Forbes.com quote: "Auditing firm doubts Private/Gamelink's ability to survive..."

[Barefootsies]

Cliff Notes:
Disruptive digital technologies have struck a near-death blow to big players in the porn business. There's no better example than Barcelona-based Private Media Group, Europe’s biggest adult entertainment brand.

After three consecutive years of operating losses, Private's stock is in the cellar, trading at around $2 on Nasdaq, down from a high of near $40 a decade ago. Its auditing firm doubts Private's ability to survive. "Right now I'm simply trying to make the company cash flow positive," Private CEO Ilan Bunimovitz told Forbes last week.

Apparently he didn't make it positive enough: Bunimovitz was canned Monday by Private's board, without explanation.

Berth Milton's Plan To Bring Sexy Back To Profitability At Private Media

The shakeup Monday at Europe’s leading porn brand caught industry watchers by surprise. Private Media Group chairman Berth Milton pulled the rug out from his own chief executive, Ilan Bunimovitz, and took interim control of the company himself. Milton has run Private twice before, beginning in the 1990s after taking over from his father (and company founder) Berth Milton Sr.

Milton Sr., who sold used Volkswagens by day and photographed naked women at night, launched Private in Stockholm with a single magazine in 1965. The Private empire expanded into x-rated movies, landing a listing on Nasdaq in 1999 (the first porn company to do so). In 2002 Forbes Global named Private to its list of top 200 small companies around the world. Private went on to produce x-rated DVD hits like “Private Gladiator,” which sold 325,000 copies—huge for the porn business.

Milton spoke with Forbes about the future of Private and porn from his office in Barcelona this week.

Forbes: Private’s board fired chief executive Ilan Bunimovitz “for cause” this week. What does that mean?

Milton: I asked the board whether they agreed with my recommendation to fire him, and they did. I can’t say anything more than that. He’ll continue to be a board member until the next annual meeting.

What does this management change mean for the near-term future of Private?

Milton: In the beginning, the web gave adult content an incredible boost. Now it's turned into the worst thing that’s ever happened to the adult business. But there are also plenty of opportunities. There are ways of making money from non-paying traffic and that’s what Private is going to do. I can’t reveal anything more about our strategy, but we’re going to be more and more free, which will help us recruit paid subscribers.

Under your prior chief executive, the focus was on pushing content across all platforms, creating a kind of an x-rated cloud where you can access porn from anywhere. Will you continue with this strategy?

Milton: We have to stay focused and pick only the platforms we believe will work. It doesn’t make sense to be everywhere.

Does the iPad hold promise as a porn platform?

Milton: It’s a good tool, but I’m not sure it’s the best tool for consuming our content. My 16-year-old daughter used her iPad like crazy for two weeks, now she’s back to her laptop. I used mine for about two days.

What do you make of the bid by Penthouse owner Marc Bell to buy Playboy?

Milton: Marc Bell is a clever guy. He wants to take AdultFriendFinder public and it hasn’t worked out. I think this is his attempt to bring attention back to FriendFinder. Marc said that if Playboy accepted his bid, Hefner could stay in his mansion and keep running the magazine. But those are the two most obvious things that any buyer would have to change immediately. Hefner will never sell his stake in Playboy.

http://blogs.forbes.com/bizblog/2010...private-media/
http://blogs.forbes.com/bizblog/2010...pes-porn-king/

[pradaboy]

They are ancient, these times call for innovative measures, not another online sex shop.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by pradaboy

They are ancient, these times call for innovative measures, not another online sex shop.

Agree wholeheartedly.

[Barefootsies]

toe da top

[harvey]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Cliff Notes:
Disruptive digital technologies have struck a near-death blow to big players in the porn business. There's no better example than Barcelona-based Private Media Group, Europe?s biggest adult entertainment brand.

After three consecutive years of operating losses, Private's stock is in the cellar, trading at around $2 on Nasdaq, down from a high of near $40 a decade ago. Its auditing firm doubts Private's ability to survive. "Right now I'm simply trying to make the company cash flow positive," Private CEO Ilan Bunimovitz told Forbes last week.

Apparently he didn't make it positive enough: Bunimovitz was canned Monday by Private's board, without explanation.



http://blogs.forbes.com/bizblog/2010...private-media/
http://blogs.forbes.com/bizblog/2010...pes-porn-king/

It's a damn shame, they were meant to be the biggest porn business in the world but they were never been able to make the transition to online business, this goes way further than tubes. I was contacted by them to help with that and they required me to move to Barcelona, which I wasn't able to due to family reasons. I sent them a couple of suggestions on how we could work it out, but they were more interested in playing the "oh I'm so corporate I cannot change" game than making that transition. Plus, some insiders told me there were huge issues and ego wars between the magazine, DVD and online departments. Of course, they failed, and they failed huge, these news came as no surprise at all, was just a question of time. Again, a damn shame, I always was a huge fan of Private

[Agent 488]

the internet generation has never heard of them.

[Black Ops]

It is mind boggling how at one time you had to have talent to produce porn. Private always had quality videos. Now, any loser with a $200 video camera can make porn. This phenomenon was the beginning of the end for porn. When anyone could do it, everyone ruined it.

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by harvey

It's a damn shame, they were meant to be the biggest porn business in the world but they were never been able to make the transition to online business, this goes way further than tubes. I was contacted by them to help with that and they required me to move to Barcelona, which I wasn't able to due to family reasons. I sent them a couple of suggestions on how we could work it out, but they were more interested in playing the "oh I'm so corporate I cannot change" game than making that transition. Plus, some insiders told me there were huge issues and ego wars between the magazine, DVD and online departments. Of course, they failed, and they failed huge, these news came as no surprise at all, was just a question of time. Again, a damn shame, I always was a huge fan of Private

Wow, sorry to hear that. I've liked them for so so many years and I bet you really could have helped them.

[pornmasta]

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

Wow, sorry to hear that. I've liked them for so so many years and I bet you really could have helped them.

you can: buy shares

[Wizzo]

Times are tough, meanwhile in other public traded porn companies news: New Frontier Media is Among the Companies in the Broadcasting Industry Offering Investors the Best Cash Flow

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Black Ops

It is mind boggling how at one time you had to have talent to produce porn. Private always had quality videos. Now, any loser with a $200 video camera can make porn. This phenomenon was the beginning of the end for porn. When anyone could do it, everyone ruined it.

Whether the industry likes it or not, that is the wave of the future. Reinforced by cams.

Not only 'any one can do it' porn (i.e. clips4sale). But more tailored porn. I get requests from patrons and members all the time offering up to $500.00+ for a ten minute, 2 person, scene filmed to their script and specifications.

[Agent 488]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Whether the industry likes it or not, that is the wave of the future. Reinforced by cams.

Not only 'any one can do it' porn (i.e. clips4sale). But more tailored porn. I get requests from patrons and members all the time offering up to $500.00+ for a ten minute, 2 person, scene filmed to their script and specifications.

yes it's just not porn. the culture has changed.

some fat losers blabbing into cams from their trailer on youtube have more viewers than some tv shows.

you can't go wrong betting on the culture of the amateur and the mob.

[Black Ops]

Originally Posted by Agent 488

the internet generation has never heard of them.

Doesn't matter how long I am away from the board, I come back and you are in every thread. Where do you find the time?

[TisMe]

"Auditing firm doubts Private/Gamelink's ability to survive..."

That is a pretty common Auditors statement. If a company has debt coming due and has not signed a deal yet to renew or roll it over then this statement will be made.

Does not really indicate terminal problems.

[SteveHardeman]

I can?t reveal anything more about our strategy, but we?re going to be more and more free, which will help us recruit paid subscribers.

BRILLIANT!!!!

Originally Posted by Black Ops

It is mind boggling how at one time you had to have talent to produce porn. Private always had quality videos. Now, any loser with a $200 video camera can make porn. This phenomenon was the beginning of the end for porn. When anyone could do it, everyone ruined it.

Disagree here.... especially since I started out with a $200 Sony Handycam. :-)

Now people can get the porn they want rather than being limited to only what the big companies produce.

[FreeHugeMovies]

If anyone wants to promote AEBN just LMK!

[JFK]

Originally Posted by Agent 488

the internet generation has never heard of them.

some have

[marketsmart]

i knew it was the death of them when KB left....

or when KB started working for them...

either way...





.

[harvey]

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

Wow, sorry to hear that. I've liked them for so so many years and I bet you really could have helped them.

ha ha, well, thanx, really don't know, but I know at least I wouldn't let the company get to where it is right now

Originally Posted by SteveHardeman

BRILLIANT!!!!

Believe it or not, if they do things right, they'll be able to make a killing, as would any decent adult company using this model. Will they? I don't know, time will tell, as I said, they've many issues they have to solve FIRST in order to become competitive. Let's face it, it's not like we're talking about a guy who shot 10 tapes in a basement and has $2000 to invest, they probably have well over 100,000 exclusive videos and tens of millions of pictures, not to mention millions of dollars to invest. If this time they get their heads out of their asses, they have the tools to take the market by storm. Again, only if they solve their corporate issues first

On a side note, I wrote an article about this situation a couple weeks ago (yes, I know I'm late on updates, lol), you can see it here. Looks like Private wanted to show as the business model for that article!

[datatank]

Originally Posted by Agent 488

yes it's just not porn. the culture has changed.

some fat losers blabbing into cams from their trailer on youtube have more viewers than some tv shows.

you can't go wrong betting on the culture of the amateur and the mob.

LOL nice way to put it. You are correct

[NickB.]

too bad would hate to see that company fail

[DaddyHalbucks]

What are all of their affiliate sites?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Black Ops

It is mind boggling how at one time you had to have talent to produce porn. Private always had quality videos. Now, any loser with a $200 video camera can make porn. This phenomenon was the beginning of the end for porn. When anyone could do it, everyone ruined it.

Truth. Everyone here raves about the Internet. But it's decimated porn revenues.

Milton: In the beginning, the web gave adult content an incredible boost. Now it's turned into the worst thing that?s ever happened to the adult business. But there are also plenty of opportunities. There are ways of making money from non-paying traffic and that?s what Private is going to do. I can?t reveal anything more about our strategy, but we?re going to be more and more free, which will help us recruit paid subscribers.

Truth The problem is the opportunities are small compared to what it was. Yes I know the market has changed. People without a clue loading free content onto the net in a desperate rush to make a $30 sign up have killed porn.

*************************

Private used to produce some of the best porn scenes and feature lengths ever. Unless you're not into the niche. The last 5 or maybe more years their videos have sucked. They're just not horny anymore. I have a few, the fucking is fake, they dub in the girls moaning and the whole thing has become over produced. Often by people who know how to shoot a film, but don't know how to shoot porn.

Models used to walk off a Private film set and need an hour or two to get their breath back. Now it looks like they're stifling a yawn.

[Hank_Heartland]

More "Free"...That's all we need...I will be happy when peeps in this industry learn that you can't give enough away for "Free"...That model should have died yrs ago and adult should have been the 1st to give up on it

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Hank_Heartland

More "Free"...That's all we need...I will be happy when peeps in this industry learn that you can't give enough away for "Free"...That model should have died yrs ago and adult should have been the 1st to give up on it

Then how would you get traffic if you didn't load the Internet with more free than there is paid for content?

The situation is you can't close the door after the horse has bolted. It's too late.

Ask Aaron and he will tell you I know shit about the Internet and how it works. This I do know. If you only sell what you and others have given away for free for 10 years, your sales will turn to shit. And if you spend more on giving your product away than you do on that product your sales will also to shit. Double whammy.

Not bad for a guy who knows so little.

[Hank_Heartland]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Then how would you get traffic if you didn't load the Internet with more free than there is paid for content?

The situation is you can't close the door after the horse has bolted. It's too late.

Ask Aaron and he will tell you I know shit about the Internet and how it works. This I do know. If you only sell what you and others have given away for free for 10 years, your sales will turn to shit. And if you spend more on giving your product away than you do on that product your sales will also to shit. Double whammy.

Not bad for a guy who knows so little.

Paul did you read the 1st line of your last post or the whole post for that matter? How the hell can you make money doing that. If you do the above you deserve your sales going to shit...even mainstream has figured that out finally If you haven't branded, built value in that brand, protected that brand and innovated that brand over 10 yrs...you deserve shit sales. Learn to make your brand "the shits", then you have something people will pay for. BTW...be sure to: "GIVE THE SURFER WHAT THEY WANT,,,BUT NOT FOR FREE"

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Hank_Heartland

Paul did you read the 1st line of your last post or the whole post for that matter? How the hell can you make money doing that. If you do the above you deserve your sales going to shit...even mainstream has figured that out finally If you haven't branded, built value in that brand, protected that brand and innovated that brand over 10 yrs...you deserve shit sales. Learn to make your brand "the shits", then you have something people will pay for. BTW...be sure to: "GIVE THE SURFER WHAT THEY WANT,,,BUT NOT FOR FREE"

Yes I did. The first line of my post had an upside down smilie attached to it. It was me being sarcastic to those who preached for years the way to get sign ups is to give the product away.

It started when people who knew only how to drive traffic by giving content away started the process of seeing who could give away the most and the fastest. They often didn't know how to establish a brand or a product.

And it escalated and affiliates demanded more and more. More tools, more free content and more money.

To where we are today. Blaming free content for the fall in sales.

[Agent 488]

the drive is towards free in every segment of the internet economy. it isn't about giving away too many pics on a fhg you idiots. there are wider economic, cultural and technological factors at play here. if you think this is about porn if deserve to be adapted out of existence.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Agent 488

the drive is towards free in every segment of the internet economy. it isn't about giving away too many pics on a fhg you idiots. there are wider economic, cultural and technological factors at play here. if you think this is about porn if deserve to be adapted out of existence.

Seriously this has to be the stupidest statement I've heard in a long while.

Giving it away for free driving an economy.

And what the fuck do you sell if it's all given away?

Did you think about it as you wrote it?

[BestXXXPorn]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Seriously this has to be the stupidest statement I've heard in a long while.

Giving it away for free driving an economy.

And what the fuck do you sell if it's all given away?

Did you think about it as you wrote it?

Paul, there actually is merit to what he's saying. He is correct that current rich media content models are giving more and more away free... I mean, you can even watch full back episodes of shows online for free, many places. Including the networks' sites.

What they're selling is ONLY the newest content or latest episode, etc... or purchasing the collection (complete season)...

Longer trailers, more behind the scenes footage, special "webisodes", etc...

I wouldn't say his statement is the dumbest thing you've read in a long while. The free content stampede is out of the bag and it's going to stay that way no matter how many people try to reel back in the amount they publish for free. The ones that do will only fall farther out of the loop because they aren't offering as much. You have to embrace the change and reevaluate the model...

I mean, come on, how many sponsors are offering more than a glorified gallery? The same product they were offering 10 years ago, just more of it and newer content. Some sponsors have added live shows, definitely a great idea.. Some single model sites have started to tie in more contact between members and the model (also a great idea) but other than that there's not much happening...

There are plenty of areas to move a subscription based service into... for one bringing content to the TV... I've written multiple times on GFY how important implementing some sort of XBMC client or Boxee plugin is but nobody seems to listen... and I'm not talking about some half ass Boxee app leveraging someone else's plugin... I mean a real, custom, branded solution that extends the deliver-ability of a sponsor's greatest asset; the content.

The new wave is delivering media how the consumer wants to view it. Streaming to your TV is pretty fucking important. There is a giant time bomb in this industry that has the potential to deal a devastating blow across the board... I like to call it Netflix Adult...

If someone hasn't established a brand with reliable steaming / content delivery to your tv... Netflix Adult would be enough to satisfy many, Many porn goers...

Just sayin'

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by BestXXXPorn

Paul, there actually is merit to what he's saying. He is correct that current rich media content models are giving more and more away free... I mean, you can even watch full back episodes of shows online for free, many places. Including the networks' sites.

Yes but he was talking about the Internet as a whole. Giving it all away for free is no way to drive an economy. It's a way for a few people to make a bit of money and for many others to lose a lot of money.

I wouldn't say his statement is the dumbest thing you've read in a long while. The free content stampede is out of the bag and it's going to stay that way no matter how many people try to reel back in the amount they publish for free. The ones that do will only fall farther out of the loop because they aren't offering as much. You have to embrace the change and reevaluate the model...

Yes it's out of the bag and I acknowledged that in the "Horse has bolted" phrase.

I mean, come on, how many sponsors are offering more than a glorified gallery? The same product they were offering 10 years ago, just more of it and newer content. Some sponsors have added live shows, definitely a great idea.. Some single model sites have started to tie in more contact between members and the model (also a great idea) but other than that there's not much happening...

What about those giving 4-6 minute Tube clips, sometimes hosted and those giving full scenes away?

Yes doing live shows and online contact between models and surfers is the most sensible thing to do. The cry is "How do we sell when others give it away?" My answer is why are we only selling what others are giving away?" The answer could be there's not enough margin left to pay for these things.

Is it because of the cost of giving content away has left so little?

There are plenty of areas to move a subscription based service into... for one bringing content to the TV... I've written multiple times on GFY how important implementing some sort of XBMC client or Boxee plugin is but nobody seems to listen... and I'm not talking about some half ass Boxee app leveraging someone else's plugin... I mean a real, custom, branded solution that extends the deliver-ability of a sponsor's greatest asset; the content.

The new wave is delivering media how the consumer wants to view it. Streaming to your TV is pretty fucking important. There is a giant time bomb in this industry that has the potential to deal a devastating blow across the board... I like to call it Netflix Adult...

If someone hasn't established a brand with reliable steaming / content delivery to your tv... Netflix Adult would be enough to satisfy many, Many porn goers...

Yes we need to rethink what we're delivering and how we do it.

******************************

The Internet should of been the biggest boost to the porn business since the VHS machine. It would deliver product to the customer in his home or office. At costs so low we could build sites in niches that weren't really profitable before. And main stream sites. All done in private and a lot less chance of the customer being found out. Because of the way we do business it's decimated the business.

[harvey]

Paul, like it or not, there are many models where you can give the content for free and still make shitloads of money. As a matter of fact, with the current state of business, it's easier for me to think about "FREEMIUM" models than any paid business model. Is that good? No. Is that the way it should be? I don't think so. Is the way things are? YES. You can fight against it, but you already lost the battle. So just better give up and start thinking out of the box or just become a victim of current business affairs. Yes, adapt or die and yadda yadda, but it was never more true than today.

See, I've said it almost 2 years ago, how business would develop, how sites would lose traffic and customers, how the affiliate model would end, what would be the reasons why things would happen and what would be the logical steps to follow, ending with the debacle of tube sites. Until now, everything I said happened to the A, just waiting for the tube debacle. Most tube sites that stay in their current form will die in a 2 years span. You can call me a wizard, you can say I'm full of shit, but until now, reality shown I'm 100% true. And based on that statistic alone, please believe me when I say that the tube debacle won't be the solution either, if anything, it will make things even worse (there are many reasons why).

So, with this future context, what are you and everybody else going to do? The freemium model is something to consider and it offers a lot of possibilities, and most of them will make money. At least more than what current sites are doing. And quite frankly, until business shows a turn of events, I don't see many choices out of freemium models (I see a few, though, but even those would highly benefit with the addition of a parallel freemium model)

[BestXXXPorn]

Originally Posted by harvey

Paul, like it or not, there are many models where you can give the content for free and still make shitloads of money. As a matter of fact, with the current state of business, it's easier for me to think about "FREEMIUM" models than any paid business model. Is that good? No. Is that the way it should be? I don't think so. Is the way things are? YES. You can fight against it, but you already lost the battle. So just better give up and start thinking out of the box or just become a victim of current business affairs. Yes, adapt or die and yadda yadda, but it was never more true than today.

See, I've said it almost 2 years ago, how business would develop, how sites would lose traffic and customers, how the affiliate model would end, what would be the reasons why things would happen and what would be the logical steps to follow, ending with the debacle of tube sites. Until now, everything I said happened to the A, just waiting for the tube debacle. Most tube sites that stay in their current form will die in a 2 years span. You can call me a wizard, you can say I'm full of shit, but until now, reality shown I'm 100% true. And based on that statistic alone, please believe me when I say that the tube debacle won't be the solution either, if anything, it will make things even worse (there are many reasons why).

So, with this future context, what are you and everybody else going to do? The freemium model is something to consider and it offers a lot of possibilities, and most of them will make money. At least more than what current sites are doing. And quite frankly, until business shows a turn of events, I don't see many choices out of freemium models (I see a few, though, but even those would highly benefit with the addition of a parallel freemium model)

I agree with the exception of the affiliate model going away. That's just not possible and really, it's quite humorous to even think that would be the case. Affiliates are like retail stores; they offer different outlets and reach different customer bases you, yourself, can't reach without tremendous effort.

Not supporting the affiliate model would be like a company ONLY selling direct. Sure, you can do it but you aren't going to grow nearly as fast or reach nearly as many people. However, a small, profitable program or two may be your ideal situation if you don't aspire to achieve a higher level of success. You may be happier with less management and a higher margin. Don't come crying when the big dogs push you into the ground though ;)

If you place the adult industry into the retail analogy you'll see exactly where the industry currently sits. If sponsors are the manufacturers / brands and affiliates are the retail stores... Some brands will try and run their own retail store and carry their own stuff only... some will succeed and stay around for a while until the brand dies, many will fail. Some will also carry other brands in addition to their own; some will succeed, many will fail.

Out of the mess a few Walmarts and Targets will rise... currently Freeones probably fits in that category. These big "affiliate" players will make more money than any individual manufacturer because they push so much traffic. They may even launch their own brands to sell along side everything they carry for everyone else. It's the wise decision.

There will also be many niche stores which carry specifics that will do very well in their own regard and become a more recognized brand than any one of the individual brands they promote.

This is the way of things, this has been the way of business since the dawn of time. Nothing has changed, only the environment has changed. The online industry went through this during the .com boom and bust... The adult industry has been sheltered from being a true market because of the stigma attached to adult related stuff (keeps big businesses out). However this is changing RIGHT NOW and in addition we're getting the full brunt of the digital piracy.

Let's not kid ourselves... even if there weren't so many FHGs and free videos, all your content would still be available out there somewhere illegally...

[harvey]

Originally Posted by BestXXXPorn

I agree with the exception of the affiliate model going away. That's just not possible and really, it's quite humorous to even think that would be the case. Affiliates are like retail stores; they offer different outlets and reach different customer bases you, yourself, can't reach without tremendous effort.

Not supporting the affiliate model would be like a company ONLY selling direct. Sure, you can do it but you aren't going to grow nearly as fast or reach nearly as many people. However, a small, profitable program or two may be your ideal situation if you don't aspire to achieve a higher level of success. You may be happier with less management and a higher margin. Don't come crying when the big dogs push you into the ground though ;)

If you place the adult industry into the retail analogy you'll see exactly where the industry currently sits. If sponsors are the manufacturers / brands and affiliates are the retail stores... Some brands will try and run their own retail store and carry their own stuff only... some will succeed and stay around for a while until the brand dies, many will fail. Some will also carry other brands in addition to their own; some will succeed, many will fail.

Out of the mess a few Walmarts and Targets will rise... currently Freeones probably fits in that category. These big "affiliate" players will make more money than any individual manufacturer because they push so much traffic. They may even launch their own brands to sell along side everything they carry for everyone else. It's the wise decision.

There will also be many niche stores which carry specifics that will do very well in their own regard and become a more recognized brand than any one of the individual brands they promote.

This is the way of things, this has been the way of business since the dawn of time. Nothing has changed, only the environment has changed. The online industry went through this during the .com boom and bust... The adult industry has been sheltered from being a true market because of the stigma attached to adult related stuff (keeps big businesses out). However this is changing RIGHT NOW and in addition we're getting the full brunt of the digital piracy.

Let's not kid ourselves... even if there weren't so many FHGs and free videos, all your content would still be available out there somewhere illegally...

When I said the affiliate model dying I should have said "the affiliate model as we know it". Of course there will be huge affiliates many companies will love to keep, and same for small sites with no traffic of their own. But going on a strictly economic POV, how much money "vanished" in the air from affiliates the last months? Millions for sure. And that is just the beginning. ANd quite honestly, do you think those companies will leave the business? No, they'll change name, front faces whatever and come clean... with all the business affiliates built for them. Simple as that.

On the other hand, sites getting shitloads of traffic won't need the hurdle of affiliates, at most a few big playas and that's it. Besides, once affiliates realize all their hard work is in risk of vanish from one day to the other, they'll be warier and warier to get into another program. At least, that's how I see it

[Calico Jack]

Prvate in trouble...wow, cannot be good for the biz. When the old timers of porn are having troubles, it doesn't bode well.

[Agent 488]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Seriously this has to be the stupidest statement I've heard in a long while.

Giving it away for free driving an economy.

And what the fuck do you sell if it's all given away?

Did you think about it as you wrote it?

no i just repeat the same one wrongheaded and irrelevant solution to every problem no matter what their uniqueness.

[Agent 488]

yes the technological elimination of scarcity was created because someone put too many pics on a fgh. idiot.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by harvey

Paul, like it or not, there are many models where you can give the content for free and still make shitloads of money. As a matter of fact, with the current state of business, it's easier for me to think about "FREEMIUM" models than any paid business model. Is that good? No. Is that the way it should be? I don't think so. Is the way things are? YES. You can fight against it, but you already lost the battle. So just better give up and start thinking out of the box or just become a victim of current business affairs. Yes, adapt or die and yadda yadda, but it was never more true than today.

Yes a few will make money. But will the industry make more money? Great if you're one of the few. Sucks for all the rest.

See, I've said it almost 2 years ago, how business would develop, how sites would lose traffic and customers, how the affiliate model would end, what would be the reasons why things would happen and what would be the logical steps to follow, ending with the debacle of tube sites. Until now, everything I said happened to the A, just waiting for the tube debacle. Most tube sites that stay in their current form will die in a 2 years span. You can call me a wizard, you can say I'm full of shit, but until now, reality shown I'm 100% true. And based on that statistic alone, please believe me when I say that the tube debacle won't be the solution either, if anything, it will make things even worse (there are many reasons why).

The solution is simple. Stop relying on selling content others give away for free and sell content they can't.

Tube sites won't close until the industry wins back the customers it's lost to them.

So, with this future context, what are you and everybody else going to do? The freemium model is something to consider and it offers a lot of possibilities, and most of them will make money. At least more than what current sites are doing. And quite frankly, until business shows a turn of events, I don't see many choices out of freemium models (I see a few, though, but even those would highly benefit with the addition of a parallel freemium model)

Yes the free models will make money for a few. The majority will lose. The danger is, if the product your selling to make money starts being given away for free then again your screwed. What if paysites started to give away dating and cams? 5 years ago no one would of said this business would implode because people were giving away free porn. It has so don't say it could not happen.

The only model that has made substantial money by giving content away for free is the SE model. I also don't see any great future for the free model. Unless you have something substantial to sell. Selling ad space for people looking for information is different to selling ad space to people looking for free entertainment.

[Paul Markham]

There is one massive flaw in the "Free Driving an Economy" theory.

Free is paid for by sales.

Tubes are paid for by sales.
Affiliates giving away free content is driven by sales.
Google is driven by sales.
Economies are driven by sales.

No doubt a few will make some money by giving away things for free. Google is a great example of that. Industries will lose money if their products are given away for free. Economies will lose money if their products are given away for free.

To earn money with adverts on a free site of any description, you need the advertisers to make sales.

Just a little 101 in business.

[baddog]

Milton: In the beginning, the web gave adult content an incredible boost. Now it's turned into the worst thing that?s ever happened to the adult business. But there are also plenty of opportunities. There are ways of making money from non-paying traffic and that?s what Private is going to do. I can?t reveal anything more about our strategy, but we?re going to be more and more free, which will help us recruit paid subscribers.

Adapting.

Originally Posted by pornmasta

you can: buy shares

true

Originally Posted by Agent 488

yes it's just not porn. the culture has changed.

some fat losers blabbing into cams from their trailer on youtube have more viewers than some tv shows.

you can't go wrong betting on the culture of the amateur and the mob.

He is right.

[harvey]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

There is one massive flaw in the "Free Driving an Economy" theory.

Free is paid for by sales.

Tubes are paid for by sales.
Affiliates giving away free content is driven by sales.
Google is driven by sales.
Economies are driven by sales.

No doubt a few will make some money by giving away things for free. Google is a great example of that. Industries will lose money if their products are given away for free. Economies will lose money if their products are given away for free.

To earn money with adverts on a free site of any description, you need the advertisers to make sales.

Just a little 101 in business.

with all due respect, there's your (and many other people's) problem, you can't think out of advertisements or "the good ole business 101". If you allow yourself to think out of the "good ole whatever", maybe you'll see the clear paths. The "good ole whatever" died many years ago, so why get stuck on the memories? I never said "sell advertisements", that's a business in itself, but I'm in the business of selling ADULT ENTERTAINMENT. Hence, that's what the whole thing is about.

What has changed is the media, the delivery, the formats and the business models. The porn remains the same. You've seen the VHS market die, the magazines die, the CD-ROM die... and yet the final product (porn) is always for sale. All of the now defunct technologies had their own business models, so tell me, how is now different? The fact that you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it just means you can't see it.

Just as an example, let's get back to VHS. Back in the times, the whole movie industry was crying about the coming end. Yet, it didn't happen. VHS were cheaper, you'd pirate them, exchange with friends, get borrowed tapes, whatever. Cheap entertainment at its finest. Doom. Yet, the more expensive alternative is alive and kicking and making billions. Why? Because there are many, many, many, MANY things other than price.

Now, let's take our own industry: now we have those malign tube sites killing the sales. Of course there's a huge influence of tubes in the current adult business context, denying it would be ridiculous. What you can't see is that those malign tube sites aren't making as much money as they could. With CTR as low as 0.05% (believe it, I've tried a few) and horrid conversions, their only way to survive is by having shitloads of traffic (which they have), but sooner or later, that business model will eat itself. However, once a single tube owner realize where is the real money... well, be prepared. All the other copycats will follow and there will be no room for most adult webmasters, it will be just a big boys party and the only way to keep in business will be extreme specialization. But then, there's where the new wave of porn will probably come and the business will re-accommodate itself.

Either way, Paul, the real problem here is you're seeing the business as a hopeless one, and you're neglecting yourself the chances to see all the opportunities and open paths. And honestly, it's very sad to see one experienced webmaster as you having such a nihilist view

[harvey]

as per your previous post, I don't know why should I care about the "industry" ghost, as if there's some kind of god we should adore or something. IN any case, I'd care about some specific individuals, but the glorified term of "adult industry" means nothing to me. If I go down, will the "industry" come and save me? will it feed me? will it heal me? will it be with me in hard times? does it have a mail address to contact it, or a church for worshiping it? Come on Paul, we're grown ups, the "tubes that kill the almighty Adult Industry (blessed thy name)" are part of the industry too, let's get over it and continue working and making money, it's not like the world will stop because we decide to stop providing smut for one day or one week or one month

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by harvey

with all due respect, there's your (and many other people's) problem, you can't think out of advertisements or "the good ole business 101". If you allow yourself to think out of the "good ole whatever", maybe you'll see the clear paths. The "good ole whatever" died many years ago, so why get stuck on the memories? I never said "sell advertisements", that's a business in itself, but I'm in the business of selling ADULT ENTERTAINMENT. Hence, that's what the whole thing is about.

What has changed is the media, the delivery, the formats and the business models. The porn remains the same. You've seen the VHS market die, the magazines die, the CD-ROM die... and yet the final product (porn) is always for sale. All of the now defunct technologies had their own business models, so tell me, how is now different? The fact that you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it just means you can't see it.

Just as an example, let's get back to VHS. Back in the times, the whole movie industry was crying about the coming end. Yet, it didn't happen. VHS were cheaper, you'd pirate them, exchange with friends, get borrowed tapes, whatever. Cheap entertainment at its finest. Doom. Yet, the more expensive alternative is alive and kicking and making billions. Why? Because there are many, many, many, MANY things other than price.

Now, let's take our own industry: now we have those malign tube sites killing the sales. Of course there's a huge influence of tubes in the current adult business context, denying it would be ridiculous. What you can't see is that those malign tube sites aren't making as much money as they could. With CTR as low as 0.05% (believe it, I've tried a few) and horrid conversions, their only way to survive is by having shitloads of traffic (which they have), but sooner or later, that business model will eat itself. However, once a single tube owner realize where is the real money... well, be prepared. All the other copycats will follow and there will be no room for most adult webmasters, it will be just a big boys party and the only way to keep in business will be extreme specialization. But then, there's where the new wave of porn will probably come and the business will re-accommodate itself.

Either way, Paul, the real problem here is you're seeing the business as a hopeless one, and you're neglecting yourself the chances to see all the opportunities and open paths. And honestly, it's very sad to see one experienced webmaster as you having such a nihilist view

Whether you sell adverts, contacts, products or adult entertainment, you still have to sell something to pay for the free stuff given away. Adverts rely on sales.

Yes I agree a few will make good. The industry as a whole will decline though. Comparing the porn industry to the mainstream movie industry is not going to convince anyone. Your comparing an cow to a chicken because they both live on a farm.

Porn won't die, it just won't be as healthy.

[pornmasta]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

There is one massive flaw in the "Free Driving an Economy" theory.

Free is paid for by sales.

Tubes are paid for by sales.
Affiliates giving away free content is driven by sales.
Google is driven by sales.
Economies are driven by sales.

Think about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

Another point: people are not rational

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by pornmasta

Think about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

Another point: people are not rational

Deflation and free are two different things.

Yes maybe website memberships deflating would improve the situation. A lot of people ague it about music.

[ottopottomouse]

Originally Posted by Agent 488

the internet generation has never heard of them.

There may be something in that as I can remember the magazine but can't say i've noticed their stuff on the internet.

[pornmasta]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Deflation and free are two different things.

Yes maybe website memberships deflating would improve the situation. A lot of people ague it about music.

In the scheme that you described, more you have free stuff and less you can make money, so you have to be cheaper and cheaper and this is like a deflation. However in our case, people are not waiting that the membership gets more affordable. A membership for an adult website is nothing if you compare this price with the price of packet of cigarettes for a smoker.

As i wrote previously, people are not rational: so it doesn't matter how easily you can get free content on the web, you have to give them the desire to buy something.
One of the main problem for me is google: it's just to easy to find the free stuff with this search engine. Sometimes warez sites have best ranking than the legit website and this is a problem.

[harvey]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Whether you sell adverts, contacts, products or adult entertainment, you still have to sell something to pay for the free stuff given away. Adverts rely on sales.

Yes I agree a few will make good. The industry as a whole will decline though. Comparing the porn industry to the mainstream movie industry is not going to convince anyone. Your comparing an cow to a chicken because they both live on a farm.

Porn won't die, it just won't be as healthy.

OK, Paul, I see you're just arguing for the sake of doing it, saying the same I said in the big picture and getting lost in the details. Just to clarify, mainstream and porn may not be the same (there are many similarities though), but they're both BUSINESS MODELS. And with their own particularities, all business models always end in the same: making money. Period.

[DaddyHalbucks]

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

What are all of their affiliate sites?

Still asking..

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by harvey

OK, Paul, I see you're just arguing for the sake of doing it, saying the same I said in the big picture and getting lost in the details. Just to clarify, mainstream and porn may not be the same (there are many similarities though), but they're both BUSINESS MODELS. And with their own particularities, all business models always end in the same: making money. Period.

Say it ain't so.....