interesting read on the economy: - GoFuckYourself.com

Grapesoda · 02-23-2009, 08:55 AM

There is an old Russian fable, with different versions in other countries, about two poor peasants, Ivan and Boris. The only difference between them was that Boris had a goat and Ivan didn't. One day, Ivan came upon a strange-looking lamp and, when he rubbed it, a genie appeared. She told him that she could grant him just one wish, but it could be anything in the world.

Ivan said, "I want Boris' goat to die."

Variations on this story in other countries suggest that this tells us something about human beings, not just Russians.

It may tell us something painful about many Americans today, when so many people are preoccupied with the pay of corporate CEOs. It is not that the corporate CEOs' pay affects them so much. If every oil company executive in America agreed to work for nothing, that would not be enough to lower the price of a gallon of gasoline by a dime. If every General Motors executive agreed to work for nothing, that would not lower the price of a Cadillac or a Chevrolet by one percent.

Too many people are like Ivan, who wanted Boris' goat to die.

It is not even that the average corporate CEO makes as much money as any number of professional athletes and entertainers. The average pay of a CEO of a corporation big enough to be included in the Standard & Poor's index is less than one-third of what Alex Rodriguez makes, about one-tenth of what Tiger Woods makes and less than one-thirtieth of what Oprah Winfrey makes.

But when has anyone ever accused athletes or entertainers of "greed"?

It is not the general public that singles out corporate CEOs for so much attention. Politicians and the media have focused on business leaders, and the public has been led along, like sheep.

The logic is simple: Demonize those whose place or power you plan to usurp.

Politicians who want the power to micro-manage business and the economy know that demonizing those who currently run businesses is the opening salvo in the battle to take over their roles.

There is no way that politicians can take over the roles of Alex Rodriguez, Tiger Woods or Oprah Winfrey. So they can make any amount of money they want and it doesn't matter politically.

Those who want more power have known for centuries that giving the people somebody to hate and fear is the key.

In 18th century France, promoting hatred of the aristocracy was the key to Robespierre's acquiring more dictatorial power than the aristocracy had ever had, and using that power to create a bigger bloodbath than anything under the old regime.

In the 20th century, it was both the czars and the capitalists in Russia who were made the targets of public hatred by the Communists on their road to power. That power created more havoc in the lives of more people than czars and capitalists ever had combined.

As in other countries and other times, today it is not just a question of which elites win out in a tug of war in America. It is the people at large who have the most at stake.

We have just seen one of the biggest free home demonstrations of what happens in an economy when politicians tell businesses what decisions to make.

For years, using the powers of the Community Reinvestment Act and other regulatory powers, along with threats of legal action if the loan approval rates varied from the population profile, politicians have pressured banks and other lending institutions into lending to people they would not lend to otherwise.

Yet, when all this blows up in our faces and the economy turns down, what is the answer? To have more economic decisions made by politicians, because they choose to say that "deregulation" is the cause of our problems.

Regardless of how much suffocating regulation may have been responsible for an economic debacle, politicians have learned that they can get away with it if they call it "deregulation."

No matter what happens, for politicians it is "heads I win and tails you lose." If we keep listening to the politicians and their media allies, we are all going to keep losing, big time. Keeping our attention focused on CEO pay? Boris' goat? is all part of this game. We are all goats if we fall for it.

Agent 488 · 02-23-2009, 09:01 AM

looks like crap people email blindly on the internet.

Pleasurepays · 02-23-2009, 09:02 AM

i don't think its about "greed" - its about a desperate need to assign blame and have something "somewhere else" to point the finger at, as being the problem. Doing that, means you don't have to do the really tough thing and point the finger at yourself.

people by nature are irresponsible and its far easier to play the victim than to accept responsibility for our own actions

HorseShit · 02-23-2009, 09:02 AM

cliff notes please

JFK · 02-23-2009, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by budsbabes

looks like crap people email blindly on the internet.

some of the blindly mailed "crap" on the internet actually makes a lot of sense

Kevin Marx · 02-23-2009, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

i don't think its about "greed" - its about a desperate need to assign blame and have something "somewhere else" to point the finger at, as being the problem. Doing that, means you don't have to do the really tough thing and point the finger at yourself.

people by nature are irresponsible and its far easier to play the victim than to accept responsibility for our own actions

Bingo.... dead ringer.

The blame game works better than anything else. You can get away with anything if you can find someone to blame for it in the end.

Grapesoda · 02-23-2009, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by budsbabes

looks like crap people email blindly on the internet.

actually it's from a column of a well known 'economics professor at stanford'

pornguy · 02-23-2009, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bm bradley

There is an old Russian fable, with different versions in other countries, about two poor peasants, Ivan and Boris. The only difference between them was that Boris had a goat and Ivan didn't. One day, Ivan came upon a strange-looking lamp and, when he rubbed it, a genie appeared. She told him that she could grant him just one wish, but it could be anything in the world.

Ivan said, "I want Boris' goat to die."

Variations on this story in other countries suggest that this tells us something about human beings, not just Russians.

It may tell us something painful about many Americans today, when so many people are preoccupied with the pay of corporate CEOs. It is not that the corporate CEOs' pay affects them so much. If every oil company executive in America agreed to work for nothing, that would not be enough to lower the price of a gallon of gasoline by a dime. If every General Motors executive agreed to work for nothing, that would not lower the price of a Cadillac or a Chevrolet by one percent.

If the CEO for Ford or Chevy took a pay cut from his 35k an hour pay, How many people would avoid being laid off??

Quote:

Too many people are like Ivan, who wanted Boris' goat to die.

It is not even that the average corporate CEO makes as much money as any number of professional athletes and entertainers. The average pay of a CEO of a corporation big enough to be included in the Standard & Poor's index is less than one-third of what Alex Rodriguez makes, about one-tenth of what Tiger Woods makes and less than one-thirtieth of what Oprah Winfrey makes.

But when has anyone ever accused athletes or entertainers of "greed"?

Is Orca's show laying people off? If so, then maybe she needs a pay cut as well. What about Tiger?? How many people has he laid off??

In general the athaletes are greedy and a lot of people have spoken out about it. They get the X million dollar contract and all of a sudden they dont play as well as they did while in college. Wonder why??? They DONT have to. There is NO CLAUSE in the contract that says they MUST make X touchdowns or X home runs.

Quote:

It is not the general public that singles out corporate CEOs for so much attention. Politicians and the media have focused on business leaders, and the public has been led along, like sheep.

The logic is simple: Demonize those whose place or power you plan to usurp.

Politicians who want the power to micro-manage business and the economy know that demonizing those who currently run businesses is the opening salvo in the battle to take over their roles.

There is no way that politicians can take over the roles of Alex Rodriguez, Tiger Woods or Oprah Winfrey. So they can make any amount of money they want and it doesn't matter politically.

Err Yes they can, They just need to get control of the companies that own the teams. Its a little harder on Golfers but they do play for money from the different associations.

Quote:

Those who want more power have known for centuries that giving the people somebody to hate and fear is the key.

In 18th century France, promoting hatred of the aristocracy was the key to Robespierre's acquiring more dictatorial power than the aristocracy had ever had, and using that power to create a bigger bloodbath than anything under the old regime.

In the 20th century, it was both the czars and the capitalists in Russia who were made the targets of public hatred by the Communists on their road to power. That power created more havoc in the lives of more people than czars and capitalists ever had combined.

As in other countries and other times, today it is not just a question of which elites win out in a tug of war in America. It is the people at large who have the most at stake.

We have just seen one of the biggest free home demonstrations of what happens in an economy when politicians tell businesses what decisions to make.

For years, using the powers of the Community Reinvestment Act and other regulatory powers, along with threats of legal action if the loan approval rates varied from the population profile, politicians have pressured banks and other lending institutions into lending to people they would not lend to otherwise.

Yet, when all this blows up in our faces and the economy turns down, what is the answer? To have more economic decisions made by politicians, because they choose to say that "deregulation" is the cause of our problems.

Regardless of how much suffocating regulation may have been responsible for an economic debacle, politicians have learned that they can get away with it if they call it "deregulation."

No matter what happens, for politicians it is "heads I win and tails you lose." If we keep listening to the politicians and their media allies, we are all going to keep losing, big time. Keeping our attention focused on CEO pay? Boris' goat? is all part of this game. We are all goats if we fall for it.

Politicians are out for themselves first, and a wayyy distant last is the people they are supposed to represent. and that wont change any time soon.

Grapesoda · 02-23-2009, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pornguy

Is Orca's show laying people off? If so, then maybe she needs a pay cut as well. What about Tiger?? How many people has he laid off??

I figure what she paid for her 30+ acre estate in monticito she could help lots of bothers in south central

Quote:

In general the athaletes are greedy and a lot of people have spoken out about it. They get the X million dollar contract and all of a sudden they dont play as well as they did while in college. Wonder why??? They DONT have to. There is NO CLAUSE in the contract that says they MUST make X touchdowns or X home runs.

it's the agents that are driving the prices sky high, just like they did with actors and just like they did with porn models. personally I think the athletes could take a huge cut in pay and bring ticket prices way down...

Quote:

Politicians are out for themselves first, and a wayyy distant last is the people they are supposed to represent. and that wont change any time soon.

bingo!!!

pornguy · 02-23-2009, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bm bradley

I figure what she paid for her 30+ acre estate in monticito she could help lots of bothers in south central

it's the agents that are driving the prices sky high, just like they did with actors and just like they did with porn models. personally I think the athletes could take a huge cut in pay and bring ticket prices way down...

bingo!!!

I totally agree with you 100% and I hope I did not come off sounding like I was attacking you.

It really sucks to see the sheep line up and follow what people tell them

Just search this board its self and read how obama was the savior. you will also see me posting that he is a politician and will fuck as all for his own gain.

Grapesoda · 02-23-2009, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pornguy

I totally agree with you 100% and I hope I did not come off sounding like I was attacking you.

It really sucks to see the sheep line up and follow what people tell them

Just search this board its self and read how obama was the savior. you will also see me posting that he is a politician and will fuck as all for his own gain.

I never feel attacked by you .... to me this column is an interesting read and I probably believe it... however I'm sure there are other sides and agendas... I really like t. sowell's work

_Richard_ · 02-23-2009, 12:42 PM

interesting point regarding the sports/media centers

Grapesoda · 02-23-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBR Richard

interesting point regarding the sports/media centers

yes it is isn't it? I totally think the gov is trying to grab all the banks

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 02-23-2009, 01:03 PM

Propaganda...

Apologists for the wealthy... Now thats something new.

mhende6600 · 02-23-2009, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdavis

cliff notes please

ditto his statement

lofasz · 02-23-2009, 04:33 PM

Thou shalt not covet, thy neighbor's goat.

Penthouse Tony · 02-23-2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bm bradley

For years, using the powers of the Community Reinvestment Act and other regulatory powers, along with threats of legal action if the loan approval rates varied from the population profile, politicians have pressured banks and other lending institutions into lending to people they would not lend to otherwise.

Isn't this just Republicans demonizing Democrats so they can take back power? When times were good no bank complained about this Act. They all loved it. It made them ridiculous money.

$5 submissions · 02-23-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bm bradley

actually it's from a column of a well known 'economics professor at stanford'

Thomas Sowell?

mynameisjim · 02-23-2009, 05:05 PM

I think what people are angry at is that certain CEOs received huge bonus payouts based on "performance" when they pretty much bankrupted their own companies and half of the country in the process.

Few people complain about what Steve Jobs, or Bill Gates, or the Google founders make. Most people thought it was awesome that the guy who created Youtube sold it for billions.

cykoe6 · 02-23-2009, 05:22 PM

Good article. It is a shame so few understand what is happening right now.

pornask · 02-23-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdavis

cliff notes please

BlackCrayon · 02-23-2009, 05:46 PM

You can't compare these CEO's who knew damn well things were tanking but did and said nothing to athletes or celebs. Their actions had a direct effect on what is happening now. Of course they are far from the only people to blame but they do share in it. When some asshole celebrity gets paid 10mil for a movie, it doesn't effect my paycheck or my 401k.

onwebcam · 02-23-2009, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bm bradley

No matter what happens, for politicians it is "heads I win and tails you lose." If we keep listening to the politicians and their media allies, we are all going to keep losing, big time. Keeping our attention focused on CEO pay— Boris' goat— is all part of this game. We are all goats if we fall for it.

While I agree with that point mostly these politicians are bought and paid for by these big money interests. So it's "heads I win and tails you lose" to the big money interests via the politicians.

Grapesoda · 02-23-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

Thomas Sowell?

yup, that would be who

Janak · 02-23-2009, 06:50 PM

Everyone should just be rich. That'd work, right?

Grapesoda · 02-23-2009, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onwebcam

While I agree with that point mostly these politicians are bought and paid for by these big money interests. So it's "heads I win and tails you lose" to the big money interests via the politicians.

yep and it's looks like the political's are going to gain accesses to our banking system.... now they can seal money without having to waste time putting a scheme together. $.02

rokstarz · 02-23-2009, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhende6600

ditto his statement

Here is some cliff notes for ya:
...titties, titties, titties...[insert pic of porno dans dick here]...titties, titties, titties.

That make it a little more interesting for ya?

tony286 · 02-23-2009, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagi_AFF

Isn't this just Republicans demonizing Democrats so they can take back power? When times were good no bank complained about this Act. They all loved it. It made them ridiculous money.

you are right

tony286 · 02-23-2009, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

I think what people are angry at is that certain CEOs received huge bonus payouts based on "performance" when they pretty much bankrupted their own companies and half of the country in the process.

Few people complain about what Steve Jobs, or Bill Gates, or the Google founders make. Most people thought it was awesome that the guy who created Youtube sold it for billions.

very true.i think maybe the guy who wrote the article may have a small agenda.

Grapesoda · 02-23-2009, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

very true.i think maybe the guy who wrote the article may have a small agenda.

read up on him and then decide $.02

02-23-2009, 08:55 AM	#1
Grapesoda So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Montana Posts: 46,238	interesting read on the economy: There is an old Russian fable, with different versions in other countries, about two poor peasants, Ivan and Boris. The only difference between them was that Boris had a goat and Ivan didn't. One day, Ivan came upon a strange-looking lamp and, when he rubbed it, a genie appeared. She told him that she could grant him just one wish, but it could be anything in the world. Ivan said, "I want Boris' goat to die." Variations on this story in other countries suggest that this tells us something about human beings, not just Russians. It may tell us something painful about many Americans today, when so many people are preoccupied with the pay of corporate CEOs. It is not that the corporate CEOs' pay affects them so much. If every oil company executive in America agreed to work for nothing, that would not be enough to lower the price of a gallon of gasoline by a dime. If every General Motors executive agreed to work for nothing, that would not lower the price of a Cadillac or a Chevrolet by one percent. Too many people are like Ivan, who wanted Boris' goat to die. It is not even that the average corporate CEO makes as much money as any number of professional athletes and entertainers. The average pay of a CEO of a corporation big enough to be included in the Standard & Poor's index is less than one-third of what Alex Rodriguez makes, about one-tenth of what Tiger Woods makes and less than one-thirtieth of what Oprah Winfrey makes. But when has anyone ever accused athletes or entertainers of "greed"? It is not the general public that singles out corporate CEOs for so much attention. Politicians and the media have focused on business leaders, and the public has been led along, like sheep. The logic is simple: Demonize those whose place or power you plan to usurp. Politicians who want the power to micro-manage business and the economy know that demonizing those who currently run businesses is the opening salvo in the battle to take over their roles. There is no way that politicians can take over the roles of Alex Rodriguez, Tiger Woods or Oprah Winfrey. So they can make any amount of money they want and it doesn't matter politically. Those who want more power have known for centuries that giving the people somebody to hate and fear is the key. In 18th century France, promoting hatred of the aristocracy was the key to Robespierre's acquiring more dictatorial power than the aristocracy had ever had, and using that power to create a bigger bloodbath than anything under the old regime. In the 20th century, it was both the czars and the capitalists in Russia who were made the targets of public hatred by the Communists on their road to power. That power created more havoc in the lives of more people than czars and capitalists ever had combined. As in other countries and other times, today it is not just a question of which elites win out in a tug of war in America. It is the people at large who have the most at stake. We have just seen one of the biggest free home demonstrations of what happens in an economy when politicians tell businesses what decisions to make. For years, using the powers of the Community Reinvestment Act and other regulatory powers, along with threats of legal action if the loan approval rates varied from the population profile, politicians have pressured banks and other lending institutions into lending to people they would not lend to otherwise. Yet, when all this blows up in our faces and the economy turns down, what is the answer? To have more economic decisions made by politicians, because they choose to say that "deregulation" is the cause of our problems. Regardless of how much suffocating regulation may have been responsible for an economic debacle, politicians have learned that they can get away with it if they call it "deregulation." No matter what happens, for politicians it is "heads I win and tails you lose." If we keep listening to the politicians and their media allies, we are all going to keep losing, big time. Keeping our attention focused on CEO pay? Boris' goat? is all part of this game. We are all goats if we fall for it.

02-23-2009, 01:03 PM	#14
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	Propaganda... Apologists for the wealthy... Now thats something new. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

02-23-2009, 04:33 PM	#16
lofasz Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 120	The 11th commandment... Thou shalt not covet, thy neighbor's goat.

02-23-2009, 05:05 PM	#19
mynameisjim Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,985	I think what people are angry at is that certain CEOs received huge bonus payouts based on "performance" when they pretty much bankrupted their own companies and half of the country in the process. Few people complain about what Steve Jobs, or Bill Gates, or the Google founders make. Most people thought it was awesome that the guy who created Youtube sold it for billions. __________________ jim (at) amateursconvert . com Amateurs Convert

02-23-2009, 05:22 PM	#20
cykoe6 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vegas Posts: 4,499	Good article. It is a shame so few understand what is happening right now. __________________ бабки, шлюхи, сила

02-23-2009, 09:01 AM	#2
Agent 488 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 22,511	looks like crap people email blindly on the internet.

02-23-2009, 09:02 AM	#3
Pleasurepays BANNED - SUPPORTING TUBES Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I live in a pile of boogers Posts: 11,913	i don't think its about "greed" - its about a desperate need to assign blame and have something "somewhere else" to point the finger at, as being the problem. Doing that, means you don't have to do the really tough thing and point the finger at yourself. people by nature are irresponsible and its far easier to play the victim than to accept responsibility for our own actions

02-23-2009, 09:02 AM	#4
HorseShit Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 17,513	cliff notes please

02-23-2009, 12:42 PM	#12
_Richard_ Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 30,985	interesting point regarding the sports/media centers

02-23-2009, 05:46 PM	#22
BlackCrayon Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ottawa Posts: 19,631	You can't compare these CEO's who knew damn well things were tanking but did and said nothing to athletes or celebs. Their actions had a direct effect on what is happening now. Of course they are far from the only people to blame but they do share in it. When some asshole celebrity gets paid 10mil for a movie, it doesn't effect my paycheck or my 401k. __________________ you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

02-23-2009, 06:50 PM	#25
Janak Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 483	Everyone should just be rich. That'd work, right? __________________ My stats here.