Careful what you wish for...Cops Questioning Suspected Illegals - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Dirty Dane · 04-22-2010, 12:38 PM

The day you are forced to carry ID, is the day you lost WW2.

american pervert · 04-22-2010, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyuLion

Good luck.

show me your papers NOW!

TheDoc · 04-22-2010, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

This is my point, cops can NOT just single you out and ask you for your ID unless they have probable cause. Do they still do it? Of course, cops do because most people are sheep and comply and why (meaning of my posts) this law is ripe for abuse.

Case in point, I have a rental property and was doing Spring maintenance four days ago. The police rolled up and ask if one of my tenets was home I said no and I have not seen him. They ask me who I am and if I lived here etc. I explained, this is rental property and I am the owner etc. They asked me if they can come in and take a look around and I said no. Then the cop starts to get pissed and asked me why not? I replied I just told you he was not here. He then asked me if that was my vehicle and I say yes, and then asked me for my ID? I told him this is "my" private property and I don't have to show you ID and matter of fact, please leave.

The cop explains he is doing an investigation and I said great investigate, I then shut the door and went back to work and they sat and knocked on the door and "yelled" open the door for another 20 minutes and then left.

My point? - I was completely fucking hassled because a cop got his ego bend by simply exercising my constitutional right. So what do you think is going to happen if that law goes national?

What do I think will happen then? The same thing that happens now.... they can do the above because they have the legal right to do it. It isn't going to happen anymore than it does now, the difference is when they do it now they finally the ability to process them.

If the guy did knock your door for 20 minutes and yell, you should have filed a complaint. It's the only way things like that stop.

And because you are on your private property doesn't mean you don't have to identify yourself and provide ID to prove that if asked - however he had no cause to force it... The ID doesn't have to be on your person because you're on your property, but you still have to have one.

You may want to learn what your constitutional rights are... your ID and the information on it isn't part of it.

04-22-2010, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSenator

Why go after the illegal immigrants????

Just stop the businesses hiring them illegally....problem solved.

You answered your own question. They are here ILLEGALLY.

IllTestYourGirls · 04-22-2010, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

The day you are forced to carry ID, is the day you lost WW2.

We lost that a long time ago

TheDoc · 04-22-2010, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

As mentioned I did Identify myself and still refused to show my ID. That is not the point and i'm not here to split hairs with you. The point is, and what you fail to understand is NEVER give up your liberties for security.

Clearly, you don't understand what your liberties are and why or how you have them.

TheSenator · 04-22-2010, 02:15 PM

Yeah, more government intervention....hmmmm I wonder where the Tea Party stands on this?

TheDoc · 04-22-2010, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

,,,and you are a tool.

You're the one thinking that giving a cop your id after you identify yourself is against your liberties and some how giving up security.

Yes, you can exercise your rights, and yes the cop has to have have a reason - but to think by not giving your ID YOU are some how safer, is simply the stupidest logic in the world - unless you have a reason to hide it.

TheDoc · 04-22-2010, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

Both companies got in trouble. (they were working on the boat).
But that's all I'm saying.... those are examples of perfectly legit businesses, that happen to hire illegals. Hence, my point... it happens every day. Just cuz they're not hanging out outside of Home Depot doesn't mean it's not still happening, and with legit businesses, not only drug runners.
They are still doing a lot of the jobs that the rest of us don't want to do. Well-to-do suburban white kids aren't going to fill those jobs. So when the labor pool dips too low, the whole shipping of illegals back to Mexico will cease again. It's cyclical.

Step 1. GOP gets their hair all in a furor about illegals.
Step 2. Some crazed Representative passes some bs law.
Step 3. They start cracking down and sending them back by the trainload.
Step 4. Labor pool dips to "frightening" levels.
Step 5. Suburban lawns start to over grow and die off.
Step 6. Stupid law gets removed or forgotten. Police are told to ease up.

It's not going to change.

If you get caught here you lose your ability to do business in the State of AZ, to get a lic for contractors or some insurance crap for it, and you get a hell of a fine.

The labor pool hasn't dipped here.. well it did but quickly came back. and it won't any place enough. We have more than enough legal workers to cover any illegal worker gaps.

Parts of the border here are damn near a war zone.... if something isn't done by the Gov, the people are going to take action more than they already have.

TheDoc · 04-22-2010, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

again, you assume too much. I identified myself and then he ran my plate and after I heard my name on his radio I still refused to produce my ID. Again, you can split hairs all you want to salvage your ego, but the fact remains people like you stated in your post that you will easily sacrifice your liberty for security.

Yes, we know you refused... you're allowed to if the cop doesn't think you're doing anything illegal. I have said that like 3 times now, and you keep repeating crap about splitting hairs.

Your facts though are fucked... you aren't giving up any liberties in this situation, even if you gave him your ID - zero liberties were waved, zero security would have been lost.

Wow man... let's just think of the simple logic, what if you weren't the owner? What if you did have the guy in the house? What about the security of the other people around you?

Yeah... people like you think only about yourself, me me me, it's YOUR RIGHTS - not your liberties - You don't even understand what to have a problem with on this law.

Cyber Fucker · 04-22-2010, 02:36 PM

Nice.... my illegal polish/english speaking ass doesn't want to go USA anyway. I'm fine here where I am.

TheDoc · 04-22-2010, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

I would have given law enforcement my ID.

Simple. I would tell the tenet the cops are outside and go deal with it. If he refused I would let the cops in.

What you fail to understand was the cop manipulation they were trying for. Running my vehicle plate on private property hoping it came back as my tenets so they would have probable cause. Simple. Be straight up with me and I'll be straight up with you. Don't hassle me or I will resist and question your authority.

Second, I don't need you to tell me about the law and rights or even law enforcement. I am a son of a cop and grew up hearing stories about citizen abuse with laughter. Matter of fact, my own father build a $250k house on a cops salary in Calabasas in 1981.

The cop wasn't manipulating anything, he was doing his job. And he shouldn't tell you anything, that is also his job.

Being that your dad was a cop, I figured he would have trained you how to talk to police so they leave you alone quicker, and that they don't bite.. but then again you may be looking through tainted glasses.

All you had to ask was, am I being detained for something? Once he says no, the conversation is legally over.

My years of Police and Military Police training at least taught me that..

Amputate Your Head · 04-22-2010, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

My personal opinion is they should raise law enforcement salaries to get the very best like they do in Alaska, but until that happens I will always view/question all cops with tainted glasses

Cops already make decent salaries. Far above what our soldiers in the military earn.
Cops become corrupt (or overreach their authority) because they operate in the civilian world where it's pretty easy to be corrupt. Instead of forking over even more cash to them, I say require them to strap on the body armor and go do a fucking tour in Afghanistan for a year or two for "training", before putting them on the street.

Maybe it'll give them some desperately needed perspective.

TheDoc · 04-22-2010, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

Honestly, that made me laugh. Most cops would not answer that until they finished questioning you or they would actually detain you. Look you sound like you might have been a good/great cop, but my point is cops don't need anymore control or authority.

So to get it back to topic: If that law goes into effect how long do you think it's going to take a before cops flip whole neighborhoods into informants with threats of sending "American" kids illegal alien parents back to wherever? This means there will be a lot of innocent poor people sitting in jails because some kid did not want his parents deported.

My personal opinion is they should raise law enforcement salaries to get the very best like they do in Alaska, but until that happens I will always view/question all cops with tainted glasses

By law the cop has to answer you yes or no, if it's yes then you fall under your rights and can ask for a lawyer if they plan on doing more than search/check of you.. but you have to comply. If the cop says no, they must stop questioning you because of your rights - just like if you asked for a lawyer, questions are over.

You can laugh all you want... but that's just the way it is.

I say give them more power in this situation, I think they should be allowed to go door to door and ask for your papers like they did me in Canada when I was on a work visa. They have every 'right' to ask for proof, even thought hey didn't know if I was American or not. I could have been legal or working illegally - and that is a huge no no in Canada and an idea that I greatly support!

Amputate Your Head · 04-22-2010, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

If you get caught here you lose your ability to do business in the State of AZ, to get a lic for contractors or some insurance crap for it, and you get a hell of a fine.

You understand that these things are nothing more than minor inconveniences.

TheDoc · 04-22-2010, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

You understand that these things are nothing more than minor inconveniences.

It's a law that is being enforced... simply because it can't be enforced all over doesn't mean it didn't have a major effect - because it did and still does.

You could go into the Mexican part of town, ask for some labor help, and grab some... If you did that with your Construction business, the white guy down the road is going to bust your ass to clear the competition.

It's not happening as much as you would like to think it is... "in business" yes it happens, but because of the law most just leave the state now.

They just busted a transportation company that was setup by an illegal, that hired illegals to transport illegals.

Amputate Your Head · 04-22-2010, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

They just busted a transportation company that was setup by an illegal, that hired illegals to transport illegals.

The trouble is, there is absolutely no disincentive for them to not do the exact same thing again. Or some other similar plan. Busting them and shipping them back over the border does nothing but provide them with an education on what NOT to do next time to avoid getting caught again.

These half baked "illegal enforcement" laws are bullshit. Nothing but posturing.

If they really wanted to stop illegals from crossing over, put up a fucking wall on the border, staff it with guards and be done. It's not rocket science.

And I mean a real wall. Make it thirty feet high with the top wrapped in military grade electrified concertina wire, guard turrets, cameras, gigantic warning signs, the works.

Would certainly cost much less than all this dick chasing we've engaged in forever.

woj · 04-22-2010, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

You people have some odd views.... what about the laws? It's illegal, to be here illegally. Let's not forget the most basic thing here - they're criminals

I never understood why people are so vocal about this issue. Sure they are breaking the law, but so what? Labeling them as "criminals" is a bit of a stretch, what have they done to you that you hate them so much?

The Demon · 04-22-2010, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

I never understood why people are so vocal about this issue. Sure they are breaking the law, but so what? Labeling them as "criminals" is a bit of a stretch, what have they done to you that you hate them so much?

So we call them criminals because we hate them? What you just said was insanely idiotic. We call them criminals because they broke the law. Not "so what". Douche.

TheDoc · 04-22-2010, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

The trouble is, there is absolutely no disincentive for them to not do the exact same thing again. Or some other similar plan. Busting them and shipping them back over the border does nothing but provide them with an education on what NOT to do next time to avoid getting caught again.

These half baked "illegal enforcement" laws are bullshit. Nothing but posturing.

If they really wanted to stop illegals from crossing over, put up a fucking wall on the border, staff it with guards and be done. It's not rocket science.

And I mean a real wall. Make it thirty feet high with the top wrapped in military grade electrified concertina wire, guard turrets, cameras, gigantic warning signs, the works.

Would certainly cost much less than all this dick chasing we've engaged in forever.

I'm not sure at the fed level... but at the AZ state level, the law that is waiting to be signed puts national guard at the border and has plans to complete the wall, 3 layer deeps in some areas, wire, cameras, and so on. It says something like, the troops stay until the border is once again secure.

woj · 04-22-2010, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

So we call them criminals because we hate them? What you just said was insanely idiotic. We call them criminals because they broke the law. Not "so what". Douche.

So you call someone who speeds or smokes a little weed a "criminal" too?

TheDoc · 04-22-2010, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

I never understood why people are so vocal about this issue. Sure they are breaking the law, but so what? Labeling them as "criminals" is a bit of a stretch, what have they done to you that you hate them so much?

Well... they are criminals, we have 'laws' for a reason. I don't hate them at all, I totally respect them and the lands they think they own.

However I also respect my fellow American, being that I fought for my Country - I love my Country.

So when illegals are coming across and killing farmers, which just happened. When drug lords raid American family homes and hold them hostage, and when Americans are affraid, dieing, and giving up land to be safe - THEN - lets not forget the tax/medical/insurance costs that they DO cost every American... then yes, I have a HUGE problem with illegals.

They're more than welcome to come - legally so they can be part of the system, just like me.

Amputate Your Head · 04-22-2010, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

I'm not sure at the fed level... but at the AZ state level, the law that is waiting to be signed puts national guard at the border and has plans to complete the wall, 3 layer deeps in some areas, wire, cameras, and so on. It says something like, the troops stay until the border is once again secure.

National Guard is a part of the military. The United States Military is not to be used as a domestic police force. It's the law. It will never pass.

We have the most technologically advanced, best equipped, deadliest, well-trained, elite fighting military machine on the face of the Earth. They cannot be used to police a border with a country we have no argument with.

But we could Federally authorize the building of said wall, and put the actual, you know, Border Patrol on the job of monitoring it.

TheDoc · 04-22-2010, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

National Guard is a part of the military. The United States Military is not to be used as a domestic police force. It's the law. It will never pass.

We have the most technologically advanced, best equipped, deadliest, well-trained, elite fighting military machine on the face of the Earth. They cannot be used to police a border with a country we have no argument with.

But we could Federally authorize the building of said wall, and put the actual, you know, Border Patrol on the job of monitoring it.

Hehe, the national guard are already here doing that - we just need more money for more troops.

"Governors may call upon Soldiers and Airmen to assist in community support, disaster relief and other local emergencies."

TheDoc · 04-22-2010, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

So you call someone who speeds or smokes a little weed a "criminal" too?

At a federal level if you were busted for having pot, then that's your problem, you're a criminal. At the state level if it's legal, I have no issues. Being that I respect that the states can control the laws.

Speeding is not criminal unless it's reckless and such.

Amputate Your Head · 04-22-2010, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

"Governors may call upon Soldiers and Airmen to assist in community support, disaster relief and other local emergencies."

The key word there is "emergencies".

But policing the U.S./Mexico border as an accepted permanent daily role for them is something else entirely. That's Border Patrol's duty.

woj · 04-22-2010, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

At a federal level if you were busted for having pot, then that's your problem, you're a criminal. At the state level if it's legal, I have no issues. Being that I respect that the states can control the laws.

Speeding is not criminal unless it's reckless and such.

Criminal = guilty of crime.
Crime = unlawful activity

Someone speeding is as much of a criminal as an illegal immigrant. Except illegal immigrants are pretty harmless, on the other hand, speeding puts people's lives in danger. So why do people care about illegal immigrants, while other forms of crime are not a problem?

TheDoc · 04-22-2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

The key word there is "emergencies".

But policing the U.S./Mexico border as an accepted permanent daily role for them is something else entirely. That's Border Patrol's duty.

Well, whatever we might think it is... they can and already do it, and have asked for 3,000 more.. This is far far far far out of Border Patrols hands.

TheDoc · 04-22-2010, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

Criminal = guilty of crime.
Crime = unlawful activity

Someone speeding is as much of a criminal as an illegal immigrant. Except illegal immigrants are pretty harmless, on the other hand, speeding puts people's lives in danger. So why do people care about illegal immigrants, while other forms of crime are not a problem?

Break it down how you like... but speeding isn't under the criminal code, it's civil - they are vastly different. Not paying the fine for speeding would be criminal though.

Harmless? Murder, drug/gun running, human trafficking is harmless?

woj · 04-22-2010, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Break it down how you like... but speeding isn't under the criminal code, it's civil - they are vastly different. Not paying the fine for speeding would be criminal though.

Harmless? Murder, drug/gun running, human trafficking is harmless?

Murderers, drug runners and human traffickers are obviously criminals and should be dealt with, but what does that have to do with the detail of whether they are legal or illegal immigrants? What do those criminals have to do with for example some illegal mexican who works as a gardener for some landscaping company? Illegal immigrant like that seems harmless, no?

Amputate Your Head · 04-22-2010, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

Murderers, drug runners and human traffickers are obviously criminals and should be dealt with, but what does that have to do with the detail of whether they are legal or illegal immigrants? What do those criminals have to do with for example some illegal mexican who works as a gardener for some landscaping company? Illegal immigrant like that seems harmless, no?

Check this out woj...
I was in this crazy debate with this moron over here a while back, and he asked me,

HE: "Well, do you think should we give medical treatment to illegals?"
ME: "Yes... of course yes. You mean like, if someone breaks their leg while working in a field or something?"
HE: "Yeah. They should get medical treatment?"
ME: "Yes.. are you daft? He's a fucking human you know."
HE: "No, he's illegal. Well, he should.. he should go to prison first, then get treatment there."
ME: "What? Are you insane?"
HE: "It's an invasion. They want us all to be Socialists."
ME: [jaw hanging open....] [face-palm] "Dude, they're just looking for a better life man. They're not plotting to overthrow California."

This actually took place, right in my very own living room. I was a little bit high and I think I freaked out a little bit... lol

TheDoc · 04-22-2010, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

Murderers, drug runners and human traffickers are obviously criminals and should be dealt with, but what does that have to do with the detail of whether they are legal or illegal immigrants? What do those criminals have to do with for example some illegal mexican who works as a gardener for some landscaping company? Illegal immigrant like that seems harmless, no?

Illegals has to do with drug runners because they use illegals to run drugs. Human trafficking is what happens when illegals come across the border, they pay people to be able to travel to the border and cross and get housing here, they are slaves afterwards - not free people. And they are often subject to being murdered by other illegals that are trafficking them, they die in mass loads on our road ways and kill Americans/Cops with the stupidity, and they murder Americans while they pass through American owned property..

If a person would break the law to get here, break the law to stay here, what makes you think they wouldn't break the law to do something else? Like not pay taxes for example, the company doesn't pay taxes, workers comp, you have to pay for an American that can't get a job, extra taxes.... when does it stop?

You people have an odd fantasy land in your head of what's really going on - maybe you should come visit.

Amputate Your Head · 04-22-2010, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

you have to pay for an American that can't get a job, extra taxes.... when does it stop?

What about all the actual Americans that can't (or won't) get a job or pay taxes?
Wasn't the percentage reported recently something like, 40% of Americans are paying ALL the taxes?

Illegals are hardly the problem. At least the illegals aren't sucking the welfare & unemployment coffers dry like the non-working, non-tax paying Americans.

TheDoc · 04-22-2010, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

..............

Questions?

theking · 04-22-2010, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

The key word there is "emergencies".

But policing the U.S./Mexico border as an accepted permanent daily role for them is something else entirely. That's Border Patrol's duty.

The National Guard has previously been deployed to the border for an extended period of time and by all accounts were a very successful deterrent while they were there.

TheDoc · 04-22-2010, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

What about all the actual Americans that can't (or won't) get a job or pay taxes?
Wasn't the percentage reported recently something like, 40% of Americans are paying ALL the taxes?

Illegals are hardly the problem. At least the illegals aren't sucking the welfare & unemployment coffers dry like the non-working, non-tax paying Americans.

Well the people that can't, I support the social programs that support them and for everyone that has worked, they paid into those programs to use them, so I support that too. The people that won't, I can't solve other than through my votes. And people that don't pay taxes, we have laws for.

People that legally don't have to pay taxes, I support... I know several people that have setup life so only one person pays taxes and they pay none... statistics, pfft.

30 million illegals and you don't think that's a problem? Have you looked at the State of California?

Amputate Your Head · 04-22-2010, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theking

The National Guard has previously been deployed to the border for an extended period of time and by all accounts were a very successful deterrent while they were there.

Whether or not they were successful isn't the point. It's not their role and it's not a long term solution. It's a bandaid.

Amputate Your Head · 04-22-2010, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Well the people that can't, I support the social programs that support them and for everyone that has worked, they paid into those programs to use them, so I support that too. The people that won't, I can't solve other than through my votes. And people that don't pay taxes, we have laws for.

People that legally don't have to pay taxes, I support... I know several people that have setup life so only one person pays taxes and they pay none... statistics, pfft.

30 million illegals and you don't think that's a problem? Have you looked at the State of California?

I'm not suggesting that the illegal immigration isn't a problem. I'm saying it's not THE problem. It's a symptom. Fix the cause and the symptom goes away.

TheDoc · 04-22-2010, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

I'm not suggesting that the illegal immigration isn't a problem. I'm saying it's not THE problem. It's a symptom. Fix the cause and the symptom goes away.

The cause of the problem is poverty in Mexico. We don't have this problem with Canada. We can't correct this problem, we can only control it.

We can spend billions more on a wall, we can make it tougher for people to employee them, we can make it tougher for them to be here, we can protect the border more to make it so they are afraid to come here.

This and more has been going on to 'solve' the problem as best as we can without posting a full military force to occupy the border or tax us to death building a trillion dollar wall 1/3 of the away across the country. Some more troops, funds, corrections in the wall, a few layers and tougher immigration laws is exactly what we need.

Btw, the National Guard can enforce federal laws... that's how they have the power to do this.

Barefootsies · 04-22-2010, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

The day you are forced to carry ID, is the day you lost WW2.

True dat

Barefootsies · 04-22-2010, 07:43 PM

A Hundie Sweet Deals.

Sig.

The Demon · 04-22-2010, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

Murderers, drug runners and human traffickers are obviously criminals and should be dealt with, but what does that have to do with the detail of whether they are legal or illegal immigrants? What do those criminals have to do with for example some illegal mexican who works as a gardener for some landscaping company? Illegal immigrant like that seems harmless, no?

Look up the word 'criminal' and how it pertains to the penal code.

04-22-2010, 02:15 PM	#57
TheSenator Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 13,334	Yeah, more government intervention....hmmmm I wonder where the Tea Party stands on this? __________________ ISeekGirls.com since 2005

04-22-2010, 02:36 PM	#61
Cyber Fucker Hmm Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: On an endless road around the world for rock and roll. Posts: 12,642	Nice.... my illegal polish/english speaking ass doesn't want to go USA anyway. I'm fine here where I am. __________________

04-22-2010, 07:43 PM	#91
Barefootsies Choice is an Illusion Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Land of Obama Posts: 42,635	A Hundie Sweet Deals. Sig. __________________ Should You Email Your Members? Link1 \| Link2 \| Link3 Enough Said. "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

04-22-2010, 12:38 PM	#51
Dirty Dane Sick Fuck Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: www Posts: 9,491	The day you are forced to carry ID, is the day you lost WW2.