Elli

Yes, I loved the idea and wanted TGP2 to work so much! But against so much free content... *shrug*

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stickyfingerz

Typical a thread with some good debate about the biz drops down the page while retarded stupid drama threads stay at the top.

Juicy D. Links

RogerV

Always happens.. Instead of webmasters just saying it wont change. why cant they just try to come up with a solution. I thought we were all smart here on gfy

RogerV

we need to figure out a way to change things. maybe payout more to the webmasters who send traffic from censored or softcore free sites. some sort of incentive?

and less to the ones sending traffic from hardcore free sites since I bet those cancel right away

ultimatebbwdotcom

Only bad salesmen discount (or in adults case, give it away for free).

If you have content that people want, they'll pay. You can stream it or whatever and it won't affect signups or charge backs. Its not at all difficult to educate your members.

As for marketing, if other businesses did it like adult, none of us would be paying for anything - a free life if you will.

Its a joke.

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PAR

It's called getting married....

maxjohan

plead to Barrack Obama that hardcore porn and nipples should be illegal unless you verify witha visa/creditcard.

Now, that's the only way and freaking ironic at the same time too. WE have to just start an undercover group on "anti-porn"...

Who wants to play the angry gray hairy lady???

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hjnet

I already thought about ways to implement a Adult Union, but it would be required to raise enough money (HOW?) to make it powerful enough, and it would be also very very difficult to agree upon global limitations, and further to ensure that EVERYBODY is forced to follow those limitations.

hjnet

That's not powerful enough IMHO, and impossible to control

gideongallery

i have repeatedly said
product placement
process monitization
and branding bugs

no one listens

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plyndrty

I'm glad I don't have all my eggs in this porn basket.

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cashcows

I have been saying that for close to 8 to 9 years. I totally agree. If there is a demise of this industry it will be becuase of it's own undoing. Not the Gov.

There is a enough free porn that you could stop all production for 5 years and no one would even notice but the very few hardcore fans of certain actresses.

Porn DVD sales are down. PPC prices for adult is down. No one wants to pay for anything.

And it's the adult webmasters and adult internet companies that are to blame. They have no DRM, the have those stupid TGPS that give it all a way for free and now Tube sites. You think the average person is going to pay for porn when they can get it for free. It was bad enough with file sharing, but now you just type in Redtube.com or Youporn.com or some other worthless tube site.

The only thing that will save this industry...

1) A new form of porn such as virtual reality sex in the future with DRM.

2) Gov. Legislation Banning all hardcore contact that is not behind a credit card screen.

Then conversions would go back up.

Personally my conversions are good now due to the fact that 95% of my traffic is type-in traffic and I have a unique sales process. But back in 1998 I could just point a domain and make $2000 with no work at all. If what I said about happened my traffic that is converting good now would convert 4 times as good over all!

TripleXPrint

I said this a long time ago and people said I was nuts.

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cashcows

I hate when this board won't let you edit your message!

Fuck it:

I have been saying that for close to 8 to 9 years. I totally agree. If there is a demise of this industry it will be becuase of it's own undoing. Not the Gov. The truth is most of the people in this industry are not all that bright. Take a look at how this thread drops and moronic threads stay at the top as someone above pointed out.

For years the adult online industry lacked integrity and ripped people off and did not cancel memberships. Some people think what do you expect it's porn. B.S. porn can be a legit business and you can ethics. Just becuase you do not subscribe to main stream morals about sex does not make you corrupt or unethical. If you want to stay in business you have to provide real value to your customer, treat them well and sell to the over and over again.

You also don't give all of your products away for free. A 1 minute teaser trailer is one thing, a 5 to 20 minute move is ridiculous!

Many people got in adult when it was easy money and the smart ones made a killing. Today the last thing I would start would be any porn venture unless it was just to bang the chicks (and I decided to be an actor/producer). But for money there much better ways to make money.

I'd be out of the internet side now totally now if I did not own over 1000 adult domains.

There is a enough free porn that you could stop all production for 5 years and no one would even notice but the very few hardcore fans of certain actresses.

Porn DVD sales are down. PPC prices for adult is down. No one wants to pay for anything.

And it's the adult webmasters and adult internet companies that are to blame. They have no DRM, the have those stupid TGPS that give it all a way for free and now Tube sites. You think the average person is going to pay for porn when they can get it for free. It was bad enough with file sharing, but not every one knows how to do that, but now you just type in Redtube.com or Youporn.com or some other worthless tube site that is killing the industry.

The only thing that will save this industry...

1) A new form of porn such as virtual reality sex in the future with Sold DRM.

2) Gov. Legislation Banning all hardcore content that is not behind a credit card screen.

Then conversions would go back up.

Personally my conversions are good now due to the fact that 95% of my traffic is type-in traffic from my domains and I have a unique sales process. But back in 1998 I could just point a domain and make $2000 with no work at all. If what I said above happened my traffic that is converting good now would convert 4 times better over all!


PS: Someone always says, but then they will just move the severs. Not all will go off shore, many will just go down.

cashcows

OK I got it. This might work and be an alternative to Gov. Legislation.

Companies will be resistant at first but in the long run it will be better for the industry and not only that the Anti-Porn people will be happy to leave us alone, because we are self-regulating.

ALL not some but ALL adult sponsors would have to STOP paying anyone that is giving away or using hardcore content! PERIOD! No more free hardcore movies! No more hardcore images. Softcore would be ok.

No penetration, nothing hardcore at all! And it would require all major players to strictly comply. This only hardcore should be in the site or on the tours period.

Will this work YES. Will people sign up yes, just like they used to.

The only way to stop something like this is to cut off the money supply, the reason people are doing this is the first place.

hjnet

That'll not work, as long as there's not a reasonable financial motivation for each sponsor and content producer to comply. Otherwise there would be enough PaySites that will try to gain fresh affiliates by "allowing" them to use hardcore again...

hahmike

people have been saying this for a long time, and they're right. you're right.

but we all know that there are a lot of smacktards on this planet... the free porn situation, it'll get a lot worse before it gets better. surfers are pretty smart now too, the average joe cybercock knows how to use torrents or google advanced search. and no matter what, a lot of people are blind to reality, they're convinced that giving away more than the next guy is the way to success; they're just trying to grab traffic. plus there are people that don't give a fuck about money and just want to enjoy and share porn on forums and rapidshare and so on, but that's another thread another day...

when i give away a picture of a chick posing in her underwear, there's always some dumb shit that comes along and gives away a 40mb movie of her getting fucked up the ass. for some reason, these dumb fucks are convinced they're going to be the next thehun by just giving giving giving giving giving everything away. and so you can say they're devaluing the traffic. most of us know that a network of small niche sites and blogs can make more $ than a dozen huge mgp giving away hundreds of 1-2 minute clips, but that is too much work for a lot of people. and surfers that just want to rub one out to regular hardcore porn, there's a lot of them out there. so it's easier just to give give give and be blinded by that sextracker counter that says 100,000 visitors/day, and you can make money from that, but the point i'm making is that making $ still seems to be second place in a lot of people's minds.

well, if blank dvds were free and it cost nothing to mail them, these same assholes would be sending out thousands of full length dvds with a note saying "please buy dvds from me!"

and so i continue to find an exploit little niches... take the cockroach and frog dissection porn that was posted here yesterday. those guys are charging $50-60 PER MOVIE DOWNLOAD and that site is blowing the fuck up, while Mr generic hardcore mgp owner is wondering why the fuck he's grossing $60/day and can't sell any ad space...

cashcows

That's why I said ALL, did you red the post? It would have to be an indutry wide reform and they would have to have enough sense to realize that if they want to be in long term this is what needs to be done and doing business as usual is the end of this business in the coming years.

So as I described it it would work. Getting people to do it is another thing.

cashcows

Your Kidding right?

Shaze

there's always gonna be one asshole who will fuck things up.....and of course many will start to follow trying to out-do that one asshole so it's a losing battle.

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hahmike

right on. and it usually starts with the kind of people that go crazy for these shitty contests on gfy, the usually-underage-or-just-plain-fucking-stupid contest and sig whores... or at least, the few of them that actually make sites. people giving away all this free shit? i'm willing to bankroll of team of crackhead negro musclemen to fly around the world and fuck them all in the ass. i'd be willing to put THOSE movies up for free. at least, my team would never be out of work, it's like trying to hold back the tide.

to all you clowns who want to be the next thehun - maybe you should stay in school, study law, and get into politics. then you can fuck all our shit up for real and make bank at the same time.

skrinkladoo

In my humble opinion its not controllable, and unity will not occur. If you had a billion dollars, and hired a million people to stand with you - you would lose. Find a way to generate revenue in the evolving market - or take a break.

The industry has chosen to cannibalize itself. Porn will not stop. Those who can adapt will, those who cant will help us to lower saturation.

The internet porn bubble ... that has a ring to it.

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wjxxx

The real problem is 10 biggest illegal tube sites - Youporn, Redtube, Pornhub etc. Other illegal tubes use their embedded videos. What is needed to end this whole fiasco? Only one content owner with balls who will sue and win the case.


But as far I know adult industry is low hanging fruit ...

hjnet

I know what you mean, but exactly the "Getting people to do it is another thing" is the core problem that need's to be solved. As long as we don't find a realistic way to get ALL people in this business to pull in the same direction it'll not work out

hjnet

Bump for a good thread

kane

Yep. You can see the progression.

Someone started a link site and linked to warning pages. It worked and got traffic.

Then someone decided to link right to galleries and bypass the warning pages. The TGP was born and it got even more traffic.

Then someone decided to link right to movie gallery pages. The MGP was born and it got still more traffic yet.

So someone decided they wouldn't link to anything. They would just serve it up right there for people to watch and the tube site was born. And it got even more traffic

Then someone decided they would take the tubes site and build one that offered full length movies, movies taken right from member's areas of sites and would allow people to upload their movies if they wanted. And the big tube site was born and it became a huge traffic source.

People have been racing to see who can offer the most porn with the least advertising for a while now. It won't stop until either one of these companies is successfully sued and has to pay out a huge settlement for stealing content or until the number of freeloads gets so huge they can no longer afford to pay the bandwidth on the site and they are forced to scale back.

hjnet

Exactly, but I hope we can find a workaround

hjnet

Business Threads seem to have a hard time on GFY....

RogerV

They need to understand it will make them alot more money if we start removing the hardcore from free sites. I bet people will freak out since they cant get it anymore.

RogerV

this is why I started GetRichInPorn which is doing well. I just wish the industry was smart enough to clean up the hardcore free porn so surfers are forced to pay

brassmonkey

run for the hills!!

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RogerV

because most in the biz dont really care about the industry in a whole they just want to make what they can now. even if its pennies to what we could all make

Mutt

you're a mentally deranged clown - are you so fucking out of touch with reality that you think anybody with a dollar to brand or market any product wants anything to do with the pornography business?

oh wait - phone's ringing - well what the fuck do I know - that was Abercrombie and Fitch, they want to know if they can do a clothing deal for my next two solo sites.

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gideongallery

your so right it not like tgp/mgp/ tube sites arn't spending thousands of dollars buying traffic from choker.


it not like any of them could benefit from branding their services using branding bugs

remeber web dreams on showcase.ca could get a single advertiser for that show, they had to cancel it after the first season because there was no way they could make enough money to pay the liciencing fees.


oh wait both those statements are completely wrong.

arguing that there is absolutely no product placement/advertising money available because abercrombie and Fitch does want to advertise on porn videoes is the equivalent to saying that kiddie cartoons can't survive because penis pills don't want to advertise on scooby doo.

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raymor

Yeah you've been saying tat for years and I've been reading posts
to that affect for twelve years, yet every year the porn business gets
bigger and bigger.

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hjnet

It would make everybody a lot more money in the long run if only Softcore content would be Free, but as long as it would make a single person more short term to spread hardcore content something like that will not happen.

So an Adult Union would only work if there's a way to make it more profitable for everybody to follow the Union rules than to break them.

gideongallery

and that is the difference between adam smith and john nash

the point is adam smith is wrong, doing what is in your best interests does not bring the best results. Nash was right doing what is in your best interest given what other people do gets the optimum results.

This means optimum result in the move to giving more and more content away for free, so unless you can figuire out how to get people to pay with other things instead of money

Attention for example your screwed.

look up GERD LEONHARD for more information about this

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DamageX

Actually, the two aren't mutually exclusive. Adam Smith never said you do what's best for you while disregarding other's actions, he simply said you do what's best for you.

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gideongallery

actually he did adam smith theory of the invisible hand said that if everyone did what was best for themselves then the force of market, and people picking the best solution would result in optimum results being accomplished.

Nash determined cases where that was not true and extended the principle to be do what is best for you GIVEN what everyone else was doing.

The current arguement is a Nashian vs Smithian debate

People here are talking about how if everyone were to stop giving away free porn then everyone would make money, if smith was right that is exactly what would happen. because the optimum result (make more money) would cause everyone to make as much as possible.

The Nash equlibrium predicts what is actually happening.

Under that equlibrium giving away as much porn as possible is the best solution
because if everyone else keeps to only soft core you take a bigger share of the surfer traffic and therefore get more money

if everyone gives away the hardcore porn, then by giving away the same you compete on equal footing (even though every sale is a lot harder)

The funny part is the best solution is to
1. setup up your own DCMA complient tube site
2. post threads like this in the hopes of convince as many suckers to setup "legal" /sponsor friendly tube sites so you can leach as much traffic away from them.

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hjnet

Well comparing our actual situation to game theory is for sure quite interesting, and I agree that under actual business rules (none) the easiest and most profitable way to make money is by giving away more for free than anybody else.

BUT we MIGHT able to change the rules, and that's the point where an Adult Union would come in handy....

gideongallery

all i am saying is that your attempt to "change the rules" is the incredible difficult up hill battle against the "invisible hand".

so far not one solution that has attempted to make such a battle has won in the long run.

Maybe you will be the first

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CrkMStanz

I think the problem is there are 2 shark types in the water

1) Content producers, who are experiencing massive theft
2) Traffic brokers, who are experiencing massive amounts of free product to give away to generate 'their' product (raw traffic)

there will never be a truce without government regulation and enforcement

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gideongallery

sure there will
when content becomes a traffic source (branding bugs, process monitization, product placement)
under that circumstance content will be given away for free, and traffic buyers will pay for it because it generates more traffic for them.

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DamageX

It's all semantics. Nash's theory simply EXPLICITLY says take into account everyone else's actions, while Smith's doesn't.

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Don Pueblo

win what case?

the case that they're not technically doing anything illegal by operating in a safe harbour loophole of user submitted content?

fuck some of you people need to read the dmca.

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BlingDaddy

I second with a superwise..... Came across yet another Tube site today and was like... why would anyone pay a dime? It's all right here...

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CrkMStanz

OK then, lets say we reach your level of equilibrium... (and IMO - in your scenario, content producers become your bitch (your = advertisers/traffic brokers))

what product do you sell to this 'traffic' - mainstream products? they don't neeed adult membership sites because now its truly ALL for free.

then you get the mainstream media asking why they can't use explicit sexual imagry in their medium (TV, Movies, print, all maintream advertising agencies... etc) to advertise their products. After all, if its allowed on the internet and available to all ages, why should they be penalized.

that should be a helluva debate at all levels of all governments... because in the end the government controls the media - and then they shall deem it is time to control the all powerful web

then you shall weep

careful what you wish for

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kane

The one potential problem with both Nash and Smith is that often people don't know what is best for them. It very well may be that giving away only softcore stuff and stopping all free hardcore porn is the best scenario and would result in increased income for everyone. The trouble is that much of this business is run by part time people or people who do this as a side job. Even those that do it full time will often feel like they are doing well enough to justify their actions.

So if someone is making 40K a year giving away hardcore stuff they may feel like that is good enough and while the idea of stopping that and only giving away softcore could make them more money it would require a sea change on their part and it is a risk they are not willing to take. Or simply it is more work than they are willing to put in.

So Smith could be wrong because people might understand that they could be doing better with only softcore content, but are not willing to change what has worked so far. And Nash could be wrong because the industry as a whole may understand what they are doing (giving away free hardcore porn) could be costing them money and could be working against their future ability to earn money, but it works now and everyone else is doing it so they don't change.

It seems neither Smith nor Nash take into consideration business sense or laziness. Changing the way people think and their expectations (meaning reconditioning the public to realize they can't get free hardcore porn) is difficult. Just giving them the porn and cashing in on the ones that are willing to spend is a lot easier even if it is ultimately not a profitable.

gideongallery

not true, paysites will move to a live component, membership will be the only way to participate in that live component. So chat, voting (see american idol)

Selling benefits that increase your access (private tracker= increased speed, higher priority)

and of course products that help solve the problems created by having so much free content (hard drives, media centers/extenders, sex toys that expand the benefit of the content)


but it is already happening, documentary style tv shows are targeting the adult community
shows like satisfactions show titties etc. The move is already happening. The fundumental difference is that broadcast tv are run over the public air ways. They are granted that space for free.

The spector fo government control for the internet is a red herring because you have to wonder which government gets control. And do they have a right since it is not public bandwidth. The internet is like subscriber cable, the premium channels like hbo and showcase. money will move from one to the other.

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