why it's hard to make money on the Internet - GoFuckYourself.com

mgtarheels · 05-01-2010, 09:19 PM

How'd you get the graph?

Jim_Gunn · 05-01-2010, 09:34 PM

Make no mistake, Mutt. Despite the commonality of people searching for "free", this fight is definitely going to make a lot of gate and PPV money and other revenue streams like cable tv broadcast. So I wouldn't use this as a good example of why it's hard to make money on the internet.

mgtarheels · 05-01-2010, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim_Gunn

Make no mistake, Mutt. Despite the commonality of people searching for "free", this fight is definitely going to make a lot of gate and PPV money and other revenue streams like cable tv broadcast. So I wouldn't use this as a good example of why it's hard to make money on the internet.

Mayweather is getting over $40m

Mutt · 05-01-2010, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim_Gunn

Make no mistake, Mutt. Despite the commonality of people searching for "free", this fight is definitely going to make a lot of gate and PPV money and other revenue streams like cable tv broadcast. So I wouldn't use this as a good example of why it's hard to make money on the internet.

true but for porn, we don't have ANY of those other streams off the Internet - well we do but the money to be made from those offline revenue streams is not enough - the PPV companies don't pay enough, the satellite/cable channels the same, DVD sales are dwindling

the venue where 90% of our money is made is the Internet where FREE is the name of the game

leg4 · 05-01-2010, 10:46 PM

Mutt, do you run SFN?

LoveSandra · 05-01-2010, 11:27 PM

nice ..........

Mutt · 05-02-2010, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leg4

Mutt, do you run SFN?

nope - that's another Mutt - he's still running that forum? damn it's gotta be over 10 years. i talked to him years ago.

Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life · 05-02-2010, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgtarheels

How'd you get the graph?

TrainWreckContent · 05-02-2010, 01:16 AM

its tough to make money any were these days look at the unemployment rate in the US its crazy

Paul Markham · 05-02-2010, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt

true but for porn, we don't have ANY of those other streams off the Internet - well we do but the money to be made from those offline revenue streams is not enough - the PPV companies don't pay enough, the satellite/cable channels the same, DVD sales are dwindling

the venue where 90% of our money is made is the Internet where FREE is the name of the game

So we need to up our game as an industry. We had it too easy in the beginning and now can't think beyond doing the same.

Comparing this fight with what we sell is a bit off as well.

plsureking · 05-02-2010, 01:59 AM

ya the old game is over. porn is now free - for the most part anyway.

surfers with money and standards still pay for premium quality erotica or niche, but the majority are happy watching the crappy free porn. making money from generic hardcore paysites is over. if you make or sell that, its over for you. if you sell niche or hq erotic, u are probably wondering what the gfy trolls are bitching about.

case in point - mattsmodels.com owner/fag Matt fired me and owes me $18k (he will never pay) cuz his sales are gone an he lost his house. eroberlin.com sales are DOUBLING every month since it opened in September. shitty, generic content versus hq niche erotica.

thats as much as i can reveal about the new adult economy..

Agent 488 · 05-02-2010, 02:04 AM

sell free. hit their cards. who cares.

Mutt · 05-02-2010, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So we need to up our game as an industry. We had it too easy in the beginning and now can't think beyond doing the same.

Comparing this fight with what we sell is a bit off as well.

my point with the fight is that people by the millions are now trained that anything they want to watch is available for free someplace on the Internet.

you could step up your game, produce something great and innovative, and millions would be searching where to get it for free. that is a huge problem. the only way to succeed is if enough people love the product you've produced a small % of people will still rather pay for it because the convenience, and some because they feel morally obligated to. I know a few people like that, they still exist, but they are 40+ - younger people, they don't care, they're growing up with this notion that anything that's digital should be free

Mutt · 05-02-2010, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plsureking

case in point - mattsmodels.com owner/fag Matt fired me and owes me $18k (he will never pay) cuz his sales are gone an he lost his house. eroberlin.com sales are DOUBLING every month since it opened in September. shitty, generic content versus hq niche erotica.

Matt's content was meant to be amateurish no? He literally was one of the first to shoot amateur teen content for the Internet. Matt failed because he was one of the early guys, they didn't need affiliates, didn't really need to do much of their own traffic generation. Tons of programs followed Matt and shot the same girls the same way and some offered way more girls than Matt. When Matt started an affiliate program I'm sure it didn't help much because Matt never had to network with other webmasters much cuz it was so easy when he started. A dinosaur - plus he probably burned out on the shit long ago - i know he had other shooters shooting for him for years.

plsureking · 05-02-2010, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt

my point with the fight is that people by the millions are now trained that anything they want to watch is available for free someplace on the Internet.

another insight for you, this is only in the US (and countries that never buy anyway, like China). EU customers buy a lot of porn - young and old.

plsureking · 05-02-2010, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt

A dinosaur

ya definitely a dinosaur and burned out. he barely worked in 2009. always was on vacation or surfing or drumming somewhere. of course he blamed the crash of the company on me tho.

he had plenty of affiliates, thousands of them since at least 2005 when i came on board. the problem with that is 85-90% of sales were affiliate sales. that drops your profit really low when sales go down more that 70% from 2008 to 2009.

customers always complained about quality and the sheer boringness of his videos and photos. amateur doesn't have to mean poor quality, but the guy has no talent. the site was too large to be usable too. all things i tried to fix, but he resisted change.

i was at hegre when it started and mattsmodels was never that big. hegre was making several million a year from the start. matt never came close to 7 figures - ever. he may be a legend and started the amateur thing, but its still just amateur, which equals low quality garbage.

its not really amateur if the girls are on every other site. then it just means you cant shoot.

would have been nice to get the money he owes me, but now he needs it more than me. no talent and no job skills other than drumming. his last years are gonna suck.

raven1083 · 05-02-2010, 02:44 AM

its pretty cool!

Mutt · 05-02-2010, 02:48 AM

he's not that old. 45? 50? well money isn't everything to some people, maybe he'll live in a van by the beach.

if you started in 2005 you weren't around in Matt's heyday. Years and years ago I talked to somebody who was tight with Matt and had seen his stats, he told me Matt at his peak had 13,000 members - that's a couple mil in profits.

you did what at Hegre? how is Hegre doing today? A photog friend of mine had a membership to Hegre Art and let me use his password - the site looks amazing on the tour, but when I looked at the actual content, not very impressed. Photos didn't look like they had been edited, some i remember even had red eye. Same thing with this new artsy nude site X-Art.com, looks fantastic on the tour but inside, pretty weak content.

Mutt · 05-02-2010, 02:49 AM

about how many members are left at MattsModels?

he should take all the vast amount of content and do a tube site with it, he'd need somebody smart though to monetize it.

onwebcam · 05-02-2010, 02:54 AM

Bar I went to spent $1500 to show the (lame) fight.. Internet has nothing to do with it.. Unless you can tap into it..

Paul Markham · 05-02-2010, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plsureking

ya the old game is over. porn is now free - for the most part anyway.

surfers with money and standards still pay for premium quality erotica or niche, but the majority are happy watching the crappy free porn. making money from generic hardcore paysites is over. if you make or sell that, its over for you. if you sell niche or hq erotic, u are probably wondering what the gfy trolls are bitching about.

case in point - mattsmodels.com owner/fag Matt fired me and owes me $18k (he will never pay) cuz his sales are gone an he lost his house. eroberlin.com sales are DOUBLING every month since it opened in September. shitty, generic content versus hq niche erotica.

thats as much as i can reveal about the new adult economy..

Very true. But how many can afford or have the skills to shoot HQ?

Mutt explained it perfectly as well regarding new guys not stepping up in the game. It's no good shooting the same girls or even different girls the same way as everyone else these days. Then if you have a product like that it's worthwhile to protect it.

plsureking · 05-02-2010, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt

about how many members are left at MattsModels?

he should take all the vast amount of content and do a tube site with it, he'd need somebody smart though to monetize it.

supposedly he was in talks to sell the content, but his estimate of the value doesn't match what anyone else thinks. i tried to find him a buyer but then he accused me of purposely trying to lower the value of the site so i could buy it.

he had under a couple hundred members when i got booted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt

if you started in 2005 you weren't around in Matt's heyday. Years and years ago I talked to somebody who was tight with Matt and had seen his stats, he told me Matt at his peak had 13,000 members - that's a couple mil in profits.

whoever told u that was full of shit. i did sales analysis all the way back to the start in 1999 and he never did more than $25k gross a month. i've got spreadsheets to prove it.

every site owner lies about their sales. u can only find out the truth when they fuck over their loyal webmaster and he goes public with the stats lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt

you did what at Hegre? how is Hegre doing today?

wrote a lot of code, built Galitsin and Vulis sites, and did tons of marketing and content work. oh and made a lot of money lol

Hegre's site still pulls in a few million a year according to the guys there.

Mutt · 05-02-2010, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plsureking

whoever told u that was full of shit. i did sales analysis all the way back to the start in 1999 and he never did more than $25k gross a month. i've got spreadsheets to prove it.
.

that really surprises me.

Paul Markham · 05-02-2010, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plsureking

supposedly he was in talks to sell the content, but his estimate of the value doesn't match what anyone else thinks. i tried to find him a buyer but then he accused me of purposely trying to lower the value of the site so i could buy it.

he had under a couple hundred members when i got booted.

whoever told u that was full of shit. i did sales analysis all the way back to the start in 1999 and he never did more than $25k gross a month. i've got spreadsheets to prove it.

every site owner lies about their sales. u can only find out the truth when they fuck over their loyal webmaster and he goes public with the stats lol

wrote a lot of code, built Galitsin and Vulis sites, and did tons of marketing and content work. oh and made a lot of money lol

Hegre's site still pulls in a few million a year according to the guys there.

Whoops.

Joshua G · 05-02-2010, 05:47 AM

until the web can match the quality/reliability of cable delivered video, there will be a reason to pay for the content.

CaptainHowdy · 05-02-2010, 06:59 AM

I want to watch it for free too

...

seoguyzzz · 05-02-2010, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgtarheels

How'd you get the graph?

i want to know same.

Lassitor · 05-02-2010, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plsureking

...

i was at hegre when it started and mattsmodels was never that big. hegre was making several million a year from the start. matt never came close to 7 figures - ever. he may be a legend and started the amateur thing, but its still just amateur, which equals low quality garbage.
...

Interesting discussion. I am having the same discussion with a local porn producer who is seeing growth but is limited by her videographer, who shoots very amateur video. She was told by some content buyers to upgrade her quality before they be interested in buying. I have been trying to convincer to have my company shoot her video (We have high end cameras, lights and skills) but she is worried about the cost and burning relationships with the current videographer. Last message I got from her was wanting to RENT my gear so her current videographer can shoot with it.

90% of the free stuff I see is poorly shot video and photos with your run of the mill hotties. Honestly, there is no value in that stuff other than offering it for free and hope that the viewers like the ads that run along side the vids.

Most porn surfers I know will buy HQ porn if it has something that appeals to them, like one hell of a fuck scene or some super hot and beautiful bodies.

plsureking · 05-02-2010, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lassitor

Last message I got from her was wanting to RENT my gear so her current videographer can shoot with it.

way out of my expertise. i only code and market. Paul would be the content expert

seeandsee · 05-02-2010, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt

no money agree

dyna mo · 05-02-2010, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plsureking

ya definitely a dinosaur and burned out. he barely worked in 2009. always was on vacation or surfing or drumming somewhere. of course he blamed the crash of the company on me tho.

he had plenty of affiliates, thousands of them since at least 2005 when i came on board. the problem with that is 85-90% of sales were affiliate sales. that drops your profit really low when sales go down more that 70% from 2008 to 2009.

customers always complained about quality and the sheer boringness of his videos and photos. amateur doesn't have to mean poor quality, but the guy has no talent. the site was too large to be usable too. all things i tried to fix, but he resisted change.

i was at hegre when it started and mattsmodels was never that big. hegre was making several million a year from the start. matt never came close to 7 figures - ever. he may be a legend and started the amateur thing, but its still just amateur, which equals low quality garbage.

its not really amateur if the girls are on every other site. then it just means you cant shoot.

would have been nice to get the money he owes me, but now he needs it more than me. no talent and no job skills other than drumming. his last years are gonna suck.

back when i worked with matt he blamed his dad being sick for his lack of follow-through. was that not the case?

Dappz · 05-02-2010, 09:53 AM

yeah still there is much more money in porn................

plsureking · 05-02-2010, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

back when i worked with matt he blamed his dad being sick for his lack of follow-through. was that not the case?

unlikely. the guy is a lazy piece of shit. for this i have written proof lol

Bman · 05-02-2010, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt

you did what at Hegre? how is Hegre doing today? A photog friend of mine had a membership to Hegre Art and let me use his password - the site looks amazing on the tour, but when I looked at the actual content, not very impressed. Photos didn't look like they had been edited, some i remember even had red eye. Same thing with this new artsy nude site X-Art.com, looks fantastic on the tour but inside, pretty weak content.

I noticed the same thing on sites..
However I can see with some people who are ordering what is obviously working and what isnt.
A lot of it is common sense. and a lof of the people failing is because of lack of quality.

Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life · 05-02-2010, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seoguyzzz

i want to know same.

and you offer seo services? holy omfg...

PornMD · 05-02-2010, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

and you offer seo services? holy omfg...

Seriously.

It's hard to make money on the internet because of worthless dicks proclaiming to be "experts" who then fuck people over and make them think twice about spending their money, and especially in SEO there has to be about 1000 of these people for every 1 legitimate SEO person.

Argos88 · 05-02-2010, 08:43 PM

dont ever try to make some people here understand that you cant make money if it's available for free.

some fucker will come and say: "but you can make money with HD! or full HD"... bullshit.. THE GROSS of people dont care about HD. if they get it free for lower quality... FACT... im not saying this.. numbers are.

same as with adult.. u say how can you sell paysite memberships with illegal sites like pornbb or extreme-board.. and some idiot come in and say: "thats because u dont know how to sell, dont blame the tubes"... obviously they are the same owners of illegal porn sites.. thats for sure. so, don't even bother, dude...

we, webmasters are our worst enemy.

Bman · 05-02-2010, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plsureking

ya the old game is over. porn is now free - for the most part anyway.

surfers with money and standards still pay for premium quality erotica or niche, but the majority are happy watching the crappy free porn. making money from generic hardcore paysites is over. if you make or sell that, its over for you. if you sell niche or hq erotic, u are probably wondering what the gfy trolls are bitching about.

case in point - mattsmodels.com owner/fag Matt fired me and owes me $18k (he will never pay) cuz his sales are gone an he lost his house. eroberlin.com sales are DOUBLING every month since it opened in September. shitty, generic content versus hq niche erotica.

thats as much as i can reveal about the new adult economy..

lots there that is interesting I would also toss out different delivery platforms and billing options...

05-01-2010, 09:15 PM	#1
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	why it's hard to make money on the Internet __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

05-01-2010, 09:34 PM	#3
Jim_Gunn Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Where The Teens Are Posts: 5,702	Make no mistake, Mutt. Despite the commonality of people searching for "free", this fight is definitely going to make a lot of gate and PPV money and other revenue streams like cable tv broadcast. So I wouldn't use this as a good example of why it's hard to make money on the internet. __________________ Jim Gunn Filming Cinematic Porn Skype JimGunnProductions

05-01-2010, 10:46 PM	#6
leg4 Confirmed User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 4,429	Mutt, do you run SFN? __________________ >>> Contact me here email me here

05-02-2010, 01:16 AM	#10
TrainWreckContent Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Under a Train Wreck Posts: 8,127	its tough to make money any were these days look at the unemployment rate in the US its crazy __________________ Train Wreck Content Telegram @DanTrainwreck / Whatsapp TrainWreck / Email [email protected]

05-02-2010, 01:59 AM	#12
plsureking bored Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Metaverse Posts: 4,675	ya the old game is over. porn is now free - for the most part anyway. surfers with money and standards still pay for premium quality erotica or niche, but the majority are happy watching the crappy free porn. making money from generic hardcore paysites is over. if you make or sell that, its over for you. if you sell niche or hq erotic, u are probably wondering what the gfy trolls are bitching about. case in point - mattsmodels.com owner/fag Matt fired me and owes me $18k (he will never pay) cuz his sales are gone an he lost his house. eroberlin.com sales are DOUBLING every month since it opened in September. shitty, generic content versus hq niche erotica. thats as much as i can reveal about the new adult economy.. __________________ #

05-01-2010, 09:19 PM	#2
mgtarheels Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Daytona Beach, FL Posts: 1,317	How'd you get the graph?

05-01-2010, 11:27 PM	#7
LoveSandra So Fucking Banned Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Just Blow Me Posts: 10,551	nice ..........

05-02-2010, 02:04 AM	#13
Agent 488 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 22,511	sell free. hit their cards. who cares.

05-02-2010, 02:44 AM	#18
raven1083 Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 7,687	its pretty cool! __________________ Femdom Stories \| Bound BBW Blog and Videos \|Bondage Sex Videos and Pictures Hardcore Japanese Bondage \| BDSM Movies And Galleries Mistress Cuckold CBT

05-02-2010, 02:48 AM	#19
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	he's not that old. 45? 50? well money isn't everything to some people, maybe he'll live in a van by the beach. if you started in 2005 you weren't around in Matt's heyday. Years and years ago I talked to somebody who was tight with Matt and had seen his stats, he told me Matt at his peak had 13,000 members - that's a couple mil in profits. you did what at Hegre? how is Hegre doing today? A photog friend of mine had a membership to Hegre Art and let me use his password - the site looks amazing on the tour, but when I looked at the actual content, not very impressed. Photos didn't look like they had been edited, some i remember even had red eye. Same thing with this new artsy nude site X-Art.com, looks fantastic on the tour but inside, pretty weak content. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

05-02-2010, 02:49 AM	#20
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	about how many members are left at MattsModels? he should take all the vast amount of content and do a tube site with it, he'd need somebody smart though to monetize it. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

05-02-2010, 02:54 AM	#21
onwebcam Fake Nick 1.0 Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Rent free, your head Posts: 27,653	Bar I went to spent $1500 to show the (lame) fight.. Internet has nothing to do with it.. Unless you can tap into it.. __________________ PLEASE WAIT WHILE BIDEN ADMIN UNINSTALLS ITSELF..... ██████████████████▒ 99.5% complete. Last edited by onwebcam; 05-02-2010 at 02:58 AM..

05-02-2010, 05:47 AM	#26
Joshua G dumb libs love censorship Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 8,198	until the web can match the quality/reliability of cable delivered video, there will be a reason to pay for the content. Last edited by Joshua G; 05-02-2010 at 05:51 AM..

05-02-2010, 06:59 AM	#27
CaptainHowdy Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Happy in the dark. Posts: 93,018	I want to watch it for free too ... __________________ FLASH SALE INSANITY! deal with a 100% Trusted Seller Buy Traffic Spots on a High-Quality Network 1 Year or Lifetime — That’s Right, Until the Internet Explodes!

05-02-2010, 09:53 AM	#33
Dappz Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 997	yeah still there is much more money in porn................ __________________ Hentai Artist * Draw My Anime * HentaiLovers * hentaiG4H * ICQ : 657458

05-02-2010, 08:43 PM	#38
Argos88 So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,732	dont ever try to make some people here understand that you cant make money if it's available for free. some fucker will come and say: "but you can make money with HD! or full HD"... bullshit.. THE GROSS of people dont care about HD. if they get it free for lower quality... FACT... im not saying this.. numbers are. same as with adult.. u say how can you sell paysite memberships with illegal sites like pornbb or extreme-board.. and some idiot come in and say: "thats because u dont know how to sell, dont blame the tubes"... obviously they are the same owners of illegal porn sites.. thats for sure. so, don't even bother, dude... we, webmasters are our worst enemy.