the revolution has started - Page 4 - GoFuckYourself.com

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott McD

You're the one crying about fee's !!!

Edit: Anyway, why would i waste YEARS at university to try and get a job which would probably pay much less than i make now? I am doing fine with what i'm doing now. Just bought a huge new house, new car, and can go holidays when i want. I bet i couldn't have this life had i went to your super duper fucking university.

I am glad you wrote this.

Its what many I find who feel inadiquate rely on, and that is goods and property to help boost there ego.

They feel the need to gain more and more as they belive more they have and more cash they have, the more it will help them feel more important.

But as you know you clearly feel less of a person.

You clearly are showing that you feel less than somone who went to university.

Its eating away at you. You resent those who went to university.

And the thing is more you own and more you earn, will make you not feel any better.

You will still resent those with a degree.

For all you are in the world is somone with things.

I can be rich or poor, but I will always have a degree. When I die they will say Adam has died, but in life he gained a degree.

And thats what makes you bitter. Deep down your no one.

Its like the UK version of 'The Apprentice'. That Lord sugar (or whatver the knome is called) almost each week tries to justyfy why he has not got a degree. For he has to keep telling us how rich he is. Now he is boosting his confidence by making everyone call him a Lord.

I see it all the time.

So feel free to keep bying 'stuff'. I am sure one day somone will be impressed by it.

But the thing is, you know deep down that you could be a billionair, but if a Dr comes into the room with you, people will always have more respect for him/her than you (and when I say dr I refer to somone with a phd, not neciserly in health).

But keep telling us how much you own. I am soooooo impresed.

If you keep saying it, one day it may help boost your confidence.

But try to avoid places where students hang out. Your confidence will drop again one you engage in a conversation with them, when you will be out of your depth.

Far better to comunicate with persons on your own level, such as your police relative.

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott McD

Seriously, you talk as much shit as Fatfoo. Give it a rest!

How amuzing.

A typicall reply from the lower educated class.

Rather than develop a constructive reply, destroying my statments with well thought out response, or even providing an evidence based quotation, you resort to the lowest of all levels, that being insults.

I have often in my studies of your class found this to be the common reponse.

I noted too that 'Gary' (arsewithclass) also drops down to the insult level.

Its such a shame.

But its clear that when you feel intimidated by your superior class that all your type cn to is insult. I am suprised that the other common practice by your class has not also been expreseed. Thus the threat to beat a person up.

I think you have proved why education is rather important in the UK. Rather having lots of twits like you, we could have an educated country, full of though and ideas.

But do not worry, I pity you. It must be hard living a life full of anger. I shall do my best to fight for people like yourself to get the help they need. No longer should you suffer at your limited comunication skills. One day you too could be almost equall to me.

BlackCrayon · 11-25-2010, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVTimes

I am glad you wrote this.

Its what many I find who feel inadiquate rely on, and that is goods and property to help boost there ego.

They feel the need to gain more and more as they belive more they have and more cash they have, the more it will help them feel more important.

But as you know you clearly feel less of a person.

You clearly are showing that you feel less than somone who went to university.

Its eating away at you. You resent those who went to university.

And the thing is more you own and more you earn, will make you not feel any better.

You will still resent those with a degree.

For all you are in the world is somone with things.

I can be rich or poor, but I will always have a degree. When I die they will say Adam has died, but in life he gained a degree.

And thats what makes you bitter. Deep down your no one.

Its like the UK version of 'The Apprentice'. That Lord sugar (or whatver the knome is called) almost each week tries to justyfy why he has not got a degree. For he has to keep telling us how rich he is. Now he is boosting his confidence by making everyone call him a Lord.

I see it all the time.

So feel free to keep bying 'stuff'. I am sure one day somone will be impressed by it.

But the thing is, you know deep down that you could be a billionair, but if a Dr comes into the room with you, people will always have more respect for him/her than you (and when I say dr I refer to somone with a phd, not neciserly in health).

But keep telling us how much you own. I am soooooo impresed.

If you keep saying it, one day it may help boost your confidence.

But try to avoid places where students hang out. Your confidence will drop again one you engage in a conversation with them, when you will be out of your depth.

Far better to comunicate with persons on your own level, such as your police relative.

you are clearly putting your own feelings into this. you are saying people put their ego into the things they own, well you are doing the same thing with a degree thinking its somehow different. its not.

stop acting like going to college is special, its not. everyone does it. it means nothing these days. people with phd's are a joke. they like to call themselves a doctor to boost their ego. how is that any different? become a medical doctor, then you'll have my respect. otherwise you're just another pseudo intellectual.

MetaMan · 11-25-2010, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVTimes

How amuzing.

A typicall reply from the lower educated class.

Rather than develop a constructive reply, destroying my statments with well thought out response, or even providing an evidence based quotation, you resort to the lowest of all levels, that being insults.

I have often in my studies of your class found this to be the common reponse.

I noted too that 'Gary' (arsewithclass) also drops down to the insult level.

Its such a shame.

But its clear that when you feel intimidated by your superior class that all your type cn to is insult. I am suprised that the other common practice by your class has not also been expreseed. Thus the threat to beat a person up.

I think you have proved why education is rather important in the UK. Rather having lots of twits like you, we could have an educated country, full of though and ideas.

But do not worry, I pity you. It must be hard living a life full of anger. I shall do my best to fight for people like yourself to get the help they need. No longer should you suffer at your limited comunication skills. One day you too could be almost equall to me.

you are indeed an idiot. i am sorry man. but you are.

the entire point is the rich and powerful know they are not a higher class. They just convince people under them to act into a class so once they get there they do not push on further.

the fact that you even talk about classes means you do not understand the true point of eduction in the first place.

Scott McD · 11-25-2010, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVTimes

You clearly are showing that you feel less than somone who went to university.

Its eating away at you. You resent those who went to university.

Yup, you are correct!

I hate making this money sitting on my ass in my own home while people are spending years at university to eventually get a job at McDonald's!

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

the thing is, you just *give* everyone this stuff, what motivation is there for anyone to do anything? people are lazy enough as it is.

how did the rich get rich? were just always rich? maybe some have the old money but the majority did it on their own. these were people who refused to accept their so called place in life and did something bigger than themselves. why so many poor people accept their poverty? i'll respect anyone who goes out there and tries, even if they fail but those wanting free handouts while being perfectly able bodied, yeah they can go to hell.

Did you not understand what the great president stated?

Employment, with a living wage - in other words everyone would be working.
Freedom from unfair competition and monopolies - large firms would not dominate. small firms would have a better chance. are you not fed up of star bucks being on every street in the world? do you not want to walk down a street and find a famiily run coffe shop, offering somthing different?

Housing - whats wrong with that? do you think if somone has a low wage job or no money they should live on the street? do you think the chap who cleans the street should not be entitled to live in a house? should only the rich live in comfort?

Medical care - so should only the rich get medical care. the poor can die?

Education - again so only the rich should have the best education?

Social security - do you not think people should be able to buy food when they retire?

We had a system in the UK where only the rich had anything. The poor died young. Disease spread.

The NHS stoped many illnesses. The country in fact became more productive from having the NHS as people were well enough to work.

Why is everything about money and getting rich?

Do you realy belive the current situation in the USA is good? Are you not ashamed that people are homless and houses are empty? What good is that?

Do you realy want people in the usa to have nothing? what do people do when they have nothing? they comit crime, they take drugs. Do you feel safer becase of that?

And if they go to prison who pays for that? the cost to purt somone in prison is much higher than helping them out.

But of couse you can always close your curtains and turn your tv on to block it all out. Its not your problem, what can you do about it? its somone elses problem, let 'them' deal with it. wash your hands of it all. so what if somone poor dies? what do they matter? its probably there fault they are poor. You can keep buying stuff after all.

PR_Glen · 11-25-2010, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVTimes

Do you not know what real comunism is?

USSR has never been comunist. It never followed the rules. In fact it forsed some rules. Comunism it is stated reults in several things. Such as happiness, and a another being that people no longer want to take drugs. In the USSR they made it the law you had to be seen to be happy. Its also why certain drugs are banned. Its to forece through the comunist laws.

Many countries claim to be comunist. I presume you belive china is comunist? Even though its now has more wealth than any other country. Its got lots of billionairs. It does not even have a free health care.

Many countries claim to be coimunist but are not.

Some are closer to it than others.

But no country is comunist.

You are using word communism the same way Romans used the ideals and virtues of the word Rome or how christians use the term christian. Your definition is too loose.

Saying the Russians or the Chinese didn't get it right is just an excuse. You could use that argument for anything. ie Napoleon didn't run his dictatorship the way it SHOULD have been, if he had he would have gotten it right and people would be at their happiest.

Keep reading, there are better philosophers and better thinkers who have peoples wants and needs down better than Marx ever did...

Hobbes and Locke are some good examples..

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

you are clearly putting your own feelings into this. you are saying people put their ego into the things they own, well you are doing the same thing with a degree thinking its somehow different. its not.

stop acting like going to college is special, its not. everyone does it. it means nothing these days. people with phd's are a joke. they like to call themselves a doctor to boost their ego. how is that any different? become a medical doctor, then you'll have my respect. otherwise you're just another pseudo intellectual.

No, I am saying people buy to boost there ego.

Some of us consider 'stuff' to be rather irrelavent.

One example is one of the saints (i forget which one) who had a wealthy family, and he himself was rich.

He gave it all way to live a simple life looking after animals and people.

Its very powerfll to be able to stop and say @i do not need this stuff' and no longer care.

Not top care about having to be one up on your naybours.

The point is ego is harmfull.

Its what your bread to belive. Purchase junk, it will give you a better life. Buy cheap food as its great. Forget the harm to the planet.

Keep buying. More you own the more you can boast.

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott McD

Yup, you are correct!

I hate making this money sitting on my ass in my own home while people are spending years at university to eventually get a job at McDonald's!

Again you show your need to 'have'.

For you money is all you have.

For some working at McDonald's may bring more hapeness and fulfilment than you have.

Your clearly not fulfilled as you keep having to say how wealthy you are.

Tell me, who are you if your money and stuff ius removed from you. Are you anybody?

Are you realy happy?

Do you feel your better than somone who works at McDonald's? I suspect you do.

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 02:01 PM

Each day more and more people are quitting vary well paid jobs to do simple low paid jobs as they have found wealth has not made them happy.

Scott McD · 11-25-2010, 02:02 PM

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz !!!!!!!!!

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

Napoleon didn't run his dictatorship the way it SHOULD have been..

i think he did a great job.

he was foolish to have ignored advise about going into russia.

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott McD

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz !!!!!!!!!

Oh how sad.

Again as I pointted out that when you fail to develop your argument you post insults.

Shame.

Oh well.

BlackCrayon · 11-25-2010, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVTimes

No, I am saying people buy to boost there ego.

Some of us consider 'stuff' to be rather irrelavent.

One example is one of the saints (i forget which one) who had a wealthy family, and he himself was rich.

He gave it all way to live a simple life looking after animals and people.

Its very powerfll to be able to stop and say @i do not need this stuff' and no longer care.

Not top care about having to be one up on your naybours.

The point is ego is harmfull.

Its what your bread to belive. Purchase junk, it will give you a better life. Buy cheap food as its great. Forget the harm to the planet.

Keep buying. More you own the more you can boast.

sure but you were basically saying you are better than people with money because you have a degree. that is ego. that is one upping. why can't you see that just because a degree might not be a phsyical item to own, it obviously is such a huge part of your self worth.

Scott McD · 11-25-2010, 02:07 PM

You aren't even worth an argument.

Arguing with you is like arguing with Fatfoo. Infact i'd rather argue with Fatfoo. At least some of the shit he spouts is slightly amusing.

So why you think anyone would even waste any more time on you is beyond me...

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetaMan

you are indeed an idiot. i am sorry man. but you are.

the entire point is the rich and powerful know they are not a higher class. They just convince people under them to act into a class so once they get there they do not push on further.

the fact that you even talk about classes means you do not understand the true point of eduction in the first place.

I refered to class as I was being witty.

I was using it to develop a short abstract joke stating that I was a class above him, while at the same time putting forward a argument of equality.

I am very sorry it went above you.

I will make a note not to post amuzing remarks again.

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott McD

You aren't even worth an argument.

Arguing with you is like arguing with Fatfoo. Infact i'd rather argue with Fatfoo. At least some of the shit he spouts is slightly amusing.

So why you think anyone would even waste any more time on you is beyond me...

In otherwords your not bright enough to put forward the most basic of arguments, but shall simply post as many insults as I can.

I understand.

Its not your fault.

The goverment has let you down with your below average education.

Ethersync · 11-25-2010, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVTimes

In cuba you can become a doctor. And its free. No fees.

Move there.

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

sure but you were basically saying you are better than people with money because you have a degree. that is ego. that is one upping. why can't you see that just because a degree might not be a phsyical item to own, it obviously is such a huge part of your self worth.

No

I am saying that having a degree gives you confidence, and an ability to comunicate thoughts and ideas as well as engage in a thoughtfull discushion.

While some (not all) try to fulfill there confidence with money and goods.

Many accademics I find (I am not claiming to be one) are not interested in wealth but rather in the persuite to learn more and gain more knolege.

Even in Star Treck they state that people no longer get paid but work to better themselves.

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync

Move there.

A rather bizare reply.

Surly its better to want to improve the country your in.

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 02:19 PM

By the way it was Saint Francis of Assisi who gave it all up. A great man indeed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_of_Assisi

ottopottomouse · 11-25-2010, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVTimes

Many accademics I find (I am not claiming to be one) are not interested in wealth but rather in the persuite to learn more and gain more knolege.

Because they are unemployable.

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

Because they are unemployable.

I am not sure enstien was rich. Or if he was, cared he was.

Phoenix · 11-25-2010, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVTimes

Then undere your argument kids should have to pay for school, the elderly should pay for the police to come out if they are robbed.... and so on.

So basicly your saying only those with money should have a degree.

Lets turn education into a product of value, rather than simply a means to educate yourself and improve your mind.

are you reading what you are putting down?

i agree with you, lets turn education into a product of value, and if it also helps to improve your mind, that is a good thing as well.

what i'm saying is everyone should pay their part, so if paying 40k into an education is too much of an investment for some to realize then they don't need to go to school.
i took loans for mine and paid it back with interest.

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

Because they are unemployable.

I do not think Trevor Baylis is rich. He invented the wind up radio for the poor.

rogueteens · 11-25-2010, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott McD

I hate making this money sitting on my ass in my own home while people are spending years at university to eventually get a job at McDonald's!

http://www.walletpop.co.uk/2010/11/2...ersity-degree/

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix

are you reading what you are putting down?

i agree with you, lets turn education into a product of value, and if it also helps to improve your mind, that is a good thing as well.

what i'm saying is everyone should pay their part, so if paying 40k into an education is too much of an investment for some to realize then they don't need to go to school.
i took loans for mine and paid it back with interest.

So what your saying is if your very very very clever, but your aim is not to earn but to reaserch/invent/improve the world, then you should not be able to go to uni as you cannot afford the fees.

But should your aim be to work in say a bank. Make as much as you can. Regardless the affect you have on the world and people, then becase you will get lots of cash you should go to uni?

Seems rather odd.

Surly if you get a well paid job with your degree your going to pay more tax and so pay towards your degree.

Purhaps you think its a good idea that the goverment invests billions into nuclear bombs that have no point and are out of date as a weapon.

Seems an odd system you belive in.

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 02:42 PM

Did Tim Berners-Lee develop the www to get rich? I am not sure he did.

mafia_man · 11-25-2010, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by czarina

you're saying that because you have never experienced communism first hand. No, it is not the way to go.
First off, porn is highly illegal in Cuba. Second, you can NOT own your own business. Third, you can NOT have internet.

Lucky Cuba isn't communist then.

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 02:51 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism:_A_Love_Story

Quote:

The film alternates between a fierce critique of the status quo, personal portraits of the suffering caused by the recent economic crisis, and comical social satire. The film begins with a series of security footages of armed bank robberies (one of the robbers was even on a crutch) accompanied by the song "Louie, Louie". Moore then uses an Encyclopædia Britannica archive video to compare modern-day America with the Roman Empire. The film then depicts home videos of families being evicted from their homes, as well as the "Condo Vultures," a Florida real estate agency whose business flourished with the increasing number of foreclosures.....

The film then cuts back to the past "golden days" of American capitalism following World War II, followed by a "bummer" speech by President Jimmy Carter warning Americans of the dangers of worshipping "self-indulgence and consumption". In the following Reagan years where the policies of Don Regan "turned the bull loose" for free enterprises, corporations gained more political power, unions were weakened, and socioeconomic gaps were widened. The film then cuts to the kids for cash scandal, Captain Sullenberger's congressional testimony regarding airline pilots' poor treatment, and the exposé of "dead peasant insurance" policies that have companies profiting from the deaths of their employees. Moore then interviews several Catholic priests, including Bishop Thomas Gumbleton (Archdiocese of Detroit), all of whom consider capitalism contrary to the teachings of Christianity. The film then presents a mockery of what would happen if Jesus was a capitalist who wanted to "maximize profits," "deregulate the banking industry," and wanted the sick to "pay out of pocket" for their "pre-existing condition," in contrast with several news pundits who proclaim the success of various capitalist enterprises as being a "blessing from God."

Moore discusses his own spiritual beliefs as a Catholic, and questions whether Jesus would belong to a hedge fund or sell short. His conclusion, which he elaborated on in more detail after the film's release, is that "you can't call yourself a capitalist and a Christian, because you cannot love your money and love your neighbor."[3]

The film then features a leaked internal Citigroup memo[4] happily declaring the United States a "plutonomy" (a society "where economic growth is powered by and largely consumed by the wealthy few"), with the top 1% of the population controlling more financial wealth than the bottom 95% combined. The same report also raises the concern of "societies demanding a more 'equitable' share of wealth". Moore then interviews Wall Street Journal columnist Stephen Moore (no relation), who believes "capitalism is a lot more important than democracy". The film then cuts to codetermination worker cooperatives like Wisconsin's Isthmus Engineering and California's Alvarado Street Bakery, which are owned and run democratically by their employees, as alternative models to the current capitalist system.

After referring to Dr. Jonas Salk, who selflessly refused to patent the polio vaccine for the public good (sarcastically asking, "Could you patent the sun?"), Moore wonders about how the brightest of America's young generation are attracted into finance instead of science. Moore then goes to Wall Street seeking technical explanation about derivatives and credit default swaps, only to be advised "don't make any more movies". Eventually Marcus Haupt, a former VP of Lehman Brothers, agrees to help but fails at clearly explaining these terms. Harvard professor Kenneth Rogoff similarly fails. Moore eventually concludes that the complex system and terminology are merely there to confuse and "get away with murder", and Wall Street is just "an insane casino."

Moore then explores the role of Alan Greenspan and the U.S. Treasury in leading up to the United States housing bubble that devastated the American middle class. Moore also interviews a former employee at Countrywide Financial responsible for their VIP program for "FOAs" and details how many members of Congress and political figures received favorable mortgage rates under the program. Moore then discusses with William Black, who analogizes the situation to the build-up of the collapse of a dam. The film then shows the series of events leading up to the passing of the 2008 bailout proposed by Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson (also the former CEO of Goldman Sachs). Moore then speaks with several Members of Congress, including Ohio congresswoman Marcy Kaptur, who agrees with Moore's comment that the passing of the bailout is a "financial coup d'état".

Moore interviews Elizabeth Warren, the head of the US Congressional Oversight Committee, the government agency serving as a watchdog for Congress' wrong-doing and investigating Congressional "oversights" (mistakes). He asks her, "Where's our money?", referring to the $700 billion bailout money which Congress gave to the big banks and Wall Street investment companies. There is a dramatic pause and Warren replies, "I don't know." Advised by Warren to contact Paulson's office for answer, Moore's call is promptly disconnected upon recognition of his identity. He then goes to Wall Street demanding to "get the money back for the American people", but is denied entry into every office building of the major banks.

The film then shows the events leading up to the 2008 U.S. election, where branding of capitalism and socialism occurs as part of the Republican scare campaign, which was ultimately unsuccessful. Barack Obama is swept into office, and Moore expresses hope that this election might turn things onto the right track. He documents an incident in Chicago shortly after the election where laid-off workers decided to take up residence inside their former workplace as a protest, demanding the severence pay they had been denied. After President Obama declared his support for the workers, many people showed up to aid their protest, which was ultimately successful. The film then contrasts the present economic reality in America with the policy of US president Franklin D. Roosevelt, who supported the similar Flint Sit-Down Strike in 1936 - 1937. Moore also includes long-lost archival footage of FDR in 1944 calling for a Second Bill of Rights that would guarantee all Americans "a useful job, a decent home, adequate health care, and a good education."[2] It is shown that after his death the following year, World War II was won by the Allies and many of the defeated nations were given the rights proposed by FDR, but Americans were not. The film then jumps ahead 60 years to show the devastation of Hurricane Katrina, which Moore suggests would have been less severe were it not for the economic system which made Wall Street rich while forcing residents of New Orleans to live in a poorly-maintained neighborhood.

The documentary features a number of positive portrayals, which include bailout watchdog Elizabeth Warren, Wayne County Sheriff Warren Evans, who put forth a moratorium on home evictions, and Ohio Representative Marcy Kaptur, who on the floor of the US Congress encouraged Americans to be "squatters" in their own homes, and refuse to vacate.[2]

The film closes with Moore placing police lines around numerous banks, and lastly, Wall Street itself. In his closing speech, Moore declares that capitalism is an evil which can only be eliminated and replaced with the goodness of democracy - rule by the people, not by money. He asks all those who support his beliefs to "speed it up", mimicking the infamous phrase said by Don Regan to Ronald Reagan during one of the latter's speeches.

Bryan G · 11-25-2010, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVTimes

I am glad you wrote this.

Its what many I find who feel inadiquate rely on, and that is goods and property to help boost there ego.

They feel the need to gain more and more as they belive more they have and more cash they have, the more it will help them feel more important.

But as you know you clearly feel less of a person.

You clearly are showing that you feel less than somone who went to university.

Its eating away at you. You resent those who went to university.

And the thing is more you own and more you earn, will make you not feel any better.

You will still resent those with a degree.

For all you are in the world is somone with things.

I can be rich or poor, but I will always have a degree. When I die they will say Adam has died, but in life he gained a degree.

And thats what makes you bitter. Deep down your no one.

Its like the UK version of 'The Apprentice'. That Lord sugar (or whatver the knome is called) almost each week tries to justyfy why he has not got a degree. For he has to keep telling us how rich he is. Now he is boosting his confidence by making everyone call him a Lord.

I see it all the time.

So feel free to keep bying 'stuff'. I am sure one day somone will be impressed by it.

But the thing is, you know deep down that you could be a billionair, but if a Dr comes into the room with you, people will always have more respect for him/her than you (and when I say dr I refer to somone with a phd, not neciserly in health).

But keep telling us how much you own. I am soooooo impresed.

If you keep saying it, one day it may help boost your confidence.

But try to avoid places where students hang out. Your confidence will drop again one you engage in a conversation with them, when you will be out of your depth.

Far better to comunicate with persons on your own level, such as your police relative.

For someone with a university education your grammer is terrible.

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 02:55 PM

What would you do with Dr. Jonas Salk?

He developed the polio vaccine for the public good (sarcastically asking, "Could you patent the sun?").

Would you have said he should not be educated as he was not interested in getting rich but making people well?

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan G

For someone with a university education your grammer is terrible.

I am dyslexic.

Its why I only did a business and marketing degree.

I would have loved to have done somthing far more challanging.

I always giggle at the futerama episode where they give the monkey a hat that makes him super clever. Then it gets smashed up and reduces his iq, and he says its ok as he can do a business degree.

Still its better than a media degree.

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 03:02 PM

For those in the UK, did you note on the news train fairs are going up 6% or somthing.

People are saying how expensive it is.

I cannot help to think that in the USSR train were very reliable, staitions were stunning, and the tickets were cheap.

I cannot help thinking that some things the USSR got right.

ottopottomouse · 11-25-2010, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVTimes

For those in the UK, did you note on the news train fairs are going up 6% or somthing.

People are saying how expensive it is.

I cannot help to think that in the USSR train were very reliable, staitions were stunning, and the tickets were cheap.

I cannot help thinking that some things the USSR got right.

Because the public in the USSR weren't paying the full cost indirectly at all were they?

Agent 488 · 11-25-2010, 03:14 PM

everyone got conned. they paid into the system for a safety net and a civilized infrastructure, and now that the states have went broke paying off the bankers who went broke speculating, the people are going to get all what they invested to rolled back with higher taxes yet. it's simple.

we are going to see a decade of social unrest and the shit you busy yourselves with in 2010 will seem like a silly dream.

since the states in the west have ramped up a large police and surveillance state over the last decade i can't help but feel they saw it coming.

moeloubani · 11-25-2010, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdultKing

In Cuba you can die from a simple preventable infection because the health care system is so overwrought from lack of supplies, decent infection control and funding. I have been to Cuba a few times. Back in the early 80's it was half decent, now it's teetering on becoming a third world country as the whole system is breaking down to a point that your travel insurance company charge a premium because they want to medivac you out for even small medical problems rather than take the risk in the Cuban system.

A source for this please? The only reason you could say ANYTHING about the Cuban medical system is because of their lack of technology. That is a result of the embargo put on them by the United States.

However, that said, I would MUCH rather be treated by a Cuban doctor who is a doctor to heal people rather than an American doctor, who is a doctor to make money, suck off some drug companies and do what he can to charge people the most for even the most simple procedure.

Cuban medical professionals are some of the highest quality medical personnel in the world.

Ethersync · 11-25-2010, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVTimes

A rather bizare reply.

Surly its better to want to improve the country your in.

You want to improve the UK by making it more like Cuba?

marlboroack · 11-25-2010, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u-Bob

There's no such thing as free education. Someone always has to pay the bill. People who demand free education are no different from people who demand free health care, free transportation, free cinema tickets, free clothing, free housing, free....

free....PORN

BlackCrayon · 11-25-2010, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVTimes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism:_A_Love_Story

oh, i get it. you recently saw this movie so now you are a revolutionary. i saw it too. what i got from it was that moore wanted to blame capitalism for the greedy actions of people under it. i blame the people. you can take away capitalism and people will still fight to have the 'most' of something. its a part of human nature.

u-Bob · 11-25-2010, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetaMan

the fact that you even talk about classes means you do not understand the true point of eduction in the first place.

quoted .

Coup · 11-25-2010, 04:29 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

Dig It.

dcalm · 11-25-2010, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Phoenix
some of these english chicks are hot

I second not only on that :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVTimes View Post

I cannot help to think that in the USSR train were very reliable, staitions were stunning, and the tickets were cheap.

I cannot help thinking that some things the USSR got right.
Because the public in the USSR weren't paying the full cost indirectly at all were they?

You see... that's the problem, you are thinking too much... toch well [NO] - because if you would really think or maybe.. wait - educate yourself (you can do that these days for free isnt it beautiful in internet?) then you would get the idea about how the things went in reality or rather lack of it.

if you still dont get it then russians were making people drunk, paying in % was normal... drinking at work was REQUIRED in most places. can you imagine that? yes, the rail was fucking amazing! i would get in those feeling safe... so you want to say that people where happy? they where finding their inner self in building and construction in terrible conditions? very reliable maybe yes, but labour sweated it out with -'C

as for education quit bragging about it, want something? get it... done right and as some wise people say when you want something done in the best way then do it yourself.

D.I.Y education forever ;p the international level is at crappy level and at school people are learned that Edison was a kind of hero, yet something there's nearly no words about Tesla (who got fucked by Edison Lightbub for 50 grands after improving his work). yeah , Marconi's radio was using 17 patents of Tesla. Remote control is also Tesla's idea [he presented it on underwater boat - the first one? i dont remember :D]

I know that i got far, but im just so much pissed off about the education system (remind yourself: did your teacher told you to stop pointing with finger and then refer to any speed reading course's first technique -> reading with pointer : P check also R.a.f huge involvement on this matter). Current educational system is set to produce people qualified in very small niche.

Before writing anything about paid or free education stop and take 15 minutes learning break... public education and they way its organized is simply waste of fucking time :D just my

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

Because the public in the USSR weren't paying the full cost indirectly at all were they?

Partly

But we have one of if not the most expensive railways in the world.

Mainly due to the bizare way its run.

People presume that say Zirgin run there section, but the goverment says what trains and how many can be run.

On top of this the firms pay a huge bill/licence to the goverment. I think its a billion pounds or somthing silly. So to cover the costs they have to charge you a silly amount per ticket. The bulk simply goes to the goverment rather than profit.

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

oh, i get it. you recently saw this movie so now you are a revolutionary. i saw it too. what i got from it was that moore wanted to blame capitalism for the greedy actions of people under it. i blame the people. you can take away capitalism and people will still fight to have the 'most' of something. its a part of human nature.

I do not think that was the conclusion from the film.

I think it was saying that the system could work, but certain businesses make more cash by exploiting the poor.

For instance why throw people out of there homes when you could simply let them pay rent. The banks own the property.

Also its now been accepted that it was wrong to allow banks (both UK and USA) to have no rules. This allowed banks to do crazy things.

It was interestinbg to see that some firms in the usa had become co-ops. And they (workers) owned the business. I have seen this too in the UK where peoplke have done managment buyouts and now own the firm. One mining firm did this. Also one of the major shop chains operates like this. Its becoming a popular method and apears to increase profits.

Though I am not sure this mode would work for all businesses. But I cannot help to think that rather than shutting a business and selling its assets off, it may be better to sell to the workforce.

i do think america has lost its way in many ways. i think its alowed a minority of firms take over. its lost the small family businesses which were great. we see it both in the uk and usa, small sucsessfull firms being purchased by the giants.

it simply ends up with a situation of make as much profit as thats all thats important. indeed many have posted in this thread thats all they think is important.

there was a time when a person had pride in there business. it was not about profit at any cost.

for instance my nan made loose covers. now she could have easily rented a cheap building. hired out lots of machists and made lots of covers to order.

but she prefered to have quality. she would do all the work. for her the profit was irelavent. it was pride. she had the pride to make somthing of very high quality that would last for years.

she never advertised as all the work was word of mouth. often she had to turn job offers away.

But with large firms, they simply do not care. In the uk we have a tv show called watchdog, and each week we hear about how big firms just offer no customer service. just take the cash, offer the basics, and count the cash.

In the UK we have this drawrf called Lord Sugar. He runs the UK version of the apprentace. All he is interested in is profit.

And this is where we have come to.

Do you want to live in a world thats just about profit. And forget the impact on people or the planet, or the quality of service or products.

Or do you want to live in a world where a company has pride in what it does and what it delivers.

Can you imagine if you purchased a pc and found a fault. And the managing director found out and was devistated. And he did everything he could to sort it out. How good would you feel.

But i bet if you get a fault on your pc, all you will get is grief to get it sorted out.

Making a profit is not wrong. But having profit as the ONLY end result surly is wrong.

Personaly I run my sites for pleaser. I find it fun. I do not care if it makes me rich or not. My end result is as long as I am happy and as long as what I do does not harm anyone or any animal or harm the planet then I feel good.

I used to do sales. And my manager never understood that I did it for fun. They used to say 'well Adam we are in to make as much as we can as we all want cash'. It used to take them back when I said, I do it as I enjoy selling. I enjoy the challange. I was also one of the top sales reps too.

One of my first jobs was working in a local cinima at the weekends while I was at uni. People mocked me. Yet I loved every day of being there (its closed or I would still do it now, even if I was not being paid) as each day somthing new would happen. I even turned down a trainee managers potition as I wanted to be on the floor with the customers having fun, not sat in the office.

Perhaps I think this way as when I was about 6 I was on holiday in blackpool (its a naff holiday resort in england).

Anyway one day in blackpool on a wet day we were in a shopping mall (as you call them in the usa). Stood in the middle was a monk singing. I have never seen anyone before or indeed afterwords as happy and as content as him (i am not catholic or even religoise by the way) But i looked around and watched people running in and out of shops buying stuff, they looked so stressed. Yet he was stood so content. all he had was a gutar and his robe.

I have seen and met many people over the years. Some extreamly rich. but in truth none i consider as happy or as content as him. and none did i have as much respect for as him.

For me such as Lord sugar and others are a joke to me.

I have told this story a few times.

I have known people quit there job on the basis of it.

I am not trying to insult people. Just help them. Its a scary thing to sit and consider that your not happy. and how ever rich you get, you will not be happy.

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 07:21 PM

I think people often worry too much about the 'rules'.

To me comunism is about the results rather than the practice.

Cal Marx states the result should be hapiness.

The argument that if you have the system right people are basicly happy.

The resulkt being people would not want to take any form of drug (inc alcohol) or indeed be interested in porn.

The argument that he puts is that people only use these are they are not happy.

And indeed we see the abuse of these when people are not happy.

Thus as long as the system preduces hapopiness then its basicly comunism.

Thus we see often forced laws in so called comusist states where drugs, porn, prostetution, gamberling are made illigall. Thus you can claim your system works. Even in non comunist countries we see the same thing.

Comunism is not realy about goverment controll.

Some see it as non democracy, though no country is truly democratic. For instance if you belive your in a democratic country, did you get to vote on them putting a building up in your area. Of couse not. And it would be nuts if we voted on everything. But thats what full democracy is.

We basicly have a system of voting for who you like. Often regardless if they will do the greatest good. Often you vote on gut feelings rather than evidence based. For instance if the evidence was that making drugs legal would in fact reduce drugs and crime, people would still vote for the chap who says ban drugs.

China is moving away from the populist vote to having one party in power but taking the thoughts of the people into mind. Though this may seem alien, and wrong its what many in china seem to want.

USSR had problems with comunication. The cremlin never found anything out. In fact the USSR jokew was that to find out what was going on in the USSR the cremlin had to contact the FBI and CIA as they knew more what was going on. It turned out this was not just a joke but in fact fact.

Though when the nuclear plant blow up, it changed USSR poloticts vastly as it turned out most of the nuclear plants had known problems but no one wanted to rock the boat, so everyone sent in reports of clean health.

But capatalim does work in parts. It does help creayte better products and servises. It cleates better ways to produce them. Quality increases. Cars today are a million times better than the rubish made in the 70's that were often not well put together and had faults. Many british and american cars in the 70's were junk when you conpaire cars of today.

But also onbe must recognise that some state run things work better than being in the private sector. For instance, the police, army, and lets be honest NASA. In fact it was a year or so ago that NASA told the Russain space system off for selling holidays to rich people. I found that most amuzing.

Often the problem is that the state fails to understand how to run things well.

WhileI love the NHS, it is badly run. It probably costs 2 or 3 times more to run than it should.

Often in the UK we do not do things well.

For instance we build cheap flats. We contracted builders who cut costs. Now only after a few years they are being pulled down or re-built. They are also ugly.

In contrast USSR did understand the importance of pride and built a lot of attractive bbuildings for its people. The train stations are stunning. Yet in the UK our train stationms are gray concrete junk. Very ugly.

In the UK though millions is raised in road fund licence our roads are bad. Realy bad. So bad that BMW have found that its the only country that its alloy wheels break, due to the bupy roads.

The question is what should the state run and what should be private. And how many regulations should be in place for both public and private.

I do belive that the USA should have state health care. I think as long as its run effectivly everyone would benafit.

But somone said that if the state provides hand ouyts then people will not want to look after themselves.

And its a point.

In the UK Labour goverment bribed certain voters by making them dependent on the state from birth to death. It encouraged girls top keep having baboies as they woulkd get more benafits and a bigger house. This made them a Labour votor as they knew other partes would or could take there benafits away.

And that is a problem. Its easy for some goverments to buy votors with benafits.

But the problem has become those on benafits find very soon there health drops. They then become the main user of the NHS.

Thus while its important to help people who cannot help themselves its also important its not used to trap people into a system.

State health is no more socalism as it is capatalism. No more than the police or army are. It benafits business as workers are less lickly to be sick. It benafits the people of the USA as it lowers your costs. Costs are spread out.

Hospitals can still be private, but rather than giving you every test going toi bump up the bill, they would have to justyfy giving you every test. It would be more likly doctors would make desisions for health reasons rather than to bump up profits.

In fact I am suprised hospitals in the USA can legally get away with bumping up these pointless tests.

America and in deed the UK needs far more small businesses. They not only enrch the lives of people by often offering a more quality product or service, as well as more custom to peoples needs, somthing large firms could not achive easily. They also help stabalise the job martket. Small firms are less likly to sack people to save money. They are seen are people rather than numbers on a spread sheet.

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcalm

Before writing anything about paid or free education stop and take 15 minutes learning break... public education and they way its organized is simply waste of fucking time :D just my

I presume you refer to school education (ie up to say 16 year old) rather than university.

There is a problem with schools.

I shalll from this point refer only to UK schools as I could not say about USA schools as I do not know how theyy operate, only from what I see in the films.

The private schools (as in pa\id) often I would say a more rounded education this includes experiences. In deed I hol;d my hands up and say if I had children and the cash I would opt to send them to private school.

Bang gores my comunist belifes I hear you say.

And yes I am happy to admit to that.

This is mainly due to the current UK state schools.

Many I do feel are not very good.

Its a comlex issue is running a state school as do you teach children all sorts of lessens and give them the belife they could all become doctors when in fact most will simply work in the local factory.

Or do you teach them that they can become doctors. But if you do, do you keep all children together or seperate the more accademic ones so those who are britest become higher educated. But then you have a sistuation where those who are not so clever end up with a much lower education as well as less belife in themselves.

While with paid (private) education, you can be rather thick, but often the prestge of going to such a school can mean you get a position in a certain firm or goverment job.

We also have a problem in the UK of religoise schools, that are also state run. These schools can select children, on the basis of there religion, but at the same time can simply regect the thicker or problem children. Thus these kids end up in the pooter state schools with often no prospects.

So do you keep religouse schools or not. Many parents love them, and pont to the fact there results are better than non religouse schools. Yet when they can select the cream is it no wonder results are better.

Often in UK schools such as Frenchg is compulsary. Yet I suspect less than 0.00001% of those children who learn French will ever work in France, so is there any point to it.

And then polotics serves a great deal.

Different polotical parties and local authoraties all have different ideas and idealogy. You end up with a real mess.

Also to say we are in the UK our exams system is differnt in each EU country, so while we now have freedom to work in any EU country, the exams we take do not match this.

Irand is regarded to have very hard exams.

Another problem is we now have different systems in different parts of the UK, such as (as i have pointed out) university is free in scotland but not in england.

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 07:54 PM

I think we should agree as a starting point that all countries systems have both good and bad points.

Many now miss east germany, USSR and so on.

They enjoyed the benafits. The free health care, not worring about getting a job.

Some (not everyone) have said they were much happier under such systems. Life was simp[ler. They had more pleaser time.

During the cold war, we in the UK purchased many USSR made cars. They were semi popular. Though to be fair I fail to understand why as they were often ugly, expencive and not reliable. Though when the collaps of USSR came we sold the cars back to russan people as there was a demand (nostalgic) for the USSR cars.

Dvae · 11-25-2010, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVTimes

I think people often worry too much about the 'rules'.

To me comunism is about the results rather than the practice.

Cal Marx states the result should be hapiness.

The argument that if you have the system right people are basicly happy.

Where do you get your warm fuzzies about communism?

The following definition does not include one thing that I find interesting. It may all sound good but its been a miserable failure throughout history.

communism (ˈkɒmjʊˌnɪzəm)

? n
1. advocacy of a classless society in which private ownership has been abolished and the means of production and subsistence belong to the community
2. any social, economic, or political movement or doctrine aimed at achieving such a society
3. ( usually capital ) Marxism Marxism-Leninism See also socialism a political movement based upon the writings of Marx that considers history in terms of class conflict and revolutionary struggle, resulting eventually in the victory of the proletariat and the establishment of a socialist order based on public ownership of the means of production
4. ( usually capital ) a social order or system of government established by a ruling Communist Party, esp in the former Soviet Union
5. chiefly ( US ) ( often capital ) any leftist political activity or thought, esp when considered to be subversive
6. communal living; communalism

DVTimes · 11-25-2010, 08:03 PM

PS.

Before I go to bed (its 3am UK time) just to remind you in the USA, that the USSR kicked your bottoms when it came to the space race. They were first in space, first space station in space (in fact they got two built before you started on yours), and many other space records. At least you can claim you got to the moon (though we all know it was in fact filmed in a film studio).

To be fair to USSR the Lada Niva was a great 4x4. Some say its the best 4x4 ever made.

11-25-2010, 02:01 PM	#160
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11-25-2010, 02:02 PM	#161
Scott McD Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 67,795	Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz !!!!!!!!! __________________ I Buy My High Quality Traffic Here, You Should Too!

11-25-2010, 02:07 PM	#165
Scott McD Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 67,795	You aren't even worth an argument. Arguing with you is like arguing with Fatfoo. Infact i'd rather argue with Fatfoo. At least some of the shit he spouts is slightly amusing. So why you think anyone would even waste any more time on you is beyond me... __________________ I Buy My High Quality Traffic Here, You Should Too!

11-25-2010, 02:19 PM	#171
DVTimes xxx Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: UK Posts: 31,544	By the way it was Saint Francis of Assisi who gave it all up. A great man indeed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_of_Assisi __________________ The Affiliate Program

11-25-2010, 02:42 PM	#178
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11-25-2010, 02:55 PM	#182
DVTimes xxx Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: UK Posts: 31,544	What would you do with Dr. Jonas Salk? He developed the polio vaccine for the public good (sarcastically asking, "Could you patent the sun?"). Would you have said he should not be educated as he was not interested in getting rich but making people well? __________________ The Affiliate Program

11-25-2010, 03:02 PM	#184
DVTimes xxx Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: UK Posts: 31,544	For those in the UK, did you note on the news train fairs are going up 6% or somthing. People are saying how expensive it is. I cannot help to think that in the USSR train were very reliable, staitions were stunning, and the tickets were cheap. I cannot help thinking that some things the USSR got right. __________________ The Affiliate Program

11-25-2010, 03:14 PM	#186
Agent 488 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 22,511	everyone got conned. they paid into the system for a safety net and a civilized infrastructure, and now that the states have went broke paying off the bankers who went broke speculating, the people are going to get all what they invested to rolled back with higher taxes yet. it's simple. we are going to see a decade of social unrest and the shit you busy yourselves with in 2010 will seem like a silly dream. since the states in the west have ramped up a large police and surveillance state over the last decade i can't help but feel they saw it coming.

11-25-2010, 04:29 PM	#192
Coup 🚨 PBBC International 🚨 Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: /👁\ Posts: 9,931	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism Dig It.

11-25-2010, 07:21 PM	#196
DVTimes xxx Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: UK Posts: 31,544	I think people often worry too much about the 'rules'. To me comunism is about the results rather than the practice. Cal Marx states the result should be hapiness. The argument that if you have the system right people are basicly happy. The resulkt being people would not want to take any form of drug (inc alcohol) or indeed be interested in porn. The argument that he puts is that people only use these are they are not happy. And indeed we see the abuse of these when people are not happy. Thus as long as the system preduces hapopiness then its basicly comunism. Thus we see often forced laws in so called comusist states where drugs, porn, prostetution, gamberling are made illigall. Thus you can claim your system works. Even in non comunist countries we see the same thing. Comunism is not realy about goverment controll. Some see it as non democracy, though no country is truly democratic. For instance if you belive your in a democratic country, did you get to vote on them putting a building up in your area. Of couse not. And it would be nuts if we voted on everything. But thats what full democracy is. We basicly have a system of voting for who you like. Often regardless if they will do the greatest good. Often you vote on gut feelings rather than evidence based. For instance if the evidence was that making drugs legal would in fact reduce drugs and crime, people would still vote for the chap who says ban drugs. China is moving away from the populist vote to having one party in power but taking the thoughts of the people into mind. Though this may seem alien, and wrong its what many in china seem to want. USSR had problems with comunication. The cremlin never found anything out. In fact the USSR jokew was that to find out what was going on in the USSR the cremlin had to contact the FBI and CIA as they knew more what was going on. It turned out this was not just a joke but in fact fact. Though when the nuclear plant blow up, it changed USSR poloticts vastly as it turned out most of the nuclear plants had known problems but no one wanted to rock the boat, so everyone sent in reports of clean health. But capatalim does work in parts. It does help creayte better products and servises. It cleates better ways to produce them. Quality increases. Cars today are a million times better than the rubish made in the 70's that were often not well put together and had faults. Many british and american cars in the 70's were junk when you conpaire cars of today. But also onbe must recognise that some state run things work better than being in the private sector. For instance, the police, army, and lets be honest NASA. In fact it was a year or so ago that NASA told the Russain space system off for selling holidays to rich people. I found that most amuzing. Often the problem is that the state fails to understand how to run things well. WhileI love the NHS, it is badly run. It probably costs 2 or 3 times more to run than it should. Often in the UK we do not do things well. For instance we build cheap flats. We contracted builders who cut costs. Now only after a few years they are being pulled down or re-built. They are also ugly. In contrast USSR did understand the importance of pride and built a lot of attractive bbuildings for its people. The train stations are stunning. Yet in the UK our train stationms are gray concrete junk. Very ugly. In the UK though millions is raised in road fund licence our roads are bad. Realy bad. So bad that BMW have found that its the only country that its alloy wheels break, due to the bupy roads. The question is what should the state run and what should be private. And how many regulations should be in place for both public and private. I do belive that the USA should have state health care. I think as long as its run effectivly everyone would benafit. But somone said that if the state provides hand ouyts then people will not want to look after themselves. And its a point. In the UK Labour goverment bribed certain voters by making them dependent on the state from birth to death. It encouraged girls top keep having baboies as they woulkd get more benafits and a bigger house. This made them a Labour votor as they knew other partes would or could take there benafits away. And that is a problem. Its easy for some goverments to buy votors with benafits. But the problem has become those on benafits find very soon there health drops. They then become the main user of the NHS. Thus while its important to help people who cannot help themselves its also important its not used to trap people into a system. State health is no more socalism as it is capatalism. No more than the police or army are. It benafits business as workers are less lickly to be sick. It benafits the people of the USA as it lowers your costs. Costs are spread out. Hospitals can still be private, but rather than giving you every test going toi bump up the bill, they would have to justyfy giving you every test. It would be more likly doctors would make desisions for health reasons rather than to bump up profits. In fact I am suprised hospitals in the USA can legally get away with bumping up these pointless tests. America and in deed the UK needs far more small businesses. They not only enrch the lives of people by often offering a more quality product or service, as well as more custom to peoples needs, somthing large firms could not achive easily. They also help stabalise the job martket. Small firms are less likly to sack people to save money. They are seen are people rather than numbers on a spread sheet. __________________ The Affiliate Program

11-25-2010, 07:54 PM	#198
DVTimes xxx Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: UK Posts: 31,544	I think we should agree as a starting point that all countries systems have both good and bad points. Many now miss east germany, USSR and so on. They enjoyed the benafits. The free health care, not worring about getting a job. Some (not everyone) have said they were much happier under such systems. Life was simp[ler. They had more pleaser time. During the cold war, we in the UK purchased many USSR made cars. They were semi popular. Though to be fair I fail to understand why as they were often ugly, expencive and not reliable. Though when the collaps of USSR came we sold the cars back to russan people as there was a demand (nostalgic) for the USSR cars. __________________ The Affiliate Program

11-25-2010, 08:03 PM	#200
DVTimes xxx Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: UK Posts: 31,544	PS. Before I go to bed (its 3am UK time) just to remind you in the USA, that the USSR kicked your bottoms when it came to the space race. They were first in space, first space station in space (in fact they got two built before you started on yours), and many other space records. At least you can claim you got to the moon (though we all know it was in fact filmed in a film studio). To be fair to USSR the Lada Niva was a great 4x4. Some say its the best 4x4 ever made. __________________ The Affiliate Program