The right wingers are in a bit of frenzy in the U.S. since their boy got caught lying. Check some of the post counts for GFY right wingers, you'll see a huge spike since Bush got caught lying.

Anyone turned on talk radio lately? Same story. They're all yelling, insulting "liberals" more than normal, trying to re-define lying, and talking real fast.

It's interesting to watch the pack running in every direction with their hero busted. :)

001

The Bush administration won't attack Korea. There is no oil or money to be made there.

You're talking about one super psycho Kim Jong Il, who think he's a god. The country is SUPER TIGHTLY controlled, especially media and information outlets. So if North Korea is attack, the whole population response, not just regular soldiers.

Iraq is nothing compare to the N. Korean military. The U.S. can definitely win, but by doing so, they'll loose HEAVY(can make Vietnam look silly) military casulties, not to mention the political backlash. Attacking N. Korea is like cornering a starving lion. They are a desparate, starving nation whose sole military purpose is to LIVE or die FOR WAR.

The U.S. do not want to attack a suicidal nation, that has nothing to loose. However, there's alot to loose for the U.S.. Diplomacy is the only way to stop their nuclear potential. In fact, it worked before, until that "axis of evil" sparked them to rebuild again. They a skittish nation.

really good points - but the fact is he is threating to nuke the US - I don't think a ground war would be the option - I see us taking out the plants - I am not sure if we will go to war over this or not only time will tell. I know for a fact there is a build up happening as we speak just wait till the news picks it up.

SEOUL (Reuters) - North Korea said Monday that victory would be certain for the communist state in any nuclear war with the United States thanks to Pyongyang's "army-first" political system.

"Victory in a nuclear conflict will be ours and the red flag of army-first politics will flutter ever more vigorously," state radio said, reported by South Korea's Yonhap news agency.

"Our victory is certain and the future ever more radiant," it said, touting the dominance of the army in the world's most heavily militarized society.

The million-strong Korean People's Army is the world's fifth-largest, with nearly one in 20 North Koreans in uniform and spending on defense consuming as much as a quarter of the impoverished state's annual budget.

War warnings and claims that the United States is poised to attack North Korea have been almost daily fare in Pyongyang official media, which have ratcheted up the rhetoric since a nuclear crisis flared last year.

The standoff over North Korea's suspected nuclear program has been simmering since October, when Washington said Pyongyang had admitted to pursuing a program to enrich uranium in violation of major international treaty commitments.

Since then, North Korea has expelled U.N. nuclear inspectors and withdrawn from the treaty which aims to curb the spread of nuclear weapons and said it was ready to restart a mothballed reactor capable of producing plutonium for bombs.

Pyongyang has insisted that it only intends to produce electricity for its decrepit economy and that the nuclear row is a bilateral dispute with Washington that can only be solved through two-way talks leading to a non-aggression treaty.

But a vote on February 12 by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the U.N. nuclear watchdog, referring the nuclear issue to the Security Council was seen as a rebuff to North Korea's insistence on a bilateral solution.

The Security Council has the power to impose economic sanctions -- a step North Korea has said would amount to a declaration of war.

But IAEA head Mohamed ElBaradei has said there was no intention to push for sanctions immediately. North Korea's allies Russia and China and neighbors including South Korea have said it was too early to pursue sanctions.

Last week, Central Intelligence Agency Director George Tenet reiterated U.S. intelligence estimates that North Korea has already extracted enough plutonium for one to nuclear bombs.

Tenet said North Korea could recover enough plutonium for several additional weapons if it were to reprocess spent fuel from the reactor that had been frozen in 1994 under an agreement with the United States which Pyongyang abrogated in October.

The United States keeps 37,000 troops in South Korea under a 50-year-old security alliance formed to deter a repeat of the North Korean invasion of the south that sparked the 1950-53 Korean War.

What is the lie that you are referring to?

Hmm...just as I thought.

It's not CONSIDERED an act of war, it was interpreted as such. War was not declared when OPEC announced an oil embargo in 1973-1974 on the US. There are embargos of various sorts all the time.

The embargo against Japan was a reaction to the ongoing war between Japan and China. China at the time was considered one of the US' closest allies.

We didn't start the fire. It was always burning ...

Yeah, and how many times has that happened in all of history? 1991 was an exception, not a rule. Not to mention Bush I was one of the best presidents in US history at diplomacy in both his interest and his ability.

I found this from a quick search... it outlines North Korea's war capabilities... who knows if it's true, but if it's all factual, North Korea sounds formidable

http://informationclearinghouse.lite...rticle3099.htm

I see the economical and political issues as being a huge factor.

1. 2004 is an election year. I don't see him risking re-election in another war. Though the US military is vastly superior to NK's, there is a high probability this would be very costly for SK in the opening days of the war. That could very well turn public opinion against Bush and risk him re-election.

Another war before the election is unlikely. Bush will start losing votes because people are most concerned about the economy.

The deficit is already projected to be $475 billion in 2004 and $304 billion in 2005. Needless to say, add a war into either of those figures and you will see a white house in trouble.

I didn't say "use all of our smart bombs". I said we used a lot. I know the difference between a Tomahawk and a JDAM. Thanks.

Again, I say such a war is unlikely (opposite of likely, less than 50%), not that it's not not going to happen.

North Korea's military is similar to Saddam's 1991 military. A large military but outdated in tactics and equipment. T-62 and T-71s. Lots of MiGs which have never fought well against American planes. Soviet military doctrine which served the Arab countries really well against the Israelis. ;-) ;-)

Very lopsided. NK's biggest threat in a war is to South Koreamn civilian population.

I hope you are right and the article was wrong

theking:

Taking one step backwards. Why is it ALWAYS the US that is under some threat that there is a need to "take down" anyone??
(Of course... I forgot the world is jealous of the US! :1orglaugh )

Take a look inwards for just one second and see how ridiculous you look to the rest of the world.

Quit the stupid US euphemisms and lets assume you mean it is your opinion that the US will nuke N Korea? I doubt any other way will suceed.

By the way, why can the US construct WMD and it whines at the thought of others possessing such weapons?? That sounds like still more BS and hypocracy to which we have become accustomed.

Shit.. if I was some leader of a country which an idiot US "President" did a rhetorical "threat" oratory on, I sure as hell would be inclined to consider WMD as a deterent!! :1orglaugh

Agreed. Another six weeks and it's back to school for all the kiddies here.



bye bye kiddies.

It's a function of pecking order, not the country itself. Because the US has the most influence on international affairs. Every nation that has ever been in the position the US is in acts similarly (usually more extreme actually). The British Empire, the Japanese Empire in the Pacific, the Spanish, the French, Germany, Prussia. Many more examples.

The behavior of such nations makes perfect sense to them and little sense to anyone else.

If nations act in what they believe is their best interest, and I argue that they almost always do, weaker nations will band together into pacts, leagues, organizations and any number of other alliances both formal and informal. Such nations call for increases in power of international bodies and law as a counterweight to the prevailing powers.

This has always been so. It is a common story in history.

What has changed is the function of imperialism. Up until World War II, the dominant world powers were traditionally empires.
Find an old map of Africa up until World War II. It was carved up by the imperial powers. There were hardly any African nations at all that were free from the world's imperial powers - if there were any at all.

Is the US the cause of the decrease in Empire or simply following a new international paradigm as to what dominant powers should be? We don't know the answer to that. It may very well be that the US is the cause f the decrease in Empire. After all, Empire was the name of the game until after World War II when the US came out as one of the world's two dominant powers. The USSR continued to annex countries and the US did not.

Some people like to say "The US isn't the world's cops". But the US is in many ways. That's just the way it is. So was Great Britian for many years. Powerful nations have always acted this way in accordance with their ability and the information and technology of the time.

You can say "What right does the US have to do such and such ..." but it doesn't mean anything. When has there ever been a time when might is not the sole determining factor in such things?

The more globally influential a country one lives in, the more likely one will be interested in the concept of international law. Those who live in countries that are weaker militarily and economically tend to see the world in terms of international bodies and laws, alliances, pacts, and leagues. Those who live in powerful countries tend to not.

See above. If you continue to think that the world should be "fair" in some sense where the rules are the same for all nations you are going to be in for a long distressed life. It has never been that way and there is no indication it ever will be.

Tell me one time in the history of Civilization where all countries played by the same rules. There is none.

International law only exists as much as powerful countries are willing to enforce it. Look at the UN. The UN exists because powerful countries formed it. It favors powerful countries. France, the UK, Russia, China, and the US have veto power in the UN Security Council. That is power and the result of power.

The UN can easily be used to push countries around but not those five. It is impossible for a US Security Council Resolution to pass against one of the five nations. It just gets vetoed.

Why do you think the US should play by the same rules as Argentina? That's absurd.

To see the history of the future, you need only look to the history of the past.

War is inevitable and sadly, inherent in our species.

I never said anything needed to be done now... I've allways thought that North Korea was a bigger problem than Iraq... Sadam wasn't going anywhere.. he wasn't going to invade anybody else, he learned his lesson...I'm sure he would have been a good little dictator and sat in his cornor for atleast another 10 years.. in that time we could have backed a freedom movment in Iraq to oust Sadam... unlike what we just did, that will probally lead to more terror attacks.

Colin...you tax Webby's little brain.

nahh, the netherlands will protect world order

I think they've proven that we are all very similar because at one point in human history almost the whole lot of us died, not because we came from two women.

Some believe that democracy is the inevitable conclusion of an "educated society".

I am not aware of N. Korea as I would like to be.

Does N. Korea allow the live television broadcasts of other nations - like CNN.com?

Does N. Korea block internet transmissions like other nations are?

If they block world opinion they need to go - if they do not - then it's going to be very hard for the US to do anything about - what they started many moons ago - "nuclear deterance".

From my understanding - North Korea is a "dictatorship" ... and the usual "control" method is to block the opinion of the rest of the world - and it's own population.

If this is the case - we need to do something.

If this is not the case - it's going to be much more difficult - but we still need to do something because there is already to many nukes it the world.

Dad@

Actually, they do a great job in brain washing their people. It isn?t like other oppressive nations where their people actually get a clue. They really buy into everything their government says. They believe that on the day Kim Jong-Il was born, there were rainbows in the sky and other supernatural events. They believe all kinds of government propaganda, and of course presently they believe we are responsible for them starving to death?oh and that we?re minutes away from invading them to further our Yankee imperialist goals. No, if we have to go to war with North Korea, we?re screwed. It won?t be a push over like Iraq was. They?ll fight like they are fighting for their god, Kim Jong-Il ?The Great Leader.?

Man that is scarey ...
It's like another Iraq - two decades ago.
I hate this world I am passing on to my son ...
It's so screwed up.

Wow.... I actually agree!! That fuck should be impeached for it too!!

As for Korea, Bush or no Bush they would be wiped off the map. Even Clinton said, that they wouldn't know their country as it now exists. If they make a mistake, there's going to be some angry motherfuckers in this world as they replay the devistation. :2 cents:

Very well said!! :thumbsup

China loves their wild step child shaking up the region, and they are just sitting back and watching how we react. I hope Bush gets a grip on our nation soon, because we don't want 2 million chineese foot soldiers hitting the east coast!

theking:

Stupid ass!!

Once again, you assume a lot King of Denial!! :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

No regime in the world today is more evil than the one in North Korea. It operates a system of slave labor camps that can be compared only to the worst nightmares of Stalin's gulag and the Nazis' places of confinement and death. To make matters worse, North Korea has weapons of mass destruction, with which the dictator Kim Jong Il intimidates his neighbors like a schoolyard bully.

In the face of all this, the international community has treated Kim's government far too generously. More important, it has failed to recognize the vital link between the issues of human rights and nuclear weapons.

The record shows that Kim Jong Il cannot be trusted or bargained with. His nuclear weapons program exists for one purpose: to threaten the international community and thereby blackmail it into providing aid. It is time for South Korea, Japan, the United States and other countries to stop dancing to North Korea's nuclear tunes and pursue a strategy that will bring about real change. That strategy must link future aid to fundamental reform: not just a cessation of the nuclear weapons program but abolition of the concentration camps and of the spectacularly failed collective farms, which are the cause of the widespread starvation.

A new international strategy must be based on what is happening inside North Korea. The country is a giant concentration camp, the world's last totalitarian regime. Without warning, appeal or reason, any North Korean can be sent to a slave labor camp for such "crimes" as reading a foreign newspaper, listening to a foreign broadcast, complaining about the food situation or refusing an arbitrary request from an official. Some 200,000 North Koreans are held in these camps, in horrifying conditions of torture, harsh labor, hunger and summary execution. In the past three decades, several hundred thousand North Koreans have died in the camps.

The existence of the concentration camps is an open secret. The United States and South Korean governments have satellite photographs documenting them in detail. They should show these photographs to the world, present specific evidence of the atrocities and demand that Kim Jong Il close down the camps in a verifiable way -- by opening them to international inspection.

Economically, North Korea is bankrupt, with a classic Stalinist system in need of sweeping reform. During the 1990s, famine killed hundreds of thousands of people.

But instead of learning a lesson from a crisis that drove the country to the brink of collapse, North Korea wasted five years rebuilding its old system with international aid, including extensive, unconditional giveaways by Kim Dae Jung's government in South Korea.

Today international food aid keeps the North Korean army fed and loyal, and the country barely afloat. But the people continue to suffer from hunger and oppression. And Pyongyang resorts to nuclear blackmail to extract even more international aid, while retreating from a very tentative agenda of structural reform and opening-up that the regime saw as a threat to its survival.

Defeating this nuclear blackmail requires a strategy that reaches beyond the nuclear program itself to the fundamental nature of the totalitarian regime. The regime is adept at playing the nationalist card with its nuclear program, propagandizing to its people that the country must have nuclear weapons in order not to be made "America's slaves."

What the North Korean government fears most is that its people will awake from their isolation and ignorance. That is why it imprisons those who listen to foreign broadcasts. Yet more and more are doing so. Despite the regime's cruel suppression, people's desire to know about the world continues to grow.

Kim Jong Il's regime is in an advanced state of decay. Bribery and corruption are rampant. So is organized crime. The regime is so desperately short of resources it cannot even pay and equip its security apparatus properly. More and more North Koreans (in the tens of thousands) have escaped across the border to China. A few, like me, have made their way eventually to South Korea or to other destinations. The regime is sustained only by force, fear and external resources. It is time to deny it that last prop.

The United States should increase radio broadcasting to the North, expose the regime's human rights atrocities and condition economic assistance on a complete closure of the concentration camps and a transparent and direct distribution of food to those North Koreans really in need. If other key states cooperate in these actions, the regime will be faced with a choice of fundamental change or collapse.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2003Jul11.html

Cheol-Hwan Kang, who writes for the Chosun Ilbo newspaper in Seoul, spent 10 years in a North Korean prison camp, where he and his family were sent when he was 9. He defected to South Korea in 1992. He and two other prison camp survivors will be honored July 16 by the National Endowment for Democracy for their work on behalf of human rights in North Korea.

China has little love for North Korea and are attempting to intervene with the course that North Korea appears to be persuing.

The chinese do not have the capability to project their military forces globally.

:ak47: :ak47: :ak47: destroy communists forever