Understanding the conflicts facing different business models in our industry today! - GoFuckYourself.com

felipeav · 12-04-2008, 02:31 PM

I first posted this thread in a forum dedicated to webmasters working mostly in the shemale niche and some told me that it would be good to share it here as well, so here it is:

I would like to share my opinion in this board regarding what I think about the conflicts involving paysites owners, resellers and the different business models. Since almost daily we have the same discussions going on everywhere with no conclusion, I though that sharing my views could help some figure out things better.

Since paysites exists, some companies focus into their members and some into their webmasters and they both try to please their "assets" in the best way they can. If you are in the first group, you try to offer more charging less. If you are in the second one, you try to charge more so that you can pay bigger commissions and it's financially harder to offer a better product.

Since free sites exists, I haven't seen resellers boycotting companies that operate pleasing their pockets while offering very few to members, but I have seen many times (and still see) many boycotting companies that operate pleasing members while not pleasing them that much.

Since the world exists, there are two types of customers: the smart and the not so smart ones. Many smart ones today weren't smart ones yesterday and probably learned it the hard way: by being hurt in some way. Others are naturally smart so they always naturally avoiding being hurt. They usually think before they act.

Since all financially profitable business models exists, there is just no real honesty inside it's heart and it will never be just because profit and real honesty just do not match. It will never be because the business owner will never tell the truth to the customer. The day you get into any store and the salesman tell you: "Sir, I have an excellent product for you that I am sure you will love, but if you go to the next block you will find one even better for the same price" then the entire business model in the world changed and now business can make profit being honest.

Now of course there will always be discussion regarding this involving paysite owners, resellers and maybe customers but IMO it's just a big loss of time just because this discussions won't educate the not so smart customers.

One thing I can make sure here, no customer likes to be hurt and if one business model is taking the lead by hurting the not so smart customers, then the other business model should see this as a big opportunity in order to defeat the other business model, because again: no one likes to be hurt. That being said, why do we see hundreds of threads of complains everywhere involving paysites owners, resellers and customers and few ones (if any) trying to find ways to educate the not so smart customers? Think about that.

I run my paysites trying to treat members like kings and webmasters as serious partners and I do not do this because I don't have skills to run it in the other way - I run it like this just because I feel safer. I sleep better by providing real value to the people that pay me money expecting just that: good entertainment.

I not only see the whole (some exceptions) business model that hurts members as an potential opportunity for my business to grow but I also love the legal tube sites as well. They are great! They offer a better entertainment service than more than half of the paysites in the world and they do that free of charge. If you can't sell to those surfers, that it's a great, because that means that your paysite can't compete with a tube site. I will try to make sure mines does.

I would really like to chat with people looking forward finding a way to educate the not so smart potential clients. Many companies running in the first group I mentioned above though that the review sites would do this. Sure, sure they would. Remember they are resellers looking for commissions, and "since free sites exists ..."

A message to...

... paysite owners that focus on members: remember that resellers want commissions - that is their business, once you stop making them money they will promote other sites, dating, cams, penis pill or anything else that does. If you want to offer the best while charging very few: invest a lot of your money in commissions or build your in house traffic department otherwise you are dead just because you can't convince them to help you offer the best because their business is sales commissions.

... paysite owners that focus on webmasters: even though I work in the other way, I do not think there is something really wrong in this model regarding scam or honesty that is different from any other business since the user is always the one responsibly for his decisions. The more not so smart customers there are, the more money you will make by offering less, if they educate themselves, then you know you will be out and move to other business where you can find more not so smart customers again.

... resellers: I don't think you are wrong for pushing the business model that focus on your interest (if it's just money) more than into the members, why would I? Even though it does hurt my business model a lot as a program owner, that's just the way it is and I understand that. All I can try to do is to work into finding a way to monetize your traffic better and better while offering a better product for the members, and that's what we are doing right now. Since we started we said: "It's our job to monetize your traffic always one step ahead the competitors, because we know that if we don't retain your members, we won't retain you as an affiliate."

varhau · 12-04-2008, 02:41 PM

good biz thread, very transparent

Bruno · 12-04-2008, 03:22 PM

great, worthy read bro =)
cheers,
Bruno

Bruno · 12-04-2008, 03:24 PM

[double post]

Shai West · 12-04-2008, 03:48 PM

felipeav, that was great. Really well done.xxx

notime · 12-04-2008, 04:08 PM

"I run my paysites trying to treat members like kings and webmasters as serious partners and I do not do this because I don't have skills to run it in the other way - I run it like this just because I feel safer. I sleep better by providing real value to the people that pay me money expecting just that: good entertainment."

One of the best lines on GFY in 2008.
I run my bizz the same way and it is rewarding indeed I can tell you and it even gets better during the current crisis. For the same reason.

pocketkangaroo · 12-04-2008, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notime

"I run my paysites trying to treat members like kings and webmasters as serious partners and I do not do this because I don't have skills to run it in the other way - I run it like this just because I feel safer. I sleep better by providing real value to the people that pay me money expecting just that: good entertainment."

One of the best lines on GFY in 2008.
I run my bizz the same way and it is rewarding indeed I can tell you and it even gets better during the current crisis. For the same reason.

Easier said than done. There are a lot of people out there who don't have the talent to be successful that way. That is why they have to resort to other unethical methods.

notime · 12-04-2008, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

Easier said than done. There are a lot of people out there who don't have the talent to be successful that way. That is why they have to resort to other unethical methods.

Also true, but happy clients come back and angry ones stay away and tell everybody they know (and post it on forums). Which one will work best do you think in long term (not short term)?
Making money long term is frustrating sometimes (I know) but solid in the end since it grows slowly but it never goes down (only up), where short term can just "stop" or decline one day because of laws, PR, public opinion, bad posts on forums, etc.

It's always tempting to do short term things. It's a common human psychology battle in your mind to kill anything on your hunt because of hunger, but it's better to breed your flock because after a while you won't have to hunt anymore; you got milk, eggs and meat whenever you want it. If you eat too much, you'll have to hunt again and be dependend on your daily catches.

mansanabar · 12-04-2008, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notime

It's always tempting to do short term things. It's a common human psychology battle in your mind to kill anything on your hunt because of hunger, but it's better to breed your flock because after a while you won't have to hunt anymore; you got milk, eggs and meat whenever you want it. If you eat too much, you'll have to hunt again and be dependend on your daily catches.

deep, very well said!

felipeav · 12-04-2008, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

Easier said than done. There are a lot of people out there who don't have the talent to be successful that way. That is why they have to resort to other unethical methods.

I will disagree with you here. Both methods work. I know plenty of programs doing really good numbers focusing on members and also on webmasters. I don't see why those ones pleasing webmasters aren't talented, they actually also are imo.

MarkTiarra · 12-05-2008, 01:19 AM

Awesome post from a good guy! I've spoken to Felipe on many occasions and I can say he means what he says here and he gets good results cuz he takes the time to care and do things right. A lot of people could learn from his way of doing business.

DamageX · 12-05-2008, 01:33 AM

Supply and demand, free market and competition. Terms you should look up.

mateN · 12-05-2008, 12:35 PM

felipeav awesome post! =)
very transparent i love that!
mateN

12-04-2008, 02:31 PM	#1
felipeav Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 423	Understanding the conflicts facing different business models in our industry today! I first posted this thread in a forum dedicated to webmasters working mostly in the shemale niche and some told me that it would be good to share it here as well, so here it is: I would like to share my opinion in this board regarding what I think about the conflicts involving paysites owners, resellers and the different business models. Since almost daily we have the same discussions going on everywhere with no conclusion, I though that sharing my views could help some figure out things better. Since paysites exists, some companies focus into their members and some into their webmasters and they both try to please their "assets" in the best way they can. If you are in the first group, you try to offer more charging less. If you are in the second one, you try to charge more so that you can pay bigger commissions and it's financially harder to offer a better product. Since free sites exists, I haven't seen resellers boycotting companies that operate pleasing their pockets while offering very few to members, but I have seen many times (and still see) many boycotting companies that operate pleasing members while not pleasing them that much. Since the world exists, there are two types of customers: the smart and the not so smart ones. Many smart ones today weren't smart ones yesterday and probably learned it the hard way: by being hurt in some way. Others are naturally smart so they always naturally avoiding being hurt. They usually think before they act. Since all financially profitable business models exists, there is just no real honesty inside it's heart and it will never be just because profit and real honesty just do not match. It will never be because the business owner will never tell the truth to the customer. The day you get into any store and the salesman tell you: "Sir, I have an excellent product for you that I am sure you will love, but if you go to the next block you will find one even better for the same price" then the entire business model in the world changed and now business can make profit being honest. Now of course there will always be discussion regarding this involving paysite owners, resellers and maybe customers but IMO it's just a big loss of time just because this discussions won't educate the not so smart customers. One thing I can make sure here, no customer likes to be hurt and if one business model is taking the lead by hurting the not so smart customers, then the other business model should see this as a big opportunity in order to defeat the other business model, because again: no one likes to be hurt. That being said, why do we see hundreds of threads of complains everywhere involving paysites owners, resellers and customers and few ones (if any) trying to find ways to educate the not so smart customers? Think about that. I run my paysites trying to treat members like kings and webmasters as serious partners and I do not do this because I don't have skills to run it in the other way - I run it like this just because I feel safer. I sleep better by providing real value to the people that pay me money expecting just that: good entertainment. I not only see the whole (some exceptions) business model that hurts members as an potential opportunity for my business to grow but I also love the legal tube sites as well. They are great! They offer a better entertainment service than more than half of the paysites in the world and they do that free of charge. If you can't sell to those surfers, that it's a great, because that means that your paysite can't compete with a tube site. I will try to make sure mines does. I would really like to chat with people looking forward finding a way to educate the not so smart potential clients. Many companies running in the first group I mentioned above though that the review sites would do this. Sure, sure they would. Remember they are resellers looking for commissions, and "since free sites exists ..." A message to... ... paysite owners that focus on members: remember that resellers want commissions - that is their business, once you stop making them money they will promote other sites, dating, cams, penis pill or anything else that does. If you want to offer the best while charging very few: invest a lot of your money in commissions or build your in house traffic department otherwise you are dead just because you can't convince them to help you offer the best because their business is sales commissions. ... paysite owners that focus on webmasters: even though I work in the other way, I do not think there is something really wrong in this model regarding scam or honesty that is different from any other business since the user is always the one responsibly for his decisions. The more not so smart customers there are, the more money you will make by offering less, if they educate themselves, then you know you will be out and move to other business where you can find more not so smart customers again. ... resellers: I don't think you are wrong for pushing the business model that focus on your interest (if it's just money) more than into the members, why would I? Even though it does hurt my business model a lot as a program owner, that's just the way it is and I understand that. All I can try to do is to work into finding a way to monetize your traffic better and better while offering a better product for the members, and that's what we are doing right now. Since we started we said: "It's our job to monetize your traffic always one step ahead the competitors, because we know that if we don't retain your members, we won't retain you as an affiliate." __________________ Promote our sites at SpiderDollars.com

12-04-2008, 03:22 PM	#3
Bruno Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: São Paulo - SP - Brazil Posts: 1,241	great, worthy read bro =) cheers, Bruno __________________ work hard. play hard. http://www.dickmansdesign.com MSN brunodickman at hotmail.com iCQ # 107450119 See Who I Am At AdultWhosWho.com!

12-04-2008, 03:24 PM	#4
Bruno Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: São Paulo - SP - Brazil Posts: 1,241	[double post] __________________ work hard. play hard. http://www.dickmansdesign.com MSN brunodickman at hotmail.com iCQ # 107450119 See Who I Am At AdultWhosWho.com!

12-04-2008, 03:48 PM	#5
Shai West Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Still trying... Posts: 498	felipeav, that was great. Really well done.xxx __________________ Still not where I should have been by now...time to take matters into my own hands...

12-05-2008, 01:19 AM	#11
MarkTiarra Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NJ Posts: 3,833	Awesome post from a good guy! I've spoken to Felipe on many occasions and I can say he means what he says here and he gets good results cuz he takes the time to care and do things right. A lot of people could learn from his way of doing business. __________________ Retired Pornosticator

12-04-2008, 02:41 PM	#2
varhau Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 580	good biz thread, very transparent

12-04-2008, 04:08 PM	#6
notime Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: cyberspace Posts: 8,019	"I run my paysites trying to treat members like kings and webmasters as serious partners and I do not do this because I don't have skills to run it in the other way - I run it like this just because I feel safer. I sleep better by providing real value to the people that pay me money expecting just that: good entertainment." One of the best lines on GFY in 2008. I run my bizz the same way and it is rewarding indeed I can tell you and it even gets better during the current crisis. For the same reason.

12-05-2008, 01:33 AM	#12
DamageX Marketing & Strategy Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Former nomad Posts: 14,293	Supply and demand, free market and competition. Terms you should look up. __________________ Whitehat is for chumps If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

12-05-2008, 12:35 PM	#13
mateN Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3	felipeav awesome post! =) very transparent i love that! mateN