Can Obama Save us? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

notime · 02-05-2009, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync

Stop bailouts. Let the banks fail. Let people lose their homes. Flush the malinvestment back out of the system so things can get back to normal. It will be hell for a lot of people for around 2 years or so. Maybe less. Will people be able to get jobs? Sure, but probably not the kind of jobs they want. Then after 18 to 24 months things will pick up again and the country will be healthy again. The current route is just going to lead to 10 years of hell.

I wrote exactly what I would do in another thread a few days ago.

The theory I get, what if it doesn't work ? Would we return to the stone ages ?

Currencies being based on gold I get also, but all the legalising hemp stuff I don't see as a world saviour plan since it's not really significant to the world.

Ethersync · 02-05-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notime

The theory I get, what if it doesn't work ? Would we return to the stone ages ?

Currencies being based on gold I get also, but all the legalising hemp stuff I don't see as a world saviour plan since it's not really significant to the world.

What I propose has no risk of sending us back to the stone age. It's based on simple mathematics. The US government and people are drowning in debt. Money is debt. Printing more money is generating more debt. This is going to make things better? Until the bad money is flushed out of the system we will not have a healthy economy. The sooner it happens the sooner things start improving.

Bernanke has even talked about how the government can just buy new cars off lots and then destroy them to stimulate the economy. That simply does not hold up. Making cars to trash them is not productive just like digging a hole so the person behind you can fill it back in is not productive. Compensating people for such things will end up sending us back to the stone age...

Industrial hemp has a lot of uses and when the farm subsidies are gone farmers will need a crop to plant in place of all the garbage corn crop they have been growing. "Castrating" the DEA is a money saver. Pardoning non-violent drug offenders is a money saver. Legally being able to sell marijuana will stimulate the economy.

IllTestYourGirls · 02-05-2009, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync

What I propose has no risk of sending us back to the stone age. It's based on simple mathematics. The US government and people are drowning in debt. Money is debt. Printing more money is generating more debt. This is going to make things better? Until the bad money is flushed out of the system we will not have a healthy economy. The sooner it happens the sooner things start improving.

The reason we are in this mess is because most of America does not understand this.

onwebcam · 02-05-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notime

I see you respond to mostly politcal threads. How do you see a solution of the worlds crisis solved the best way?

Unfortunately people don't want to accept the reality that we have a bunch of power hungry criminals running our government right now and have had for quite some time. There's way too many people out there that really believe Obama is our savior. I think it's going to take a complete breakdown of society for people to begin to pay attention and we're already seeing this. The government of Iceland overthrown, riots in China, France, Latvia, protests and such all across the UK. This is all a sign of whats to come. This Obama bailout proposal is not going to fix the problem we have here in the US or anywhere else for that matter.

The root of the problem is central banking and derivatives. But those are just the tip of the Iceberg which is the only real one melting from global warming because these people keep throwing gas on the fire.. Even if they do just get rid of the derivatives we still have fractional banking. Both of which are financial scams that have been going on for decades and there are LOTS of people who participated in these scams. All of those people are still the same folks at the wheel and they are going to drive us off a cliff to save their own asses. They really do want to blow the system up so they can cover their asses and restart the scams all over.

As far as how I would solve it. I would create a sound monetary system for starts. It would take many steps and would be painful for some. I would start by creating a new cost of living inflated or commodity backed currency which would be used to pay off the National debt. This money and whatever else is needed is placed in the banks to bring them up to full reserve. Eliminate fractional reserve banking. All banks truly nationalized (not via a private corporation such as the Federal Reserve) and current owners/shareholders compensated for their shares. The Fed can be bought out at anytime for $400 billion. Wipe everyone's slate clean of any bad debt related to loan defaults or banking charges. Restart all loans at a fixed interest rate across the board to fund banking operations. Freeze all foreclosures and rework the loans to those standards. Close down the Federal Reserve board and the IRS and end the income tax. ALL OF IT is a scam. Set a fixed national sales tax and import tax. Financial problems solved and everyone is happy. Well almost everyone those holding derivatives should just be hung out to dry, really. Because then I would begin prosecutions and public hangings.

You see none of this stuff above is being talked about except by a few people who are labeled outcasts. If it is otherwise it's being talked about by the same perpetrators running the current system. It's all the same folks in Obama's admin. They are just trying to keep a up in flames and sinking boat afloat until the can sell everyone on what they want not whats best for us. All this bailout is going to do is keep money flowing to government contractors and local governments. The general population is still going to be heading in a downward spiral that is unless they want to take one of those government jobs. This bailout costs each and every person in the US over $6000 and we get what out of it? A $500 tax break and a bigger government. Then we haven't even got into what it's going to do to the dollar. When the dollar tanks hyper-inflation will soon follow and what do they have to do? Print more money.

All this shit is in our history books. We've been through it before and people who have researched it all are considered "conspiracy theorists" because we're not saying the same old line of BS all the people on the TV say. Now that the shit is hitting the fan you start seeing a few repeaters (yes repeaters not reporters) starting to tell the truth but that's all for show. They are the same ones who rediculed those that were warning of all this years ago. The repeaters know the mood of the general public is shifting fast towards anti-establishment so they are jumping on board so not to seem like they are part of the collusion. When the perps want to unveil their solution to the created crisis all the repeaters will say "maybe this is a good thing" and sell they're new rebelling followers on it.

If you've never seen it you should check out John Stewart on Crossfire. He really rips MSM a new asshole. All of it is good but pay close attention to the very last few seconds.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=aFQFB5YpDZE

As far as why I respond to mostly political threads. I'm not going to sit around and let people fuck with my life, my country and my standard of living so they can continue their life of deception. I'm staying very well informed and watching every move made so I can be prepared for whatever may come and telling people of what I learn and have learned over time everywhere. I suggest everyone else do the same. I'm not asking anyone to believe what I say to be true. You need to do your own research and I suggest putting everything you have been taught in the back of your mind and start fresh. Listen to what the "outcasts" are saying. It should be pretty obvious by now how and why the likes of Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich were/are ridiculed. It's because they are going against the grain of the "establishment" and telling the truth.

notime · 02-05-2009, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync

What I propose has no risk of sending us back to the stone age. It's based on simple mathematics. The US government and people are drowning in debt. Money is debt. Printing more money is generating more debt. This is going to make things better? Until the bad money is flushed out of the system we will not have a healthy economy. The sooner it happens the sooner things start improving.

Bernanke has even talked about how the government can just buy new cars off lots and then destroy them to stimulate the economy. That simply does not hold up. Making cars to trash them is not productive just like digging a hole so the person behind you can fill it back in is not productive. Compensating people for such things will end up sending us back to the stone age...

Industrial hemp has a lot of uses and when the farm subsidies are gone farmers will need a crop to plant in place of all the garbage corn crop they have been growing. "Castrating" the DEA is a money saver. Pardoning non-violent drug offenders is a money saver. Legally being able to sell marijuana will stimulate the economy.

Media fed optical illussions must go you say. That has a point. But IRL nobody want to hear it or experience it. People need faith and stability. That seems to be lost these days.
The DEA also does good things IMO. I agree it's not worth to go after a guy dealing weed for 100$ a day while putting 20 guys on such a job to nail him.

Laws, we need better laws. Easy, simple, powerfull, new, 2009 laws instead of 1894 laws. But not ones that are twisted by lawyers or contradict. Like in the 10 commandments. Simple; either it's good or it's bad and punish according to the severity of the crime.

Ethersync · 02-05-2009, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notime

Media fed optical illussions must go you say. That has a point. But IRL nobody want to hear it or experience it. People need faith and stability. That seems to be lost these days.
The DEA also does good things IMO. I agree it's not worth to go after a guy dealing weed for 100$ a day while putting 20 guys on such a job to nail him.

Laws, we need better laws. Easy, simple, powerfull, new, 2009 laws instead of 1894 laws. But not ones that are twisted by lawyers or contradict. Like in the 10 commandments. Simple; either it's good or it's bad and punish according to the severity of the crime.

I think people are grown up enough to handle the truth if politicians would level with them. That would create trust and outlining a plan would give people faith. Stability is nowhere to be found right now no matter what route we go.

The DEA needs to have their budget cut by about 75% to start.

We have way too many laws. Yes, they need to be simpler. I agree completely. Same goes for the tax code...

billyb · 02-05-2009, 05:01 PM

The pill no politician will swallow, therefore it will never happen. Yes the banks should not be bailed out. Yes our car companies should not be bailed out. We need to worry about our social security that we can't pay for.

We have to many unfunded mandates (53 trillion dollars), that we can't cover. The first thing this government needs to do is have a 20% cut across all off our budgets. It won't happen.

We have grown our government so big, it will eventually crash down on us. All of these bailouts are doing, is just delaying what has to happen. That is a major world wide crash.

notime · 02-05-2009, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onwebcam

Unfortunately people don't want to accept the reality that we have a bunch of power hungry criminals running our government right now and have had for quite some time. There's way too many people out there that really believe Obama is our savior. I think it's going to take a complete breakdown of society for people to begin to pay attention and we're already seeing this. The government of Iceland overthrown, riots in China, France, Latvia, protests and such all across the UK. This is all a sign of whats to come. This Obama bailout proposal is not going to fix the problem we have here in the US or anywhere else for that matter.

The root of the problem is central banking and derivatives. But those are just the tip of the Iceberg which is the only real one melting from global warming because these people keep throwing gas on the fire.. Even if they do just get rid of the derivatives we still have fractional banking. Both of which are financial scams that have been going on for decades and there are LOTS of people who participated in these scams. All of those people are still the same folks at the wheel and they are going to drive us off a cliff to save their own asses. They really do want to blow the system up so they can cover their asses and restart the scams all over.

As far as how I would solve it. I would create a sound monetary system for starts. It would take many steps and would be painful for some. I would start by creating a new cost of living inflated or commodity backed currency which would be used to pay off the National debt. This money and whatever else is needed is placed in the banks to bring them up to full reserve. Eliminate fractional reserve banking. All banks truly nationalized (not via a private corporation such as the Federal Reserve) and current owners/shareholders compensated for their shares. The Fed can be bought out at anytime for $400 billion. Wipe everyone's slate clean of any bad debt related to loan defaults or banking charges. Restart all loans at a fixed interest rate across the board to fund banking operations. Freeze all foreclosures and rework the loans to those standards. Close down the Federal Reserve board and the IRS and end the income tax. ALL OF IT is a scam. Set a fixed national sales tax and import tax. Financial problems solved and everyone is happy. Well almost everyone those holding derivatives should just be hung out to dry, really. Because then I would begin prosecutions and public hangings.

You see none of this stuff above is being talked about except by a few people who are labeled outcasts. If it is otherwise it's being talked about by the same perpetrators running the current system. It's all the same folks in Obama's admin. They are just trying to keep a up in flames and sinking boat afloat until the can sell everyone on what they want not whats best for us. All this bailout is going to do is keep money flowing to government contractors and local governments. The general population is still going to be heading in a downward spiral that is unless they want to take one of those government jobs. This bailout costs each and every person in the US over $6000 and we get what out of it? A $500 tax break and a bigger government. Then we haven't even got into what it's going to do to the dollar. When the dollar tanks hyper-inflation will soon follow and what do they have to do? Print more money.

All this shit is in our history books. We've been through it before and people who have researched it all are considered "conspiracy theorists" because we're not saying the same old line of BS all the people on the TV say. Now that the shit is hitting the fan you start seeing a few repeaters (yes repeaters not reporters) starting to tell the truth but that's all for show. They are the same ones who rediculed those that were warning of all this years ago. The repeaters know the mood of the general public is shifting fast towards anti-establishment so they are jumping on board so not to seem like they are part of the collusion. When the perps want to unveil their solution to the created crisis all the repeaters will say "maybe this is a good thing" and sell they're new rebelling followers on it.

If you've never seen it you should check out John Stewart on Crossfire. He really rips MSM a new asshole. All of it is good but pay close attention to the very last few seconds.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=aFQFB5YpDZE

As far as why I respond to mostly political threads. I'm not going to sit around and let people fuck with my life, my country and my standard of living so they can continue their life of deception. I'm staying very well informed and watching every move made so I can be prepared for whatever may come and telling people of what I learn and have learned over time everywhere. I suggest everyone else do the same. I'm not asking anyone to believe what I say to be true. You need to do your own research and I suggest putting everything you have been taught in the back of your mind and start fresh. Listen to what the "outcasts" are saying. It should be pretty obvious by now how and why the likes of Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich were/are ridiculed. It's because they are going against the grain of the "establishment" and telling the truth.

I just knew you would reply in so many words

This contains so much info, I have to re-read it atleast 3 times and reply tommorrow since it's way past midnight here. Most point adressed are very true but each country needs an IRS to take care of the unfortunate & masses (but only...based on people actually caring for it to succeed....or it won't work).

YellowDude · 02-05-2009, 05:12 PM

Pull the plug out of the US and we are all saved.

notime · 02-05-2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YellowDude

Pull the plug out of the US and we are all saved.

The world needs the US and the US needs the world

300 million+ people & businesses just ARE really important.
All bizz works 2 ways.
You have a lot of clients in US right ?

Ethersync · 02-05-2009, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YellowDude

Pull the plug out of the US and we are all saved.

That's funny. The US is on a lot more stable ground economically than most countries in Europe and don't even get me started on the far east and South America

YellowDude · 02-05-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notime

The world needs the US and the US needs the world

300 million+ people & businesses just ARE really important.
All bizz works 2 ways.
You have a lot of clients in US right ?

Got a lot of US clients but since the crises they are pretty calm.

onwebcam · 02-05-2009, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YellowDude

Pull the plug out of the US and we are all saved.

If your country has anything to do with the World Bank or IMF you're in the same boat as us in the US. It's all the same people.

YellowDude · 02-05-2009, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync

That's funny. The US is on a lot more stable ground economically than most countries in Europe and don't even get me started on the far east and South America

Well in fact with money in South America you still make money. I can not say that at the moment for Europe.

In fact we dont feel that much of the crises here for the moment, don't know what the future is bringing.

notime · 02-05-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YellowDude

Well in fact with money in South America you still make money.

this proves the above

http://www.gfy.com/15444515-post1.html
congrats John!
Post some naked pics now and then on GFY

YellowDude · 02-05-2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notime

this proves the above

http://www.gfy.com/15444515-post1.html
congrats John!
Post some naked pics now and then on GFY

I will for sure, thanks!

onwebcam · 02-05-2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notime

Media fed optical illussions must go you say. That has a point. But IRL nobody want to hear it or experience it. People need faith and stability. That seems to be lost these days.
The DEA also does good things IMO. I agree it's not worth to go after a guy dealing weed for 100$ a day while putting 20 guys on such a job to nail him.

Laws, we need better laws. Easy, simple, powerfull, new, 2009 laws instead of 1894 laws. But not ones that are twisted by lawyers or contradict. Like in the 10 commandments. Simple; either it's good or it's bad and punish according to the severity of the crime.

A lot of people might find it hard to believe we don't have "laws." What we have are statues. In most cases what people do is give up their "common law" rights in a situation. I'll get into this more later maybe but it's true. And once again that's just another small portion of the deception iceberg.

If you want to take a peek down that rabbit hole here's a couple of good documentaries to start you off

The Magnificent Deception
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...04244308031068

Bursting Bubbles of Government Deception
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...53665540929835

Kevin Marx · 02-05-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onwebcam

This bailout costs each and every person in the US over $6000 and we get what out of it? A $500 tax break and a bigger government.

No... it doesn't cost each and every person in the US over $6000. That would be if each and every person paid an equal amount of taxes. What it amounts to is those that pay the most tax (the wealthy) paying a lot more ..... maybe in the range of $100K or more.

When 5% of the population pays over 50% of the tax, this isn't a bailout plan, it's an immediate and punishing tax on the currently but soon to not be wealthy and anyone that has money over the next few decades as someone has to pay it off at some point.

WhiplashDug · 02-05-2009, 06:08 PM

The Stimulus is more like a scamulus!!! It's not going to do anything.. here are some cliff notes...

? In 1993, the unemployment was virtually the same as the rate today (around 7%). Yet, President Clinton?s proposed stimulus legislation *only* contained $16 billion in spending

? The total cost of this one piece of legislation is almost as much as the annual discretionary budget for the entire federal government.

? The best way to understand a trillion dollars is to imagine a crisp, new stack of $1000 bills. If you had a stack four inches high, you?d be a millionaire. A trillion-dollar stack of $1000 bills would measure just over 63 miles high. In $20 bills, a trillion dollar stack would be 3150 miles high. That?s about the distance between DC and Trujillo, Peru.

? President-elect Obama has said that his proposed stimulus legislation will create or save 3 million jobs. This means that this legislation will spend about $275,000 per job. The average household income in the U.S. is $42,000 a year.

? This bill provides enough spending to give every man, woman, and child in America $2,700.

? This bill will cost each and every household $6,700 in additional debt.

? Although this legislation has been billed and described as a transportation and infrastructure investment package, but only three percent ($30 billion) of this package is for road and highway spending.

? Much of the funding within the proposed stimulus package will go to programs which already have large, unexpended balances. For example, the draft bill provides $1 billion for Community Development Block Grants (CDBG), which already has $16 billion on hand. And, this year, Congress already has plans to rescind $9 billion in highway funding that the states have not yet used.

? Deficit spending will not expand the economy. If that were true, then the current $1.2 trillion deficit ? the largest in history ? would already be rescuing the economy.

? $920 billion more will not change that.

? Trade groups state that every $1 billion in highway ?stimulus? can be spent creating 34,779 new construction jobs. But Congress must first borrow that $1 billion out of the private sector. The private sector then loses or forgoes roughly the same number of jobs.

? Japan responded to a 1990 recession by passing 10 ?stimulus? bills over 8 years (building the largest national debt in the industrialized world). Their economy remained stagnant and their per capita income went from the second highest in the world to the tenth highest.

....

YellowDude · 02-05-2009, 06:11 PM

But I was joking about pull out the plug. It sucks major ass this situation.

tony286 · 02-05-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiplashDug

The Stimulus is more like a scamulus!!! It's not going to do anything.. here are some cliff notes...

• In 1993, the unemployment was virtually the same as the rate today (around 7%). Yet, President Clinton’s proposed stimulus legislation *only* contained $16 billion in spending

• The total cost of this one piece of legislation is almost as much as the annual discretionary budget for the entire federal government.

• The best way to understand a trillion dollars is to imagine a crisp, new stack of $1000 bills. If you had a stack four inches high, you’d be a millionaire. A trillion-dollar stack of $1000 bills would measure just over 63 miles high. In $20 bills, a trillion dollar stack would be 3150 miles high. That’s about the distance between DC and Trujillo, Peru.

• President-elect Obama has said that his proposed stimulus legislation will create or save 3 million jobs. This means that this legislation will spend about $275,000 per job. The average household income in the U.S. is $42,000 a year.

• This bill provides enough spending to give every man, woman, and child in America $2,700.

• This bill will cost each and every household $6,700 in additional debt.

• Although this legislation has been billed and described as a transportation and infrastructure investment package, but only three percent ($30 billion) of this package is for road and highway spending.

• Much of the funding within the proposed stimulus package will go to programs which already have large, unexpended balances. For example, the draft bill provides $1 billion for Community Development Block Grants (CDBG), which already has $16 billion on hand. And, this year, Congress already has plans to rescind $9 billion in highway funding that the states have not yet used.

• Deficit spending will not expand the economy. If that were true, then the current $1.2 trillion deficit — the largest in history — would already be rescuing the economy.

• $920 billion more will not change that.

• Trade groups state that every $1 billion in highway “stimulus” can be spent creating 34,779 new construction jobs. But Congress must first borrow that $1 billion out of the private sector. The private sector then loses or forgoes roughly the same number of jobs.

• Japan responded to a 1990 recession by passing 10 “stimulus” bills over 8 years (building the largest national debt in the industrialized world). Their economy remained stagnant and their per capita income went from the second highest in the world to the tenth highest.

....

we should do nothing. it let drop and see how far down this baby can go. it will be fun. Then we will be in a depression and really fucked but we wont be paying no more taxes.
Also once again the largest tax increases in this country during peacetime were during St Reagan.

Dcat · 02-05-2009, 06:26 PM

If you really want to know what this is all about, start here.

MONEY AS DEBT PARTS 1 to 5

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ObBzoohesSk
https://youtube.com/watch?v=RNDi8FTyKJ8
https://youtube.com/watch?v=pmbs7DEAHwE
https://youtube.com/watch?v=hkECK5iK0WU
https://youtube.com/watch?v=mqUUnA

The best explanation you'll ever get.

Dirty Dane · 02-05-2009, 06:28 PM

He saved us from Bush

TimmyTuna · 02-05-2009, 06:37 PM

Barry O'Bomber ROCKS!!

WhiplashDug · 02-05-2009, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

we should do nothing. it let drop and see how far down this baby can go. it will be fun. Then we will be in a depression and really fucked but we wont be paying no more taxes.
Also once again the largest tax increases in this country during peacetime were during St Reagan.

Yes.. but NOT ALL of the tax increases COMBINED even come close to the income tax cuts the guy got done. Those tax increases came on consumption (gas, etc.) and were vastly fueled by the large increase of of disposable income that all Americans enjoyed. And at the same time... under that tax plan, a HUGE portion of the overall tax burden shifted onto the wealthy. The top 10% share went from about 49% to 58% of the total tax burden. And the top 1% share went from about 18% to 27% of the total tax burden. While the bottom 50% share went from about 7% to 4% of the tax burden.

But, thats neither here-nor-there. Whater Reagan, or Bush, or Clinton or the other Bush did are in NO COMPARISON to this gigantic sham! NO ONE is suggesting the GOV. do nothing! Not even the lame duck republicans in DC. Even those braniacs say something needs to be done - they just wont support THIS stimulus bill - because its ALL PORK!

If you really, truely are in support of this bill, then i would say you are still a part of the roughly 37% of America who still do. The other 73% is now increasingly aware of the PORK that fills the thousand pages of this PORK bill. Only 20 days ago, nearly 80% of Americans supported this bill. My guess, is that very soon, only the 15% who will be getting a piece of the PORK PLATTER will be supporting this bill by the end of next week.

If this bill is SOOO good, why isn't it passed already? The Democrats DO NOT need Republican support. They can easily pass it on party lines. They have the votes. The easy quick answer... is that the Democrats too know this bill is nothing but PORK and when it dont work - and has the opposite effect as it devalues the US Dollar - they don't want to be the only ones swallowing the shit sandwich! They all WANT to be re-elected next time and know they can't have this hanging around their necks. If that thought alone doesn't make you stop and ask more about it - then you must be asleap at the wheel.

kahell · 02-05-2009, 06:43 PM

Only NFL will save the US economy!

IllTestYourGirls · 02-05-2009, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

we should do nothing. it let drop and see how far down this baby can go. it will be fun. Then we will be in a depression and really fucked but we wont be paying no more taxes.
Also once again the largest tax increases in this country during peacetime were during St Reagan.

And the first bail out stopped the stocks from failing 2000 points?

How many times can the government lie to you and you still believe them?

onwebcam · 02-05-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notime

I just knew you would reply in so many words

This contains so much info, I have to re-read it atleast 3 times and reply tommorrow since it's way past midnight here. Most point adressed are very true but each country needs an IRS to take care of the unfortunate & masses (but only...based on people actually caring for it to succeed....or it won't work).

Yeah I got a little long winded

As far as the IRS and income taxes. It really is all a scam. We don't have income taxes to fund government projects. Maybe that was the original idea sold to our officials. But now every tax dollar is spent on servicing the national debt to the controlling banks of the Fed IMF (who never actually loaned anything begin with) before 1 cent is spent on government services. We went over a hundred years without having any sort of an income tax.

The only reason it came into existence was because of the Federal Reserve act. When the Fed started printing money like crazy during the 10s and 20s people were becoming wealthy and storing all their wealth in local banks (not the reserve banks) so they slowly began pulling money back in by adding taxes. It started as just a tax on businesses and and progressed into a personal income tax. The flat sales tax has been studied for 25 years and is based on consumption. And if it were in place over those years it would have taken care of the national debt, all wars, SSI, welfare, everything and plus some. People would have more money to spend to cover the added tax because it's not being taken out of their checks. People who are less fortunate could get some sort of rebate just like they do now for discounted products. Businesses would have more money because they don't have to pay their share of the employees taxes. Which would all likely lead to lower prices of goods. If times were bad like they are now then government would have to tighten their budget like everyone else. Instead of spending more to make bigger government so we have more government paid drones running around telling everyone what to do.

It's pretty easy to see that they really don't need 30% or whatever of what everyone makes to fund the federal government especially when you take away all the wasteful spending (give a person a job so they don't ask questions) like the IRS. Think about it. What funds schools? Property taxes. What funds police departments? tickets and fines etc. What runs hospitals? Insurance and peoples money. What pays for roads? Gas taxes.

Ethersync · 02-05-2009, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

we should do nothing. it let drop and see how far down this baby can go. it will be fun. Then we will be in a depression and really fucked but we wont be paying no more taxes.

You really do not know a thing about the Great Depression

tony286 · 02-05-2009, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiplashDug

Yes.. but NOT ALL of the tax increases COMBINED even come close to the income tax cuts the guy got done. Those tax increases came on consumption (gas, etc.) and were vastly fueled by the large increase of of disposable income that all Americans enjoyed. And at the same time... under that tax plan, a HUGE portion of the overall tax burden shifted onto the wealthy. The top 10% share went from about 49% to 58% of the total tax burden. And the top 1% share went from about 18% to 27% of the total tax burden. While the bottom 50% share went from about 7% to 4% of the tax burden.

But, thats neither here-nor-there. Whater Reagan, or Bush, or Clinton or the other Bush did are in NO COMPARISON to this gigantic sham! NO ONE is suggesting the GOV. do nothing! Not even the lame duck republicans in DC. Even those braniacs say something needs to be done - they just wont support THIS stimulus bill - because its ALL PORK!

If you really, truely are in support of this bill, then i would say you are still a part of the roughly 37% of America who still do. The other 73% is now increasingly aware of the PORK that fills the thousand pages of this PORK bill. Only 20 days ago, nearly 80% of Americans supported this bill. My guess, is that very soon, only the 15% who will be getting a piece of the PORK PLATTER will be supporting this bill by the end of next week.

If this bill is SOOO good, why isn't it passed already? The Democrats DO NOT need Republican support. They can easily pass it on party lines. They have the votes. The easy quick answer... is that the Democrats too know this bill is nothing but PORK and when it dont work - and has the opposite effect as it devalues the US Dollar - they don't want to be the only ones swallowing the shit sandwich! They all WANT to be re-elected next time and know they can't have this hanging around their necks. If that thought alone doesn't make you stop and ask more about it - then you must be asleap at the wheel.

actually its not all pork read something other than right wing talking points.

tony286 · 02-05-2009, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync

You really do not know a thing about the Great Depression

ok whatever you say

Overload · 02-05-2009, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSenator

Even if Jesus came down to Earth, he wouldn't be able to save us.

The only thing that can save us is more tax cuts for the wealthy.

totally wrong ... the wealthy dont spend a shit ... only if the vast
majority of small income/medium income ppl consume the economy
can and will grow ... the wealthy use tax loopholes and dont pay a
dime ... serious ...

GregE · 02-05-2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

And the first bail out stopped the stocks from failing 2000 points?

How many times can the government lie to you and you still believe them?

It's easy to figure out what won't work and even easier to point fingers.

Sinking boats, burning buildings and traffic clogged highways are traditionally filled with folks who can do that.

Your hero, Peter Schiff, is especially good at doing that.

Figuring out how to actually fix a problem is another thing all together.

There's a word for people who can do the latter, and that word is winner.

Winners make history.

The question, of course, is whether we have any winners in positions of power now that we could really use one?

JUDY ADAMO · 02-06-2009, 05:27 AM

[QUOTE=
The solution is simple, but it is suicide politically in a (modern) democracy.[/QUOTE]

So there is no ready recipes and solutions out of this economic crisis!?

Ethersync · 02-06-2009, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judy_eroads

So there is no ready recipes and solutions out of this economic crisis!?

The solution is simple. Just painful.

tranza · 02-06-2009, 06:19 AM

God can, obama maybe...

JUDY ADAMO · 02-06-2009, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranza

God can, obama maybe...

I'm not a believer. "Religion is an huge insult to human dignity and make aweful things to people!!

JUDY ADAMO · 02-06-2009, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overload

totally wrong ... the wealthy dont spend a shit ... only if the vast
majority of small income/medium income ppl consume the economy
can and will grow ... the wealthy use tax loopholes and dont pay a
dime ... serious ...

Could you please explain to me how wealthy are not spending ?

notime · 02-06-2009, 11:08 AM

Maybe all the women in the world could protest by being naked for a whole week!
If it doesn't work...no harm done.

WhiplashDug · 02-06-2009, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notime

Maybe all the women in the world could protest by being naked for a whole week!
If it doesn't work...no harm done.

I second!

notime · 02-06-2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiplashDug

I second!

Let's spread the word and test if it will work

BadBrad · 02-06-2009, 12:48 PM

Were all fucked! We got to happy with our cheap shit from Walmart, our economic cars from Toyota, Honda, and our new found technology.

Step back from your computer for a second and really look around your room. How many items can you name off that were made here in the US? Me, myself, the only thing I could say is possibly the paper my bills are printed on and the house I am sitting in. Everything else is made from other countries. You may ask what does this have to do with anything, but it has a lot to do with everything. We have taken our own jobs from ourselves by lavishing ourselves with cheap goods. Some not so cheap as in my plasma TV's but that just made Samsung that much more money. We need to return some of those jobs here to stimulate our own economy.

You have the Walmart's, the Starbucks, the Home Depots, the McDonalds and may other large chains that have driven out the small guys. Just in december the last music store here finally closed his doors after almost 30 years because he could not compete with the Best Buy and the other cheap chains. Your comment will be that they bring jobs. Yes they bring jobs, but they also take jobs away. And when they go crash, Circuity City for example, they lose a lot more jobs. It's no more a share of wealth in the US. It's large conglomerates getting richer and richer.

Khulan · 02-06-2009, 12:49 PM

Really really hope so

notime · 02-06-2009, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadBrad

Were all fucked! We got to happy with our cheap shit from Walmart, our economic cars from Toyota, Honda, and our new found technology.

Step back from your computer for a second and really look around your room. How many items can you name off that were made here in the US? Me, myself, the only thing I could say is possibly the paper my bills are printed on and the house I am sitting in. Everything else is made from other countries. You may ask what does this have to do with anything, but it has a lot to do with everything. We have taken our own jobs from ourselves by lavishing ourselves with cheap goods. Some not so cheap as in my plasma TV's but that just made Samsung that much more money. We need to return some of those jobs here to stimulate our own economy.

You have the Walmart's, the Starbucks, the Home Depots, the McDonalds and may other large chains that have driven out the small guys. Just in december the last music store here finally closed his doors after almost 30 years because he could not compete with the Best Buy and the other cheap chains. Your comment will be that they bring jobs. Yes they bring jobs, but they also take jobs away. And when they go crash, Circuity City for example, they lose a lot more jobs. It's no more a share of wealth in the US. It's large conglomerates getting richer and richer.

Independant music stores & rental stores are going out of business in Holland too.
Big chain stores destroyed all the prices in the past and now drop all dvds + cds so they can go into games.....where there's more money to be made...till they kill that too.

The big corps are like parasites, moving from host to host so suck them dry and move on like some kind of virus. Why: shareholders greed & CEO bonus money...

There's nothing wrong with a company being big or making money, but it needs to be socially responsible also for our entire society.

BadBrad · 02-06-2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadBrad

Were all fucked! We got to happy with our cheap shit from Walmart, our economic cars from Toyota, Honda, and our new found technology.

Step back from your computer for a second and really look around your room. How many items can you name off that were made here in the US? Me, myself, the only thing I could say is possibly the paper my bills are printed on and the house I am sitting in. Everything else is made from other countries. You may ask what does this have to do with anything, but it has a lot to do with everything. We have taken our own jobs from ourselves by lavishing ourselves with cheap goods. Some not so cheap as in my plasma TV's but that just made Samsung that much more money. We need to return some of those jobs here to stimulate our own economy.

You have the Walmart's, the Starbucks, the Home Depots, the McDonalds and may other large chains that have driven out the small guys. Just in december the last music store here finally closed his doors after almost 30 years because he could not compete with the Best Buy and the other cheap chains. Your comment will be that they bring jobs. Yes they bring jobs, but they also take jobs away. And when they go crash, Circuity City for example, they lose a lot more jobs. It's no more a share of wealth in the US. It's large conglomerates getting richer and richer.

Here's a recent example i'm talking about.

http://infotech.indiatimes.com/News/...ow/4085361.cms

IBM is cutting thousands of jobs here because the labor is cheaper in India. And then it tells the employee's here to move there if they want to save their job.

IBM

02-05-2009, 05:12 PM	#59
YellowDude Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Breda Posts: 1,031	Pull the plug out of the US and we are all saved. __________________ John Bols Productions Email: jaj.lambregts @ gmail.com

02-05-2009, 06:08 PM	#69
WhiplashDug ICS Graphics Dude Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SACTO Posts: 3,438	The Stimulus is more like a scamulus!!! It's not going to do anything.. here are some cliff notes... ? In 1993, the unemployment was virtually the same as the rate today (around 7%). Yet, President Clinton?s proposed stimulus legislation only contained $16 billion in spending ? The total cost of this one piece of legislation is almost as much as the annual discretionary budget for the entire federal government. ? The best way to understand a trillion dollars is to imagine a crisp, new stack of $1000 bills. If you had a stack four inches high, you?d be a millionaire. A trillion-dollar stack of $1000 bills would measure just over 63 miles high. In $20 bills, a trillion dollar stack would be 3150 miles high. That?s about the distance between DC and Trujillo, Peru. ? President-elect Obama has said that his proposed stimulus legislation will create or save 3 million jobs. This means that this legislation will spend about $275,000 per job. The average household income in the U.S. is $42,000 a year. ? This bill provides enough spending to give every man, woman, and child in America $2,700. ? This bill will cost each and every household $6,700 in additional debt. ? Although this legislation has been billed and described as a transportation and infrastructure investment package, but only three percent ($30 billion) of this package is for road and highway spending. ? Much of the funding within the proposed stimulus package will go to programs which already have large, unexpended balances. For example, the draft bill provides $1 billion for Community Development Block Grants (CDBG), which already has $16 billion on hand. And, this year, Congress already has plans to rescind $9 billion in highway funding that the states have not yet used. ? Deficit spending will not expand the economy. If that were true, then the current $1.2 trillion deficit ? the largest in history ? would already be rescuing the economy. ? $920 billion more will not change that. ? Trade groups state that every $1 billion in highway ?stimulus? can be spent creating 34,779 new construction jobs. But Congress must first borrow that $1 billion out of the private sector. The private sector then loses or forgoes roughly the same number of jobs. ? Japan responded to a 1990 recession by passing 10 ?stimulus? bills over 8 years (building the largest national debt in the industrialized world). Their economy remained stagnant and their per capita income went from the second highest in the world to the tenth highest. .... __________________ Was a graphics master for Lensman @ Adult.com but now... I can't tell ya cause it aint top secret. ........... *DOUGRIDLEYDESIGNS* [email protected] ICQ: 303-498-056 skype: whiplashdug

02-05-2009, 06:11 PM	#70
YellowDude Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Breda Posts: 1,031	But I was joking about pull out the plug. It sucks major ass this situation. __________________ John Bols Productions Email: jaj.lambregts @ gmail.com

02-05-2009, 06:43 PM	#76
kahell Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: icq 493295044 Posts: 292	Only NFL will save the US economy! __________________

02-06-2009, 05:27 AM	#84
JUDY ADAMO Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 254	[QUOTE= The solution is simple, but it is suicide politically in a (modern) democracy.[/QUOTE] So there is no ready recipes and solutions out of this economic crisis!? __________________ Judy Shalom CEO ADAMO adamoads.com [email protected] Skype: judyvanschaik

02-05-2009, 05:01 PM	#57
billyb Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 184	The pill no politician will swallow, therefore it will never happen. Yes the banks should not be bailed out. Yes our car companies should not be bailed out. We need to worry about our social security that we can't pay for. We have to many unfunded mandates (53 trillion dollars), that we can't cover. The first thing this government needs to do is have a 20% cut across all off our budgets. It won't happen. We have grown our government so big, it will eventually crash down on us. All of these bailouts are doing, is just delaying what has to happen. That is a major world wide crash.

02-05-2009, 06:26 PM	#72
Dcat Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Mexico Posts: 1,607	If you really want to know what this is all about, start here. MONEY AS DEBT PARTS 1 to 5 https://youtube.com/watch?v=ObBzoohesSk https://youtube.com/watch?v=RNDi8FTyKJ8 https://youtube.com/watch?v=pmbs7DEAHwE https://youtube.com/watch?v=hkECK5iK0WU https://youtube.com/watch?v=mqUUnA The best explanation you'll ever get.

02-05-2009, 06:28 PM	#73
Dirty Dane Sick Fuck Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: www Posts: 9,491	He saved us from Bush

02-05-2009, 06:37 PM	#74
TimmyTuna Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Muff Diving Posts: 101	Barry O'Bomber ROCKS!!

02-06-2009, 06:19 AM	#86
tranza ICQ: 197-556-237 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: BRASIL !!! Posts: 57,559	God can, obama maybe... __________________ I'm just a newbie.

02-06-2009, 11:08 AM	#89
notime Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: cyberspace Posts: 8,021	Maybe all the women in the world could protest by being naked for a whole week! If it doesn't work...no harm done.

02-06-2009, 12:48 PM	#92
BadBrad Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 618	Were all fucked! We got to happy with our cheap shit from Walmart, our economic cars from Toyota, Honda, and our new found technology. Step back from your computer for a second and really look around your room. How many items can you name off that were made here in the US? Me, myself, the only thing I could say is possibly the paper my bills are printed on and the house I am sitting in. Everything else is made from other countries. You may ask what does this have to do with anything, but it has a lot to do with everything. We have taken our own jobs from ourselves by lavishing ourselves with cheap goods. Some not so cheap as in my plasma TV's but that just made Samsung that much more money. We need to return some of those jobs here to stimulate our own economy. You have the Walmart's, the Starbucks, the Home Depots, the McDonalds and may other large chains that have driven out the small guys. Just in december the last music store here finally closed his doors after almost 30 years because he could not compete with the Best Buy and the other cheap chains. Your comment will be that they bring jobs. Yes they bring jobs, but they also take jobs away. And when they go crash, Circuity City for example, they lose a lot more jobs. It's no more a share of wealth in the US. It's large conglomerates getting richer and richer. __________________ Your sig chose me!

02-06-2009, 12:49 PM	#93
Khulan Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Seattle Posts: 890	Really really hope so __________________ TEEN CASH - CHECK OUT OUR EXCLUSIVE TEEN NICHE SITES Check out our Newest Site: Babysitter Movies - Free Hosted Galleries, Flash Galleries, Tube Content, & Great Support Sample Galleries: Movie Gallery 1 Flash Gallery 1 Gallery 1