I am asking for proof and no one seems to be able to give it to me. I've been asking for two weeks and no one on this board can give me a link that proves anything. Instead I get a link to a power point presentation that any eight year can make that doesn't even say they were doing anything illegal, or a link to a news article that has an eighty page summary that still doesn't provide any proof of any wrong doing.

We all know they are doing it, but everyone has jumped on the Snowden bandwagon which has yet to provide any proof.

The United States government has taken part in some pretty horrible things. I'm not saying the US Government can do no wrong.

I am saying there is a herd mentality and everyone believes it when in fact there is no proof. I asked you for proof and you gave me something that doesn't even say they did anything illegal.

I find it rather amusing that people will call other people sheep because they don't believe in something, yet they believe in something without any proof at all.

proof= documents (power point presentations) ;-) +

even BIGGER proof a) = NSA and gov reactions to this....If they would be SO SURE about their rights (like: nobody was spying on citizens and world) I'm pretty sure that they'd SCREAM it loud...yet they are far from screaming...also look how some NSA guys look like today...their faces look rather sad, anxious and very angry , not like persons who are sure about what they say and are ready to PROVE it
proof b) hunting for Snowden... trying to get him on Bolivia's nation representant...
hunting for him like crazy...->> he knows something and his info is true and from Source...

and as now you may think about something.... :
proof c) they say that Snowden is Russian spy...yet = no proof...no loud arguments = they dont know what they talk about.....
thats all....
even when you may think how f.. up situation may seems now as Snowden gets job in Russia (like they said yesterday), so "for sure" he is/ was on russian payroll... I think that guy's intentions were true, but it is irony that he is now in country that doesnt respect that much freedom, like Russia is...
and iam not saying that other govs dont spy...they do...but since in NSA work best minds of the world and they use good tech, they have results....
It is other sad thing that probably EU guys are very keen to do the same with their nations...they just need some know-how from NSA ;-)

when it broke that the german bloke was being tapped, you were one of the ones expressing amazement that people thought it wasn't going on, even without this 'proof'. Do you honestly believe, given your prior stance that basically, 'of course' things like that go on, that usa, and for that matter uk, citizens aren't having any of their private communications looked at without 'legal' backing, because there is no 'proof'?

I find *that* extremely hard to believe. If it *can* be done, it *is* being done :2 cents:

censoring like that just forces the other person to swear and is a cop-out on you 'not swearing'. Just sayin' :winkwink:

*I hope my joke translates well enough, if it doesn't, here's this line I added :thumbsup

ps yes I stole that from Louis CK :upsidedow

sorry for that then, i'm not native english speaker and it wasnt my intention... in my language we say like that :)

snowden wasn't a russian spy.

he IS still alive :)

nah I was 100% joking - it just reminds me of Louis CK's line about that whenever I see it is all :thumbsup

you sure about that?

Yes, them looking sad is proof.

There is no doubt that the NSA or CIA is trying to listen in on every conversation between government employees in other countries. There is no doubt that they are listening in on the leaders of other countries. This is what the NSA and CIA does. It's easy to accept this as fact. We don't need proof - This is why they exist.

The NSA or the CIA violating the US Constitution is another thing and bit more difficult to believe.

Gotta say. IMO, you take on a certain simple understanding when you begin to use public use things like the internet and email that it is never private anymore. If you think about it, what does it matter? So someone knows that I am emailing some else naked pictures?? Who cares? Who is really using these things to do illegal activity???? I will tell you who, STUPID criminals...ha ha ha ha ha

hahah i told you so...
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...llance-snowden

it is getting more interesting with every week :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

new era just begun..... ;-)

when it snows when it snows when it snows.