Stranger In A Strange Land - GoFuckYourself.com

jimmyD · 12-22-2002, 01:00 PM

Wow! So much to read! A bunch of people in the same biz networking in a positive way. An almost alien concept (to my small realm of comprehension, that is). Been making porn for almost a decade in the other porn biz. There, networking means finding shit out about your competition in order to fuck them--preferably sans lube. This place seems like the antithesis of that. Is it? If so, I am amazed.

Mutt · 12-22-2002, 01:05 PM

hi jimmy go fuck yourself

that's the traditional GFY welcome

i'm a friend of Luke's, that's where i know your name from.

the gap between the video industry and the Net industry is closing. Content is becoming more important and you guys got the content.

Mutt · 12-22-2002, 01:09 PM

about what you said, the Net biz is full of the same types, you'll get backstabbed here as well, the only thing about this biz is that there's more money in more people's hands than in the video biz, an outsider can be successful on the Net, very hard in the video biz to do that.

DirkPitt · 12-22-2002, 01:12 PM

welcome

stanton · 12-22-2002, 01:19 PM

welcome

jimmyD · 12-22-2002, 01:33 PM

But so much of that content truly SUCKS!SUCKS!

Mutt · 12-22-2002, 01:36 PM

whose content do you like then Jimmy? gotta be some people's content that you like.

i don't know any of your stuff, what's your best work?

jimmyD · 12-22-2002, 02:17 PM

Good question--whose content do I like? Hmmm... John Leslie, Andrew Blake...

So much of what's put out is unbelievably shoddy. It could be good, but so often the arts and crafts of moviemaking are totally ignored. There's little or no 'quality of entertainment.' Who needs decent lighting and sound and camerawork and editing when you've got a hot-looking girl and a hard dick? That seems to be the M.O. for a lot of pornographers. I know we're not making Hollywood movies, but some adherence to minimum standards of movie-making are not difficult to achieve even when you have limited budgets and no time to get it done. How much money can I suck out of a budget and put in my pocket is the order of the day.

my work? I have no freaking idea. My series "The Sopornos" for VCA got a lot of attention, made a boatload of money, and won awards as did a movie I made called "Succubus." I guess my best is what made the most dough--that's what counts, right? That would include "Plaid," my "Boobwatch" series, my "Nightshift" series, possibly others.

I guess why I think so much of the content sucks is that there's little 'pride in workmanship' in the jiz biz. Putting a piece of shit in a good-looking box is what companies often do. And I've been as guilty of that as the next guy. I guess it wears on you. If others don't really care, why should I? If the guy you're making the movie for doesn't seem to care, why should I? If the guy who gave me 15 or 20 or more thousand dollars to make a flick, and then he can't even be bothered to look at the product before it's sold, why should I care?

The jiz biz holds the consumers who buy its products in low esteem. Rob Black calls them 'marks.' That's how they see their audiences. They shovel shit to the masses and then when awards time comes around, they pretend they're making something other than shit.

But it's all catching up to them now. Sales are off. Consumers are becoming discriminating. It seems that anyone can set up shop and be a porn company. But he whole world of porn consumers is not just made up of raincoaters. It's going to become tougher and tougher to compete, actually, it already is. The cable and pay-per-view outlets are turning down product like never before. Distributors are returning product in record numbers and taking longer and longer to pay for the goods they've kept. The guys who do it the cheapest are the guys getting the work and it shows--both in sales and in quality.

On the net, you don't have a box to hide the shit in. Yeah, I guess your 'samples' pages can be misleading, but you have less opportunity to hide true, abominable shit. So I suppose you resort to other tricks to fuck the consumer. But I'm thinking we're seeing a consumer revolt both in the brick-and-mortar porn biz, and the e-biz. It's not just because there's so much available, it's also because so much of it either sucks, or is the same as what everyone else is doing.

Sorry if I'm preaching. It's Sunday morning. Traditionally, a day for preaching.

I guess when you're in a business that gives out trophies and awards for things like sodomy you can't expect much more.

I could be wrong, though.

Mutt · 12-22-2002, 02:31 PM

i agree with most of what you say jimmy.

it seems though that you are down on gonzo, and yeah you are right that gonzo has had a BIG effect on the decline of quality in the jizz biz, anybody with a cheap video camera who can find a few crack whores can put out videos, that's where the glut of content is coming from. But for me, a hot gonzo scene with a hot chick and decent lighting, sound is what I like best in porn.

I can't watch plotted porn anymore, that was mostly what was available when i came of age as a monkey spanker, now the only thing i'm looking for is QUALITY gonzo.

The craze on the Net has been Bangbus and its progeny for the last couple of years, there's an endless tide of clones that won't stop coming, the public wants it. Bangbus gets too much credit, Bangbus is simply a gonzo series, done well though. Many of the most popular 'reality porn' sites are lame, really poor quality gonzo. People don't understand that it takes some good skillz
to make quality gonzo, it ain't an accident when it happens.

Plotted porn features obviously are still doing very well, Vivid is doing all sorts of big business. I guess on cable/satellite/PPV the feature style porn is what they're after.

Do you also do some gonzo or only the more tradtional flicks with a script?

Mutt · 12-22-2002, 02:41 PM

i agree about the guys turning out the cheap crap and doing it for next to nothing. I'm seeing it now, every time i get a new prospect, there's always 'Oh i gotta guy who can shoot me high quality hardcore reality scenes for $1,000' - and even less than that. You can't shoot anything quality for that and make even a small profit . But once a webmaster hears that, that's all he wants to pay. I'd be the same way. So it's guys in your biz who are cutting your own throats, destroying another market.

Shooting custom content isn't much of a money maker. Owning your own content AND the website that goes with it is where the money is. Saturation point is already here on the Net as it is in the video biz. Customers leaves paysites as fast as they leave smut shops. It makes investing in custom content a tricky proposition.

jimmyD · 12-22-2002, 06:12 PM

I'm not down on gonzo--whatever that is. In almost ten years of shooting sex, I've yet to hear a good definition of what constitutes gonzo. I guess one knows it when one sees it. There was a time I would have said, "Gonzo is amateur stuff, distributed by pro companies." But that's not true. There is some good gonzo produced. Finding it is often difficult.

Is it plotted? Must not be gonzo. But this is untrue--I've seen plotted gonzo, or at least thematic gonzo. Where the line blurs is between what's called gonzo and what's called wall-to-wall sex. Some people think of gonzo as being 'free-form,' or without walls or limitations. In live theater, and in television and the cinema, when a character speaks directly to the audience, it's called breaking the fourth wall. Is that what gonzo's about? I don't know, maybe.

But you can shoot a feature that way too. I once shot a flick called "Shooting Sex." It's basically a porn mock-u-mentary. It was sold as a feature, was reviewed as a feature, was nominated for Best Sex Comedy by AVN as a feature, but it wasn't a freakin feature. It had elements of a feature (a plot and story and all), and also elements of a gonzo (fourth wall broken constantly--very free-form), and most certainly elements of a faux documentary (a la "This is Spinal Tap"), but it didn't fit neatly into anyone's categories.

I guess that's what gonzo is--something that doesn't fall neatly into the any other categories. This, of course, covers the majority of porn.

I shot another feature once called "Nightshift." It was a takeoff on HBO's "Taxicab Confessions." In it was a scene that the AVN reviewer said was 'chillingly close to the best gonzo we've seen from John Leslie.' This was a feature though. Go figure. I was grateful for those words as Leslie is my fave.

My biggest gripe is quality: picture, sound, editing, duplication. And we certainly don't need ultra-experienced, award-winning Hollywood cinematographers and others to achieve this.

Between you and I and anyone else who might read this, I'm working to transition to providing web content as opposed to media content. There's a reason everyone's trying to copy Bangbus, problem is all there trying to copy is the content, not the intent. The intent is to provide unique, entertaining, decently-produced, reality-based content. It's not about cloning second-rate, look-a-like shit. We need to be like the Japanese. Look at what works. Copy what is a success--but improve it, make it better, put your own spin on it, your own hook. Make it feel like it, but not be like it, if that makes sense.

jimmyd
http://www.simplyjimmyd.com
http://www.sinamotion.com

cronos · 12-22-2002, 06:59 PM

JimmyD: I respect a honest guy, but most guys like to see hot girls getting fucked. Period, and not thespianwannabes. Give us the porn sans the acting. I even recall some putz having all his actionscenes featured on the dvd. Some guys are just clueless.

No pornflick should have acting period. All pornactors and directors should stick to what they supposedly know: Porn.

Porncomedy????My ass, have you heard of Ed Wood?

Mutt · 12-22-2002, 07:04 PM

you're right, trying to define 'gonzo' isn't easy, everybody has their own idea what it is. What gonzo ISN'T is easier to define than what it is. Many people think 'gonzo' is real, but most of gonzo is pretend reality, some of it done pretty well. BangBus has tricked ALOT of people, i'd say half the web surfers who saw it when it first came out believed it to be real or couldn't make up their minds for sure - that is successful filmmaking, even if it is just porn.

I've heard of some of the videos you've done but I don't rent much porn, i see too much of it online so i'm not up on who's doing what really.

If you're going to shoot for the Web, email me, i'll give you some good info. Don't become just a shooter for hire - it's a dead end, unless all you're interested in is making a living, paying the bills.
Nobody in this business pays enough for scenes to make it worthwhile for you to just shoot on a contract. Web companies are very..........um................frugal

[email protected]

Mutt · 12-22-2002, 08:30 PM

oh.............i see you are already into this, just saw your Sinamation site. It looks like high quality stuff, lots of production value, but i dunno..... i'm thinking it's too high brow jimmy.

i guess this stuff is being shot for both DVD market and as web content.

i could give you an idea right now that would make a killer site, but it's nothing fancy, no dry ice, music, or effects. Just more reality porn. Nobody's doing it, it can only be done in L.A., not enough talent anywhere else. Think is even if you have a killer site, you're gonna need traffic and lots of it. I talk to a fair number of you video guys, that's what you don't understand, i don't mean you personally, but as an industry. Most of the video industry missed out on the Gold Rush days, u need big money now to buy your way in. Not saying it's impossible but you need to make alliances and deals with people who have traffic.

Some of these reality sites arent even getting any 'pop' now......webmasters are not wowed by them anymore. Somebody just posted a bunch of new ones, i had never heard of most of them nor did i know which program they were part of.

Last cool thing i've seen content wise in this industry is CollegeFuckFest. That has a huge hook. Shit must be a nightmare to produce and about as expensive as shooting web content can get.

Rochard · 12-22-2002, 11:31 PM

Intesting post, and of course Mutt is all over it.

I disagree with Mutt about the "Industry" (on-line adult). The difference between the on-line adult industry and video porn is that the on-line adult industry works together hand in hand. Yes, there is backing stabbing going on, but for the most part we work well together. I can name a dozen companies that we shoud be competing with, but instead we do business with.

With the online world it's all about traffic. You send me some traffic, I send you some traffic, we both make money, and everyone is happy.

jimmyD · 12-22-2002, 11:32 PM

Trust me, I can shoot some brow so low you'll think it's hanging off my chin.

And yes, please share with me the Ancient Mystic Secrets of shooting for the web, I'll be in your debt.

Mr.Fiction · 12-22-2002, 11:34 PM

When you click on a thread, you just never know what's going to be inside.

Mutt · 12-22-2002, 11:54 PM

i agree Roc, i do think that the interdependence that Net companies have, mostly based on the nature of circulating traffic, makes Net companies work together better than what i gather goes on in the video industry. But this industry has tons of scam artists in it as well.

Jimmyd, i looked at the trailers on Animotion, they seemed too slick and stylized for what guys are looking for on the Net. Niche is powerful on the adult Net. There are niches that are underserved by content providers.

I liked the sound of that taxicab confidential thing. That could be a really good reality site, better than some of the stuff out there.
was it a successful video series?

what nobody has done yet is take a reality porn concept and sell the content as a leased plugin. so far the people doing those sites are running them as their own paysites only. I think if the 'hook', the idea, was good, and you updated with a new 'episode' once every two weeks alot of paysite operators would take it. It's much too expensive for most companies to shoot that stuff for themselves as well as being a big headache.

If your idea is good enough, shop it to some medium sized companies who can show you that they have a fair bit of traffic, tell them you'll shoot it at your expense, in return for a partnership. maybe they'll front u some of the production expense too.

12-22-2002, 01:00 PM	#1
jimmyD Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: porn valley Posts: 14	Stranger In A Strange Land Wow! So much to read! A bunch of people in the same biz networking in a positive way. An almost alien concept (to my small realm of comprehension, that is). Been making porn for almost a decade in the other porn biz. There, networking means finding shit out about your competition in order to fuck them--preferably sans lube. This place seems like the antithesis of that. Is it? If so, I am amazed.

12-22-2002, 01:05 PM	#2
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	hi jimmy go fuck yourself that's the traditional GFY welcome i'm a friend of Luke's, that's where i know your name from. the gap between the video industry and the Net industry is closing. Content is becoming more important and you guys got the content. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

12-22-2002, 01:09 PM	#3
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	about what you said, the Net biz is full of the same types, you'll get backstabbed here as well, the only thing about this biz is that there's more money in more people's hands than in the video biz, an outsider can be successful on the Net, very hard in the video biz to do that. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

12-22-2002, 01:36 PM	#7
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	whose content do you like then Jimmy? gotta be some people's content that you like. i don't know any of your stuff, what's your best work? __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

12-22-2002, 02:31 PM	#9
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	i agree with most of what you say jimmy. it seems though that you are down on gonzo, and yeah you are right that gonzo has had a BIG effect on the decline of quality in the jizz biz, anybody with a cheap video camera who can find a few crack whores can put out videos, that's where the glut of content is coming from. But for me, a hot gonzo scene with a hot chick and decent lighting, sound is what I like best in porn. I can't watch plotted porn anymore, that was mostly what was available when i came of age as a monkey spanker, now the only thing i'm looking for is QUALITY gonzo. The craze on the Net has been Bangbus and its progeny for the last couple of years, there's an endless tide of clones that won't stop coming, the public wants it. Bangbus gets too much credit, Bangbus is simply a gonzo series, done well though. Many of the most popular 'reality porn' sites are lame, really poor quality gonzo. People don't understand that it takes some good skillz to make quality gonzo, it ain't an accident when it happens. Plotted porn features obviously are still doing very well, Vivid is doing all sorts of big business. I guess on cable/satellite/PPV the feature style porn is what they're after. Do you also do some gonzo or only the more tradtional flicks with a script? __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

12-22-2002, 01:12 PM	#4
DirkPitt Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mars Posts: 357	welcome

12-22-2002, 01:19 PM	#5
stanton So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 2,640	welcome

12-22-2002, 01:33 PM	#6
jimmyD Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: porn valley Posts: 14	But so much of that content truly SUCKS!SUCKS!

12-22-2002, 02:17 PM	#8
jimmyD Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: porn valley Posts: 14	Good question--whose content do I like? Hmmm... John Leslie, Andrew Blake... So much of what's put out is unbelievably shoddy. It could be good, but so often the arts and crafts of moviemaking are totally ignored. There's little or no 'quality of entertainment.' Who needs decent lighting and sound and camerawork and editing when you've got a hot-looking girl and a hard dick? That seems to be the M.O. for a lot of pornographers. I know we're not making Hollywood movies, but some adherence to minimum standards of movie-making are not difficult to achieve even when you have limited budgets and no time to get it done. How much money can I suck out of a budget and put in my pocket is the order of the day. my work? I have no freaking idea. My series "The Sopornos" for VCA got a lot of attention, made a boatload of money, and won awards as did a movie I made called "Succubus." I guess my best is what made the most dough--that's what counts, right? That would include "Plaid," my "Boobwatch" series, my "Nightshift" series, possibly others. I guess why I think so much of the content sucks is that there's little 'pride in workmanship' in the jiz biz. Putting a piece of shit in a good-looking box is what companies often do. And I've been as guilty of that as the next guy. I guess it wears on you. If others don't really care, why should I? If the guy you're making the movie for doesn't seem to care, why should I? If the guy who gave me 15 or 20 or more thousand dollars to make a flick, and then he can't even be bothered to look at the product before it's sold, why should I care? The jiz biz holds the consumers who buy its products in low esteem. Rob Black calls them 'marks.' That's how they see their audiences. They shovel shit to the masses and then when awards time comes around, they pretend they're making something other than shit. But it's all catching up to them now. Sales are off. Consumers are becoming discriminating. It seems that anyone can set up shop and be a porn company. But he whole world of porn consumers is not just made up of raincoaters. It's going to become tougher and tougher to compete, actually, it already is. The cable and pay-per-view outlets are turning down product like never before. Distributors are returning product in record numbers and taking longer and longer to pay for the goods they've kept. The guys who do it the cheapest are the guys getting the work and it shows--both in sales and in quality. On the net, you don't have a box to hide the shit in. Yeah, I guess your 'samples' pages can be misleading, but you have less opportunity to hide true, abominable shit. So I suppose you resort to other tricks to fuck the consumer. But I'm thinking we're seeing a consumer revolt both in the brick-and-mortar porn biz, and the e-biz. It's not just because there's so much available, it's also because so much of it either sucks, or is the same as what everyone else is doing. Sorry if I'm preaching. It's Sunday morning. Traditionally, a day for preaching. I guess when you're in a business that gives out trophies and awards for things like sodomy you can't expect much more. I could be wrong, though.

12-22-2002, 02:41 PM	#10
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	i agree about the guys turning out the cheap crap and doing it for next to nothing. I'm seeing it now, every time i get a new prospect, there's always 'Oh i gotta guy who can shoot me high quality hardcore reality scenes for $1,000' - and even less than that. You can't shoot anything quality for that and make even a small profit . But once a webmaster hears that, that's all he wants to pay. I'd be the same way. So it's guys in your biz who are cutting your own throats, destroying another market. Shooting custom content isn't much of a money maker. Owning your own content AND the website that goes with it is where the money is. Saturation point is already here on the Net as it is in the video biz. Customers leaves paysites as fast as they leave smut shops. It makes investing in custom content a tricky proposition. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

12-22-2002, 06:12 PM	#11
jimmyD Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: porn valley Posts: 14	I'm not down on gonzo--whatever that is. In almost ten years of shooting sex, I've yet to hear a good definition of what constitutes gonzo. I guess one knows it when one sees it. There was a time I would have said, "Gonzo is amateur stuff, distributed by pro companies." But that's not true. There is some good gonzo produced. Finding it is often difficult. Is it plotted? Must not be gonzo. But this is untrue--I've seen plotted gonzo, or at least thematic gonzo. Where the line blurs is between what's called gonzo and what's called wall-to-wall sex. Some people think of gonzo as being 'free-form,' or without walls or limitations. In live theater, and in television and the cinema, when a character speaks directly to the audience, it's called breaking the fourth wall. Is that what gonzo's about? I don't know, maybe. But you can shoot a feature that way too. I once shot a flick called "Shooting Sex." It's basically a porn mock-u-mentary. It was sold as a feature, was reviewed as a feature, was nominated for Best Sex Comedy by AVN as a feature, but it wasn't a freakin feature. It had elements of a feature (a plot and story and all), and also elements of a gonzo (fourth wall broken constantly--very free-form), and most certainly elements of a faux documentary (a la "This is Spinal Tap"), but it didn't fit neatly into anyone's categories. I guess that's what gonzo is--something that doesn't fall neatly into the any other categories. This, of course, covers the majority of porn. I shot another feature once called "Nightshift." It was a takeoff on HBO's "Taxicab Confessions." In it was a scene that the AVN reviewer said was 'chillingly close to the best gonzo we've seen from John Leslie.' This was a feature though. Go figure. I was grateful for those words as Leslie is my fave. My biggest gripe is quality: picture, sound, editing, duplication. And we certainly don't need ultra-experienced, award-winning Hollywood cinematographers and others to achieve this. Between you and I and anyone else who might read this, I'm working to transition to providing web content as opposed to media content. There's a reason everyone's trying to copy Bangbus, problem is all there trying to copy is the content, not the intent. The intent is to provide unique, entertaining, decently-produced, reality-based content. It's not about cloning second-rate, look-a-like shit. We need to be like the Japanese. Look at what works. Copy what is a success--but improve it, make it better, put your own spin on it, your own hook. Make it feel like it, but not be like it, if that makes sense. jimmyd http://www.simplyjimmyd.com http://www.sinamotion.com

12-22-2002, 06:59 PM	#12
cronos Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Norway Posts: 414	JimmyD: I respect a honest guy, but most guys like to see hot girls getting fucked. Period, and not thespianwannabes. Give us the porn sans the acting. I even recall some putz having all his actionscenes featured on the dvd. Some guys are just clueless. No pornflick should have acting period. All pornactors and directors should stick to what they supposedly know: Porn. Porncomedy????My ass, have you heard of Ed Wood? __________________ ICQ:344928941

12-22-2002, 07:04 PM	#13
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	you're right, trying to define 'gonzo' isn't easy, everybody has their own idea what it is. What gonzo ISN'T is easier to define than what it is. Many people think 'gonzo' is real, but most of gonzo is pretend reality, some of it done pretty well. BangBus has tricked ALOT of people, i'd say half the web surfers who saw it when it first came out believed it to be real or couldn't make up their minds for sure - that is successful filmmaking, even if it is just porn. I've heard of some of the videos you've done but I don't rent much porn, i see too much of it online so i'm not up on who's doing what really. If you're going to shoot for the Web, email me, i'll give you some good info. Don't become just a shooter for hire - it's a dead end, unless all you're interested in is making a living, paying the bills. Nobody in this business pays enough for scenes to make it worthwhile for you to just shoot on a contract. Web companies are very..........um................frugal [email protected] __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

12-22-2002, 08:30 PM	#14
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	oh.............i see you are already into this, just saw your Sinamation site. It looks like high quality stuff, lots of production value, but i dunno..... i'm thinking it's too high brow jimmy. i guess this stuff is being shot for both DVD market and as web content. i could give you an idea right now that would make a killer site, but it's nothing fancy, no dry ice, music, or effects. Just more reality porn. Nobody's doing it, it can only be done in L.A., not enough talent anywhere else. Think is even if you have a killer site, you're gonna need traffic and lots of it. I talk to a fair number of you video guys, that's what you don't understand, i don't mean you personally, but as an industry. Most of the video industry missed out on the Gold Rush days, u need big money now to buy your way in. Not saying it's impossible but you need to make alliances and deals with people who have traffic. Some of these reality sites arent even getting any 'pop' now......webmasters are not wowed by them anymore. Somebody just posted a bunch of new ones, i had never heard of most of them nor did i know which program they were part of. Last cool thing i've seen content wise in this industry is CollegeFuckFest. That has a huge hook. Shit must be a nightmare to produce and about as expensive as shooting web content can get. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

12-22-2002, 11:31 PM	#15
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 72,930	Intesting post, and of course Mutt is all over it. I disagree with Mutt about the "Industry" (on-line adult). The difference between the on-line adult industry and video porn is that the on-line adult industry works together hand in hand. Yes, there is backing stabbing going on, but for the most part we work well together. I can name a dozen companies that we shoud be competing with, but instead we do business with. With the online world it's all about traffic. You send me some traffic, I send you some traffic, we both make money, and everyone is happy. __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION

12-22-2002, 11:32 PM	#16
jimmyD Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: porn valley Posts: 14	Trust me, I can shoot some brow so low you'll think it's hanging off my chin. And yes, please share with me the Ancient Mystic Secrets of shooting for the web, I'll be in your debt.

12-22-2002, 11:34 PM	#17
Mr.Fiction Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Free Speech Land Posts: 9,484	When you click on a thread, you just never know what's going to be inside.

12-22-2002, 11:54 PM	#18
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	i agree Roc, i do think that the interdependence that Net companies have, mostly based on the nature of circulating traffic, makes Net companies work together better than what i gather goes on in the video industry. But this industry has tons of scam artists in it as well. Jimmyd, i looked at the trailers on Animotion, they seemed too slick and stylized for what guys are looking for on the Net. Niche is powerful on the adult Net. There are niches that are underserved by content providers. I liked the sound of that taxicab confidential thing. That could be a really good reality site, better than some of the stuff out there. was it a successful video series? what nobody has done yet is take a reality porn concept and sell the content as a leased plugin. so far the people doing those sites are running them as their own paysites only. I think if the 'hook', the idea, was good, and you updated with a new 'episode' once every two weeks alot of paysite operators would take it. It's much too expensive for most companies to shoot that stuff for themselves as well as being a big headache. If your idea is good enough, shop it to some medium sized companies who can show you that they have a fair bit of traffic, tell them you'll shoot it at your expense, in return for a partnership. maybe they'll front u some of the production expense too. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!