think much of the party would support him because they don't like Clinton (that is to say that Clinton actually wins the democratic nomination). He is also enough of a social moderate that he can pull in enough of the independent moderates. In the end most people outside New York only know him as the mayor that took charge on 9/11 and he is not about to let anyone forget that. When they go to the polls they would be more likely to pick the guy that doesn't panic than they are the person that they are unsure about.

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by kane

I would disagree. McCain really comes off like a guy that will say anything to get elected and many people think he is too much like Bush. I think the repub with the best chance to win it all would be Rudy. Here is why I say this.

In the long run they probably have about the same chance. It comes down to campaign strategy and what happens on the campaign trail. Bush got Kerry pretty good with that flip/flop stuff and Kerry put his foot in his mouth a few times and proved him right. Oh, and "Swift Boat Vets".

"It's the Economy, Stupid!" A serendipitious slogan that started as a sign in the campaign strategy room.

[rebel23]

Originally Posted by kane

There are a few reasons.

1. He really isn't a republican and many republicans see him as someone who is just trying to use their party as a way to get a nomination.

he has been elected to congress 10 times as a Republican and has been a Republican for over 30 years so he is pretty much "really" a Republican.

Originally Posted by kane

3. He seems to be running for president before he even wins the primary. The reality is that right now he doesn't have to convince everyone he is the best person for the job, he has to convince the republicans that he is the best person for the job and so far that isn't working out. The republican party is basically run by the conservative christian right and they have massive influence during the primaries. You can see this influence in the rise of huckabee and the fact that thompson is even running. Ron Paul is all about freedom of choice and many of the hard right republicans are not. They don't want to hear a message other than theirs. They see a guy like Paul giving equal voice to people that don't believe like them and they don't want that.

Paul is bringing more people to the party all the time, new people, people who dropped out and he is raising more money than any other GOP candidate. he is a GOP sensation

Originally Posted by kane

4. He is opposed to the war in Iraq. The irony here is that I recently read he is the top polling candidate among military personal, but many republicans believe in the war in Iraq and they feel that if we pull out we are admitting defeat and the terrorist win. Paul is for leaving and they don't want that.


Add in the fact that he has raised a nice chunk of money, but I have never even seen or heard a commercial for him and it makes me wonder how well he is running his campaign. Also, while he has raised some nice money, it is nothing compared to what the top candidates have raised. The big boys are spending a ton of cash and are doing everything in their power to get their names out there. It is going to be hard for him to compete with that.

Republicans have run on an anti-war position before. Paul is running on President Bush's foreign policy in 2000, no nation building, no policing of the world, Nixon ran on the same policy, whenever they've ran on this policy the GOP have won elections, instead today they're losing elections like the congres with the opposite policy and the GOP risks putting the Democrats in power for a long time with this stupid foreign policy, it used to be the Democrats who were for the wars and the GOP for non-intervention until the former Democrats took over the Republican party (neocons), Paul will take it back in a true revolution

[Young]

Originally Posted by rebel23

Paul will take it back in a true revolution

So you honestly believe that polling at 5% is going to win him the nomination?

Ron Paul supporters truly are delusional. It's one thing to stand for "the cause" and encourage people to have a closer look at his ideas....it's a completely other thing to guarantee a victory.

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by tblake

magical underground Ron Paul vote.

No comment necessary.

[pr0]

Originally Posted by Young

If you were online 23 hours a day spamming your propaganda bullshit all over the internet, gaming polls, gaming digg, and had 10's of thousands of fellow spammers overwhelming the web with crap ... wouldn't you falsely believe that your candidate had a chance?

technically e-mailing for support of a political candidate is not considered spam under the law.....so tip to all you asshole bulkers out there

run your list with a link to the ron paul site....isp's can't filter it out, its not illegal

[rebel23]

Originally Posted by Young

So you honestly believe that polling at 5% is going to win him the nomination?

Ron Paul supporters truly are delusional. It's one thing to stand for "the cause" and encourage people to have a closer look at his ideas....it's a completely other thing to guarantee a victory.

no one can guarantee victory but he will do well in Iowa and New Hampshire much more than the polls suggest that's what I think, thats what the Iowa Independent thinks and that's what the media in New Hampshire think so lets just wait and see...

whatever the outcome of the election Ron Paul will have a lasting effect on the GOP like Barry Goldwater in the 1960's paved the way for Reagan who was a close friend of Ron Paul as he was one of 4 congressmen who endorsed him for the Presidential nomination at the Republican convention in the 70's, btw Barry Goldwater Jnr endorses Ron Paul.