Why are so many programs dying off?

[Loch]

So what do you think?

[Barefootsies]

It takes a lot more than being BRO and playing the traffic numbers game in 2010.

[Chosen]

Nice poll

[babymaker]

Only so many times u can shoot a bitch on a fucking couch in porn vallery exclusive or not its the same goddamn video lol its burned out

[TheDoc]

From what I can tell, it appears the more recent bigger programs closing all quit updating long ago and surprising had less exclusive content than I thought. You can't complete in todays market if you're not at least updating.

[JD]

huge pps is a good part of the reason shit is the way it is now... imo...

[digitaldivas]

Originally Posted by JD

huge pps is a good part of the reason shit is the way it is now... imo...

...I think that is a part, but not all, JD!

[Dappz]

because they afraid loosing money now ;)

[JustDaveXxx]

Originally Posted by babymaker

Only so many times u can shoot a bitch on a fucking couch in porn vallery exclusive or not its the same goddamn video lol its burned out

And you can find it for free at any tube site.


The consumer can get fair to good quality content for free and never have to worry about getting his card banged out.


He can type in the search bar girls name, or type of porn he or she likes and never enter in a user name and pass word. Why would he want to pay? Its gonna slow him down from his goal, which is to get off, now!


Serious innovation that the tube sites cant rip easy. Im thinking 3D is gonna be the next thing to make money as long as porn people dont fuck it up as they do everything else.

[$5 submissions]

Shouldn't the answer options also include the recent VISA/MC term changes?

[Loch]

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

Shouldn't the answer options also include the recent VISA/MC term changes?

No, all they really did was prevent grey zones and direct fraud the way i see it

IMHO this has a LOT to do with a combination of things...ill list a few ovious ones only as im tire and on my way out ....

1. Programs started carding, cheating and scamming HARD
2. People started to realyze
3. Tubes came arround so unless you have a VERY specific reason to BUY porn a LOT of surfers are taking the safe free porn although its not GREAT quality

[cardinalvices]

Did somebody count how many jobless people are out there today?

[$5 submissions]

Good points, Loch.

It was the PERFECT STORM. Before tubes, surfers had to put up with the carding/card banging shenanigans.

Originally Posted by Loch

IMHO this has a LOT to do with a combination of things...ill list a few ovious ones only as im tire and on my way out ....

1. Programs started carding, cheating and scamming HARD
2. People started to realyze
3. Tubes came arround so unless you have a VERY specific reason to BUY porn a LOT of surfers are taking the safe free porn although its not GREAT quality

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by cardinalvices

Did somebody count how many jobless people are out there today?

There were many jobless in 2000-2002 as well but paysites didn't die off. No tubes back then though.

[NickB.]

"a lot of programs should have done manual webmaster approval a long time ago"

All I have to say about this

[Marcus Aurelius]

Because no more cross-sales means they can't scam surfers for extra profits.

[Loch]

Tubes saved the surfers CC worries.....how damn ironic huh

So who is really the bad guy here

[Argos88]

Add a new option:

"Because you can't pretend to make money trying to sell something that is available for free everywhere"

.

[Loch]

Originally Posted by Argos88

Add a new option:

"Because you can't pretend to make money trying to sell something that is available for free everywhere"

.

I sell to loyal & legal clients every day.
Sorry if you dont have the right clients, but your statement does not make sense.

The tubes have a LOT, but there is also a LOT that they do not have

[TeenCat]

except adult profit, is there any other program that closes doors and will be really missed? i mean program with real sites, not some weg with members areas looking worst that some shitty free site ... i see only crap closing, but i see quality sites with quality material are born daily ... lets cry people, it is still not enough ... i can also cut my legs and then cry that i cannot run ... cry people cry and dont forget to cry with doing nothing, it will make the best effect ...

[Loch]

Originally Posted by TeenCat

except adult profit, is there any other program that closes doors and will be really missed? i mean program with real sites, not some weg with members areas looking worst that some shitty free site ... i see only crap closing, but i see quality sites with quality material are born daily ... lets cry people, it is still not enough ... i can also cut my legs and then cry that i cannot run ... cry people cry and dont forget to cry with doing nothing, it will make the best effect ...

I miss the gay raindeer

[Jack Sparrow]

Fun to see the results right now.

[Realgfs]

I think they do it to stay alive.. But from our experience, the affiliates are what keeps this business alive..

[Peter Romero]

Everyone is held captive to the same ole same old. It's a time tested tradition - adapt or die. I'm offering program owners custom exclusive content 2 for 1 and none of the biggies that are going under contacted me. How stupid. Why is everyone glued to the bro system? $1200 for the girl, $600 for the guy, $500 for the same porn studio or porn location, and $100 to an agent who doesn't want this all to change. It's still the same scenes, same talent all shot the same way. How fuckin boring! And this is exactly what the surfer thinks. STOP making the same old egg salad and selling it as "The new thing" everyone knows it's been all over the rooster cage and in the sun!!! And mayo on a hot day will kill ya! Yeah, you got your STARS... but those are STARS!!! The top 2%. Day players need to be replaced, they were only here for the money and now we see them counting ceiling tiles in the middle of the ooh's & Ah's because they didn't get "Thier $900 rate" that they once did when they were brand new. Every day some new hot girl turns 18 and wants to make some quick, easy money... and every day some guy is sick of his same old porn collection and wants something (and someone) new to jerk off to. Put the 2 together, it's your job. Or go work at Home Depot.

[Ross]

Originally Posted by Loch

No, all they really did was prevent grey zones and direct fraud the way i see it

IMHO this has a LOT to do with a combination of things...ill list a few ovious ones only as im tire and on my way out ....

1. Programs started carding, cheating and scamming HARD

It was 3-4 programmes who practically killed consumer confidence.

[Agent 488]

once a program of consequence goes down, start another poll.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by babymaker

Only so many times u can shoot a bitch on a fucking couch in porn vallery exclusive or not its the same goddamn video lol its burned out

And this applies to most of the DVD industry as well.

Most programs/distributors refuse to pay the price it costs to shoot something better. The great shooters from the past have left or thinking of leaving. Because they made enough money in the good times or will make more money shooting weddings at the weekend than most shooters make in a week doing custom.

It costs money and takes real talent to shoot something innovative. You don't get that for a cut price deal.

[Paul Markham]

I chose the lack of innovation from programs. Because I see so little of it from them. They continue to have sites that have changed little in the last 10 years. Other than some getting bigger and having HD what has changed?

Unless paysites change and become something the consumer wants to sign up to the decline will continue.

And please don't blame free porn. The last thing that keeps Tubes sites alive is people who don't spend money on the Internet. They make a profit from people BUYING STUFF ON THE INTERNET. People we seem to have lost the ability to sell to.

[geedub]

Every program that has closed up shop so far was a pile of shit. Adult Profit was nice but we all know in reality celebrity sites are shit.

[fatfoo]

They are not innovative enough.

[BFT3K]

Too much free content...

WAY too much FREE fucking content!

[DateDoc]

Some are in trouble but I think you will find some are just using the "current economic environment" to ditch affiliate programs and keep more of the money in house.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by Argos88

Add a new option:

"Because you can't pretend to make money trying to sell something that is available for free everywhere"

.

That's preposterous. The bottled water companies do it every single day and are making billions selling you the exact same thing you can get from your tap for free at any time.

[blonda80]

too much free content, sponsors getting lazy etc etc etc

[sortie]

Originally Posted by Loch

So what do you think?

The program owners are the only ones who pay for content which has been
made almost worthless by copyright violators.

It's hard to make a living by continuing to invest in product that becomes worthless
within 72 hours of release.

End of Story.

[datatank]

processing

[LAJ]

Because some people in this industry just simply don't know how to run a business.

[seeandsee]

Because of the fucking tubes, which btw are thriving?

[Porno Dan]

Originally Posted by JustDaveXxx

And you can find it for free at any tube site.

The consumer can get fair to good quality content for free and never have to worry about getting his card banged out.

He can type in the search bar girls name, or type of porn he or she likes and never enter in a user name and pass word. Why would he want to pay? Its gonna slow him down from his goal, which is to get off, now!

Serious innovation that the tube sites cant rip easy. Im thinking 3D is gonna be the next thing to make money as long as porn people dont fuck it up as they do everything else.

I am in total agreement with you.

[Loch]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I chose the lack of innovation from programs. Because I see so little of it from them. They continue to have sites that have changed little in the last 10 years. Other than some getting bigger and having HD what has changed?

Unless paysites change and become something the consumer wants to sign up to the decline will continue.

And please don't blame free porn. The last thing that keeps Tubes sites alive is people who don't spend money on the Internet. They make a profit from people BUYING STUFF ON THE INTERNET. People we seem to have lost the ability to sell to.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by LAJ

Because some people in this industry just simply don't know how to run a business.

[kristin]

Lack of updates, no innovation, no sales force, no new tools.

[96ukssob]

programs always made money promoting internally through their own traffic. dropping affiliates is just a way to stop the saturation of their content

[fuzebox]

All of the above?

[Loch]

Originally Posted by fuzebox

All of the above?

May very well be

[harvey]

All of the above apply. Not all reasons were mentioned, though

[milambur]

Had to pick all, but I think it is a natural evolution of the business model. Some programs will die, others will stop working with affiliates since they are able to generate enough sales on their own. Those who keep their affiliate programs will probably have to change to revshare to be able to run a risk free operation.

[Overload]

simply because todays porn is ... BORING! serious, its just plain fucking ... no plot, no fun ... i still remember the very first porn movie i have ever seen ... it was a german production that made me laugh big time - why? it was a funny story about an au pair girl and everyone got to fuck but not to jizz because there always was something disturbing the acting pair ... like this: a young blond (that au pair girl) hitchhiked and the driver of the VW bus drove straight into the woods, starting to rip her outta her clothes and when they were fucking, she kept yelling "dont, dont ... dont rape me" - and when he stopped for a sec and asked if she took the "pill" she replied "of coz, man!" so he started cramming her again until a cop knocked on the window just when he was about to come ... "drivers license, id card plz" ... the whole movie was FUN to watch - other than todays ol' in and out crap ...

[harvey]

I will be more explicit, even though I won't tell all the story since it won't apply in some cases and it may get kinda tedious.

1- Those of you who think most programs are "dying"... well, I've a bridge I can sell you for cheap, mint condition. Just send $10,000 to my paypal account [email protected] I won't go further on this, just take your own conclusions.

2- Those that are really dying... well, there are several reasons. I think the most important ones (more or less in this order) are:

• lack of innovation
• lack of professional help
• trend following
• poor money management
• global economics
  

The first one doesn't even need explanation. It's a given and it's directly related to second and third item. The main problem is that most adult businesses were and still are ran by enthusiastic people with certain specific skills, including being in the right place at the right time. With the addition of more actors, some of them with more skills, some of them getting professionals within their crews, competition gets harder, and even those companies with higher budgets will suffer against smart-ran businesses. In any case, higher budgets will mean higher losses (at least in proportion). See if you recognize any of these business models, which belongs to who and which one will make more money in the long term:

BUSINESS MODEL 1
CEO: original porn fan with contacts and experience
Marketing Manager: a Bro with contacts (hopefully). Usually, no marketing qualifications whatsoever.
Brand Manager: a self taught designer that goes always for the safe path. Usually very qualified and high quality work, but never out of the herd.
Development: What??????
Sales Person/s: one or two skilled and professional persons relying on the power of the brand that holds them. Tremendously poor communication skills and times (unless it's on public boards)

BUSINESS MODEL 2
CEO: highly educated newcomer or porn fan willing to take risks and innovate. Experience and contacts aren't an influential factor.
Marketing Manager: Experienced marketing professional (formally educated or by experience) with development background
Brand Manager: Experienced self-taught out-of-the-box designer or formally educated designer with at least 3-4 years experience
Development: Designers and coders working together. Existing development budget
Sales Persons: many hungry people working by results

Both of those models exists TO THE A and we all know that. Furthermore, these models are almost stereotypes (think on any adult company and you'll see most of them will fall in one or the other category, with a 3rd category we'd call "in between"). Now think about the companies closing, or even those not closing but with poorer results every single day. See in what business model they will fall.

Now, I don't want to go with the "I told you so" story, but I need it to explain things a little: I didn't predict this state of business or what would happen to affiliate model more than 1 year ago because I have a crystal ball. I did because I've information (like many people here) which when used within business development models (plus some common sense or call it intuition) gave me the results you're seeing now.

Take a look at the following :

Key Dimensions ------ 1) Low Marketing Influence Characteristics ---------------- 2) Marketing Driven Businesses Characteristics


Top-management objectives 1) Focused on current stock price, earnings per share, cost reduction, market share, sales volume.
2) Focused on long-term growth in revenue, profitability, EPS and cash flow.

Orientation and functional background of CEO 1) Little or no marketing experience; focused on financial community.
2) Deep understanding of marketing; compelling vision of customer value. Advocate for the customer


Top-management priorities 1) Cost reduction and labor productivity.
2) Customers, resellers and key accounts. Market information and tracking data are key management tools.


Growth strategy 1) Growth achieved through mergers and acquisitions.
2) Growth achieved through serious commitment to research and development, product innovation.

Role of brands 1) Strong brands used as cash cows to fund acquisitions, growth strategy.
2) Substantial investment to build and maintain brand equity.

Focus of new product development 1) Product-focused and technology-focused
2) Customer analysis is hard-wired into product development.


This was written in 2004. Don't you think it applies perfectly to our industry as it is now? Both business models exists today, both are successful and they may even co-exist in a same company or holding group. However, IMHO the first model can exist only if the human resources are 100% professionals. It took longer in adult because of the characteristics of our industry, but now (again, IN MY HUMBLE OPINION) it's impossible to deny it

sorry for the long post, just my and yadda yadda yadda

[harvey]

Originally Posted by Overload

simply because todays porn is ... BORING!

this.

I was going to add this in a different post to avoid mixing with the previous one.

and finally, most answers are in front of the companies/individuals noses (I'm talking about programs), these answers are slapping them and making noises to call their attention and quite honestly, I think some of these companies already saw those answers. However, until someone else puts those answers in action, these companies won't do anything because they're extremely afraid of innovation and consider it a bad word. Hell, I'd take their existing boring cookie cutter sites as they are and improve conversions by doing a couple of minor (yet never seen before) changes, let alone if they change their business models for a smarter one