People should stop giving credit to MJ for his "music"

[Fletch XXX]

We all known Quincy Jones is the mastermind behind him, in fact, music history fans known that MJ was "too busy practicing" dance moves during the recording of Thriller and Quincy Jones was fristrated with him and tension grew. MJ almost didnt release the album.

MJ can dance and sing, but Quncy Jones made Thriller, the man deserves way more credit than he has ever gotten for making MJ famous. And when it comes to Thriller, MJ didnt even write it!!!

Rod Temperton wrote Thriller. Also songs like Rock With you etc... MJ didnt write any of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Temperton

cant stand ignorant music fans who dont know shit about albums or how they made, just "MJ was the best, his music was genius"

yeah, Quincy Jones is a genius, and he can play!

[Martin]

Word up.

[MaDalton]

that's why i always said that Prince is the way better musician. maybe also a little excentric, but still much more sane than MJ ever was

[Barefootsies]

While I am also annoyed by all the hype. You need to put it in perspective champ.

MJ is a face man. A talented one. An entertainer.

Just as MJ did not write, all, of his own hit music. Steve Jobs did not invent the computer, or GUI. Nor did he create Pixar's graphics advantage. Nor the concept of online music. However he gets credit for all his 'revolutions'.

They are talented face men who took a song, a computer, a business and made it famous.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

that's why i always said that Prince is the way better musician. maybe also a little excentric, but still much more sane than MJ ever was

yes, Prince can not only dance, sing, write his own stuff, he can play THE FUCK out of guitar.

MJ as far as I know, could never compete on that level. I have nothing against MJ, but as a Quincy Jones fan, I cant help but get a little irritated when reading articles claiming how genius Thriller was and that MJ was a music god, when he didnt write the song at all, and Quincy Jones was in the studio for 10+ ho8urs a day while MJ was off practicing his moonwalk. Fact is, people like MJ would never have made it wouthout the wonderful producers who made his hits for him, as well as, wrote all the lyrics

[Kevin Marx]

add to that, MJ hasn't even been a relevant performer for 20 years... people are sheep. always have been, always will be. Interesting how the media can play someone off as important, relevant and interesting, even when they aren't, don't ya think?

[seeandsee]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

yeah, Quincy Jones is a genius, and he can play!

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

While I am also annoyed by all the hype. You need to put it in perspective champ.

MJ is a face man. A talented one. An entertainer.

Just as MJ did not write, all, of his own hit music. Steve Jobs did not invent the computer, or GUI. Nor did he create Pizar's graphics advantage. Nor the concept of online music. However he gets credit for all his 'revolutions'.

They are talented face men who took a song, a computer, a business and made it famous.

As i said above, the title is about "credit for his music" When you dont write a song, you dont play any instrument on them, and some qhite dud in England writes your lyrics, musicologists and critics have every right to speak up for those musicians and song writers who actually were this "artists" creativity. he was far from an artist, I think of pop stars more as actors. All they do is dance and sing, and when they write their own stuff, they FLOP.

Again, not bashing MJ, just setting record straight on folks claiming "MJ was a musicial genius" in the media. Thats what this threads about, not detracting from MJs acomplishments as celeb.

I have not seen a single article mention the actual song writers lol just "MJ was a god"

[CE_Rashaan]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

We all known Quincy Jones is the mastermind behind him, in fact, music history fans known that MJ was "too busy practicing" dance moves during the recording of Thriller and Quincy Jones was fristrated with him and tension grew. MJ almost didnt release the album.

MJ can dance and sing, but Quncy Jones made Thriller, the man deserves way more credit than he has ever gotten for making MJ famous. And when it comes to Thriller, MJ didnt even write it!!!

Rod Temperton wrote Thriller. Also songs like Rock With you etc... MJ didnt write any of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Temperton

cant stand ignorant music fans who dont know shit about albums or how they made, just "MJ was the best, his music was genius"

yeah, Quincy Jones is a genius, and he can play!

um excuse me but........

Here is just a SHORT LIST of songs written ONLY by Michael

Billie Jean
The Way You Make Me Feel
Black or White
Bad
I Just Can't Stop Loving You
Beat It
The Girl Is Mine
Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough
Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'
Heal The World
They Don't Care About Us
Stranger In Moscow
Earth song
D.S
Money
Childhood
Little Susie

And some songs Michael co-wrote

We are the world
Remember The Time
Scream
This Time Around
2 Bad

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

Again, not bashing MJ, just setting record straight on folks claiming "MJ was a musicial genius" in the media.

From your replies, you follow/ed MJ's music more than I did. So you have more vested interest.

I was a kid when he was even relevant in the music scene. I have caught a few of the MJ lore celebrations and tributes. Depending on which one's you watch. He wrote his music. He did not write his music. He was a performer. Whatever.

That said, I'll defer to your expertise on the MJ song writing lore.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by CE_Rashaan

um excuse me but........

Here is just a SHORT LIST of songs written ONLY by Michael

Billie Jean
The Way You Make Me Feel
Black or White
Bad
I Just Can't Stop Loving You
Beat It
The Girl Is Mine
Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough
Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'
Heal The World
They Don't Care About Us
Stranger In Moscow
Earth song
D.S
Money
Childhood
Little Susie

And some songs Michael co-wrote

We are the world
Remember The Time
Scream
This Time Around
2 Bad

Quite a list of songs written by him......

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

From your replies, you follow/ed MJ's music more than I did. So you have more vested interest.

I was a kid when he was even relevant in the music scene. I have caught a few of the MJ lore celebrations and tributes. Depending on which one's you watch. He wrote his music. He did not write his music. He was a performer. Whatever.

That said, I'll defer to your expertise on the MJ song writing lore.

yes, as a kid, I heard MJ like everyone else, had the Thriller vinyl, and loved the sound. In fact, MJ/Quincy Jones was partially responsible for me getting so into synthesizers and electronic music production. Im a huge fan of guys like Herbie hancock and Quincy Jones, Isaac hayes etc, guys who played synths with funky/jazz beats.

I own Quincy Jones and herbie hancock albums and have played them since I was a kid, have always enjoyed the sound of those drum machines and synths Quincy and the like used.

[Furious_Male]

I could really give a shit but its well documented that MJ wrote a lot of his own songs.

As far as the Quincy Jones vs. MJ argument. What are the chances that Quincy Jones would have found somone as good as MJ to rocket the songs he did write to the top of the charts and part of music history.

[Robbie]

Yeah, a lot of artists are that way. Pretty much every record on the billboard charts these days is mostly the result of a talented producer telling the artist what to play, how to play it and where to play it.

Michael Jackson was far more involved with his albums than 99% of the so-called "artists" are. Prince is of course in charge all the way. Rolling Stones are the same way. But not many are. Even Aerosmith brought in song writers and producers...and I think Tyler/Perry are a great rock song writing team.

So I'd say Michael wrote some great songs. And having Quincy Jones on Thriller was just pure gold. Quincy is definitely the man. BUT, it took two to tango. Quincy has produced a lot of records. But only his teaming up with Michael Jackson was able to produce the highest selling record of all times. I think that Quincy's contribution is recognized by most...well maybe not by the screaming little girls in 1983, but in 2009 you would have to be living under a rock to have not read or seen the story of the making of Thriller and Quincy Jones' involvement.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Quite a list of songs written by him......

this is where the facts get muddled, yes he wrote the lyrics to Billie jean, but more people worked on making that song than have posted in this thread. You guys make it sound like Mj sat down and just wrote it and it was a hit, far from truth.

They had to bring in quite a few musicians to make that song likeable. In fact, Quincy Jones didnt even want to relase it on Thriller! They spent A LOT of time trying to get it right and it took way more men to make happen than MJ..... Writing lyrics is not that difficult, making music people will enjoy is.

[CE_Rashaan]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

Again, not bashing MJ, just setting record straight on folks claiming "MJ was a musicial genius" in the media. Thats what this threads about, not detracting from MJs acomplishments as celeb.

So does that mean I can reset the record straight and say "Michael was a musical genius"

BTW- My father and Uncle both grew up with Jimmy and Quincy in Seattle and Quincy is still a family friend, I am a little young so I don't know ALL of Quincy's history intimately but I have never heard of him detracting from Michael's mucical genius.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Yeah, a lot of artists are that way. Pretty much every record on the billboard charts these days is mostly the result of a talented producer telling the artist what to play, how to play it and where to play it.

Michael Jackson was far more involved with his albums than 99% of the so-called "artists" are. Prince is of course in charge all the way. Rolling Stones are the same way. But not many are. Even Aerosmith brought in song writers and producers...and I think Tyler/Perry are a great rock song writing team.

So I'd say Michael wrote some great songs. And having Quincy Jones on Thriller was just pure gold. Quincy is definitely the man. BUT, it took two to tango. Quincy has produced a lot of records. But only his teaming up with Michael Jackson was able to produce the highest selling record of all times. I think that Quincy's contribution is recognized by most...well maybe not by the screaming little girls in 1983, but in 2009 you would have to be living under a rock to have not read or seen the story of the making of Thriller and Quincy Jones' involvement.

I knew this would be a good thread, lots of musicians with great opinions, love the discourse guys. Music is my favorite topic. Not here to fight, just chat while working lol

[CIVMatt]

Same thing with Led Zeppelin... all ripped songs

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by CE_Rashaan

So does that mean I can reset the record straight and say "Michael was a musical genius"

a musical genius wouldnt need to hire a bass player to play the bassline on Billie jean, though, would he?

he could dance, and sing, but really - he didnt even play the bass line to Billie jean lol far from musical genius

[»Rob Content«]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

this is where the facts get muddled, yes he wrote the lyrics to Billie jean, but more people worked on making that song than have posted in this thread. You guys make it sound like Mj sat down and just wrote it and it was a hit, far from truth.

They had to bring in quite a few musicians to make that song likeable. In fact, Quincy Jones didnt even want to relase it on Thriller! They spent A LOT of time trying to get it right and it took way more men to make happen than MJ..... Writing lyrics is not that difficult, making music people will enjoy is.

With any music, album and etc lots of people go into making it happen, the producers, studio engineer, back up singers, and lots more. It's part of the game, always has been always will.

Quincy Jones does not go out on stage and sing and dance, sell out venues, or anything else.

Quincy is the god of production, no one will ever argue that, but also everything he has produced has sold like mad and made tons of number 1 hits. The performer has a lot to do with that, tons.

You are making it sound like it was all Quincy and they could have plugged anyone into that spot in that era and it would have sold like mad.

[pornguy]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

While I am also annoyed by all the hype. You need to put it in perspective champ.

MJ is a face man. A talented one. An entertainer.

Just as MJ did not write, all, of his own hit music. Steve Jobs did not invent the computer, or GUI. Nor did he create Pixar's graphics advantage. Nor the concept of online music. However he gets credit for all his 'revolutions'.

They are talented face men who took a song, a computer, a business and made it famous.

Add to the list Half the music entertainers out there dont write thier own songs or even music for that matter.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by »Rob Content«

You are making it sound like it was all Quincy and they could have plugged anyone into that spot in that era and it would have sold like mad.

No i am just saying: People should stop giving credit to MJ for his "music"

His music was never made by him, and thats what this is about. m u s i c

not getting on stage, dancing, singing, talking about the prodcution of his "music" that he is all so often given credit for.

[FlexxAeon]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

As i said above, the title is about "credit for his music" When you dont write a song, you dont play any instrument on them, and some qhite dud in England writes your lyrics, musicologists and critics have every right to speak up for those musicians and song writers who actually were this "artists" creativity. he was far from an artist, I think of pop stars more as actors. All they do is dance and sing, and when they write their own stuff, they FLOP.

Again, not bashing MJ, just setting record straight on folks claiming "MJ was a musicial genius" in the media. Thats what this threads about, not detracting from MJs acomplishments as celeb.

I have not seen a single article mention the actual song writers lol just "MJ was a god"

you notice though that people in the know (berry gordy for example) use words like "entertainer" and not "musician" most of the time. fans/fanatics don't know the difference and they don't really care.

this is nothing new though. producers/writers have always been the "silent" partners in the success of artists. the face man gets all the credit from fanatics. the behind the scenes people get the checks.

no, quincy probably won't get the send off that michael got. but he also didn't have to deal with the madness. Q can walk the streets right now with little incident (save TMZ), and he wasn't driven to the brink like michael was. i'm sure he's good with the trade off.

and as mentioned, a lot of times it "takes two". can you imagine Quincy singing "wanna be startin somethin" and making it work? Or trying to moonwalk?

just sayin, can't expect the masses to know the difference between a musician and an entertainer

edit: i see some of the points i made were already made.... blame it on the phone call i got mid post

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by FlexxAeon

this is nothing new though. producers/writers have always been the "silent" partners in the success of artists. the face man gets all the credit from fanatics. the behind the scenes people get the checks.

known all too well man, im a fan of many producers.... I love the Ramones, but I know what Phil Spector did for them. I also really love AC/DC, but I know Mutt Lange made Back in Black/highway to hell what it is today, those background vocals are great, and its not ac/dc doing them ;)

[Rangermoore]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

this is where the facts get muddled, yes he wrote the lyrics to Billie jean, but more people worked on making that song than have posted in this thread. You guys make it sound like Mj sat down and just wrote it and it was a hit, far from truth.

They had to bring in quite a few musicians to make that song likeable. In fact, Quincy Jones didnt even want to relase it on Thriller! They spent A LOT of time trying to get it right and it took way more men to make happen than MJ..... Writing lyrics is not that difficult, making music people will enjoy is.

I guess Millions of people did not enjoy MJs music. What songs have you written? since it's so easy. What has Quincy Jones done to help other people around the world?

Source: Wikipedia
"Songs written by Michael Jackson"

A
Another Part of Me

B
Bad (Michael Jackson song)
Beat It
Billie Jean
Blood on the Dance Floor (song)

C
Can You Feel It

D
D.S. (song)
Dangerous (Michael Jackson song)
Dirty Diana
Do the Bartman
Don't Stop 'til You Get Enough

E
Earth Song
Eat It

F
Fat (song)

G
Get It (song)
The Girl Is Mine
Give In to Me

H
HIStory/Ghosts
Heal the World

I
In the Closet

J
Jam (song)

L
Leave Me Alone
Liberian Girl
Little Susie
Lovely One

M
Muscles (song)

R
Remember the Time

S
Say Say Say
Scream/Childhood
Shake Your Body (Down to the Ground)
Smooth Criminal
State of Shock
Stranger in Moscow

T
They Don't Care About Us
This Place Hotel

W
Walk Right Now
Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'
The Way You Make Me Feel
We Are Here to Change the World
We Are the World
What More Can I Give
Who Is It (Michael Jackson song)
Will You Be There

Y
You Rock My World

[»Rob Content«]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

No i am just saying: People should stop giving credit to MJ for his "music"

His music was never made by him, and thats what this is about. m u s i c

not getting on stage, dancing, singing, talking about the prodcution of his "music" that he is all so often given credit for.

He is the one who performed it, was the face on the album, the one when you hear it relate to it.

So in your world when an album comes out take thriller for example it should have said:

Quincy Jones, Rod Temperton, Eddie Van Halen "guitar on beat it", Anthony Marinelli "synthesizer programming", and Michael Jackson with the lyrics.

[Rangermoore]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

No i am just saying: People should stop giving credit to MJ for his "music"

His music was never made by him, and thats what this is about. m u s i c

not getting on stage, dancing, singing, talking about the prodcution of his "music" that he is all so often given credit for.

Nobody has ever said that Michael Jackson "produced" his own music...yes Quincy Jones is a good music producer but thats about it...

[Fletch XXX]

again not here to argue my opinion, just put it out there.

And yes, on the album it clearly indicated song writers. I remember acking my mom was paul McCartney was lol then wondered why MJ had this guy on his album for such a terrible song. I liked the upbeat stuff and coundlt stand that Mccartney track, even as a kid!

[FlexxAeon]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

known all too well man, im a fan of many producers.... I love the Ramones, but I know what Phil Spector did for them. I also really love AC/DC, but I know Mutt Lange made Back in Black/highway to hell what it is today, those background vocals are great, and its not ac/dc doing them ;)

yes i know what you mean. i'm a fan first and musician second. so when i was a kid, i was spinnin and moonwalkin thinking Mike was to credit for it all. got older and started making music and got way more interested in in the liner notes. it was a little like learning santa claus isn't real. lol. but i'm much more or a writer/producer groupie these days.

having said that, michael still had skills. he wrote/produced (or at least he is credited as such) songs like This Place Hotel, which happens to be in my top two of Mike's songs

[getmouthy]

Originally Posted by »Rob Content«

With any music, album and etc lots of people go into making it happen, the producers, studio engineer, back up singers, and lots more. It's part of the game, always has been always will.

Quincy Jones does not go out on stage and sing and dance, sell out venues, or anything else.

Quincy is the god of production, no one will ever argue that, but also everything he has produced has sold like mad and made tons of number 1 hits. The performer has a lot to do with that, tons.

You are making it sound like it was all Quincy and they could have plugged anyone into that spot in that era and it would have sold like mad.

[FlexxAeon]

Originally Posted by Rangermoore

...We Are Here to Change the World...

CAPTAIN EO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*faints*

[Rangermoore]

Originally Posted by FlexxAeon

I am a dickhead and I will suck cock for pennys!!!

*faints*

Funny stuff

[FlexxAeon]

Originally Posted by Rangermoore

Funny stuff

such genius! mike would be in awe

[Rangermoore]

Originally Posted by FlexxAeon

such genius! mike would be in awe

You started it with that quote that I never posted...

[FlexxAeon]

Originally Posted by Rangermoore

You started it with that quote that I never posted...

lol. wrong. all i did was condense it. look at your post again and then do a little research about what you (blindly) copy/pasted...

[jcsike]

i agree, when a new hot site comes out, many times way too much credit is given to the owners/operations guys and not enough to the designers

[todhunter]

Frank Sinatra didn't play an instrument or write music and he was OK. (Then again, he was meticulous in giving credit to songwriters, which makes me laugh when people refer to "Frank Sinatra's 'I've Got You Under My Skin.'")

Quincy Jones has got to be the most overrated no-talent hack in the music industry. I still remember the rancid solo album where he turned Joe Zawinul's "Birdland" into a march and I think the epitome of his career has to be the foul "Soul Bossa Nova" which is neither. I used to listen to it to remind me of just how bad he was -- I called it "the tweet-tweet song" -- and then Mike Myers appropriated it for Austin Powers and it looks like only Myers and myself are in on that particular joke.

In all fairness, Jones' film scores don't suck as bad as the rest of his stuff. His "In Cold Blood" score is particularly good -- although that sting sound over the first shot sounds an awful lot like Johnny Mandel's opening note from "Harper" the year before.

--t

[ReGGs]

Next you are gonna tell me that Britney Spears doesn't write her own songs. What is this world coming to?

[frankie_gunn]

Either way the HOLLYWOODIZATION IS COMING !!!

[FlexxAeon]

Originally Posted by todhunter

Frank Sinatra didn't play an instrument or write music and he was OK. (Then again, he was meticulous in giving credit to songwriters, which makes me laugh when people refer to "Frank Sinatra's 'I've Got You Under My Skin.'")

Quincy Jones has got to be the most overrated no-talent hack in the music industry. I still remember the rancid solo album where he turned Joe Zawinul's "Birdland" into a march and I think the epitome of his career has to be the foul "Soul Bossa Nova" which is neither. I used to listen to it to remind me of just how bad he was -- I called it "the tweet-tweet song" -- and then Mike Myers appropriated it for Austin Powers and it looks like only Myers and myself are in on that particular joke.

In all fairness, Jones' film scores don't suck as bad as the rest of his stuff. His "In Cold Blood" score is particularly good -- although that sting sound over the first shot sounds an awful lot like Johnny Mandel's opening note from "Harper" the year before.

--t

Todd you know i love ya but calling Quincy Jones a no talent hack is fighting words! it's way too harsh. perhaps he's not always on point but when he gets it right (which he does more often than not) he knocks it out of the park. "just once", "secret garden" for example.

[2012]

[michael.kickass]

The man is dead Fletch, give him a break =)

[TubeTitans_SusieQ]

How about the MJ talk just STOP all together?

[dav3]

Thriller wasn't even a good song. The only thing that made it 'special' was that it took up waaay too much time on MTV when they actually played music videos.

[Supz]

Didn't he touch some kids?

[CE_Rashaan]

People refer to Michael as a "musical genius" because that is what he did...make music.

I never saw any flyers or promotions for the "Michael Jackson Dance Show" or a album called "Moonwalking with Michael"

The man made music...no matter who else collaborated on a Michael Jackson song, its still a Michael Jackson SONG

Thus his genius is recognized in his trade, which is MUSIC

but what you arent thinking of is.... WHY his music is sooooo genius?

It wasnt because his songs had the best bass lines, beats, or production.

The genius is, that through his music Michael could bring together the WORLD

That is the Genius in his music

[Devils Advocate]

jacko is a pedo already

[gmr324]

How many US soldiers died in Iraq and Afghanistan yesterday and we didn't hear word one about them?
He was a great dancer and singer, but enough is enough. Has to be put into perspective

[Ace_luffy]

singer is like a god for the fans but the composer who create a song on the singer is only a fly

[Darkland]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

No i am just saying: People should stop giving credit to MJ for his "music"

His music was never made by him, and thats what this is about. m u s i c

not getting on stage, dancing, singing, talking about the prodcution of his "music" that he is all so often given credit for.

I hear what you are saying but you can't start a fire with out a match or someone to strike it. MJ being the match, Quincy or whoever else the person lighting the match, and the fire it creates is the goal. MJ was a powerful match and started a great fire, take MJ out of the equation and replace it with just any old match and you might not even get a spark.

Whatever he did or didn't do is not important but how his fans perceived him is and always will be. Anything other than that is merely chest beating and crying the world is unfair or I should get credit...