100% valid cards declined at sponsors - GoFuckYourself.com

nickutis · 06-26-2009, 03:20 AM

Got both, Visa and Mastercard.

Tried some test sales with sponsors using localbillinglimited merchant - got declined with BOTH cards! And they are 100% valid, using them daily at internet shops/atm/etc

So how the hell we are supposed to earn money when you can't charge a fuckin customer?

Agrhrhhrhrhr

no wonder ratios climbing so high last days, it's not a fuckin tubes that made it, it's the merchants who are declining visitors for no reason

redwhiteandblue · 06-26-2009, 03:41 AM

I think this is a far more likely explanation for ratios being up one month and on the floor the next. There's nothing we can really do about it I guess, just concentrate on those sponsors least affected. Are people finding that CCBill sponsor ratios are less affected than others at the moment?

seeandsee · 06-26-2009, 03:52 AM

why they can't process?

Matyko · 06-26-2009, 03:59 AM

My ratios are shit again since 20th June...Thanks for the confirmation, I suspected this as primary cause. WTF!!!

Matyko · 06-26-2009, 04:01 AM

i can just HOPE that my cookies last longer than this fucking problem.

janosik · 06-26-2009, 04:20 AM

same here

Very bad ratios last few days

iSpyCams · 06-26-2009, 05:15 AM

My ratios have been down all month. My guess is that with all the scamming that's been going on, everyone has their fraud protection cranked so high they gertting false positives and shutting down good deals as well.

Also a few months ago remember MC decided that cross-sales were against its terms of use, I wonder if processors are being forced by MC to scrutinize purchases to a level that is nearly counter productive, declining based on minor address mis-spellings, etc. in order to show due diligence and not have their MC privileges revoked.

Others that are already in hot water due to cross sales passing through their systems may just be intentionally trying to lay low.

Just theorizing based on ratios, I don't have any real info.

Pleasurepays · 06-26-2009, 05:20 AM

tubes cause valid cards to be declined

nomercy · 06-26-2009, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redwhiteandblue

Are people finding that CCBill sponsor ratios are less affected than others at the moment?

No, my ccbill stats went from a steady 1:600 to 1:1500 in May, then went back to near normal this month... except since the 20th. It's been dead the past week or so.

Matyko · 06-26-2009, 07:06 AM

Sponsors, affiliates, please confirm or comment, this is much more serious than any MJ threads... So far everybody confirmed to me that 20th was last "good" day, and as of 21th everything went pure shit...

We are doomed!!! :P

Pete-KT · 06-26-2009, 07:14 AM

could be your bank declining it becaquse its a high risk charge, you gotta look at the decline error code, if its bank decline that means the bank didnt approve it because its high risk, if its processor decline thats because of the scrub rates

ContentPimp · 06-26-2009, 07:23 AM

Yes, CCBILL sales stopped for me too for some strange reason... which is impossible unless there is a CC issue somewhere...

nickutis · 06-26-2009, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete-KT

could be your bank declining it becaquse its a high risk charge, you gotta look at the decline error code, if its bank decline that means the bank didnt approve it because its high risk, if its processor decline thats because of the scrub rates

This processor doesn't give any error code. It just says payment was not approved, try another card. Well, i tried another - and i got declined again.

frankie_gunn · 06-26-2009, 07:45 AM

Yeah, my sales are down by 50% this month, so far, too.

jakethedog · 06-26-2009, 08:04 AM

Ratios are down cause schools out and unemployed Dad's can't jerk with the kids running around the house .... I am thinking about adding a daycare coupon to may product lines ..

nickutis · 06-26-2009, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakethedog

Ratios are down cause schools out and unemployed Dad's can't jerk with the kids running around the house .... I am thinking about adding a daycare coupon to may product lines ..

lol ..

from other side, there would be no clicks from those dads (cause they have kids running around), so ratios would be stayed the same..

PSSuperstars · 06-26-2009, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete-KT

could be your bank declining it becaquse its a high risk charge, you gotta look at the decline error code, if its bank decline that means the bank didnt approve it because its high risk, if its processor decline thats because of the scrub rates

We will have clients whose cards just will not go thru some days because high risk charges are blocked...

So what you're saying is true.. they need to go to the backend and look at the decline reason...

Matyko · 06-26-2009, 12:55 PM

!!! to the top !!!

fuzebox · 06-26-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matyko

Sponsors, affiliates, please confirm or comment, this is much more serious than any MJ threads... So far everybody confirmed to me that 20th was last "good" day, and as of 21th everything went pure shit...

We are doomed!!! :P

I will concur, as of monday the 21st my earnings started to decline, with today being the worst day... Although my average earnings per day this week are only 10% less than last week.

d-null · 06-26-2009, 02:02 PM

fuck

Titan · 06-26-2009, 02:49 PM

I can confirm that ratios have dropped a bit since the 20th. There was two possible reasons I saw for this. It was hot for an extended period and then it rained for a couple days which made people buy and then it got hot again and people stopped buying (too hot to wank?). Or it could be the processors. There has been an extraordinary amount of fraud attempts this year. I'm sure that processors have been cracking down on fraud hard to keep CBs ratios manageable. Also I think they have been denying most new requests for crosssales. But why all the processors seem to scrub at the same time is somewhat baffling to me. Perhaps an end of the month scrub? Sales have been pretty good so far today though, however. My feeling is that with the economy fragile fraudsters have kicked it into high gear to make cash. This of course fucks the average joe because it forces all credit card guys to over scrub. I'm hoping this will all clear out in a month or two and return back to more normal levels.

Titan · 06-26-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete-KT

could be your bank declining it becaquse its a high risk charge, you gotta look at the decline error code, if its bank decline that means the bank didnt approve it because its high risk, if its processor decline thats because of the scrub rates

This seems more likely. Why would it affect all billing processors? If the banks are flagging stuff due to high risk on some days then it would affect all sales regardless of what processor you use and there would be no way to avoid it. Kinda shitty if the banks are stepping in and stopping our sales. I really doubt its due to tubes. You would be seeing gradual declines, not the stop n go sales that are occurring.

Supz · 06-26-2009, 02:58 PM

Billers are just being much more careful these days.

StarkReality · 06-26-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supzdotcom

Billers are just being much more careful these days.

Maybe, but I experienced a sharp drop in new CCBill sales exactly a week ago, so the 20th as well, pretty much down 40-50% on average, worst spike being yesterday with just one fucking new sale. Rebills are about normal.

nickutis · 06-26-2009, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titan

I can confirm that ratios have dropped a bit since the 20th. There was two possible reasons I saw for this. It was hot for an extended period and then it rained for a couple days which made people buy and then it got hot again and people stopped buying (too hot to wank?).

yeah man but don't forget we are in worldwide bussiness.. air conditions you have described doesn't apply to whole world.. For example here in europe we haven't seen any sunny / hot period, so i don't see how it could affect sales

FilthyRob · 06-27-2009, 12:13 AM

Sales have been rough for a week at least for me. Rebills are ok from what I can tell.

nickutis · 06-27-2009, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarkReality

Maybe, but I experienced a sharp drop in new CCBill sales exactly a week ago, so the 20th as well, pretty much down 40-50% on average, worst spike being yesterday with just one fucking new sale. Rebills are about normal.

It would be nice to hear ccbill position about this.

Ramp · 06-27-2009, 02:09 AM

I noticed this shit happening for me too

femdomdestiny · 06-27-2009, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomercy

No, my ccbill stats went from a steady 1:600 to 1:1500 in May, then went back to near normal this month... except since the 20th. It's been dead the past week or so.

Same here,although I have worse ratios then yours.

nickutis · 06-27-2009, 02:18 AM

My friend just tried to make a test sale, from the same country as im, only different bank Visa.

Your payment could not be processed. Please try again or choose another payment method.

wtf is happening?

CarlosTheGaucho · 06-27-2009, 02:27 AM

Yeah, and now imagine you're a sponsor and you're supposed to take a hit just because of the imposed restrictions, banks are going nuts.

hawkadu · 06-27-2009, 02:31 AM

My ccbill sales suddently went extremely shit exactly on 21st and I don't know whats up. I'm at 1:14000 in last one week. I'm usually at 1:1800 with ccbill.

Somthing fucking is going on in CCbill. They are scrubbing hard. From what I've seen this is something ccbill is doing. IMO Banks won't decline cards for a few days and accept for another few days. I think It is the processor doing extremely high scrubbing to keep any sort of chargebacks down. This helps them avoid the penalties that might pop up coz of chargebacks.

I've seen this with ccbill earlier too. One day sales will suddenly be back and next day suck ass. WTF

Ramp · 06-27-2009, 02:40 AM

I'm wondering how about other cc merchants?

hawkadu · 06-27-2009, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramp

I'm wondering how about other cc merchants?

I think each and every merchant is doing this, more or bit less. Everybody want to keep the chargebacks under control to avoid paneltines. I remember talking to a program owner who told that processors scrubb hard to keep the chargebacks down.

I'm sure many other guys here on GFY can confirm this.

Ramp · 06-27-2009, 03:31 AM

bumping this

nickutis · 06-27-2009, 03:57 AM

I just tried to signup on another sponsor, wich let's you to choose wich processor should bill customer

EPOCH --- VISA and MC declined
CCBILL --- VISA and MC declined
NETCASH - VISA and MC declined
SEGPAY -- VISA declined, MC approved

To make the situation even worse, sponsor didn't counted this sale, LOL..

korke · 06-27-2009, 04:02 AM

bump for crisis...

Dirty Dane · 06-27-2009, 04:19 AM

Overall ratios for ccbill this month:

01.-20.: 1:1577
21.-27.: 1:3285

On 21., 22. and 23. I had NO new sales. That has not happened to me on this side of the millenia.
What are we supposed to sell if people can't even pay for porn? Usenet accounts??

iSpyCams · 06-27-2009, 04:22 AM

It would be really nice to see some comments from some of these processing companies here.

janosik · 06-27-2009, 04:53 AM

CCBill seems to be hit very hard with this scrubbing issue. I have decided to stop promote all my ccbill sponsors ... until situation will be solved

Slappin Fish · 06-27-2009, 05:06 AM

It isn't ccbill or porn only.

I tried to load some funds to my moniker account.

MC on file at Moniker, used it for the past few years - declined
Another two VISA and one MC in my name - declined

What the fuck is going on

nickutis · 06-27-2009, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slappin Fish

It isn't ccbill or porn only.

I tried to load some funds to my moniker account.

MC on file at Moniker, used it for the past few years - declined
Another two VISA and one MC in my name - declined

What the fuck is going on

well i just paid for the domain names on namecheap with the same VISA that was declined by all porn merchants (CCBILL, epoch, netcash, segpay)

Ramp · 06-27-2009, 05:19 AM

I just also used my cc to renew my domains at namecheap. all went good.

Slappin Fish · 06-27-2009, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickutis

well i just paid for the domain names on namecheap with the same VISA that was declined by all porn merchants (CCBILL, epoch, netcash, segpay)

I also successfully paid another registrar with the cards that where declined at moniker.

But when I went to pay for hosting at Choopa, all declined again.

There cards had never been declined before, not once. Not saying everybody is declining cards, but something strange beyond porn is going on...

Dirty Dane · 06-27-2009, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickutis

well i just paid for the domain names on namecheap with the same VISA that was declined by all porn merchants (CCBILL, epoch, netcash, segpay)

Same here. Had some domains for renewal, and now I got really worried.

I also did a test signup, but with no cc decline. Maybe because no one commit fraud here

Shoplifter · 06-27-2009, 06:59 AM

This was also covered in this thread about a week ago in more detail:

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=910638

Signup declines are a bitch, but declined rebills are making me nuts.

femdomdestiny · 06-27-2009, 08:23 AM

Why somoone from CCbill don't say something?

Agent 488 · 06-27-2009, 08:31 AM

with 10% of cards now in default and the number to climb by the end of the year maybe banks are declining charges they think are high risk?

hawkadu · 06-27-2009, 09:26 AM

another bullshit day with ccbill in progress. wtf has happened to all sponsors. dunno

Mr.Right - Banned For Life · 06-27-2009, 09:28 AM

i like pie

06-26-2009, 03:20 AM	#1
nickutis Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 719	100% valid cards declined at sponsors Got both, Visa and Mastercard. Tried some test sales with sponsors using localbillinglimited merchant - got declined with BOTH cards! And they are 100% valid, using them daily at internet shops/atm/etc So how the hell we are supposed to earn money when you can't charge a fuckin customer? Agrhrhhrhrhr no wonder ratios climbing so high last days, it's not a fuckin tubes that made it, it's the merchants who are declining visitors for no reason

06-26-2009, 03:41 AM	#2
redwhiteandblue Bollocks Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bollocks Posts: 2,792	I think this is a far more likely explanation for ratios being up one month and on the floor the next. There's nothing we can really do about it I guess, just concentrate on those sponsors least affected. Are people finding that CCBill sponsor ratios are less affected than others at the moment? __________________ Interserver unmanaged AMD Ryzen servers from $73.00

06-26-2009, 03:52 AM	#3
seeandsee Check SIG! Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Europe (Skype: gojkoas) Posts: 50,945	why they can't process? __________________ BUY MY SIG - 50$/Year Contact here

06-26-2009, 03:59 AM	#4
Matyko PsyHead Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Hungary Posts: 8,664	My ratios are shit again since 20th June...Thanks for the confirmation, I suspected this as primary cause. WTF!!! __________________ -=- Register with our ref link and we help you with the setup! -=- AdSpyglass.com - Double your profit from brokers

06-26-2009, 04:01 AM	#5
Matyko PsyHead Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Hungary Posts: 8,664	i can just HOPE that my cookies last longer than this fucking problem. __________________ -=- Register with our ref link and we help you with the setup! -=- AdSpyglass.com - Double your profit from brokers

06-26-2009, 04:20 AM	#6
janosik Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 754	same here Very bad ratios last few days

06-26-2009, 05:15 AM	#7
iSpyCams Amateur Gynecologist Industry Role: Join Date: May 2009 Location: Medellin Posts: 4,436	My ratios have been down all month. My guess is that with all the scamming that's been going on, everyone has their fraud protection cranked so high they gertting false positives and shutting down good deals as well. Also a few months ago remember MC decided that cross-sales were against its terms of use, I wonder if processors are being forced by MC to scrutinize purchases to a level that is nearly counter productive, declining based on minor address mis-spellings, etc. in order to show due diligence and not have their MC privileges revoked. Others that are already in hot water due to cross sales passing through their systems may just be intentionally trying to lay low. Just theorizing based on ratios, I don't have any real info.

06-26-2009, 05:20 AM	#8
Pleasurepays BANNED - SUPPORTING TUBES Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I live in a pile of boogers Posts: 11,913	tubes cause valid cards to be declined

06-26-2009, 07:06 AM	#10
Matyko PsyHead Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Hungary Posts: 8,664	Sponsors, affiliates, please confirm or comment, this is much more serious than any MJ threads... So far everybody confirmed to me that 20th was last "good" day, and as of 21th everything went pure shit... We are doomed!!! :P __________________ -=- Register with our ref link and we help you with the setup! -=- AdSpyglass.com - Double your profit from brokers

06-26-2009, 07:14 AM	#11
Pete-KT Workin With The Devil Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: West Bloomfield, MI Posts: 51,532	could be your bank declining it becaquse its a high risk charge, you gotta look at the decline error code, if its bank decline that means the bank didnt approve it because its high risk, if its processor decline thats because of the scrub rates

06-26-2009, 07:23 AM	#12
ContentPimp Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 3,184	Yes, CCBILL sales stopped for me too for some strange reason... which is impossible unless there is a CC issue somewhere... __________________ Blog Post Writing and Reviews are 2 cents per word & Titles and Gallery Descriptions 1 cent per word We also write Pay Site Reviews, SEO and Mainstream text www.contentpimp.info Contact me on ICQ at 400792466 Payoneer, Paxum and Paypal Accepted forms of Payment by the Pimp

06-26-2009, 07:45 AM	#14
frankie_gunn Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 270	Yeah, my sales are down by 50% this month, so far, too.

06-26-2009, 08:04 AM	#15
jakethedog Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Vancouver B.C. Posts: 2,497	Ratios are down cause schools out and unemployed Dad's can't jerk with the kids running around the house .... I am thinking about adding a daycare coupon to may product lines .. __________________ No sig .. just me

06-26-2009, 12:55 PM	#18
Matyko PsyHead Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Hungary Posts: 8,664	!!! to the top !!! __________________ -=- Register with our ref link and we help you with the setup! -=- AdSpyglass.com - Double your profit from brokers

06-26-2009, 02:02 PM	#20
d-null . . . Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NY Posts: 13,724	fuck __________________ __________________ Looking for a custom TUBE SCRIPT that supports massive traffic, load balancing, billing support, and h264 encoding? Hit up Konrad! Looking for designs for your websites or custom tubesite design? Hit up Zuzana Designs Check out the #1 WordPress SEO Plugin: CyberSEO Suite

06-26-2009, 02:49 PM	#21
Titan Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: teencash.com Posts: 994	I can confirm that ratios have dropped a bit since the 20th. There was two possible reasons I saw for this. It was hot for an extended period and then it rained for a couple days which made people buy and then it got hot again and people stopped buying (too hot to wank?). Or it could be the processors. There has been an extraordinary amount of fraud attempts this year. I'm sure that processors have been cracking down on fraud hard to keep CBs ratios manageable. Also I think they have been denying most new requests for crosssales. But why all the processors seem to scrub at the same time is somewhat baffling to me. Perhaps an end of the month scrub? Sales have been pretty good so far today though, however. My feeling is that with the economy fragile fraudsters have kicked it into high gear to make cash. This of course fucks the average joe because it forces all credit card guys to over scrub. I'm hoping this will all clear out in a month or two and return back to more normal levels. __________________ TEEN CASH - EXCLUSIVE TEEN NICHE REALITY SITES Check out our Newest Site: Teen Porno Pass - Free Hosted Galleries, Flash Galleries, Tube Content, & Great Support Sample Galleries: Movie Gallery 1 Flash Gallery 1 Pic Gallery 1

06-26-2009, 02:58 PM	#23
Supz Arthur Flegenheimer Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New York City Posts: 11,056	Billers are just being much more careful these days.

06-27-2009, 12:13 AM	#26
FilthyRob Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Anaheim - CA Posts: 6,741	Sales have been rough for a week at least for me. Rebills are ok from what I can tell. __________________ AKA - Clubsexy

06-27-2009, 02:09 AM	#28
Ramp Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,464	I noticed this shit happening for me too

06-27-2009, 02:18 AM	#30
nickutis Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 719	My friend just tried to make a test sale, from the same country as im, only different bank Visa. Your payment could not be processed. Please try again or choose another payment method. wtf is happening?

06-27-2009, 02:27 AM	#31
CarlosTheGaucho Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 9,510	Yeah, and now imagine you're a sponsor and you're supposed to take a hit just because of the imposed restrictions, banks are going nuts. __________________ CTG Media \| skype: carlosprague \| cb \|at\| ctgmedia \|dot\| net \| Want to make more with your Dating Traffic? \| Read My Educational Series \| Read my Adult Biz Chronicles \| Did your ad revenue drop by 40 pct. or more last year?

06-27-2009, 02:31 AM	#32
hawkadu Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 276	My ccbill sales suddently went extremely shit exactly on 21st and I don't know whats up. I'm at 1:14000 in last one week. I'm usually at 1:1800 with ccbill. Somthing fucking is going on in CCbill. They are scrubbing hard. From what I've seen this is something ccbill is doing. IMO Banks won't decline cards for a few days and accept for another few days. I think It is the processor doing extremely high scrubbing to keep any sort of chargebacks down. This helps them avoid the penalties that might pop up coz of chargebacks. I've seen this with ccbill earlier too. One day sales will suddenly be back and next day suck ass. WTF

06-27-2009, 02:40 AM	#33
Ramp Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,464	I'm wondering how about other cc merchants?

06-27-2009, 03:31 AM	#35
Ramp Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,464	bumping this

06-27-2009, 03:57 AM	#36
nickutis Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 719	I just tried to signup on another sponsor, wich let's you to choose wich processor should bill customer EPOCH --- VISA and MC declined CCBILL --- VISA and MC declined NETCASH - VISA and MC declined SEGPAY -- VISA declined, MC approved To make the situation even worse, sponsor didn't counted this sale, LOL..

06-27-2009, 04:02 AM	#37
korke Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: ICQ:167704889 Posts: 161	bump for crisis...

06-27-2009, 04:19 AM	#38
Dirty Dane Sick Fuck Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: www Posts: 9,491	Overall ratios for ccbill this month: 01.-20.: 1:1577 21.-27.: 1:3285 On 21., 22. and 23. I had NO new sales. That has not happened to me on this side of the millenia. What are we supposed to sell if people can't even pay for porn? Usenet accounts?? Last edited by Dirty Dane; 06-27-2009 at 04:21 AM..

06-27-2009, 04:22 AM	#39
iSpyCams Amateur Gynecologist Industry Role: Join Date: May 2009 Location: Medellin Posts: 4,436	It would be really nice to see some comments from some of these processing companies here.

06-27-2009, 04:53 AM	#40
janosik Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 754	CCBill seems to be hit very hard with this scrubbing issue. I have decided to stop promote all my ccbill sponsors ... until situation will be solved

06-27-2009, 05:06 AM	#41
Slappin Fish Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Thailand Posts: 2,512	It isn't ccbill or porn only. I tried to load some funds to my moniker account. MC on file at Moniker, used it for the past few years - declined Another two VISA and one MC in my name - declined What the fuck is going on

06-27-2009, 05:19 AM	#43
Ramp Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,464	I just also used my cc to renew my domains at namecheap. all went good.

06-27-2009, 06:59 AM	#46
Shoplifter Richest man in Babylon Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Posts: 10,002 Posts: 5,679	This was also covered in this thread about a week ago in more detail: http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=910638 Signup declines are a bitch, but declined rebills are making me nuts.

06-27-2009, 08:23 AM	#47
femdomdestiny Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,169	CCbill Why somoone from CCbill don't say something? __________________ Femdom Destiny -------------------------------------------- ICQ: 463-630-426 email: webmaster(at)femdomdestiny.com

06-27-2009, 08:31 AM	#48
Agent 488 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 22,511	with 10% of cards now in default and the number to climb by the end of the year maybe banks are declining charges they think are high risk?

06-27-2009, 09:26 AM	#49
hawkadu Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 276	another bullshit day with ccbill in progress. wtf has happened to all sponsors. dunno