Obama saves U.S. from going into default. Thank you

[baddog]

I can't be broke, I still have checks.

Good plan.

[The Demon]

HAHAAHAHA

That would be hilarious though, if someone actually claimed such bullshit.

[epitome]

That only puts borrowing at a little more than 200% of what the Treasury takes in per year. Countries in far worse shape have borrowed much more and recovered just fine (Japan immediately comes to mind).

Most Americans carry debt far in excess of 200% annual income once you factor in mortgages.

The important thing is that paygo is once again in effect, which means lawmakers must be more confident that we're finally winding down from the great recession.

[CE_Rashaan]

Originally Posted by epitome

That only puts borrowing at a little more than 200% of what the Treasury takes in per year. Countries in far worse shape have borrowed much more and recovered just fine (Japan immediately comes to mind).

Most Americans carry debt far in excess of 200% annual income once you factor in mortgages.

The important thing is that paygo is once again in effect, which means lawmakers must be more confident that we're finally winding down from the great recession.

See I told you! thanks for clearing that up

[Vendzilla]

Obama signed the bill privately Friday at the White House.

LMAO, I wonder why he didn't televise it

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by baddog

I can't be broke, I still have checks.

Good plan.

You know when Reagan literally DOUBLE the debt, I mean he caused as much debt as all the other 39 presidents COMBINED in just 8 years you were totally cool with that apparently.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by GatorB

You know when Reagan literally DOUBLE the debt, I mean he caused as much debt as all the other 39 presidents COMBINED in just 8 years you were totally cool with that apparently.

but we got something for it
end of cold war
employment
berlin wall came down
and a few other things

[dyna mo]

nice thread- thanks from me too obama!

[dav3]

I thought they did this a month or so ago?

[dyna mo]

Congress has raised the debt limit seven times since 2001. Deficits each year since 2001 and the persistent increases in debt held by government accounts repeatedly raised the debt to or near the limit in place at the
time.

[dyna mo]

emphasis on the word *congress*

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

emphasis on the word *congress*

Congress controls the money

[DudeRick]

Were all fucking doomed!

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Congress controls the money

Not if Obama has his way. He is already not returning the TARP funds and wants trillions in slush funds for the executive branch.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

Not if Obama has his way. He is already not returning the TARP funds and wants trillions in slush funds for the executive branch.

And he wants a second stimlus, anyone run a business like this? one thats legal that is?

[brandonstills]

How can you go broke when you can just print as much money as you need? lol

[mmcfadden]

i just broke my toe

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by brandonstills

How can you go broke when you can just print as much money as you need? lol

Inflation can make you go broke.

[NoComments]

Originally Posted by GatorB

You know when Reagan literally DOUBLE the debt, I mean he caused as much debt as all the other 39 presidents COMBINED in just 8 years you were totally cool with that apparently.

Some people just can't get out of their party clothing.

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

but we got something for it
end of cold war
employment
berlin wall came down
and a few other things

The same thing happened this time with the debt. You got a country full of oil and another country full of opium.

[czarina]

we should actually start printing our own money

[czarina]

I mean, us, as in us people, not us as in the US govt

[Brujah]

Thirty-seven Democrats, mostly from GOP-leaning districts, voted against the measure. So did every Republican, even though they routinely supported prior increases in the borrowing cap when their party controlled Congress or when Republican George W. Bush was president.

Remember when...

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by epitome

That only puts borrowing at a little more than 200% of what the Treasury takes in per year. Countries in far worse shape have borrowed much more and recovered just fine (Japan immediately comes to mind).

Most Americans carry debt far in excess of 200% annual income once you factor in mortgages.

The important thing is that paygo is once again in effect, which means lawmakers must be more confident that we're finally winding down from the great recession.

it's the 'vig' kicking our ass

[sortie]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

but we got something for it
end of cold war
employment
berlin wall came down
and a few other things

I always assumed that the Berlin wall came down after the Soviet Union could no
longer afford to maintain the situation. The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan coupled
with the US grain embargo(imposed by Jimmy Carter) both starved and financially ruined
the Soviet Union until it finally collapsed and thus ending the cold war.

But hey, if you'd like to credit Reagan's "Evil Empire speech" for doing all that then....ok.



Oh yeah, Regan deregulated the stock market and banking and the market
has been crashing every few years since. Can you say "World financial crisis" with
a straight face while applauding(Regan) probably the dumbest fucking president to ever
live besides Bush #2?

Bush #1 followed Regan and almost immediately did the unprecedented move of
extending unemployment benefits to double it's length and even extended it again
because of massive unemployment.

Oh how quick a Republican can forget.

What a joke.

[sortie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_H._W._Bush

By his second year in office, Bush was told by his economic advisors to stop dealing with the economy, as they believed that he had done everything necessary to ensure his reelection.[11] By 1992, interest and inflation rates were the lowest in years, but by midyear the unemployment rate reached 7.8 percent, the highest since 1984.[12] In September 1992, the Census Bureau reported that 14.2 percent of all Americans lived in poverty.[12] At a press conference in 1990, Bush told reporters that he found foreign policy more enjoyable.

[seeandsee]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

nice thread- thanks from me too obama!

[baddog]

Originally Posted by seeandsee

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by sortie

I always assumed that the Berlin wall came down after the Soviet Union could no
longer afford to maintain the situation. The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan coupled
with the US grain embargo(imposed by Jimmy Carter) both starved and financially ruined
the Soviet Union until it finally collapsed and thus ending the cold war.

But hey, if you'd like to credit Reagan's "Evil Empire speech" for doing all that then....ok.



Oh yeah, Regan deregulated the stock market and banking and the market
has been crashing every few years since. Can you say "World financial crisis" with
a straight face while applauding(Regan) probably the dumbest fucking president to ever
live besides Bush #2?

Bush #1 followed Regan and almost immediately did the unprecedented move of
extending unemployment benefits to double it's length and even extended it again
because of massive unemployment.

Oh how quick a Republican can forget.

What a joke.

Jesus, thats the best liberal spin I have have ever heard

During Jimmy Carter's last year in office (1980), inflation averaged 12.5%, compared to 4.4% during Reagan's last year in office (1988). Over those eight years, the unemployment rate declined from 7.5% to 5.3%, hitting highs of 9.7% (1982) and 9.6% (1983) and averaging 7.5% during Reagan's administration.

During Reagan's presidency, federal income tax rates were lowered significantly with the signing of the bipartisan Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981. Real gross domestic product (GDP) growth recovered strongly after the 1982 recession and grew during his eight years in office at an annual rate of 3.85% per year. Unemployment peaked at 10.8% percent in December 1982?higher than any time since the Great Depression?then dropped during the rest of Reagan's presidency. Eighteen million new jobs were created, while inflation significantly decreased. The net effect of all Reagan-era tax bills was a 1% decrease in government revenues when compared to Treasury Department revenue estimates from the Administration's first post-enactment January budgets. However, federal Income Tax receipts almost doubled from 1980 to 1989, rising from $308.7Bn to $549.0Bn.

During the Reagan Administration, federal receipts grew at an average rate of 8.2% (2.5% attributed to higher Social Security receipts), and federal outlays grew at an annual rate of 7.1%.

Reagan also revised the tax code with the bipartisan Tax Reform Act of 1986.


Immigration Reform and Control Act in 1986
Too bad no one has enforced that

End of the cold war
By the early 1980s, the USSR had built up a military arsenal and army surpassing that of the United States. Previously, the U.S. had relied on the qualitative superiority of its weapons to essentially frighten the Soviets, but the gap had been narrowed. After President Reagan's military buildup, the Soviet Union did not further dramatically build up its military;the enormous military expenses, in combination with collectivized agriculture and inefficient planned manufacturing, were a heavy burden for the Soviet economy. At the same time, the Reagan Administration persuaded Saudi Arabia to increase oil production, which resulted in a drop of oil prices in 1985 to one-third of the previous level; oil was the main source of Soviet export revenues. These factors gradually brought the Soviet economy to a stagnant state during Gorbachev's tenure

We havn't had a good leader since

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Jesus, thats the best liberal spin I have have ever heard

During Jimmy Carter's last year in office (1980), inflation averaged 12.5%, compared to 4.4% during Reagan's last year in office (1988). Over those eight years, the unemployment rate declined from 7.5% to 5.3%, hitting highs of 9.7% (1982) and 9.6% (1983) and averaging 7.5% during Reagan's administration.

During Reagan's presidency, federal income tax rates were lowered significantly with the signing of the bipartisan Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981. Real gross domestic product (GDP) growth recovered strongly after the 1982 recession and grew during his eight years in office at an annual rate of 3.85% per year. Unemployment peaked at 10.8% percent in December 1982?higher than any time since the Great Depression?then dropped during the rest of Reagan's presidency. Eighteen million new jobs were created, while inflation significantly decreased. The net effect of all Reagan-era tax bills was a 1% decrease in government revenues when compared to Treasury Department revenue estimates from the Administration's first post-enactment January budgets. However, federal Income Tax receipts almost doubled from 1980 to 1989, rising from $308.7Bn to $549.0Bn.

During the Reagan Administration, federal receipts grew at an average rate of 8.2% (2.5% attributed to higher Social Security receipts), and federal outlays grew at an annual rate of 7.1%.

Reagan also revised the tax code with the bipartisan Tax Reform Act of 1986.


Immigration Reform and Control Act in 1986
Too bad no one has enforced that

End of the cold war
By the early 1980s, the USSR had built up a military arsenal and army surpassing that of the United States. Previously, the U.S. had relied on the qualitative superiority of its weapons to essentially frighten the Soviets, but the gap had been narrowed. After President Reagan's military buildup, the Soviet Union did not further dramatically build up its military;the enormous military expenses, in combination with collectivized agriculture and inefficient planned manufacturing, were a heavy burden for the Soviet economy. At the same time, the Reagan Administration persuaded Saudi Arabia to increase oil production, which resulted in a drop of oil prices in 1985 to one-third of the previous level; oil was the main source of Soviet export revenues. These factors gradually brought the Soviet economy to a stagnant state during Gorbachev's tenure

We havn't had a good leader since

if you would compare regans first couple of years to obama's, the unemployment problem looks very similar...and oh, its already coming down.

[Semi-Retired-Dave]

Thanks Obama.

[sortie]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Jesus, thats the best liberal spin I have have ever heard

During Jimmy Carter's last year in office (1980), inflation averaged 12.5%, compared to 4.4% during Reagan's last year in office (1988). Over those eight years, the unemployment rate declined from 7.5% to 5.3%, hitting highs of 9.7% (1982) and 9.6% (1983) and averaging 7.5% during Reagan's administration.

During Reagan's presidency, federal income tax rates were lowered significantly with the signing of the bipartisan Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981. Real gross domestic product (GDP) growth recovered strongly after the 1982 recession and grew during his eight years in office at an annual rate of 3.85% per year. Unemployment peaked at 10.8% percent in December 1982?higher than any time since the Great Depression?then dropped during the rest of Reagan's presidency. Eighteen million new jobs were created, while inflation significantly decreased. The net effect of all Reagan-era tax bills was a 1% decrease in government revenues when compared to Treasury Department revenue estimates from the Administration's first post-enactment January budgets. However, federal Income Tax receipts almost doubled from 1980 to 1989, rising from $308.7Bn to $549.0Bn.

During the Reagan Administration, federal receipts grew at an average rate of 8.2% (2.5% attributed to higher Social Security receipts), and federal outlays grew at an annual rate of 7.1%.

Reagan also revised the tax code with the bipartisan Tax Reform Act of 1986.


Immigration Reform and Control Act in 1986
Too bad no one has enforced that

End of the cold war
By the early 1980s, the USSR had built up a military arsenal and army surpassing that of the United States. Previously, the U.S. had relied on the qualitative superiority of its weapons to essentially frighten the Soviets, but the gap had been narrowed. After President Reagan's military buildup, the Soviet Union did not further dramatically build up its military;the enormous military expenses, in combination with collectivized agriculture and inefficient planned manufacturing, were a heavy burden for the Soviet economy. At the same time, the Reagan Administration persuaded Saudi Arabia to increase oil production, which resulted in a drop of oil prices in 1985 to one-third of the previous level; oil was the main source of Soviet export revenues. These factors gradually brought the Soviet economy to a stagnant state during Gorbachev's tenure

We havn't had a good leader since

That ain't no spin dude.

Come on, any president did something good and bad and we can quote tit/tat all day.
But this war shit, and ignoring the homeland problems except for violating
privacy rights in the name of "security"....no way.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

if you would compare regans first couple of years to obama's, the unemployment problem looks very similar...and oh, its already coming down.

it hasn't changed but .3%, just a alot of people gave up
Reagan didn't have a GOP controled house and senate and still got things done, still waiting for Obama

Originally Posted by sortie

That ain't no spin dude.

Come on, any president did something good and bad and we can quote tit/tat all day.
But this war shit, and ignoring the homeland problems except for violating
privacy rights in the name of "security"....no way.

Not any president, the biggest problems of Reagan's time got taken care of, the cold war, unemployment , inflation and at the end of his presidency, the number were a lot better.

The current administration said they were going to go into afghanistan, that's why I didn't vote for him, USSR tried, they failed. So if you're tired of the war and we'll see how long they will stay in Iraq.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by epitome

That only puts borrowing at a little more than 200% of what the Treasury takes in per year. Countries in far worse shape have borrowed much more and recovered just fine (Japan immediately comes to mind).

Most Americans carry debt far in excess of 200% annual income once you factor in mortgages.

The important thing is that paygo is once again in effect, which means lawmakers must be more confident that we're finally winding down from the great recession.

Uh. Japan is in the 20th year of it's deflationary recession. Try again.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

but we got something for it
end of cold war
employment
berlin wall came down
and a few other things

You're talking to a moron.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

if you would compare regans first couple of years to obama's, the unemployment problem looks very similar...and oh, its already coming down.

No, it's not coming down. You see, when Reagan was president, the unemployment stats were recorded and reported differently by the BLS. So right now we're at around 16-17%. And no, it's not coming down because unemployment benefits are running out for many unemployed. That doesn't magically make them employed. Try again.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by The Demon

Uh. Japan is in the 20th year of it's deflationary recession. Try again.

Link?

There is a current ripple effect caused by the US (as experienced by many countries)

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by epitome

Link?

There is a current ripple effect caused by the US (as experienced by many countries)

http://mises.org/daily/1099
http://www.city-data.com/forum/polit...ago-their.html
http://www.dawn.com/2001/11/10/ebr11.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...apan-recession

[epitome]

Originally Posted by The Demon

Uh. Japan is in the 20th year of it's deflationary recession. Try again.

Edit...see below...caching image problem

[epitome]

Looks like those charts may cache out...

Here is a perm link where they are hosted on my server:

[epitome]

Originally Posted by The Demon

http://mises.org/daily/1099
http://www.city-data.com/forum/polit...ago-their.html
http://www.dawn.com/2001/11/10/ebr11.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...apan-recession

1. From 2002 and based on economic theories.
2. You're really going to link me to a forum?
3. From 2001
4. Well you did get a recent article, except it's talking about the recent slip that Japan took along with just about every other developed nation. That "slip" is also noted in the charts I posted above.

[The Demon]

Please tell me what source you want so I don't have to google everything. I'm well aware of Japan's 20 year deflationary spiral, I just don't know what kind of source you're looking for.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by The Demon

No, it's not coming down. You see, when Reagan was president, the unemployment stats were recorded and reported differently by the BLS. So right now we're at around 16-17%. And no, it's not coming down because unemployment benefits are running out for many unemployed. That doesn't magically make them employed. Try again.

Link?

Let's break this down for you, too.

From the beginning of 2008 until the end, unemployment rose a total of 2.7% under the Republican president.

From February '09 until December '09 (Obama was sworn in on Jan 20th -- wouldn't be fair to hold January against him), unemployment rose 2.4% from 7.7% to 10.1%. It then fell to 9.7% in January '10.

The Republican administration shed more jobs than the Democratic one.

http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet

Congress has continuously extended jobless benefits since unemployment became an issue during the recession. The current extension is set to run out on Feb. 28 2010.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by The Demon

Please tell me what source you want so I don't have to google everything. I'm well aware of Japan's 20 year deflationary spiral, I just don't know what kind of source you're looking for.

Anything notable from the last two years vouching for that...

I tried Google and came up with nothing.

http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1...tionary+spiral

A bunch of things saying Japan is at risk of falling into one today, but no mention of one that has lingered 20 years.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by epitome

Link?

Let's break this down for you, too.

From the beginning of 2008 until the end, unemployment rose a total of 2.7% under the Republican president.

From February '09 until December '09 (Obama was sworn in on Jan 20th -- wouldn't be fair to hold January against him), unemployment rose 2.4% from 7.7% to 10.1%. It then fell to 9.7% in January '10.

The Republican administration shed more jobs than the Democratic one.

http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet

Congress has continuously extended jobless benefits since unemployment became an issue during the recession. The current extension is set to run out on Feb. 28 2010.

Sorry, not sure what you're talking about as the website you gave me says it's unavailable. Furthermore,

http://www.springerlink.com/content/c161t23242g24488/
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/une...ate-really-132
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1884...ls-jobs-report

[Agent 488]

same losers post here every day.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by epitome

Anything notable from the last two years vouching for that...

I tried Google and came up with nothing.

http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1...tionary+spiral

A bunch of things saying Japan is at risk of falling into one today, but no mention of one that has lingered 20 years.

I'm sorry what? Every single source i've provided has stated Japan has just entered it's 20th year of a deflationary recession. I've also studied the charts. But you want something from the past 2 years?

Btw, I find it convenient that you didn't except the mises.org article. I guess you prefer the flawed fundamentals of keynesian economics to the Austrian School.
http://janelanaweb.com/novidades/les...ong-recession/
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...-in-japan.html

Go ahead and stop me when I find a source that you DO accept.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by The Demon

Sorry, not sure what you're talking about as the website you gave me says it's unavailable. Furthermore,

http://www.springerlink.com/content/c161t23242g24488/
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/une...ate-really-132
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1884...ls-jobs-report

I never disputed "reported unemployment" vs "real unemployment."

I do realize that at some time in the last 20 or maybe 30 years, they changed the way that they record.

What hasn't changed over the last TWO years is how they record those numbers.

I understand the "can't compare to Reagan" argument and never disputed that.

As for the link, it's to the government agency that tracks and reports unemployment data. IT isn't a government strong suit.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by Agent 488

same losers post here every day.

Yea, the losers who want to bring some intelligence to a forum for morons, wouldn't you say Mr. 8,000+ posts in almost 4 years?

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by epitome

I never disputed "reported unemployment" vs "real unemployment."

I do realize that at some time in the last 20 or maybe 30 years, they changed the way that they record.

What hasn't changed over the last TWO years is how they record those numbers.

I understand the "can't compare to Reagan" argument and never disputed that.

As for the link, it's to the government agency that tracks and reports unemployment data. IT isn't a government strong suit.

So what are we arguing about? I'm still waiting on your link.