How much is affiliate traffic REALLY worth? - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

Barefootsies · 08-15-2009, 12:27 PM

100 Good Business Discussions

fuzebox · 08-15-2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

No offense bud, but I'll listen to the processors who see the back end of this industry. The TRUTH of sales, whales, charge backs, declines, and other shit. I'll bank on their thoughts, predictions, and conclusions other than relying on message board theory.

Again, no offense meant to you personally. Simply saying I will rely on the facts, not theory debate.

Really? A processor told you that without cross sales 75% of adult companies will go out of business? And this is what you call a "fact"?

Nice discussion you have going here

Barefootsies · 08-15-2009, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzebox

Really? A processor told you that without cross sales 75% of adult companies will go out of business? And this is what you call a "fact"?

Nice discussion you have going here

If you are going to cite me, cite me correctly. Thanks.

They claimed that their projection was 50-75% of big programs would go under without cross sales, and that cross sales are keeping them afloat.

Also, since they actually see the back end of the business with transactions, sales, declines, and what not. I will take their word for it over a message board 'opinion' any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

Especially since they are in a position to see the back end of multiple programs unlike a single person/program and their opinion.

alias · 08-15-2009, 12:33 PM

High $ or per trial PPS generally do seem to entail cross-sales.

Barefootsies · 08-15-2009, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alias

High $ or per trial PPS generally do seem to entail cross-sales.

Yes indeed.

Webmaster Advertising · 08-15-2009, 01:46 PM

From what im told it is virtually impossible for PPS programs to operate without cross and upsells think about it....... Getting paid $50 on a $1 transaction the math just doesnt add up but everyone wants $1 trials and highest payouts but at the same time a lot of people are bitching about cross and upsells... It is quite ironic actually.

Webmaster Advertising · 08-15-2009, 01:50 PM

In terms of affiliate traffics worth i think it should be paid for one a sliding scale, if you send 1-10 signups you make 40%, if you send 11-20 you make 50% if you send 21-30 you make 60% etc.

Starting off at a minimum payout level of at least 50% for unproven affiliates makes no sense to me at all (i havent been doing this that long though).

I have been checking through some of our ccbill stats for the past few weeks on Condom Cash and it appears that those affiliates sending the most sales only make up about 15% of our entire affiliate base and they also need the less amount of help and support but the affiliates sending 1 or 2 sales a week or month constantly want more content, new banners, more fhgs and other things.

One other thing that i dont quite understand about the porn business is that there is no contractual obligation for an affiliate to keep sending traffic so with that in mind they could rape a program of all their content and promo tools diluting their effectiveness for other affiliates then once they stop working, move on to another program and do the same thing.

With a sliding scale based pay scale there may actually end up being some kind of loyalty to a program for an affiliate i know in ccbill if you send us more sales you get paid more automatically because that is how it has been setup.

DonovanTrent · 08-15-2009, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster Advertising

One other thing that i dont quite understand about the porn business is that there is no contractual obligation for an affiliate to keep sending traffic so with that in mind they could rape a program of all their content and promo tools diluting their effectiveness for other affiliates then once they stop working, move on to another program and do the same thing.

...and that's exactly what's happened over the years. It boggles my mind, the sponsors who say "go in our members area and just grab whatever you want for promotion." Allow that, and you know what they're going to grab.

Webmaster Advertising · 08-15-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonovanTrent

...and that's exactly what's happened over the years. It boggles my mind, the sponsors who say "go in our members area and just grab whatever you want for promotion." Allow that, and you know what they're going to grab.

So why hasnt this been put a stop to? I know we do not have the license to allow the content we have in our members area to be given to affiliates to use so there must be other programs that are not allowed to do that either or do programs really not care so long as they make money to cover the costs of a sites development?

DonovanTrent · 08-15-2009, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster Advertising

So why hasnt this been put a stop to? I know we do not have the license to allow the content we have in our members area to be given to affiliates to use so there must be other programs that are not allowed to do that either or do programs really not care so long as they make money to cover the costs of a sites development?

If they own the content, they're allowed to do it. Everything on DTBabes was shot by me, it's exclusive, I own it. I could tell affiliates to go in and take whatever they wanted. I could also just go put it all up on pornbb etc., the usual result of that tactic.

Socks · 08-15-2009, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonovanTrent

If they own the content, they're allowed to do it. Everything on DTBabes was shot by me, it's exclusive, I own it. I could tell affiliates to go in and take whatever they wanted. I could also just go put it all up on pornbb etc., the usual result of that tactic.

You think your affiliates are the ones giving your shit away on pirate sites?

By chance, do you look over your shoulder a lot when you walk around town?

Barefootsies · 08-15-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster Advertising

Getting paid $50 on a $1 transaction the math just doesnt add up but everyone wants $1 trials and highest payouts but at the same time a lot of people are bitching about cross and upsells... It is quite ironic actually.

Barefootsies · 08-15-2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster Advertising

I have been checking through some of our ccbill stats for the past few weeks on Condom Cash and it appears that those affiliates sending the most sales only make up about 15% of our entire affiliate base and they also need the less amount of help and support but the affiliates sending 1 or 2 sales a week or month constantly want more content, new banners, more fhgs and other things.

This has always been the case.

Affiliates who make money make their own tools, HG's, banners, and shit. They take up the least amount of your time, and make you the most money.

On the flip side. No matter what program you talk to, it is almost always 10% of your affiliates make you 90% of the revenue. The rest are dead weight. Sucking up resources, and demanding more time and attention because they can't sell shit.

Webmaster Advertising · 08-15-2009, 03:24 PM

This is actually a really informative thread.

So based on what has been posted so far do you think an invite only affiliate program would work well? The reason i ask is that we are currently working on such a program and will only be inviting our top 50 affiliates from Condom Cash to join it, after that is anyone wants to join they are going to have to proove that they can make sales.

I thought this was an interesting way of kulling the herd when it came to over exposure of sites and content and it sounds like based on the posting in here that it would be a good way to curb some of the things that take up a lot of program owners time.

Barefootsies · 08-15-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster Advertising

So based on what has been posted so far do you think an invite only affiliate program would work well?

Yes.

Affiliates prove their worth, or they are not an affiliate of yours.

This is how it should have always been. You show me something, and THEN you can be an affiliate for your program, get access to members areas, free content, hosting, support, etc..

It is nice to see this industry finally raising the bar to entry.

Forkbeard · 08-15-2009, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Affiliates prove their worth, or they are not an affiliate of yours.

This is how it should have always been. You show me something, and THEN you can be an affiliate for your program, get access to members areas, free content, hosting, support, etc..

I find this attitude rather hilarious.

Notwithstanding the counterarguments in this thread, programs need affiliate traffic rather worse than affiliates need any one particular program. I've got a dozen programs I could be promoting for every one that I actually am promoting. Make me jump through too many hoops -- well, any hoops actually -- and I'll just promote somebody who is less of a hassle to deal with.

Folks who try to go exclusive with their affiliate programs will just lose the traffic and sales to other programs. There's probably an exception to this rule for the top 5% of programs -- the guys everybody with a brain wants to be promoting -- but the vast majority of programs aren't that distinguished. Most are pushing their luck when they ask a non-standard question on their affiliate sign-up form.

weekly · 08-15-2009, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forkbeard

I find this attitude rather hilarious.

Notwithstanding the counterarguments in this thread, programs need affiliate traffic rather worse than affiliates need any one particular program. I've got a dozen programs I could be promoting for every one that I actually am promoting. Make me jump through too many hoops -- well, any hoops actually -- and I'll just promote somebody who is less of a hassle to deal with.

Folks who try to go exclusive with their affiliate programs will just lose the traffic and sales to other programs. There's probably an exception to this rule for the top 5% of programs -- the guys everybody with a brain wants to be promoting -- but the vast majority of programs aren't that distinguished. Most are pushing their luck when they ask a non-standard question on their affiliate sign-up form.

Is this the tail wagging the dog?

Barefootsies · 08-15-2009, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weekly

Is this the tail wagging the dog?

Nah, it's a toots who thinks he can promote any content with his traffic and be a success.

DonovanTrent · 08-15-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socks

You think your affiliates are the ones giving your shit away on pirate sites?

By chance, do you look over your shoulder a lot when you walk around town?

I never look over my shoulder. I know, though, that when an affiliate program gives open affiliate access to its members areas, the word does get around. It's not real affiliates who give content away. It's the ones who sign up as affiliates with no intention of ever promoting the site.

Barefootsies · 08-15-2009, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonovanTrent

It's not real affiliates who give content away. It's the ones who sign up as affiliates with no intention of ever promoting the site.

Have you ever hung out for any period of time on a free porn surfer forum? How do you think the biggest contributors get all the wonderful porn they provide for free.

They sign up as an affiliate and then post it all over the forum(s). This is, and has been, common practice for years. There was every some rough guide on how to get access I remember seeing 2 years ago.

Claim to be an affiliate. Get password. Download everything. Viola.

weekly · 08-15-2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonovanTrent

I never look over my shoulder. I know, though, that when an affiliate program gives open affiliate access to its members areas, the word does get around. It's not real affiliates who give content away. It's the ones who sign up as affiliates with no intention of ever promoting the site.

A common scam....I make sure they have history in my area before I accept them to promote my business.

weekly · 08-15-2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Have you ever hung out for any period of time on a free porn surfer forum? How do you think the biggest contributors get all the wonderful porn they provide for free.

They sign up as an affiliate and then post it all over the forum(s). This is, and has been, common practice for years. There was every some rough guide on how to get access I remember seeing 2 years ago.

Claim to be an affiliate. Get password. Download everything. Viola.

all to save 20 bucks. LOLOLOL....

Barefootsies · 08-15-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weekly

all to save 20 bucks. LOLOLOL....

Agreed.

Funny the lengths people will go to just so they do not have to pay for porn.

Just like people trying to hack into your site for a week instead of just paying the $14.95. Kinda ridiculous if you ask me, but whatever. Guess everyone has their line they will not cross.

Some will not pay for porn. Just like some people, no matter how disgusted with this country, will not vote.

DonovanTrent · 08-15-2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weekly

all to save 20 bucks. LOLOLOL....

Yes. All to save $20.

Nicky · 08-15-2009, 09:05 PM

It's worth exactley what you have to pay to get It.

DonovanTrent · 08-15-2009, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicky

It's worth exactley what you have to pay to get It.

That's it, I'm repricing my paysites to $89.95 per week.

Nicky · 08-15-2009, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonovanTrent

That's it, I'm repricing my paysites to $89.95 per week.

It ain't worth It

Oranges and apples

Barefootsies · 08-15-2009, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicky

It ain't worth It

Oranges and apples

Forkbeard · 08-16-2009, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Nah, it's a toots who thinks he can promote any content with his traffic and be a success.

Hardly. You're being deliberately obtuse now.

Not "any" content -- you know as well as I do that every traffic source has to be matched to appropriate content. In your niche, that might well mean there's only one or two programs that are worth a damn; and I know of other such niches. (I don't know yours very well.) But for most niches, there's an array of choices. And if one of them is too big of a pain in the ass to deal with, well, any of the others will work nearly as well.

This is Porn 101 stuff that you obviously know. So I think you're down to just being argumentative in this thread.

weekly · 08-16-2009, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donovantrent

that's it, i'm repricing my paysites to $89.95 per week.

lol.......

DonovanTrent · 08-16-2009, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicky

It ain't worth It

Oranges and apples

Sarcasm... lost on the Swedes.

Barefootsies · 08-16-2009, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonovanTrent

Sarcasm... lost on the Swedes.

seanchai · 08-16-2009, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d-null

a sale is a sale, if the affiliate hadn't sent that sale, then the percentage earned by the sponsor is zero percent, so there is nothing wrong with the 50% arrangement

Not if that customer would have found the site eventually anyway, either through the site's own promotions or it's just well known.
This happens especially in smaller niches.

weekly · 08-16-2009, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seanchai

Not if that customer would have found the site eventually anyway, either through the site's own promotions or it's just well known.
This happens especially in smaller niches.

Niche sites can be cannibalized by affiliate traffic. Its a balancing act. On the other hand, it takes a special webmaster to be able to convert niche and understand where that traffic is and they are only good for your business if they are finding this traffic where you can't. Niche is a small, but profitable end of the biz.

Barefootsies · 08-16-2009, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weekly

it takes a special webmaster to be able to convert niche

Exactamundo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by weekly

and understand where that traffic is and they are only good for your business if they are finding this traffic where you can't.

Agreed. That is the benefit of an invite only program. You already know that they are a niche traffic source. Also that they will make some conversions on their traffic, and your content.

Let's face it. If they can't convert or sell it. It is a pointless partnership. It's better to match affiliates with programs where their shit can convert and minimize frustration and aggravation.

Most people in this industry are completely clueless when it comes to converting niche traffic (unless running niche sites), or even understanding it for that matter. I do not know how many people I have had hit me up for traffic deals and what volume like you would get from another mainstream porn niche.

It does not exist in volume, and, quality.

weekly · 08-16-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Exactamundo.

Agreed. That is the benefit of an invite only program. You already know that they are a niche traffic source. Also that they will make some conversions on their traffic, and your content.

Let's face it. If they can't convert or sell it. It is a pointless partnership. It's better to match affiliates with programs where their shit can convert and minimize frustration and aggravation.

Most people in this industry are completely clueless when it comes to converting niche traffic (unless running niche sites), or even understanding it for that matter. I do not know how many people I have had hit me up for traffic deals and what volume like you would get from another mainstream porn niche.

It does not exist in volume, and, quality.

This is a situation where traffic becomes virtually worthless.

xxxjay · 08-16-2009, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

A number of programs are moving their traffic generation in-house.

This reduces the importance of this industry's affiliate model and their position for the future. It also makes programs less dependent on paying the ransom traffic 'whales' are demanding, and have been, over the years.

Short answer,... it probably varies from program to program. Their importance is diminishing. Especially as more affiliates find it hard to make conversions and remain competitive in the 2009 market place.

Our biggest account is our house account, always has been - it accounts for 40% or more of sales.

Nicky · 08-16-2009, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonovanTrent

Sarcasm... lost on the Swedes.

yep I'm incapable of It, all the posts on this board really proves It.

Or were you being sarcastic now? Argh

weekly · 08-16-2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxjay

Our biggest account is our house account, always has been - it accounts for 40% or more of sales.

That makes total sense to me. Do you think it is actually cheaper than affiliate marketing or is it a matter of control over your own business?

charlie3273 · 08-16-2009, 02:48 PM

Well I am not sure how much value keyword slutty is but if I am not your affiliate then your program might not be seen. If the surfer punches in that word. It is a tuff industry . Big pps will kill your program though for sure. I am more than happy with 50/50 rev share.

xxxjay · 08-16-2009, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weekly

That makes total sense to me. Do you think it is actually cheaper than affiliate marketing or is it a matter of control over your own business?

Both. I am alwasy looking for new ways to expand the house traffic too.

Niktamer · 08-16-2009, 04:33 PM

interesting read.. keep the infos comming

weekly · 08-16-2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie3273

Well I am not sure how much value keyword slutty is but if I am not your affiliate then your program might not be seen. If the surfer punches in that word. It is a tuff industry . Big pps will kill your program though for sure. I am more than happy with 50/50 rev share.

Its a word....

Agent 488 · 08-16-2009, 06:09 PM

everyone here is just trying to shore up their own preconceptions here - there is no discussion let alone learning ...

weekly · 08-16-2009, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by budsbabes

everyone here is just trying to shore up their own preconceptions here - there is no discussion let alone learning ...

I spose you are not paying attention then.

Barefootsies · 08-16-2009, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weekly

I spose you are not paying attention then.

weekly · 08-16-2009, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Personally, I have learned a bunch....more than most threads here. I am impressed. The piss has been pretty lame and minimal.

Barefootsies · 08-16-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weekly

Personally, I have learned a bunch....more than most threads here. I am impressed. The piss has been pretty lame and minimal.

Agreed.

Nice to see an occasional business thread make it through and stay on point.

weekly · 08-17-2009, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Agreed.

Nice to see an occasional business thread make it through and stay on point.

It could be we have run out of business people...lol

08-15-2009, 12:27 PM	#101
Barefootsies Choice is an Illusion Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Land of Obama Posts: 42,635	100 Good Business Discussions __________________ Should You Email Your Members? Link1 \| Link2 \| Link3 Enough Said. "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

08-15-2009, 12:33 PM	#104
alias aliasx Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 19,010	High $ or per trial PPS generally do seem to entail cross-sales. __________________ https://porncorporation.com

08-15-2009, 09:05 PM	#125
Nicky Judge Jury and Executioner Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 30,069	It's worth exactley what you have to pay to get It. __________________ gfynicky @ gmail.com

08-16-2009, 02:48 PM	#140
charlie3273 Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: reno,nv sometimes Posts: 376	Well I am not sure how much value keyword slutty is but if I am not your affiliate then your program might not be seen. If the surfer punches in that word. It is a tuff industry . Big pps will kill your program though for sure. I am more than happy with 50/50 rev share. __________________ Super Slutty That is my website of many I have.

08-16-2009, 04:33 PM	#142
Niktamer Lord of the Leads Industry Role: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 3,021	interesting read.. keep the infos comming __________________

08-15-2009, 01:46 PM	#106
Webmaster Advertising So Fucking Banned Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,360	From what im told it is virtually impossible for PPS programs to operate without cross and upsells think about it....... Getting paid $50 on a $1 transaction the math just doesnt add up but everyone wants $1 trials and highest payouts but at the same time a lot of people are bitching about cross and upsells... It is quite ironic actually.

08-15-2009, 01:50 PM	#107
Webmaster Advertising So Fucking Banned Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,360	In terms of affiliate traffics worth i think it should be paid for one a sliding scale, if you send 1-10 signups you make 40%, if you send 11-20 you make 50% if you send 21-30 you make 60% etc. Starting off at a minimum payout level of at least 50% for unproven affiliates makes no sense to me at all (i havent been doing this that long though). I have been checking through some of our ccbill stats for the past few weeks on Condom Cash and it appears that those affiliates sending the most sales only make up about 15% of our entire affiliate base and they also need the less amount of help and support but the affiliates sending 1 or 2 sales a week or month constantly want more content, new banners, more fhgs and other things. One other thing that i dont quite understand about the porn business is that there is no contractual obligation for an affiliate to keep sending traffic so with that in mind they could rape a program of all their content and promo tools diluting their effectiveness for other affiliates then once they stop working, move on to another program and do the same thing. With a sliding scale based pay scale there may actually end up being some kind of loyalty to a program for an affiliate i know in ccbill if you send us more sales you get paid more automatically because that is how it has been setup.

08-15-2009, 03:24 PM	#114
Webmaster Advertising So Fucking Banned Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,360	This is actually a really informative thread. So based on what has been posted so far do you think an invite only affiliate program would work well? The reason i ask is that we are currently working on such a program and will only be inviting our top 50 affiliates from Condom Cash to join it, after that is anyone wants to join they are going to have to proove that they can make sales. I thought this was an interesting way of kulling the herd when it came to over exposure of sites and content and it sounds like based on the posting in here that it would be a good way to curb some of the things that take up a lot of program owners time.

08-16-2009, 06:09 PM	#144
Agent 488 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 22,511	everyone here is just trying to shore up their own preconceptions here - there is no discussion let alone learning ...