Quagmire

personal drama, not business drama as far as I am concerned.

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_Richard_

hope everything works out

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fmltube

maybe they should just blow one another and hit the reset button and go separate ways.

Tjeezers

Lets hope things will be resolved
2010 just started, get busy with business!

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candyflip

Maybe we're not seeing the same thing. Business took client's money and did not keep their end of the bargain. Has tried to weasel out of refunding all his money, while acknowledging that a refund was deserved (he offered half back). Then business has the nerve to bring the client's mental medical history into the mix. Then pulls the fake lawyer card, all while basically saying fuck him and his money, there's nothing he can do so I'm keeping it.

I would hope that most people would take the same attitude I have.

Not only do I think pr0 is a scammer, based on what both parties have said...I think he's a scumbag, lowlife who saw an opportunity to take advantage of someone and didn't manage to get away with it.

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fmltube

»Rob Content«

Wouldn't the proper thing to do is to give back the retard his money. Now i'm not calling Nysus a retard, but from all of pr0's posts he's really beating down the "fact" how mentally unstable Nysus is. Would it not make sense to say "hey this guy is basically a head case, totally mental, It's not right to take his money?"

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Agent 488

i think what could solve this problem if someone posted a screenshot of inhouse stats fron the worst converting dating program in history.

candyflip

If you're not a lowlife, yes.

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quiet

lol 8 char

baddog

Amusing.

Oh, and Nysus has been around [and in the biz] for a very long time.

datatank

I am very shocked how many people are insinuating that the stats Pr0 posts are not 100% real

pocketkangaroo

I would say yes, that would be the most appropriate response. But times are tough I guess and people really need money.

BlueDude

That's not a valid reason why you should be allowed to keep the money.

V_RocKs

We should get high together.

pocketkangaroo

Of course not, but that's a reason why someone wouldn't pay back a client for work not done.

candyflip

I don't think whether they were real or not was ever in question.

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Quagmire

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danclips

is anybody sitting here?

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chupachups

watch my popcorn dude!!

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Nysus

I have more to post, much more to post - but I felt I needed to clear up the lies / half-truths that pr0 was posting about what happened.

History via Email Correspondance

The non-bullshit version. If you want to read the bullshit version, refer to pr0's posts. Otherwise read below:

11/5/09 - Employee contacts me, introduces himself
11/6/09 - I reply with some additional login details that were missing from my original file I sent pr0
11/13/09 - Employee tells me everything is laid out and ready to go - doing installs that weekend
11/16/09 - Employee says he's uploading and installing at the moment
11/20/09 - Everything has been friendly up until this point.
- I send an email to Employee:

"Been over two weeks now but haven't seen anything yet?"

I was giving benefit of the doubt that things were just about to be setup and all pre-setup stuff had actually been done (as the employee had told me over these 2 weeks), and that sites will start to actually be setup soon (as the employee told me).

11/26/09 - 6 days later: Employee supposedly sent 2 emails that I didn't receive. Said he had an update for me later that day (never got one).

This is 21 days later, and no work is online yet -- Deadline is in 9 days. Should I be a bit worried / concerned?

What turned my benefit of a doubt into realizing the progress was lies? What gave it away - he had just contacting me to deal with support / hosting issues 21 days into the project, that he supposedly dealt with in the 1st week of the project.

I think anyone in this situation would start getting irritated with all of the "I'm doing things," but just excuses so far, and nothing done.

I was also pissed off that the month's worth of work I assumed / expected I would be getting could only possibly be 9 or 10 days worth of work with the deadline coming.

21 days / 3 weeks into the project - and I call the employee on the excuses (via email), and forward a copy to pr0 so he's aware of it. This is 9 days before the 1 month deadline.

11/27/09 - Untouched Market / pr0 / William replies to me and says:

- If he finds out employee is making excuses he'll be fired, and replaced

- This is when he told me to forget about final payment (which was his profits [probably additional profits] - that he has been stating he never was trying to get, since of course he has been telling everyone he was so kindly doing this a favour [to get in on Owned.com].

- He told you all that I weaselled my way out of paying less, when in fact he stated himself I no longer had to pay it. This final payment also wasn't in the contract because I didn't overly trust him / or other contractors because of being fucked over so much (including with Owned.com which is why it's taking so long to get something good on it), and so he kept it out of the contract and said that if he fucked me then I wouldn't have to pay / wouldn't have to worry - and to me that was a good incentive for him to do a good job … so I felt more comfortable to send him money. And he was fine with this because he trusted me to pay him the remainder once work was completed.

- He reassures me that the employee or replacement will finish the job, and says other things to make me feel relaxed and good about things

- He tells me there will be no more excuses, no more delays, only progress. He apologizes that I ever had to write the email, and thanked me for CC'ing it to him.

11/28/09 - 4 weeks in -- First blogs get installed via hosting support request. They get auto-populated with RSS feed.

Sometime inbetween here I talk to him in messenger - he concludes the conversation / my concerns by telling me to have some more patience.

12/3/09 - 5 days before deadline. I send an email to pr0 / William reminding him that I have SEO hosting costs and a plan I need to stick to (that he knew about prior) in order for me to have money for my other project plans to move ahead. I tell him I am concerned, that there is need for concern based on lack of progress so far. And that he has had my money for almost a month with nothing done. I mention that support issues should have been all dealt within 5 days, not after 25 days. I end the email with "25 days is a lot of patience."

12/8/09 - This is the deadline date. Employee emails me. Basic Wordpress installs done on some more domains. Some with auto-populated content from RSS feeds; Wordpress installs done by hosting companies. Over half of the domains are still just domains. The rest of everything had very little time put into it.

What has been setup so far is basically nothing as to what was promised or expected or was discussed for what would be done - so please don't say "well he did work" - it's not even a small fraction of the work that was supposed to be done, and most of it was done by hosting company installs via quick support requests.

12/12/09 - 4 days past deadline. Still hearing excuses from employee. I email him saying I don't want to hear more excuses or reasons of things not being done. I describe the situation, and I state that this not being done fucks up my plans (that deadline pr0 knew was very important to meet, and that this shit was the exact stuff I was tired of dealing with; I shouldn't of having to be micro-managing pr0's employee either). I also state I don't trust what the employee is saying.

At this point I'm pissed off and irritated because I was lead on by the employee, and now pr0 for over a month, and .

Email conversation ends.

On to the message logs:

01/05/10 - NOTE: Project is 1 month overdue at this date.

Some point in-between this he sends a support request to have host setup Wordpress installs. He doesn't send them the proper information (he believed he did: but when I followed up, which he should of done instead of getting angry, he in fact didn't send them the proper information).

01/11/10 - I mentioned seeing this support request to him. He just blames the hosting company for being incompetent. He doesn't follow up with them, doesn't reply to the support request. I realize he's not taking this serious, and it's already been 2 months (1 month overdue) and basically no real work has been done, and to expect anything to get done any time soon by him, or properly done was wishful thinking.

In his replies he continues to insult me, calls me a nutjob, etc.. I send him a text message afterwards (because he went offline immediately after) that I'm contemplating asking for a full refund again (which he had already said he'd give me + that he'd to compensate me for the hosting costs, and for fucking over my other plans he knew about).

01/12/10 - He sends me message saying I weaselled my way into paying less (read above: not true, he offered that as part compensation). Says a lot of things to try to make me worry, including insults.. nutjob, mental instability, broke the contract, and that he'll see me in court… etc..

Getting $2,000 is worth my time and effort into putting time into stating my side / the non-bullshit version. I should sue him for defamation as well, and other costs.

Basically now I'm going to have expenses of another 2-3 or 4 months of hosting so I can get the domains setup as proper sites, and let them mature and earning revenue before I can sell.


I'm heading out to a club now… Check back for more tomorrow though.. I have a lot more to say. Including seeing what pr0 will say, or not say regarding this:

- Someone contacted me and asked me to post anonymously for them. They paid $5,000 to pr0 (William / Untouched Markets) 1 year ago, and no work has been done yet. They want to see what pr0 has to say about that.

I can't confirm it - but pr0 can deny this if it's not true - I'm fairly sure the person will post though then if he does deny it.

Matt

P.S. The dates should be mostly correct. If I mistyped them it's because it's 1:11 AM and it's a lot to sort through. I'll go over them to confirm them tomorrow though. And I'll be posting responses to what other people have said.

P.S.S. Thanks for everyone's support.

__________________
What name is pr0 / Untouched Markets using these days? Untouched Markets - pr0 - Refund My Money Now

Someone owes me $2,000 because they didn't do any work that was paid for *pointing at pr0 / William / UntouchedMarkets*

See http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/948258-untouchedmarkets-pr0-refund-money-post16744521.html and for more detailed see http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/948645-re-recent-bullshit-drama-explained-detail-pr0-untouched-markets.html

candyflip

pr0 is a straight up thief.

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StaceyJo

Good luck. ;)

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chupachups

I would say this rather a very good example of a proper "outsourcing clusterfuck". If you dont have 101% control over things this happens all the time. And yeah, pay according to performance/whats achieved and not upfront.

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GlobalCorp

Sure this isn't Michael Anthony Mijaro?

FrozenJag

I cant say I blame nysus for being upset after 14 days nothing had been done. IMO 2k for a months work is absolute full time wage for a "contractor". Meaning that this contractor should be on NO other jobs then nysus project. So in whats supposed to be 80 hours of full time work from this contractor, all that had been accomplished is having the host setup wordpress installs? Maybed a few rss feeds thrown in?

I think I can see how Nysus would be getting PISSED! Doesnt take mental problems to see that. Yes Pr0, I have multiple businesses and multiple employees, I know whats up and how hard it can be. Its your responsibility to keep on top of your workers and make sure things are getting done. What your employees do and act is a direct reflection on yourself Mr. Pr0

Something is fishy here and I hope these two guys can get to the bottom of it.

Nysus

I decided to copy / paste responses of people from the other threads (I posted the same response into) who read my full post. This thread I will keep updating with all relevant responses: http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/948645-re-recent-bullshit-drama-explained-detail-pr0-untouched-markets-post16753423.html


From http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/948258-untouchedmarkets-pr0-refund-money-post16753251.html -

will74's response was in reference to the following he quoted pr0 saying:

pr0 said: "Nysus is a well known nutjob, who's not even in adult. He's also "leaving adult"....which he was never in adult in the first place. *laughing*

ALL FALSE.....Pay no attention to the nut job behind the curtain."

pr0 said: "It's too bad I found out about your mental status from everyone in the biz, only after I offered to help you out."

pr0 said: "This was done as a favor for Nysus, who i have been a personal friend of, for over a year, offering him free hosting on my webair box with 250+ ip's, for almost a year now, giving him free consulting etc.

I did this project as a favor to him."






- I forgot to mention that the person who paid pr0 the $5,000 wanted me and has had no work done yet to say that they had already posted in the first thread I started (http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/948258-untouchedmarkets-pr0-refund-money-post16753251.html)

__________________
What name is pr0 / Untouched Markets using these days? Untouched Markets - pr0 - Refund My Money Now

Someone owes me $2,000 because they didn't do any work that was paid for *pointing at pr0 / William / UntouchedMarkets*

See http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/948258-untouchedmarkets-pr0-refund-money-post16744521.html and for more detailed see http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/948645-re-recent-bullshit-drama-explained-detail-pr0-untouched-markets.html

fatfoo

Defamation is a bad thing. There are 2 types of defamation:

1) Slander - this is defamation in spoken words

2) Libel - this is defamation is written words

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Deej

How many blogs were you having set up and populated with rss for this price?

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Nysus

The money amount pr0 mentioned (and breached contract by doing so) wasn't the full amount for full payment.

Also, pr0 mentioned a number of sites (he shouldn't have mentioned any) - but he exaggerated the number, as he has exaggerated everything else to try to make me look bad and him look good.

__________________
What name is pr0 / Untouched Markets using these days? Untouched Markets - pr0 - Refund My Money Now

Someone owes me $2,000 because they didn't do any work that was paid for *pointing at pr0 / William / UntouchedMarkets*

See http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/948258-untouchedmarkets-pr0-refund-money-post16744521.html and for more detailed see http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/948645-re-recent-bullshit-drama-explained-detail-pr0-untouched-markets.html

FrozenJag

I think ol dude should step up if there really was a problem.

Nysus

The person hasn't because they apparently didn't have a contract, and they don't pr0 to disclose private details - like he has shown to do with my project even when there's a contract. I agree though it would be better.

__________________
What name is pr0 / Untouched Markets using these days? Untouched Markets - pr0 - Refund My Money Now

Someone owes me $2,000 because they didn't do any work that was paid for *pointing at pr0 / William / UntouchedMarkets*

See http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/948258-untouchedmarkets-pr0-refund-money-post16744521.html and for more detailed see http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/948645-re-recent-bullshit-drama-explained-detail-pr0-untouched-markets.html

Deej

Well I assumed since you were disclosing everything else we could all hear the number of sites that were to be set up originally for a few thousand.

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dav3

hope you get your money back

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Nysus

What I have disclosed I was forced to do in order to try to minimize the defamatory comments and lies that pr0 / William / Untouched Markets said about me, and his half-truths and exaggerations about the situation.

__________________
What name is pr0 / Untouched Markets using these days? Untouched Markets - pr0 - Refund My Money Now

Someone owes me $2,000 because they didn't do any work that was paid for *pointing at pr0 / William / UntouchedMarkets*

See http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/948258-untouchedmarkets-pr0-refund-money-post16744521.html and for more detailed see http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/948645-re-recent-bullshit-drama-explained-detail-pr0-untouched-markets.html

Robocrop

holy fuck, this is getting serious, also shown from pr0's stats..he claims to makes 2k+ everyday...how fucking hard would it be to pay the sum back? I mean what would the loss of 1 days revenue feel? nothing compared to all the trash this thread has delivered.

chupachups

Hey Robo - did you get the scraper fixed yet?

//sorry for threadjack

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pocketkangaroo

You wouldn't take on a project of that size if you were making that every day. I believe the stats showed closer to $3000 a day which is over a million a year. Why the hell would you bother with a $2000 contract for Wordpress installs and other crap?

The answer is you wouldn't. The answer is that the person probably was bullshitting on stats and pretending to be an e-baller. This isn't the first time a GFYer will run around claiming to be rich and then end up screwing someone over for a much smaller amount. Remember that Jans Van Asterdam guy? Same thing going on.

If a guy is running around the board claiming to be making tons of money, he probably isn't.

pocketkangaroo

Lawyer is busy working out a deal with Pete-KT's PR staff.

d-null

lol at people actually believing stat "screenshots" posted on GFY

Nysus

Me too, and sooner rather than later. Or I will sue, and get more than what he currently owes me.

__________________
What name is pr0 / Untouched Markets using these days? Untouched Markets - pr0 - Refund My Money Now

Someone owes me $2,000 because they didn't do any work that was paid for *pointing at pr0 / William / UntouchedMarkets*

See http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/948258-untouchedmarkets-pr0-refund-money-post16744521.html and for more detailed see http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/948645-re-recent-bullshit-drama-explained-detail-pr0-untouched-markets.html

digitaldivas

I am also building my own network, and let me tell you, for a "one man band" it definitely takes time.

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...

Lassitor

I own a video production company and I hire a lot of contractors to shoot, edit and make graphics. Yes, some contractors do a crappy job, some don't even do the job or do it in a way that I have to hire someone to redo the project. I don't whine when these contractors are worthless, I just fix the problem and move on. I could take them to small claims court and win hands down, but the cost and time of court to win a judgement that will probably be impossible to collect is not worth it.

So some rules:
1. Only give the big jobs to those you have experience with.
2. For new contractors, check them out completely. Talk to more than one contractor about the project.
3. Set realistic milestones and payment schedules. If there looks like there is going to be a problem you will know really quick and can find someone else to take the project.
4. Never put your eggs in one basket. A contractor can hold your project hostage and demand outrageous fees.
5. Always get a second opinion. If a contractor tells you something and it does not sound right or you think you are getting the run-a-round then talk to someone who can look at the situation and give you an educated opinion.
6. This is business! never forget that.

My rules as a contractor:
1. understand the project completely.
2. set realist milestones and payment schedules
3. point out high risk milestones that could delay or kill the project.
4. make sure your client completely understands all cost of the project. Nobody likes to get hit with unexpected charges.
5. use an escrow system like elance to handle payments.
7. Document everything!
8. Never work on spec projects. This is a disaster waiting to happen.
9. never work for free.
10. Charge market rates, even to your friends. If they can get you to cutthroat yourself, then you will be their little bitch for everything.

chupachups

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MPGdevil

What happened to this guy? Did he go bankrupt? http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/920894-pr0s-summer-stats-post-dating-porn-fuck-recession.html

You say Nylus was a friend of yours but he has mental problems now. If that's really the case, whatever you think is right and wrong you have the reserve of strength to be the big guy here and pay him back the $2k which apparently he received nothing for.

Can't believe if the stats are really yours, that you weight $2k higher than your reputation. Because however this drama is twisted and turned it will come off as bad publicity, and all the name calling didn't help the case either.

I doubt many webmasters are still as impressed.

Pleasurepays

Nysus (the purportedly insane person) = offers well laid out, well thought out, detailed explanation that makes perfect sense

pr0 (the stand up, top notch guy) = offers only dodgy and contradictory explanations and was very quick with the personal attacks and its nothing but defensive

as a casual bystander - i would have to give Nysus the win.

will76

I stopped reading your initial post right there. There was no need to go any further. Things should have ended right there.

Just a little FYI advice to you. 8 days into the project, if the client does what you mentioned above, you better off sending money back and washing your hands of him and being done with it. Why would you continue to hold on to the money and try to make a deal work when the person flipped out after a week, breaks a contract, changes the terms of the deal, and talks shit about you... why continue trying to work with them? There is no way that is going to turn out good.

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will76

What does him "not being in adult" have to do with anything? If he is or isn't I don't see how that is relivent.

I never understand people trying to keep money when work is not rendered. The client might become rude or hostile, or simply impatient which in many cases they are right because it is taking to long. The person holding the money strings them along waiting for the client to "go off" on them, make a post etc... then the person holding money says I'm keeping it now because of the time and headaches you caused....

If the money was sent back from day 1 there would have been no time and headaches. The client just wanted the work done or money back. Send the money back and you never hear from them again. Fight with them and string them along and then you justify your own reasoning for keeping their money. I've had this happen to me a couple times before. It seems like no matter how you handle it you never get the work you paid for or your money back.

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candyflip

He kept going because he wanted the piece of owned.com that Matt was offering as part of the revsharing deal. To me it just seems like he knew the situation and was just taking advantage of Nysus and the situation. Typical scumbag showing his true colors.

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Agent 488

does complaining on a message board about unfinihsed work violate an nda?

also does violating an nda mean that you get to keep the money from an unfinished project?

something doesn't add up.