When Industry Experts Talk... People should listen. Excerpts from Internext.

[OMG Jim]

When it is time to look to the future who better to tell us than those that have been involved in this industry for so long that they've probably seen everything... twice. So when these respected leaders in adult talk about the future of this industry and most importantly about the future of your business within the industry, you may want to take a minute to listen.

Here are some excerpts from "The Future of Business" seminar at Internext Vegas.

Heavy Hitters Address Internext Crowd
Leaders in the adult industry discussed and debated the present and future.

By: Sherri L. Shaulis

LAS VEGAS - Panelists for "The Future of the Business" during Monday's seminars at Internext Las Vegas couldn't stress enough that all sectors of the adult industry need to do some serious analyzing if they want to continue.

"If you want to be left by the side of the road, then just keep doing what you're doing," said Tony Morgan, CEO of National Net.

His fellow panelists - Tim Valenti, CEO and co-founder of NakedSword; Steve "Lightspeed" Jones of Lightspeed Media; Steve Orenstein, founder of Wicked Pictures; and David Joseph, the president of Red Light District - touched on a number of subjects throughout the hour, including producing a quality product at a quality price, how to survive the current economic situation and working together to defeat common enemies.

With the economy struggling, all panelists expressed surprise that more companies were not out of the adult business. Each predicted that future headlines regarding the business will be for companies exiting adult or consolidating with one another.

But it's not just the economy that will force change, they agreed. As the industry moves forward, particularly the online segment, existing business models will change. Morgan noted that several years ago he predicted that the affiliate model as it is would change, and Lightspeed pointed out that specific types of programs are surviving.

"Just look at the sponsors these days," he said. "Dating and chat sites are doing very well."

But rather than encourage everyone to give up hope, several panelists offered some survival tips and advice.

Orenstein stressed that companies - no matter what area of the adult industry they are involved in - will make it through if they produce a quality product, while others suggested looking at cutting expenses where possible, maintaining control of the product they produce and maintaining control of how that product is delivered. Valenti also said there were some positive aspects to having to evaluate the way you do business.

"I think this is the best time in the world that you can look at how to grow your business," he said. "Usually we are so busy with all the other things that we never have time to sit and examine things."

Now, he said, business owners can slow down and look at what they currently offer and decide what direction they want to move in the future.

The panelists also agreed that now might be the time for companies that have traditionally been competitors to look at ways to work together on things like changing the current Digital Media Copyright Act or learning how to protect content.

Article from AVN - http://avn.com/internet/articles/34107.html

[96ukssob]

Im heated that i missed this show. I was in a meeting a lost track of time, but thanks for the notes.

One thing they should of touched on is affiliates. ive noticed over the past few years a lot of these seminars are more leaning towards program owners and complete noobs. i push sites as an affiliate, and with the state of the industry, not looking to invest into a membership site yet.

instead, it would be cool to see some new CMS systems, tools, etc. even tools that bigger programs have for affiliates. i know you guys send out emails, but i get 100 of them a week, and i dont have time to read them all.

I know im not alone in this, and when i see my sales for [any sponsor] starting to slip, i push towards dating and cam sites and that leaves programs missing out on sales.

what i would like to see is a couple of companies and experts (real experts, not some one who was hired by a program to talk) and show affiliates what is happening with trends and what they are doing to maintain sales through blogs, tube sites, tgps, etc.

just my

[Big Red Machine]

Nice Thread Jim

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

"Orenstein stressed that companies - no matter what area of the adult industry they are involved in - will make it through if they produce a quality product, while others suggested looking at cutting expenses where possible, maintaining control of the product they produce and maintaining control of how that product is delivered. Valenti also said there were some positive aspects to having to evaluate the way you do business."


So basically I should raise my prices?

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

"Now, he said, business owners can slow down and look at what they currently offer and decide what direction they want to move in the future."

So now I can work less and charge more?

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

"If you want to be left by the side of the road, then just keep doing what you're doing," said Tony Morgan, CEO of National Net."

Yeah I know man... I can't wait for a new version of Photoshop.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

"But it's not just the economy that will force change, they agreed. As the industry moves forward, particularly the online segment, existing business models will change."

Yeah we all went from subscriptions models to blatantly giving it all away fro free. I'd call that one hell of a fucking change.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

"The panelists also agreed that now might be the time for companies that have traditionally been competitors to look at ways to work together on things like changing the current Digital Media Copyright Act or learning how to protect content."

OH yeah they worked together awright. Ya see that cross sale shit that went down? WOoooo! What a gusher! I do not think a fraud scam such as these have been in adult since over charging peoples phone bills with cheap ass dialer mal ware...

[TheSenator]

My intel i7 920 overclocked to 3.4Ghz will arrive on the 21st. I will be more productive since I encode videos for my blog.

Plus, my traffic goal for 2008 was 40k unique a day to my blog, I surpassed it to 58k unique a day. My goal for 2009 is 75k unique. I am doing this all with my own traffic and no skimming.

My traffic empire is growing.

[DWB]

While I always listen to my peers and people more successful than myself, I did feel that during all the seminars there was one factor that was left out during all the dribble about quality, prices, piracy, blah, blah, blah... and that is, at the end of the day it's just a guy in a dark room with his cock in his hand. This is what I call the Human Factor.

Now with that in mind, think about yourself for a minute. What do you need to get off? Do you care what brand you are using to get off? Do you care how big or little the image or video is? Do you care if it's in HD or not? Or do you just want to find that ONE GIRL or that ONE FANTASY that gets you off, and then you get off as quickly as possible? The latter is me.

I don't care about format, size, HD, quality, brand, name, URL or price. When I find that ONE GIRL or ONE FANTASY that I want to beat off to, everything else falls to the side. That means if it's on a blog, tube, torrent, TGP or a super huge tour image over at Bang Bros, whatever it takes and it doesn't take much. However I do want it as quickly as possible with no hassles. I don't want to wait on ANYTHING before I beat off. I want to cum now!

This simple human factor ALWAYS gets left out of every discussion and I believe too many business models lose track of this. Too many forget that ALL OF THIS is just for some dude beating off in his room, many while their wives, girlfriends or kids are sleeping or not at home.

[OMG Jim]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

So basically I should raise my prices?

I believe that pricing is one of the toughest things to determine in this industry. Logic would have it that the sites with better quality content could and should charge a higher price but unlike most other industries this does not seem to be the case in adult.

Here is an article I came across relating to pricing.
http://www.mainstreamwebmasters.com/article1898.html

I will be running a thread next week with many predictions for 2009 and based on what I have seen, heard and read I believe that coming up with as many nice micro-niched/fetish based websites as possible catering to a customer that is willing to pay for their favorite diversion is the way things will head in the paysite sector of our industry.

As far as the price point I believe that monthly paysite subscription prices will need to be tested to see if those looking for the harder to find content are willing to pay more or if in fact the whole paysite model will have to adjust to below the $20 per month price point.
_

[tony286]

Dropping prices will be one of biggest mistakes people can make.Having a fair price and not another $100 in surprise pricing is the key.

[germ]

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

While I always listen to my peers and people more successful than myself, I did feel that during all the seminars there was one factor that was left out during all the dribble about quality, prices, piracy, blah, blah, blah... and that is, at the end of the day it's just a guy in a dark room with his cock in his hand. This is what I call the Human Factor.

Now with that in mind, think about yourself for a minute. What do you need to get off? Do you care what brand you are using to get off? Do you care how big or little the image or video is? Do you care if it's in HD or not? Or do you just want to find that ONE GIRL or that ONE FANTASY that gets you off, and then you get off as quickly as possible? The latter is me.

I don't care about format, size, HD, quality, brand, name, URL or price. When I find that ONE GIRL or ONE FANTASY that I want to beat off to, everything else falls to the side. That means if it's on a blog, tube, torrent, TGP or a super huge tour image over at Bang Bros, whatever it takes and it doesn't take much. However I do want it as quickly as possible with no hassles. I don't want to wait on ANYTHING before I beat off. I want to cum now!

This simple human factor ALWAYS gets left out of every discussion and I believe too many business models lose track of this. Too many forget that ALL OF THIS is just for some dude beating off in his room, many while their wives, girlfriends or kids are sleeping or not at home.

That's worth reading twice.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

While I always listen to my peers and people more successful than myself, I did feel that during all the seminars there was one factor that was left out during all the dribble about quality, prices, piracy, blah, blah, blah... and that is, at the end of the day it's just a guy in a dark room with his cock in his hand. This is what I call the Human Factor.

Now with that in mind, think about yourself for a minute. What do you need to get off? Do you care what brand you are using to get off? Do you care how big or little the image or video is? Do you care if it's in HD or not? Or do you just want to find that ONE GIRL or that ONE FANTASY that gets you off, and then you get off as quickly as possible? The latter is me.

I don't care about format, size, HD, quality, brand, name, URL or price. When I find that ONE GIRL or ONE FANTASY that I want to beat off to, everything else falls to the side. That means if it's on a blog, tube, torrent, TGP or a super huge tour image over at Bang Bros, whatever it takes and it doesn't take much. However I do want it as quickly as possible with no hassles. I don't want to wait on ANYTHING before I beat off. I want to cum now!

This simple human factor ALWAYS gets left out of every discussion and I believe too many business models lose track of this. Too many forget that ALL OF THIS is just for some dude beating off in his room, many while their wives, girlfriends or kids are sleeping or not at home.

I read it again and you are so right.

[Rangermoore]

Good Info,,Thanks

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by AlmightyJim

I believe that pricing is one of the toughest things to determine in this industry. Logic would have it that the sites with better quality content could and should charge a higher price but unlike most other industries this does not seem to be the case in adult.

Here is an article I came across relating to pricing.
http://www.mainstreamwebmasters.com/article1898.html

I will be running a thread next week with many predictions for 2009 and based on what I have seen, heard and read I believe that coming up with as many nice micro-niched/fetish based websites as possible catering to a customer that is willing to pay for their favorite diversion is the way things will head in the paysite sector of our industry.

As far as the price point I believe that monthly paysite subscription prices will need to be tested to see if those looking for the harder to find content are willing to pay more or if in fact the whole paysite model will have to adjust to below the $20 per month price point.
_

Well...

For sure I do not think any site is worth 20 bucks a month. There is not a single website in the fucking world worth 20 dollars a month. The only alternative is Free.

Nah wait I am going to halt my sarcasm and Irony for one minute. Exactly 1 minute here. SO listen in folks.

NO shitting or joking.

Thinking sites should charge less than $20.00 as preposterous is not the methodology I would go with. I would prescribe sites charge a monthly fee of 5 dollars per month for starters as the new industry standard. No I am not talking 5 bucks a month and then upgrade them deviously. 5 bucks a month no bullshit, no cross no crap no upsell.

Then we can sit back and measure the true worth of quality.
The only way to defeat free is to measure it. As Dick Cheney once said...
"There should be limits on freedom." and thats true in my book but first it must be measured. After all we are now officially in the Free Porn Age. I declared that earlier this afternoon.

It seems these days webmasters have no choice but to trust themselves, build there traffic. Some may elect to cut out affiliates and make 5 bucks per member by thier own efforts and I can see that as a conclusive future trend.

[TheDoc]

I want to poll the panel.... how many of you have done something 'new' in the last two years? Not a new paysite, that isn't new. Not buying a company, that isn't new, not opening a tube, that isn't new either.

I mean new, totally new way to market, totally new way to interact with customers, a totally new way to run your business that doesn't copy what ever else is doing?

Think about it... think long and hard.. if today you are doing what you did 5-10 years ago chances are, you are hurting like hell today. Not everyone is hurting, the opportunities have NEVER been larger in our business...... and that's a fact.

Best start thinking....

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

I want to poll the panel.... how many of you have done something 'new' in the last two years? Not a new paysite, that isn't new. Not buying a company, that isn't new, not opening a tube, that isn't new either.

I mean new, totally new way to market, totally new way to interact with customers, a totally new way to run your business that doesn't copy what ever else is doing?

Think about it... think long and hard.. if today you are doing what you did 5-10 years ago chances are, you are hurting like hell today. Not everyone is hurting, the opportunities have NEVER been larger in our business...... and that's a fact.

Best start thinking....

All I know is that one day people are going to look back and joke about those $100 per member days and how great they were

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

All I know is that one day people are going to look back and joke about those $100 per member days and how great they were

A members value for as long as I can remember, for the site alone is always been $70-$100. Add in exits, upsells, emails, and volume from bigger payouts which produces more type-ins, and you get profit.

The days of big pps are far far far from gone. Maybe some of these $100 guys, but $50 or $75 was possible before all the fraud kicked in, and nothing has changed since then.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by thedoc

a members value for as long as i can remember, for the site alone is always been $70-$100. Add in exits, upsells, emails, and volume from bigger payouts which produces more type-ins, and you get profit.

The days of big pps are far far far from gone. Maybe some of these $100 guys, but $50 or $75 was possible before all the fraud kicked in, and nothing has changed since then.

no dude, its dead already, the industry just does not know it yet.

[OMG Jim]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

I want to poll the panel.... how many of you have done something 'new' in the last two years?
I mean new, totally new way to market, totally new way to interact with customers, a totally new way to run your business that doesn't copy what ever else is doing?
Not everyone is hurting, the opportunities have NEVER been larger in our business...... and that's a fact. Best start thinking....

For those that have not figured it out yet it is ultimately how you will handle "The Customer" that will dictate your degree of success in the future.

Call it Social Media Marketing or a Higher Level of Interactivity or whatever the hell you want but the bottom line is "If you want to keep a customer then you better treat them exactly how YOU would want to be treated." So if you wouldn't spend money for the product you are trying to sell then why in the world do you think they would?

[marketsmart]

i get my advice my jon clark and pussyserver, so i think i will be just fine thank you...

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

no dude, its dead already, the industry just does not know it yet.

Ever seen a 20 million dollar revshare company? Or 50, or 100 million? Of course, good reason for that too. PPS programs fucking kill revshare programs in net profit.

I can name several 100 join a day revshare programs and several 100 join a day pps programs, so the pps isn't adding volume over the other. But the net profits, pfft... not even the same ball park, the pps programs are all easily 10x larger.

$50pps is a drop in the hat for a program that has it together.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Ever seen a 20 million dollar revshare company? Or 50, or 100 million? Of course, good reason for that too. PPS programs fucking kill revshare programs in net profit.

I can name several 100 join a day revshare programs and several 100 join a day pps programs, so the pps isn't adding volume over the other. But the net profits, pfft... not even the same ball park, the pps programs are all easily 10x larger.

$50pps is a drop in the hat for a program that has it together.

And for everyone that you name I can name as one that shaves and cheats either the affiliate or the surfer or both. It's dirty business and impractical.

And tell ya what and in all confidence...
There is not a single 20 Million dollar a year profit company in porn now. There was sure way back in the smokey times long forgotten but since then those guys have gone off in laughter to the sunset toting margaritas.

LOL! If there was even a single one we all would be in better shoes.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by AlmightyJim

For those that have not figured it out yet it is ultimately how you will handle "The Customer" that will dictate your degree of success in the future.

Call it Social Media Marketing or a Higher Level of Interactivity or whatever the hell you want but the bottom line is "If you want to keep a customer then you better treat them exactly how YOU would want to be treated." So if you wouldn't spend money for the product you are trying to sell then why in the world do you think they would?

Correct you are, very correct.. And, just for the topic Social media = news
Social Marketing = what we need. Like, twitter and facebook aren't really media sites.. why I say that.

I have an article coming up on it so I'm not going into a huge amount of details on it here. But in comes down to, you need to go find your fan base, build it, so they can promote you, and you can interact with them..

The days of tossing up crap and making millions is gone... problem is that trash did create more global porn traffic. But since trash is going and kick ass is in, interaction is going to be the life blood of us all!

It already is for the rest of the Internet... we are just a few years behind.

[Iron Fist]

"and maintaining control of how that product is delivered."

Yeah, not really a big fan of that statement there, in other words... the affiliates can go fuck themselves, if i'm reading that correctly.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

And for everyone that you name I can name as one that shaves and cheats either the affiliate or the surfer or both. It's dirty business and impractical.

And tell ya what and in all confidence...
There is not a single 20 Million dollar a year profit company in porn now. There was sure way back in the smokey times long forgotten but since then those guys have gone off in laughter to the sunset toting margaritas.

LOL! If there was even a single one we all would be in better shoes.

You know, I have seen the admin epoch/netbilling/ccbill stats for programs. And when 1 sale is off from the backend to the frontend, they go fucking nuts. So you best tell topbucks, duke, wicked, you know I'm not even going to list it.. Huge amounts of programs doing pps don't need to shave or do anything shady to make a killing.

You really don't think we have 20 million a year profit porn companies? Are you on crack? So none of the 50-100+ million a year companies make 20m net? Hahaha..

Anyway... yeah, the top 5 that you can name are all 50m+ year companies.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

You know, I have seen the admin epoch/netbilling/ccbill stats for programs. And when 1 sale is off from the backend to the frontend, they go fucking nuts. So you best tell topbucks, duke, wicked, you know I'm not even going to list it.. Huge amounts of programs doing pps don't need to shave or do anything shady to make a killing.

You really don't think we have 20 million a year profit porn companies? Are you on crack? So none of the 50-100+ million a year companies make 20m net? Hahaha..

Anyway... yeah, the top 5 that you can name are all 50m+ year companies.

Pass me some of what you are drinking.

There was a day when LSD was considered a hard drug, I didnt know it was a normal additive to what ever some of the people in the industry drinks these days.

Sure processors make a pretty good buck...
NO doubts there. They might be the only winners though.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

Pass me some of what you are drinking.

There was a day when LSD was considered a hard drug, I didnt know it was a normal additive to what ever some of the people in the industry drinks these days.

Sure processors make a pretty good buck...
NO doubts there. They might be the only winners though.

Look, not to bust your balls but you're a designer. You haven't ever sat down with a processor and talked about correcting problems, I have.. I have done work with them, the epoch web backend is mine. You didn't get brought in to teach companies how to setup trial upgrades 6-8 years ago, I was. You aren't a whale, I am.. You haven't owned a multi million dollar program and several others, I have.

Not to bust your balls.. but your understanding and knowledge around this is about, zero.

[TyroneGoldberg]

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

While I always listen to my peers and people more successful than myself, I did feel that during all the seminars there was one factor that was left out during all the dribble about quality, prices, piracy, blah, blah, blah... and that is, at the end of the day it's just a guy in a dark room with his cock in his hand. This is what I call the Human Factor.

Now with that in mind, think about yourself for a minute. What do you need to get off? Do you care what brand you are using to get off? Do you care how big or little the image or video is? Do you care if it's in HD or not? Or do you just want to find that ONE GIRL or that ONE FANTASY that gets you off, and then you get off as quickly as possible? The latter is me.

I don't care about format, size, HD, quality, brand, name, URL or price. When I find that ONE GIRL or ONE FANTASY that I want to beat off to, everything else falls to the side. That means if it's on a blog, tube, torrent, TGP or a super huge tour image over at Bang Bros, whatever it takes and it doesn't take much. However I do want it as quickly as possible with no hassles. I don't want to wait on ANYTHING before I beat off. I want to cum now!

This simple human factor ALWAYS gets left out of every discussion and I believe too many business models lose track of this. Too many forget that ALL OF THIS is just for some dude beating off in his room, many while their wives, girlfriends or kids are sleeping or not at home.

case closed. thread locked.

after this post what's left to be said

[tony286]

Originally Posted by AlmightyJim

For those that have not figured it out yet it is ultimately how you will handle "The Customer" that will dictate your degree of success in the future.

Call it Social Media Marketing or a Higher Level of Interactivity or whatever the hell you want but the bottom line is "If you want to keep a customer then you better treat them exactly how YOU would want to be treated." So if you wouldn't spend money for the product you are trying to sell then why in the world do you think they would?

I am grateful for my Mercedes training because they drilled into our heads without the customer we are nothing. I followed that with my own business.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Actually...
I did work on trial upgrades as well. It was shit, I knew it was shit when I did it, I knew it was a shitty thing to do to surfers to. I know what it was like to leave work feeling like shit knowing the company I worked for was about to embark on yet another bon fire that will devalue the industry as a whole.

I think you do not know who you are talking to.
Sure maybe you got more money than I do, but I seriously doubt you have an ounce of my experience.

You were not even around when Xpics bought a host company I helped build up, you didnt see everyone happy with the 10 million dollar deal like I did. Nor did you witness the collapse of the Merchant accounts that burned faster than jews in a furnace. They got themselves Mercedes while I held the wrench on the side of Highway 101 trying to fix my fucking Toyota.

I have helped create the very first click programs the internet ever saw in either 1 or 2 position. Cybererotica will tell you they were the first and they might have been but rest assured I was in it I was there, I seen this industry birth and now I am seeing it's death.

I've made people like you. You make me sick.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

Actually...
I did work on trial upgrades as well. It was shit, I knew it was shit when I did it, I knew it was a shitty thing to do to surfers to. I know what it was like to leave work feeling like shit knowing the company I worked for was about to embark on yet another bon fire that will devalue the industry as a whole.

I think you do not know who you are talking to.
Sure maybe you got more money than I do, but I seriously doubt you have an ounce of my experience.

You were not even around when Xpics bought a host company I helped build up, you didnt see everyone happy with the 10 million dollar deal like I did. Nor did you witness the collapse of the Merchant accounts that burned faster than jews in a furnace. They got themselves Mercedes while I held the wrench on the side of Highway 101 trying to fix my fucking Toyota.

I've made people like you. You make me sick.

Hahahahahaha... Dude, what?
I was here before Xpics son...

You designed for xpics, and I owned a design school that taught people have to draft and design. Yeah, and I had my hosting company too... a couple of them. Experience as you say it... photoshop gives me copies for free.. my expereince is vastly past yours when it comes to design.. but design doesn't make money...

I had a DMR account... wow, I'm bad ass old school. I lost millions with Ibill.. I got suckered in too.

Oh.. Does it make a shit that my first paysite was two years before xpics came online? Or that I was prob doing 300 sales to a single site daily and turned them down for pre paid offers from xpics and went to clubluv instead? Or that my partner was a whale from clubluv, xpics, ce, cen, maxcash, ect on up the chain?

"I think you do not know who you are talking to." - You clearly have no idea who I am.

And as for trial upgrades.. I can't recall how many years I have had them and no complaints. When you tell a person the trial is limited, they understand it. It doesn't confuse them or piss them off.. it's not an issue for visa, or cb's, refunds or even complaints. I guess that really shows how little knowledge you have on the subject.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Hahahahahaha... Dude, what?
I was here before Xpics son...

You designed for xpics, and I owned a design school that taught people have to draft and design. Yeah, and I had my hosting company too... a couple of them. Experience as you say it... photoshop gives me copies for free.. my expereince is vastly past yours when it comes to design.. but design doesn't make money...

I had a DMR account... wow, I'm bad ass old school. I lost millions with Ibill.. I got suckered in too.

Oh.. Does it make a shit that my first paysite was two years before xpics came online? Or that I was prob doing 300 sales to a single site daily and turned them down for pre paid offers from xpics and went to clubluv instead? Or that my partner was a whale from clubluv, xpics, ce, cen, maxcash, ect on up the chain?

"I think you do not know who you are talking to." - You clearly have no idea who I am.

And as for trial upgrades.. I can't recall how many years I have had them and no complaints. When you tell a person the trial is limited, they understand it. It doesn't confuse them or piss them off.. it's not an issue for visa, or cb's, refunds or even complaints. I guess that really shows how little knowledge you have on the subject.

SO you gonna just sit there and lie to these kids on how great this industry is and how wealthy they can get in it? Fact is, most people or rather me do not give a fuck about any company and what they got, I care about the shit I got, I can give to fucks what someone else makes it won't help my ass. Never has, never will.

Anyways You are one hell of a guy trying to spin a Rosy picture but I am not buying it...
I have my doubts about these so called 20 Million Dollar companies you want to bring into this topic because none of them have posted filings stating otherwise.

Congrats on being a vet then. It's good to know that the best you can do now is offer some silly blog in your sig and fight with simpleton nobodies like me while counting your millions.

Maybe I am missing some joke and you are being sarcastic?

[Va2k]

Wow the ALL MIGHTY has spoken and now we must bend over and kiss some major ass!!!

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Hahahahahaha... Dude, what?
I was here before Xpics son...

You designed for xpics, and I owned a design school that taught people have to draft and design. Yeah, and I had my hosting company too... a couple of them. Experience as you say it... photoshop gives me copies for free.. my expereince is vastly past yours when it comes to design.. but design doesn't make money...

I had a DMR account... wow, I'm bad ass old school. I lost millions with Ibill.. I got suckered in too.

Oh.. Does it make a shit that my first paysite was two years before xpics came online? Or that I was prob doing 300 sales to a single site daily and turned them down for pre paid offers from xpics and went to clubluv instead? Or that my partner was a whale from clubluv, xpics, ce, cen, maxcash, ect on up the chain?

"I think you do not know who you are talking to." - You clearly have no idea who I am.

And as for trial upgrades.. I can't recall how many years I have had them and no complaints. When you tell a person the trial is limited, they understand it. It doesn't confuse them or piss them off.. it's not an issue for visa, or cb's, refunds or even complaints. I guess that really shows how little knowledge you have on the subject.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

SO you gonna just sit there and lie to these kids on how great this industry is and how wealthy they can get in it?

You are one hell of a guy...

Sorry I just do not believe it's a rosy picture these days and I have my doubts about these so called 20 Million Dollar companies you want to bring into this topic because none of them have posted filings stating otherwise.

Congrats on being a vet then. It's good to know that the best you can do now is offer some silly blog in your sig and fight with simpleton nobodies like me while counting your millions.

I help companies make more money, and I have helped a lot. The majority of my clients are growing, not slowing. They had down turns in 08, but they turned it back around. That's good business.

And as for me, I sold my programs, traffic, companies.. I consult for only a few now and am almost done with that fully. I want to run my blog(s) not all of which are adult.

So in short.. when I post and fuck around on gfy, boards, social sites, ect, it actually makes me money. I have fun all day and make money doing it. I earn dollars per visitor to my blog.. that's right, per visitor.. I have posted stats on it.

So for me.. I just laugh because I still own off paysites with no affiliates making sales that retain, that I don't care about piracy on or even notice. I own content/dvd's, and can't think of one possible way piracy cost me anything.

I can create a gay dvd 4 scenes for less than $8k, and before it goes on the paysite make my $8k back and profit.. Tell me this industry is hurting.. pfft.. this industry is stuck doing the same shit as it was 12 years ago... Like you.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Fungus

Wow the ALL MIGHTY has spoken and now we must bend over and kiss some major ass!!!

I was talking to AlienQ in reference to his attack of me.. It wasn't a standalone comment.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

LOL He said Club Love...

Yeah big bucks there.
Where is that guy now? OH man what was the name its on the tip of my tongue.

Where is Elkind? What was that? On the side of the road begging for an 8 ball now?

Oh god it hurts...

This thread just took a turn for the worse.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

LOL He said Club Love...

Yeah big bucks there.
Where is that guy now? OH man what was the name its on the tip of my tongue.

Where is Elkind? What was that? On the side of the road begging for an 8 ball now?

Oh god it hurts...

This thread just took a turn for the worse.

That was 10-12 years ago..seth W and JoeE was.. cen or whatever it was. Actually, I can't think of any of the real older programs that are still owned by the same people.

But you brought up xpics.. which is the kings of killing an empire.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

"The panelists also agreed that now might be the time for companies that have traditionally been competitors to look at ways to work together on things like changing the current Digital Media Copyright Act or learning how to protect content."

OH yeah they worked together awright. Ya see that cross sale shit that went down? WOoooo! What a gusher! I do not think a fraud scam such as these have been in adult since over charging peoples phone bills with cheap ass dialer mal ware...

[ultimatebbwdotcom]

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

While I always listen to my peers and people more successful than myself, I did feel that during all the seminars there was one factor that was left out during all the dribble about quality, prices, piracy, blah, blah, blah... and that is, at the end of the day it's just a guy in a dark room with his cock in his hand. This is what I call the Human Factor.

Now with that in mind, think about yourself for a minute. What do you need to get off? Do you care what brand you are using to get off? Do you care how big or little the image or video is? Do you care if it's in HD or not? Or do you just want to find that ONE GIRL or that ONE FANTASY that gets you off, and then you get off as quickly as possible? The latter is me.

I don't care about format, size, HD, quality, brand, name, URL or price. When I find that ONE GIRL or ONE FANTASY that I want to beat off to, everything else falls to the side. That means if it's on a blog, tube, torrent, TGP or a super huge tour image over at Bang Bros, whatever it takes and it doesn't take much. However I do want it as quickly as possible with no hassles. I don't want to wait on ANYTHING before I beat off. I want to cum now!

This simple human factor ALWAYS gets left out of every discussion and I believe too many business models lose track of this. Too many forget that ALL OF THIS is just for some dude beating off in his room, many while their wives, girlfriends or kids are sleeping or not at home.

Sums it up

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

That was 10-12 years ago..seth W and JoeE was.. cen or whatever it was. Actually, I can't think of any of the real older programs that are still owned by the same people.

But you brought up xpics.. which is the kings of killing an empire.

See, and now we can actually agree.
Talking about yesterdays so called kings have nothing in common with todays adult business. The only thing they left as a legacy to the hard working webmaster's these days is an industry on its death bed.

It's 2009 bro.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

I don't care about format, size, HD, quality, brand, name, URL or price. When I find that ONE GIRL or ONE FANTASY that I want to beat off to, everything else falls to the side. That means if it's on a blog, tube, torrent, TGP or a super huge tour image over at Bang Bros, whatever it takes and it doesn't take much. However I do want it as quickly as possible with no hassles. I don't want to wait on ANYTHING before I beat off. I want to cum now!

This simple human factor ALWAYS gets left out of every discussion and I believe too many business models lose track of this. Too many forget that ALL OF THIS is just for some dude beating off in his room, many while their wives, girlfriends or kids are sleeping or not at home.

So mother fucking true dat bitch!!!

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by AlmightyJim

I believe that pricing is one of the toughest things to determine in this industry. Logic would have it that the sites with better quality content could and should charge a higher price but unlike most other industries this does not seem to be the case in adult.

Price does not matter at all.

If you truly have what they want. They will pay whatever the price. Hence, Clips4Sale.

A membership to 100's or 1000's of clips for $29/39/59 a month. Or ONE clip for $10.99.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

Well...

For sure I do not think any site is worth 20 bucks a month. There is not a single website in the fucking world worth 20 dollars a month. The only alternative is Free.

Nah wait I am going to halt my sarcasm and Irony for one minute. Exactly 1 minute here. SO listen in folks.

NO shitting or joking.

Thinking sites should charge less than $20.00 as preposterous is not the methodology I would go with. I would prescribe sites charge a monthly fee of 5 dollars per month for starters as the new industry standard. No I am not talking 5 bucks a month and then upgrade them deviously. 5 bucks a month no bullshit, no cross no crap no upsell.

Then we can sit back and measure the true worth of quality.
The only way to defeat free is to measure it. As Dick Cheney once said...
"There should be limits on freedom." and thats true in my book but first it must be measured. After all we are now officially in the Free Porn Age. I declared that earlier this afternoon.

It seems these days webmasters have no choice but to trust themselves, build there traffic. Some may elect to cut out affiliates and make 5 bucks per member by thier own efforts and I can see that as a conclusive future trend.

nigga please... (not even worthy of a picture)

When I can shoot content for $5, I work for $5, then members will get it for $5.

Until then, they will pay market value. We are looking at allowing only one year for $29.95, and upselling additional years of material, or moving it to VOD. We have solid niche content, and members will pay it. I guaren-fucking-tee. When you have content people want. You do not have to give it away for a fucking dime.

There is no fucking way a member should be getting 1200+ scenes for $29.95 a month.

[Voodoo]

Here are some of my suggestions. I'm no "Expert", but I do at least have a good grasp on things...

Lower the cost of production. Stop paying talent these retarded rates. The cream of the crop will rise to the top in the aftermath, and those who are left will be in it for the long run, not for a quick buck, and will treat it more like a career than a way to fund their nose-candy habit... those girls can do it w/ privates anyhow. (I know, I know... The girls will bitch and probably not shoot for you. But, it's worth a shot, no?)

Also, don't shoot something unless you've clearly defined your target market. Shooting content just to shoot it for an update just won't fly anymore. Research different niches/markets before shooting. One of the biggest mistakes you can make right now is to assume that Porn Content will sell just because it's Porn. There is too much saturation for this mode of thinking anymore. Niches Get Riches! Once you have it... do not deviate from it.

Cut costs of marketing. High PPS is on it's way out IMHO. RevShare is coming back home. If you still have a PPS model and pay more than $30 to $35/ps... You may want to reconsider your business model. Retention just isn't there anymore, except for highly targeted niche sites, and you'll lose your shirt unless you do the naughty pre-checks... which should just die anyhow. Can you get any free advertising in exchange for something of equal value? Try getting as much free exposure before spending money. Buying traffic is great, but if that's all you do, you come to rely on spending $ for advertising and don't end up spending any time on generating it yourself. Once you exhaust all possible avenues of FREE marketing, THEN buy more! I know it's not the easiest to do, but it's definitely cheaper!

Track EVERYTHING. Get to KNOW your customers and get their feedback. Use this data to help improve your business and content. Don't just expect people to like what you give them anymore. Find out exactly what they want and give it to them. Who are your top 10 girls? Do you try a new girl out and get feedback, before shooting the hell out of her? If you buy content, do you ask your members what they want before making a purchase, or do you just buy in bulk and go for the Wal-Mart approach?

Refine your business models. Redesign your path to cash (unless you are doing well), and try to fine tune it. Cut out the fluff as much as possible. Basically, virtually restart from ground 0 and rework everything from the ground up. If it makes sense on paper, then try it out on a small scale and track everything. If it seems to work, try it bigger, and so on. Basically, find your own path... Don't follow others anymore and innovate yourself. Reinvent old models, or come up with new ones. Look at everything with new eyes.

Come up with new strategies for generating inhouse traffic. Again, innovate. Leave no stone unturned.

Work closer with your affiliates. Get to know them as well. Most likely you have a ton of affiliates who signed up and never promoted you. How many of you know WHY they never promoted you? Is there something you can do to help get them going?

I don't necessarily suggest lowering your prices, but maybe there are other ways to put out "Cheaper" solutions for your potential members? Maybe $19.99 to $39.99 is just too much for a 4 minute yank for them? Give them other options. Try to cover different price points, without devaluing your existing content. Maybe a $2.99 solution (Not a trial w/ an auto-upgrade, but something else?), maybe a $4.99, $8.99, $12.99? I don't know, but definitely look at doing other pricing options.

Just some suggestions and things to think about. Maybe it will help some of you. Maybe it won't... either way, if someone gets something from this, it was worth the post.