Obamacare supporters admit that the new system will raise costs and the deficit... :( - GoFuckYourself.com

sperbonzo · 08-25-2010, 07:36 AM

Dems retreat on health care cost pitch

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41271.html

"Key White House allies are dramatically shifting their attempts to defend health care legislation, abandoning claims that it will reduce costs and the deficit and instead stressing a promise to "improve it."

The messaging shift was circulated this afternoon on a conference call and PowerPoint presentation organized by FamiliesUSA ? one of the central groups in the push for the initial legislation. The call was led by a staffer for the Herndon Alliance, which includes leading labor groups and other health care allies. It was based on polling from three top Democratic pollsters, John Anzalone, Celinda Lake and Stan Greenberg

The Herndon Alliance, which presented the research, is a low-profile group that coordinated liberal messaging in favor of the public option in health care. Its "partners" include health care legislation's heavyweight supporters: AARP, AFL-CIO, SEIU, Health Care for America Now, MoveOn and La Raza, among many others."

The actual powerpoint is available here: http://www.politico.com/static/PPM153_pp.html

__________________________________________________ __
.

The powerpoint, created by an umbrella organization called the Herndon Alliance - which includes left-wing power brokers such as the SEIU, MoveOn, La Raza, and the Center for American Progress - specifically instructs those still trying to sell ObamaCare to the American public to avoid claiming "the law will reduce costs and deficits."

Of course those paying attention already knew that. Even the White House's own Medicare Actuary has acknowledged that ObamaCare will increase, not reduce, the amount the nation spends on health care over the law's first 10 years. Optimistic projections beyond the 10 year window "may be unrealistic," the Actuary stated (pdf).

Not only will the bill raise the amount the nation as a whole spends on health care, it will also raise individual Americans' insurance premiums, according to the Congressional Budget Office. Senate Democratic Whip Dick Durbin concurred with that assessment.

Neither will the law reduce the federal deficit. Once one strips away all of the accounting tricks and budgetary gimmicks, one finds, in the words of the former CBO director Douglas Holtz-Eakin, "The health care reform legislation would raise, not lower, federal deficits, by $562 billion."

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/lachlan...#ixzz0xd1y4FYU

Sly · 08-25-2010, 07:39 AM

And now for the obligatory: Would you rather have McCain?!?!

cherrylula · 08-25-2010, 07:49 AM

Logic tells me that anything new the government does will cost money. Is this a surprise?

sperbonzo · 08-25-2010, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

And now for the obligatory: Would you rather have McCain?!?!

I personally want to get rid of every single one of them and then impose strict term limits.

.

Quote:

Logic tells me that anything new the government does will cost money. Is this a surprise?

Of course.... the only problem was, that when they were passing this beast, they were all telling us that it would bring down costs to the consumer and reduce the deficit....

tony286 · 08-25-2010, 08:14 AM

Whats your point you didnt say a word during bushes unfunded drug benefit.
My health insurance goes up every year since I got it 10 yrs ago. So whats your point?

IllTestYourGirls · 08-25-2010, 08:18 AM

I blame Bush.

sperbonzo · 08-25-2010, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony299

Whats your point you didnt say a word during bushes unfunded drug benefit.
My health insurance goes up every year since I got it 10 yrs ago. So whats your point?

Actually I was consistently against Bush's out of control spending.... Hell, you and I had this conversation over drinks at a strip club party at one of the shows, remember?

...and my point is that this whole healthcare reform crap was sold as being the exact opposite of what they are now admitting....

.

cherrylula · 08-25-2010, 08:26 AM

I saw this chick on Facebook going off on Obamacare, then the next day was asking everyone where she can apply for free childcare.

Turns out she lives with her parents, is about 22 and has a baby. Guess who paid for her medical bills? That's right, the government! She didn't have health insurance, her parents didn't have her covered, not to mention who puts maternity coverage on their kids. The hypocrisy of people who despise Obama just stuns me.

But yeah politics are what they are. They start out saying "oh no don't worry about that," then it becomes "well maybe we have to deal with a little of that, but..." and so on, and so forth.

Nothing in this world is free, or easy.

tony286 · 08-25-2010, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherrylula

I saw this chick on Facebook going off on Obamacare, then the next day was asking everyone where she can apply for free childcare.

Turns out she lives with her parents, is about 22 and has a baby. Guess who paid for her medical bills? That's right, the government! She didn't have health insurance, her parents didn't have her covered, not to mention who puts maternity coverage on their kids. The hypocrisy of people who despise Obama just stuns me.

But yeah politics are what they are. They start out saying "oh no don't worry about that," then it becomes "well maybe we have to deal with a little of that, but..." and so on, and so forth.

Nothing in this world is free, or easy.

Read the book whatever happened to kansas it's about how the right got people to vote against their own best interests. That lady is an example.

tony286 · 08-25-2010, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

Actually I was consistently against Bush's out of control spending.... Hell, you and I had this conversation over drinks at a strip club party at one of the shows, remember?

...and my point is that this whole healthcare reform crap was sold as being the exact opposite of what they are now admitting....

.

No I dont remember that I remember having a good time with you and you talking about how you like to bust liberal protesters balls on the weekends.Not a bad word about bush comes to mind.

IllTestYourGirls · 08-25-2010, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony299

Whats your point you didnt say a word during bushes unfunded drug benefit.
My health insurance goes up every year since I got it 10 yrs ago. So whats your point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

I blame Bush.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony299

Read the book whatever happened to kansas it's about how the right got people to vote against their own best interests. That lady is an example.

The book is fundamentally flawed. It makes the HUGE assumption welfare HELPS people. It does not it enslaves people.

That is why we are seeing 5 GENERATIONS of families on welfare. So using your logic, people on welfare should vote to steal more from the rich so the next generation has more to get from the government?

sperbonzo · 08-25-2010, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony299

No I dont remember that I remember having a good time with you and you talking about how you like to bust liberal protesters balls on the weekends.Not a bad word about bush comes to mind.

LOL!!!

Dude, I not only talked to you about how I was against his spending, but also about how I was pissed about him not enforcing the borders... Vino was right there with us!

(and yes, it was a hell of a good time...

)

ShellyCrash · 08-25-2010, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherrylula

I saw this chick on Facebook going off on Obamacare, then the next day was asking everyone where she can apply for free childcare.

Turns out she lives with her parents, is about 22 and has a baby. Guess who paid for her medical bills? That's right, the government! She didn't have health insurance, her parents didn't have her covered, not to mention who puts maternity coverage on their kids. The hypocrisy of people who despise Obama just stuns me.

Kind of reminds me when Craig T Nelson was on Glenn Beck and said when he was broke and on food stamps the government never helped him.

ShellyCrash · 08-25-2010, 08:54 AM

Craig T. Nelson on Fiscal Responsibility - Anti Government Bailouts / Social Programs Rant

Actual Quote: "I've been on foodstamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No!"

Fucking Dumbass.

IllTestYourGirls · 08-25-2010, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShellyCrash

Kind of reminds me when Craig T Nelson was on Glenn Beck and said when he was broke and on food stamps the government never helped him.

funny shit right there.

_Richard_ · 08-25-2010, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

Dems retreat on health care cost pitch

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41271.html

"Key White House allies are dramatically shifting their attempts to defend health care legislation, abandoning claims that it will reduce costs and the deficit and instead stressing a promise to "improve it."

The messaging shift was circulated this afternoon on a conference call and PowerPoint presentation organized by FamiliesUSA ? one of the central groups in the push for the initial legislation. The call was led by a staffer for the Herndon Alliance, which includes leading labor groups and other health care allies. It was based on polling from three top Democratic pollsters, John Anzalone, Celinda Lake and Stan Greenberg

The Herndon Alliance, which presented the research, is a low-profile group that coordinated liberal messaging in favor of the public option in health care. Its "partners" include health care legislation's heavyweight supporters: AARP, AFL-CIO, SEIU, Health Care for America Now, MoveOn and La Raza, among many others."

The actual powerpoint is available here: http://www.politico.com/static/PPM153_pp.html

__________________________________________________ __
.

The powerpoint, created by an umbrella organization called the Herndon Alliance - which includes left-wing power brokers such as the SEIU, MoveOn, La Raza, and the Center for American Progress - specifically instructs those still trying to sell ObamaCare to the American public to avoid claiming "the law will reduce costs and deficits."

Of course those paying attention already knew that. Even the White House's own Medicare Actuary has acknowledged that ObamaCare will increase, not reduce, the amount the nation spends on health care over the law's first 10 years. Optimistic projections beyond the 10 year window "may be unrealistic," the Actuary stated (pdf).

Not only will the bill raise the amount the nation as a whole spends on health care, it will also raise individual Americans' insurance premiums, according to the Congressional Budget Office. Senate Democratic Whip Dick Durbin concurred with that assessment.

Neither will the law reduce the federal deficit. Once one strips away all of the accounting tricks and budgetary gimmicks, one finds, in the words of the former CBO director Douglas Holtz-Eakin, "The health care reform legislation would raise, not lower, federal deficits, by $562 billion."

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/lachlan...#ixzz0xd1y4FYU

for one second lets pretend this isn't a bunch of spin and propaganda

if after 10 years the federal government is spending less on health-care costs, how would that increase your deficit?

obviously dollar signs aren't working for you guys

lets make it the real death panels where it's adjusters, not doctors, deciding fates of patients.

_Richard_ · 08-25-2010, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShellyCrash

Craig T. Nelson on Fiscal Responsibility - Anti Government Bailouts / Social Programs Rant

Actual Quote: "I've been on foodstamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No!"

Fucking Dumbass.

GotGauge · 08-25-2010, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

The book is fundamentally flawed. It makes the HUGE assumption welfare HELPS people. It does not it enslaves people.

That is why we are seeing 5 GENERATIONS of families on welfare. So using your logic, people on welfare should vote to steal more from the rich so the next generation has more to get from the government?

Exactly!
The system is Flawed, it keeps most people on welfare!

marketsmart · 08-25-2010, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

Actually I was consistently against Bush's out of control spending.... Hell, you and I had this conversation over drinks at a strip club party at one of the shows, remember?

...and my point is that this whole healthcare reform crap was sold as being the exact opposite of what they are now admitting....

.

part of the problem is that the healthcare bill that was passed was watered down by about 50% of what it should have been...

of course costs are going to go up, but i don't think anyone can show how many costs will just be shifted from one segment of govt to another. meaning, how many people will seek preventive care now that they have insurance which will save a lot of money in future costs to the public system by keeping people healthier. also, most people without insurance typically go to the ER for care which is 5-10 times the cost of general or family practice medicine. only time will tell how this all pans out, but i am hoping that this healthcare system legislation leads to a better system overall and more improvements in the future.

people in this country want all the benefits, but dont want to pay for them. at some point people in this country started feeling some sense of entitlement. in my opinion, you are not entitled to shit, nor should you be. everyone needs to contribute and that contribution comes in many forms, taxes, participating in govt., volunteering, etc...

thats just my

and frankly i dont care what happens anymore. until people get fed up enough with the current system and clean house in govt, these arguments will still be raging on for the next 1000 years...

.

czarina · 08-25-2010, 09:27 AM

no matter what the point of discussion is, each side will always present it their way

ShellyCrash · 08-25-2010, 09:29 AM

All politics and social programs aside, our health care system is currently fucked.

In the US we no longer lead the world in quality health care but we are leading in cost. People shouldn't have to be put into bankruptcy over medical bills.

I'm paying about $400 a month for standard single coverage health insurance right now. Because of my pre-existing conditions I feel like someone's got a gun to my head. If I go more than 2 months uncovered I will get a 75% increase on my premium and will be forced to sign a rider not covering some pretty major health issues- none of which I have been diagnosed with but to protect the insurance company "just in case" some doctor got it wrong.

I'm so over this shit.

Dirty Dane · 08-25-2010, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marketsmart

people in this country want all the benefits, but dont want to pay for them. at some point people in this country started feeling some sense of entitlement. in my opinion, you are not entitled to shit, nor should you be. everyone needs to contribute and that contribution comes in many forms, taxes, participating in govt., volunteering, etc...

Eat healthier and taking the bike now and then instead of the car may also do wonderful things

tony286 · 08-25-2010, 10:37 AM

I figure with our record of meeting every ten yrs and my weight loss(23 lbs from 200 lbs lost). The next show I see you I will have to wear a sperbonzo's favorite lefty t shirt or you wont recognize me . lol

GatorB · 08-25-2010, 10:49 AM

FACT: Morons will believe anything from a "news" source that affirms their long held beliefs. Anything that counters that is considered to be "lies".

ShellyCrash · 08-25-2010, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony299

I figure with our record of meeting every ten yrs and my weight loss(23 lbs from 200 lbs lost). The next show I see you I will have to wear a sperbonzo's favorite lefty t shirt or you wont recognize me . lol

Wow! Congrats to that! You've lost a whole me

Before / after photos?

ManufacturingMan · 08-25-2010, 10:52 AM

That is because Obamacare supporters are fucking braid dead idiots that probably work for the state and live off the backs of real tax payers who actually work for a living.

GatorB · 08-25-2010, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManufacturingMan

That is because Obamacare supporters are fucking braid dead idiots that probably work for the state and live off the backs of real tax payers who actually work for a living.

Hey about LEARNING about it. I suppose all those parents who have kids with pre-existing conditions are asshole because they DARE want thier kids to have insurance? You fail at life. Kill yourself. Hopefully one day your kids get cancer and you'll LEARN not to be a dumbfuck.

ManufacturingMan · 08-25-2010, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

Hey about LEARNING about it. I suppose all those parents who have kids with pre-existing conditions are asshole because they DARE want thier kids to have insurance? You fail at life. Kill yourself. Hopefully one day your kids get cancer and you'll LEARN not to be a dumbfuck.

Try actually reading the bill, it has nothing to do in any way shape or form with what you just mentioned. It was actually written BY THE INSURANCE COMPANIES. We will ALL get less care, less coverage. It has nothing to do with Canada or The NHS in England. It is an entirely different BEAST all together. If you actually believe for one minute, that the fascist concept of forcing the American public, at basically gunpoint, to buy a private product from a private company is something that is good, perhaps you need to start working for the Department of Homeland Security and become a good little Stasi officer.

mountainmiester · 08-25-2010, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

The book is fundamentally flawed. It makes the HUGE assumption welfare HELPS people. It does not it enslaves people.

True, it creates dependencies which are not easy to move past. When Clinton passed his well needed Welfare reform bill, look at the thousands of American who where lost and had no idea what to do outside the welfare system. They had to institute training programs to assimilate these people back into working society.

Step forward to Greece and we see this again but this time, the government just cant afford to support these people. The most laughable of all this however was when Nancy Pelosky said that welfare and unemployment insurance "stimulates the economy". What idiot would buy into that I don't know but clearly she has a few in her district that do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManufacturingMan

It was actually written BY THE INSURANCE COMPANIES.

Can you point to any credible evidence to this? I know they sat in one meeting out of thousands but I have never seen anything that would indicate they wrote this bill or endorse it. And please don't site the AARP, they are NOT an insurance company, they just resell other companies insurance.

08-25-2010, 07:36 AM	#1
sperbonzo I'd rather be on my boat. Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 9,748	Obamacare supporters admit that the new system will raise costs and the deficit... :( Dems retreat on health care cost pitch http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41271.html "Key White House allies are dramatically shifting their attempts to defend health care legislation, abandoning claims that it will reduce costs and the deficit and instead stressing a promise to "improve it." The messaging shift was circulated this afternoon on a conference call and PowerPoint presentation organized by FamiliesUSA ? one of the central groups in the push for the initial legislation. The call was led by a staffer for the Herndon Alliance, which includes leading labor groups and other health care allies. It was based on polling from three top Democratic pollsters, John Anzalone, Celinda Lake and Stan Greenberg The Herndon Alliance, which presented the research, is a low-profile group that coordinated liberal messaging in favor of the public option in health care. Its "partners" include health care legislation's heavyweight supporters: AARP, AFL-CIO, SEIU, Health Care for America Now, MoveOn and La Raza, among many others." The actual powerpoint is available here: http://www.politico.com/static/PPM153_pp.html __________________________________________________ __ . The powerpoint, created by an umbrella organization called the Herndon Alliance - which includes left-wing power brokers such as the SEIU, MoveOn, La Raza, and the Center for American Progress - specifically instructs those still trying to sell ObamaCare to the American public to avoid claiming "the law will reduce costs and deficits." Of course those paying attention already knew that. Even the White House's own Medicare Actuary has acknowledged that ObamaCare will increase, not reduce, the amount the nation spends on health care over the law's first 10 years. Optimistic projections beyond the 10 year window "may be unrealistic," the Actuary stated (pdf). Not only will the bill raise the amount the nation as a whole spends on health care, it will also raise individual Americans' insurance premiums, according to the Congressional Budget Office. Senate Democratic Whip Dick Durbin concurred with that assessment. Neither will the law reduce the federal deficit. Once one strips away all of the accounting tricks and budgetary gimmicks, one finds, in the words of the former CBO director Douglas Holtz-Eakin, "The health care reform legislation would raise, not lower, federal deficits, by $562 billion." Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/lachlan...#ixzz0xd1y4FYU __________________ Michael Sperber / Acella Financial LLC/ Online Payment Processing [email protected] / http://Acellafinancial.com/ ICQ 177961090 / Tel +1 909 NET BILL / Skype msperber

08-25-2010, 07:39 AM	#2
Sly Let's do some business! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 31,323	And now for the obligatory: Would you rather have McCain?!?! __________________ Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted Windows VPS now available Great for TSS, Nifty Stats, remote work, virtual assistants, etc. Click here for more details.

08-25-2010, 08:18 AM	#6
IllTestYourGirls Ah My Balls Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Under the gold leaf ICQ 388-454-421 Posts: 14,311	I blame Bush. __________________

08-25-2010, 08:54 AM	#14
ShellyCrash Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Posts: 6,708	Craig T. Nelson on Fiscal Responsibility - Anti Government Bailouts / Social Programs Rant Actual Quote: "I've been on foodstamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No!" Fucking Dumbass. __________________ Start making money with the hottest hookup site! up to $55 PPS or up to 75% Revshare ICQ 196766477

08-25-2010, 09:29 AM	#21
ShellyCrash Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Posts: 6,708	All politics and social programs aside, our health care system is currently fucked. In the US we no longer lead the world in quality health care but we are leading in cost. People shouldn't have to be put into bankruptcy over medical bills. I'm paying about $400 a month for standard single coverage health insurance right now. Because of my pre-existing conditions I feel like someone's got a gun to my head. If I go more than 2 months uncovered I will get a 75% increase on my premium and will be forced to sign a rider not covering some pretty major health issues- none of which I have been diagnosed with but to protect the insurance company "just in case" some doctor got it wrong. I'm so over this shit. __________________ Start making money with the hottest hookup site! up to $55 PPS or up to 75% Revshare ICQ 196766477

08-25-2010, 07:49 AM	#3
cherrylula lol Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 15,969	Logic tells me that anything new the government does will cost money. Is this a surprise?

08-25-2010, 08:14 AM	#5
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	Whats your point you didnt say a word during bushes unfunded drug benefit. My health insurance goes up every year since I got it 10 yrs ago. So whats your point?

08-25-2010, 08:26 AM	#8
cherrylula lol Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 15,969	I saw this chick on Facebook going off on Obamacare, then the next day was asking everyone where she can apply for free childcare. Turns out she lives with her parents, is about 22 and has a baby. Guess who paid for her medical bills? That's right, the government! She didn't have health insurance, her parents didn't have her covered, not to mention who puts maternity coverage on their kids. The hypocrisy of people who despise Obama just stuns me. But yeah politics are what they are. They start out saying "oh no don't worry about that," then it becomes "well maybe we have to deal with a little of that, but..." and so on, and so forth. Nothing in this world is free, or easy.

08-25-2010, 09:27 AM	#20
czarina Webmaster Extraordinaire Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: A beautiful beach... Posts: 10,748	no matter what the point of discussion is, each side will always present it their way

08-25-2010, 10:37 AM	#23
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	I figure with our record of meeting every ten yrs and my weight loss(23 lbs from 200 lbs lost). The next show I see you I will have to wear a sperbonzo's favorite lefty t shirt or you wont recognize me . lol

08-25-2010, 10:49 AM	#24
GatorB The Demon & 12clicks Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: SallyRand is a FAGGOT Posts: 18,208	FACT: Morons will believe anything from a "news" source that affirms their long held beliefs. Anything that counters that is considered to be "lies".

08-25-2010, 10:52 AM	#26
ManufacturingMan Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Midwest Posts: 518	That is because Obamacare supporters are fucking braid dead idiots that probably work for the state and live off the backs of real tax payers who actually work for a living. __________________ All domains must sell, email me to make a deal. I'll entertain all reasonable offers. EMAIL: [email protected]