A Serious US Health Care Question - GoFuckYourself.com

BFT3K · 09-20-2009, 08:24 AM

What makes health care more important than the following?...

Your local police dept.

Your local firefighters.

National Defense (army, navy, etc).

Taxes cover the cost for all of the above. Will universal health care raise your taxes? Of course it will, but so what? It is the right thing to do. Will health care raise your taxes MORE than the greedy insurance policy rates we are currently facing? No fucking way!

In other words, why should large corporate interests have the right to profit off of this basic human necessity?

When your house is on fire you call your tax funded fire department, and they rush right over to help you. They don't send you a bill, or negotiate the value of your property.

Why is health care so different?

Is it because the health insurance companies contribute shitloads of money towards political campaigns? Is it because the health insurance CEOs make MILLIONS per year, and are fighting like hell to keep our money?

Is there some sort of biased value system in place that allows us to believe a heart specialist is worth 1000 times more cost to society than a cop responding to a dangerous local shootout?

Universal health care makes so much sense it is insane to me that this is even a debate! This is where the Dems should have started their argument, and then MAYBE met halfway with a single payer or public option compromise. They are already too far out in the middle to find a decent halfway point... but I guess that's what happens when both sides are paid off, and we allow our country to be TOTALLY controlled by big corporations.

nation-x · 09-20-2009, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

What makes health care more important than the following?...

Your local police dept.

Your local firefighters.

National Defense (army, navy, etc).

Taxes cover the cost for all of the above. Will free health care raise your taxes? Of course it will, but so what? It is the right thing to do. Will health care raise your taxes MORE than the greedy insurance policy rates we are currently facing? No fucking way!

In other words, why should large corporate interests have the right to profit off of this basic human necessity?

When your house is on fire you call your tax funded fire department, and they rush right over to help you. They don't send you a bill, or negotiate the value of your property.

Why is health care so different?

Is it because the health insurance companies contribute shitloads of money towards political campaigns? Is it because the health insurance CEOs make MILLIONS per year, and are fighting like hell to keep our money?

Is there some sort of biased value system in place that allows us to believe a heart specialist is worth 1000 times more cost to society than a cop responding to a dangerous local shootout?

Universal health care makes so much sense it is insane to me that this is even a debate! This is where the Dems should have started their argument, and then MAYBE met halfway with a single payer or public option compromise. They are already too far out in the middle to find a decent halfway point... but I guess that's what happens when both sides are paid off, and we allow our country to be TOTALLY controlled by big corporations.

and a peckerpass!

directfiesta · 09-20-2009, 09:38 AM

.. because Insurrance company profit from it and contribute to both sides ....

Army/Navy/Air Force ???? soon to be the same ... Actually, in both Iraq & Afghanistan, there are more private " contractors " then US forces ....

Joshua G · 09-20-2009, 09:42 AM

if the government could run an agency without packing it with unions & regulations, maybe the public would be less hesitant about the public option.

There is a reason fedex is doing fine but the post office is going bankrupt.

'mo · 09-20-2009, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshgirls

if the government could run an agency without packing it with unions & regulations, maybe the public would be less hesitant about the public option.

There is a reason fedex is doing fine but the post office is going bankrupt.

I bet you momma likes her medicare.

L-Pink · 09-20-2009, 09:45 AM

US healthcare is based on "for profit businesses" ... the insurance companies, paying doctors and hospitals for their services. Sounds simple.

In practice however these insurance companies only motivation is profit NOT health care. As a result they only insure those they know they can make a profit from ... those less likely to need medical care.

Insurance companies are allowed to discriminate based on age, health, even the health of those related to you.

So what happens to those that were never insurable or those that are now not profitable enough to insure?

You young guys ..... I know the feeling of thinking you will never get sick or die. Well right now you probably won't, that's why they are taking your money. When they stop taking your money, what then? Or if you can't pay for some reason?

IllTestYourGirls · 09-20-2009, 10:13 AM

Health INSURANCE is not an necessity. Health CARE is. Dont blame the insurance companies for fooling stupid Americans into thinking they NEED insurance to pay their bills. Then fooling stupid Americans into thinking the government should make regulations that would cause the rise of the insurance rates, then fooling stupid Americans into thinking insurance companies are the problem not the regulations that the government set up, then fooling stupid Americans into thinking the only solution is to make the problem bigger by getting government into health INSURANCE in a larger scale after failing medicare.

REGULATE insurance. To bad people have forgotten the real meaning of government regulation: "to make regular". How regular is the buying of health insurance over state lines?

nation-x · 09-20-2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

REGULATE insurance. To bad people have forgotten the real meaning of government regulation: "to make regular". How regular is the buying of health insurance over state lines?

Thanks for your completely incorrect and meaningless definition

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dictionary

reg⋅u⋅late
–verb (used with object), -lat⋅ed, -lat⋅ing.
1. to control or direct by a rule, principle, method, etc.: to regulate household expenses.
2. to adjust to some standard or requirement, as amount, degree, etc.: to regulate the temperature.
3. to adjust so as to ensure accuracy of operation: to regulate a watch.
4. to put in good order: to regulate the digestion.

Here is another one you might need to learn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dictionary

in⋅sur⋅ance
–noun
1. the act, system, or business of insuring property, life, one's person, etc., against loss or harm arising in specified contingencies, as fire, accident, death, disablement, or the like, in consideration of a payment proportionate to the risk involved.

IllTestYourGirls · 09-20-2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nation-x

Thanks for your completely incorrect and meaningless definition

Here is another one you might need to learn

Point in case. People who think they know something when they dont and try to prove it using something that does not apply.

In the 18th century "regulate" generally meant "to make regular"

nation-x · 09-20-2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

Point in case. People who think they know something when they dont and try to prove it using something that does not apply.

In the 18th century "regulate" generally meant "to make regular"

So you live in the 18th century and use the intertubes to post from the past?

We live in the 21st century now... thx for playing dumb.

IllTestYourGirls · 09-20-2009, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nation-x

So you live in the 18th century and use the intertubes to post from the past?

We live in the 21st century now... thx for playing dumb.

No but thats when the constitution was written. You know that thing congress/the president took an oath to up hold and defend?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerce_Clause

Come on now your smarter than this

nation-x · 09-20-2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

No but thats when the constitution was written. You know that thing congress/the president took an oath to up hold and defend?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerce_Clause

Come on now your smarter than this

I was not aware that the framers possessed omnipotent powers that provided them with the all seeing knowledge necessary to draft a document so strong that it would never require amendment or clarification. *snark*

If you want the honest truth... any of the framers would view our current federal system an affront to the people. The fact that the Supreme Court is currently hearing a case that would give even more rights to corporations as if they are individual citizens is proof that we have strayed a long way from 1776.

Grapesoda · 09-20-2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshgirls

if the government could run an agency without packing it with unions & regulations, maybe the public would be less hesitant about the public option.

There is a reason fedex is doing fine but the post office is going bankrupt.

you can get fired from fedex for poor performance

IllTestYourGirls · 09-20-2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nation-x

I was not aware that the framers possessed omnipotent powers that provided them with the all seeing knowledge necessary to draft a document so strong that it would never require amendment or clarification. *snark*

If you want the honest truth... any of the framers would view our current federal system an affront to the people. The fact that the Supreme Court is currently hearing a case that would give even more rights to corporations as if they are individual citizens is proof that we have strayed a long way from 1776.

Of course thats not what Im saying. But it is no coincidence that the further away from strict constitutional government and more to bigger and bigger government the more things have been screwed up.

ToplistBlog_Com · 09-20-2009, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L-Pink

US healthcare is based on "for profit businesses" ... the insurance companies, paying doctors and hospitals for their services. Sounds simple.

In practice however these insurance companies only motivation is profit NOT health care. As a result they only insure those they know they can make a profit from ... those less likely to need medical care.

Insurance companies are allowed to discriminate based on age, health, even the health of those related to you.

So what happens to those that were never insurable or those that are now not profitable enough to insure?

You young guys ..... I know the feeling of thinking you will never get sick or die. Well right now you probably won't, that's why they are taking your money. When they stop taking your money, what then? Or if you can't pay for some reason?

nation-x · 09-20-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

Of course thats not what Im saying. But it is no coincidence that the further away from strict constitutional government and more to bigger and bigger government the more things have been screwed up.

Evolution is a human condition... even in their government and social interaction. If you consider how much the English language has changed since 1776 it is amazing really.

The Heron · 09-20-2009, 02:53 PM

Fighting Fires requires spraying water.
Fighting Crime requires a guy with a gun.
Neither require innovation like healthcare does and what promotes innovation? Competition!

Government should only provide public services that the private sector would ignore for economical reasons.

nation-x · 09-20-2009, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Heron

Fighting Fires requires spraying water.
Fighting Crime requires a guy with a gun.
Neither require innovation like healthcare does and what promotes innovation? Competition!

Government should only provide public services that the private sector would ignore for economical reasons.

How exactly is what you are saying should be done any different than what is already being done? Noone has prevented any companies from competing with each other in individual states but there are great number of states with a single company that holds 80-90% of the market. What exactly do you think will happen over time if we only open up state lines? Those same monopoly companies will crush their competition and develop even larger monopolies. That argument is simply ridiculous on it's face.

BFT3K · 09-20-2009, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Heron

Fighting Fires requires spraying water.
Fighting Crime requires a guy with a gun.
Neither require innovation like healthcare does and what promotes innovation? Competition!

Government should only provide public services that the private sector would ignore for economical reasons.

I don't think anyone can say, with even the smallest amount of sincerity, that the US military is stagnant. All they do is innovate, create, compete, and do their best to stay on or ahead of the cutting edge.

Police cars, guns, law enforcement equipment, and fire fighting solutions, are also frequently updated and always impoved upon.

Govt run programs are not always inefficient.

Joshua G · 09-20-2009, 04:55 PM

what difference does it make? one party hates government & will just run it into the ground, the other is so in love with government that every life problem can be solved with government. The only common ground they have is they both whore themselves to megacorporations, the true rulers of this country. either way we're screwed, except for the rich.

BFT3K · 09-20-2009, 07:36 PM

A bit off topic, but quite important nevertheless...

Wacky Waiving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man!

https://youtube.com/watch?v=onZHpGYFPls

BFT3K · 09-21-2009, 07:43 AM

Bump for some Monday replies.

Tom_PM · 09-21-2009, 08:14 AM

Vote out all incumbents. It's the only way to semi-sever the payola/lobbyist efforts. Uproot the ingrained ones, good and bad. Vote them all out regardless of party. A few cycles of this and it should be refreshed for better or worse. Could it get worse? Dont think so.

BFT3K · 09-21-2009, 07:04 PM

Time for a 3rd party!

thegemini · 09-24-2009, 08:43 AM

For all those who think that public healthcare is better... It's bullshit.
I live in fucking country where theoritically health care is "free" (doesn't matter if you're unemployed, retired whatever)
All of this bullshit is financed by some sort of tax. Tax which takes away about 7% of income of every employee.
Unemployed doesn't pay anything.
Farmers "because are poor" they also don't pay for health care.
So basically sounds cool. Doesn't matter what you do, you have "free" health care.

But for real it really sucks. If you earn 10000$/month you end up within the same line as a guy which earns 300$ and a guy which is unemployed and doesn't pay a dime for health care.
If you want go to specialist doctor you have to make a reservation around 3-12 months earlier!!!
The same applies for most tests (like USG, MRI, and so on). Not to mention that lot of test isn't covered by gov. 'health care'.

So if want to go to doctor sooner you have to make private/payable visit.
Or you might end up dieing waiting for a doctor appointment. So basically the more you earn the more money you are wasting, and if you want use some services you have to pay additionally or wait at endless lines.

In some regions of my country general doctors (I'm not sure how it's called in english - I mean doctor which you visit when you got flu, get cold or something similar which not require specialist like cardiologist) - you have to wait over a week! - Think about that you get a flu, and wait over a week to see doctor. Really awesome!

Some of you living USA, might not realise how precious you're freedom is. I'd really like to have ability to not to insure, or choose my insurance company, Instead of paying tons of money which only are used by poor people or wasted by administration.

thegemini · 09-24-2009, 08:54 AM

And one more thing...
Not a long ago in polish TV was a story about a women which was refused to cure cancer, because "statisticly she has too low chances to survive"
There is some rule, that if you got more then 5 lymph nodes infected, then you are not cured at all. Despite that there are chances to survive, but gvt decided they are too low, to spend a lot of money for someone like that. And it totally doesn't matter how much did you payed for so called insurance/tax. If you want to get cured you have pay for the therapy by yourself.

Tom_PM · 09-24-2009, 08:57 AM

Yeah well in America, health care costs rises 4 times as fast as incomes. PLUS Insurance claims are denied 1 out of 5 times. So it's game over. It's literally impossible to sustain.

edit oh and all the people here who dont have insurance or arent even legal citizens get in the exact same lines as millionaires and working poor (middle class they call em to make it sound like there's a lot worse). Taxes pay for the welfare already, it'll be no different in the end.

09-20-2009, 08:24 AM	#1
BFT3K Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Narnia Posts: 10,764	A Serious US Health Care Question What makes health care more important than the following?... Your local police dept. Your local firefighters. National Defense (army, navy, etc). Taxes cover the cost for all of the above. Will universal health care raise your taxes? Of course it will, but so what? It is the right thing to do. Will health care raise your taxes MORE than the greedy insurance policy rates we are currently facing? No fucking way! In other words, why should large corporate interests have the right to profit off of this basic human necessity? When your house is on fire you call your tax funded fire department, and they rush right over to help you. They don't send you a bill, or negotiate the value of your property. Why is health care so different? Is it because the health insurance companies contribute shitloads of money towards political campaigns? Is it because the health insurance CEOs make MILLIONS per year, and are fighting like hell to keep our money? Is there some sort of biased value system in place that allows us to believe a heart specialist is worth 1000 times more cost to society than a cop responding to a dangerous local shootout? Universal health care makes so much sense it is insane to me that this is even a debate! This is where the Dems should have started their argument, and then MAYBE met halfway with a single payer or public option compromise. They are already too far out in the middle to find a decent halfway point... but I guess that's what happens when both sides are paid off, and we allow our country to be TOTALLY controlled by big corporations. Last edited by BFT3K; 09-20-2009 at 08:27 AM..

09-20-2009, 09:38 AM	#3
directfiesta Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 29,659	.. because Insurrance company profit from it and contribute to both sides .... Army/Navy/Air Force ???? soon to be the same ... Actually, in both Iraq & Afghanistan, there are more private " contractors " then US forces .... __________________ I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT ! But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

09-20-2009, 10:13 AM	#7
IllTestYourGirls Ah My Balls Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Under the gold leaf ICQ 388-454-421 Posts: 14,311	Health INSURANCE is not an necessity. Health CARE is. Dont blame the insurance companies for fooling stupid Americans into thinking they NEED insurance to pay their bills. Then fooling stupid Americans into thinking the government should make regulations that would cause the rise of the insurance rates, then fooling stupid Americans into thinking insurance companies are the problem not the regulations that the government set up, then fooling stupid Americans into thinking the only solution is to make the problem bigger by getting government into health INSURANCE in a larger scale after failing medicare. REGULATE insurance. To bad people have forgotten the real meaning of government regulation: "to make regular". How regular is the buying of health insurance over state lines? __________________

09-20-2009, 04:55 PM	#20
Joshua G dumb libs love censorship Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 8,198	what difference does it make? one party hates government & will just run it into the ground, the other is so in love with government that every life problem can be solved with government. The only common ground they have is they both whore themselves to megacorporations, the true rulers of this country. either way we're screwed, except for the rich. Last edited by Joshua G; 09-20-2009 at 04:57 PM..

09-21-2009, 08:14 AM	#23
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	Vote out all incumbents. It's the only way to semi-sever the payola/lobbyist efforts. Uproot the ingrained ones, good and bad. Vote them all out regardless of party. A few cycles of this and it should be refreshed for better or worse. Could it get worse? Dont think so. __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

09-20-2009, 09:42 AM	#4
Joshua G dumb libs love censorship Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 8,198	if the government could run an agency without packing it with unions & regulations, maybe the public would be less hesitant about the public option. There is a reason fedex is doing fine but the post office is going bankrupt.

09-20-2009, 09:45 AM	#6
L-Pink working on my tan Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Florida/Kentucky Posts: 39,151	US healthcare is based on "for profit businesses" ... the insurance companies, paying doctors and hospitals for their services. Sounds simple. In practice however these insurance companies only motivation is profit NOT health care. As a result they only insure those they know they can make a profit from ... those less likely to need medical care. Insurance companies are allowed to discriminate based on age, health, even the health of those related to you. So what happens to those that were never insurable or those that are now not profitable enough to insure? You young guys ..... I know the feeling of thinking you will never get sick or die. Well right now you probably won't, that's why they are taking your money. When they stop taking your money, what then? Or if you can't pay for some reason?

09-20-2009, 02:53 PM	#17
The Heron Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Michigan Posts: 4,487	Fighting Fires requires spraying water. Fighting Crime requires a guy with a gun. Neither require innovation like healthcare does and what promotes innovation? Competition! Government should only provide public services that the private sector would ignore for economical reasons.

09-20-2009, 07:36 PM	#21
BFT3K Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Narnia Posts: 10,764	A bit off topic, but quite important nevertheless... Wacky Waiving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man! https://youtube.com/watch?v=onZHpGYFPls

09-21-2009, 07:43 AM	#22
BFT3K Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Narnia Posts: 10,764	Bump for some Monday replies.

09-21-2009, 07:04 PM	#24
BFT3K Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Narnia Posts: 10,764	Time for a 3rd party!

09-24-2009, 08:43 AM	#25
thegemini Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 32	For all those who think that public healthcare is better... It's bullshit. I live in fucking country where theoritically health care is "free" (doesn't matter if you're unemployed, retired whatever) All of this bullshit is financed by some sort of tax. Tax which takes away about 7% of income of every employee. Unemployed doesn't pay anything. Farmers "because are poor" they also don't pay for health care. So basically sounds cool. Doesn't matter what you do, you have "free" health care. But for real it really sucks. If you earn 10000$/month you end up within the same line as a guy which earns 300$ and a guy which is unemployed and doesn't pay a dime for health care. If you want go to specialist doctor you have to make a reservation around 3-12 months earlier!!! The same applies for most tests (like USG, MRI, and so on). Not to mention that lot of test isn't covered by gov. 'health care'. So if want to go to doctor sooner you have to make private/payable visit. Or you might end up dieing waiting for a doctor appointment. So basically the more you earn the more money you are wasting, and if you want use some services you have to pay additionally or wait at endless lines. In some regions of my country general doctors (I'm not sure how it's called in english - I mean doctor which you visit when you got flu, get cold or something similar which not require specialist like cardiologist) - you have to wait over a week! - Think about that you get a flu, and wait over a week to see doctor. Really awesome! Some of you living USA, might not realise how precious you're freedom is. I'd really like to have ability to not to insure, or choose my insurance company, Instead of paying tons of money which only are used by poor people or wasted by administration.

09-24-2009, 08:54 AM	#26
thegemini Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 32	And one more thing... Not a long ago in polish TV was a story about a women which was refused to cure cancer, because "statisticly she has too low chances to survive" There is some rule, that if you got more then 5 lymph nodes infected, then you are not cured at all. Despite that there are chances to survive, but gvt decided they are too low, to spend a lot of money for someone like that. And it totally doesn't matter how much did you payed for so called insurance/tax. If you want to get cured you have pay for the therapy by yourself.

09-24-2009, 08:57 AM	#27
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	Yeah well in America, health care costs rises 4 times as fast as incomes. PLUS Insurance claims are denied 1 out of 5 times. So it's game over. It's literally impossible to sustain. edit oh and all the people here who dont have insurance or arent even legal citizens get in the exact same lines as millionaires and working poor (middle class they call em to make it sound like there's a lot worse). Taxes pay for the welfare already, it'll be no different in the end. __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar. Last edited by Tom_PM; 09-24-2009 at 08:59 AM..