See once again you like to look at just a simple answer to it all.

There are many levels to a human being and life is not one size fits all.

No one is making excuses, most fat people I know live in such a world of shame regarding themselves, and blame themselves so this does NOT apply.

People make mistakes, do damage to their bodies all the time, like the alcoholics and the drug addicts, so quit holding up fat people to a different set of standards.

When you get to 300 pounds it is difficult to exercise.

There are people who hurt just sitting, they are in pain just from existing.

Yes it is their fault for getting to that point to begin with and that's not debateable.

However to simply just state "exercise" as the solution to it all leaves out a very vital part of a solution to a deeply layered problem.

As I stated above there are many reasons a person eat.

And in your initial post you did NOT attack the diet industry...your snide comment attacked people who were over weight.

Then you followed up with a second post and third post attacking me personally all because I state and will continue to state that not everyone can fit under one single plan or answer in life.

No one is whining here, other than those against Atkins. No one is shirking responsiblity here and laying down excuses.

People need a lifestyle change to take place in order to reach their desired weight and healt level and to maintain it.

Living a life of restriction and punishment is something that NO ONE can do forever, which is what most diets are about.

Dr. Atkins has figured out a way to help you through the withdrawals, to switch your energy burning processes so that you can stay the course long enough to develop some better habits.

There is nothing wrong with that.

and for your response about eating whatever you want whenever you want as long as you exercise doesn't hold water for alot of people, and sadly won't hold water for you in the long run.

Some people are insulin resistant, some people have slower metabolisms and this plan addresses all that.

And just because you exercise does not mean you are necessarily the healthiest person around.

There are many other things that can and will affect your health.

Your cholesterol levels, your blood sugar levels etc.

Go ahead and eat whatever you want and exercise you can still have a heart attack or a stroke and die due to your diet.

However I'll continue to follow a plan that has lowered my blood sugar levels, my blood pressure #'s, lowered my bad cholesterol while increasing my good cholesterol.
A plan that has also helped me to lose weight, increased my energy which the combination of the two has enabled me to get more exercise and all the while I'm eating foods that not only taste good but are good for you and cutting out all of the processed crap and not regretting it one damn bit.

I was you just a few short years ago.

I was the guy giving my uncle a difficult time for even considering Atkins, mainly because I could not get past a new idea that is actually decades and in some people's opinions centuries old.

I could not get past what the government and the FDA has pounded in our heads over the past 30 years.

I just hope I did not discourage him enough that he gave up something that could have altered his entire life.

It gave me the shits really badly. :(




:glugglug

LOL it can do that too.

Me, I had gall bladder surgery about 2 1/2 years ago.

This will have an effect on your stool and sometimes you have to take a stool hardner.

My life for the past 2 years was at time horrible. As soon as I would eat I would have to hit the bathroom within minutes or things could get messy.

Sometimes I would have to hit the bathroom before I would leave a resteraunt, and then stop at a gas station or something on the way home even though it was just a 5 to 10 minute drive.

However this plan has all but corrected that, which is just another positive notch in my book.

no shit it is dangerous, i said it many times

when will people learn

Show proof.

This article doesn't prove a single thing.

I'm not a doctor and, I did not and will not research on the net or anywhere else to find proof for what I said. This still won't stop me from expressing my opinion based on experience, and common sense after being taught about nutrition for the 15 years of my sports life.

AHH...so now we get to the crux of it.

You actually know nothing about this at all.

Who cares if you have had 15 years of nutrition classes or 15 seconds. The Atkins plan just about goes against everything you've been taught. And what you have been taught is being proven to be false.

Sorry you wasted your time.

I love Atkins, 2 and a half months, 30 pounds down and eating fantastic food.

Eroswebmaster. That is some sound advice. Good luck with your program!

This 'proof' issue doesnt get this kinda arguments anywhere.
Einstein also proved Newton wrong, his stuff is still taught in all schools, because it still applies to almost everything.
The nutrition lessons i learned also apply to almost everyone. People sure as hell know a lot less about the risks of Atkins diet so far than they know about the facts for ideal nutrition that doctors all over the world came up with in the past decade or two.
I think you are approaching at this with fanaticism.

Have you ever had Haggis?:1orglaugh
Did you ever notice that the # of doctors involved were never mentioned or the level of training they had in nutrition, etc.

My point was you can always find some one to poo poo anything.

okay, nothing against people that have done wonderfully well on atkins - I myself was on it and did well but had to go off of it because my husband was put on a medical diet that conflicted too much and frankly I don't have the time nor money to cook two different meals every night. I am not convinced it is good for the long term but I am also not a doctor.

However, why do I keep thinking 'cult' when I see how people's heads almost spin around and snap at anyone who suggests it might not be good for them?

How about some proof to back up your statment?

also, the Scottish hospital story was all over the news here last week - the hospital said they aren't so much telling people not to be on Atkins as saying that when they are having to stay in hospital for surgery or whatever that then isn't the time to be screwing with their body chemistry (ketones, anyone?) and dropping weight.

And of course, most people lead a very active competitive sports life eh?

omg! You figured us out. Yes..weekly meetings are held at the VFW where we offer up meat to a statue of Dr. Atkins!:1orglaugh

why not get their ass to gym? that would be enough
and god forbid they might lose some weight too

Oh..so now the story is that if you are in the HOSPITAL, that's when you should not be on the diet. Then they're not saying it's bad in your everday non-hospital life?

Because if you are doing high impact sports on a regular basis, you do need to do "carb loading". So of course, Atkins would not be practical for those types of situations.

But just going to the gym on the regular basis is done by millions of Atkins folks.

I have already touched upon this.

Correct me if i am wrong but aren't most Carbs "empty" calories....as in having no nutrional value to the body...and only supply energy is short bursts?

Proof is everything.

There are thousands of case studies done over the years that prove Atkins or any low carb diet is effective and HEALTHY when you follow the plan...and regarding Atkins...not just the induction but the ENTIRE plan.

But more importantly I have seen what low carbing has done for me as well as friends and family.

But people like you see a few articles and that's all the proof you need.

And you accuse me of fanaticism...LOL

well it isn't 'now' because the story as reported over here hasn't changed. They said they weren't making the judgement on the diet as a whole but said that it was not appropriate for hospital meals to be designed for the Atkins diet. Just like if you were on slimfast they would say that if you are about to go in for surgery or if you are ill enough to be in hospital that it might not be the time for you to be having a shake for a meal.

The people from the hospital interviewed on the news over here said that wether or not it is healthy in the long run is the concern of another part of the health service and wasn't what they were commenting on.

#1 you did well on this plan but you are not convinced that is good for long term.

WTF does that mean?

Just because you changed your diet and probably gained some weight back it's not good for long term?

Is that the issue, because if it is that's precisely the point...anything you do to lose weight has to be long term.

#2 re: your cult statement.

Why is it people feel the need to attack Atkins or any other low carb diet? Atkins is just one of them there are many more..

If you're on slim fast is anyone saying anything?

If you try any of the thousands of other diets out there that are far more restrictive and possibly dangerous are you questioned as to why you are on it?

No...people wish you luck then go about their business.

But mention Atkins and you get "schooled" in nutrition and all about the "risks."

But oh yeah...drinking some bogus chocolate shake in a can in place of a meal 2 times a day is a great approach to a lifetime management plan.

okay, calm down. I did well in the short term. I was unable for the reasons stated to continue for the five, ten years it would take for me to know that it hadn't damaged me in the long term. I also just said that I am not a doctor, just said I had a personal concern. I also said that I know people that did very well. SO, i was not attacking you or anyone else on the diet.

Cult comment - well it is the fad diet of the moment so it is getting press so people talk about it. Btw, fads sometimes work.

What I wills say for my short spell on Atkins that it did break me of eating a lot of bread and pasta. I still have it but not very often and everyone is right you don't really miss it. I did miss vegetables. I know you can have them but I am a veggie nut so not having as many mushrooms as I wanted was worse for me than not having bread.

That said, I did a mean mock danish.

Believe me, I know all too well what it is like to start on an eating plan and not have support. Also, give the choice between Atkins and Slimfast and I would be on Atkins in a second.

What I do have problems with is when I tell people that my husband was specifically told not to go on Atkins because of his form of diabetes and people with NO medical training tell me that we should ignore the diabetic specialist and go on Atkins. It happens almost everytime I mention it and that was mostly where my cult comment came from. Relax, if it is working for you i am happy for you and I kind of wish I could go on it but I can't. So, for me it is Weight Watchers which works well for me when I put my mind to it.

I love all the "relax" comments when all I'm doing is sitting here typing.

You read too much into text on a screen, plus it really helps with your cult mentality accusations.

Regarding your husband being a diabetic and people telling you to ignore the doctors advice and follow Atkins, I suggest you take a look into it more.

I frequent a forum that covers a variety of low carb diets, atkins just being one of them.

Anyway there are many people who have had to do both the injections and pill management of their diabetes.

After doing Atkins or other low carb diets some have been able to stop injections and only have to take the meds and are working on that and others have been able to stop both...on advice from their doctor.

There are also many people from the UK who state that right now there is a hostile environment towards Atkins and other LC plans and state you won't get an unbiased opinion from most doctors.

My father is borderline diabetic and was put on a diet by his nutritionist.

But ONLY when he started low carbing did things reverse for him. His blood sugar is normal, he lost 30 pounds and was feeling great.

What happened? The nutritionist at his doctors office jumped all over his ass and told him he needed to be following their plan.

So he quit the LC way and started following theirs and guess what?

He's starting to gain weight back and his blood sugar is slowly increasing again.

We are in this shithole of a mess because of bad choices in our lives, and some of those bad choices include listening to bad medical advice.

How many diabetics do you know that follow their doctor's plans that lose weight or stop taking insulin etc?

I never met any until I started doing Atkins.

:1orglaugh

Sarah here is the diabetic section of the forums I frequent.

You might be able to find more information here:

http://forum.lowcarber.org/forumdisplay.php?f=45

i just started doing the Keto diet 2 days ago. i can already tell it's working. on top of it i work out 6 days a week. this diet is perfect for anyone who wants to keep mass and drop the fat. Carbs are fucking nasty... esp for those of us who sit on our asses all day.

Mcdonalds , pizzahut, kentucky, quick, tacobell, burgerking
I love them all :Graucho

honestly , I have read all the same stuff but each person's case is individual. I am not going to do something his doctor looked him directly in the eye and said would kill him. I am not saying it doesnt work for some diabetics but could you live with yourself if you changed your partners diet directly against a trained specialists personal advice and your partner died becase of it?

No but I would definitely not accept the opinion of just one trained specialist.

There are alot of factors that play into a doctor's decision to have you try one diet over another.

There is money from the drug manufacturers that come into play, politics, etc.

Let's not forget the recent phen/phen debacle, or the silicone breast implants...just proves the point that not every decision made by your physician is always the correct one in determining what is healthy and what is not.

Also the medical industry is not built on curing you.

Hate to sound conspiratorial but it's the truth.

Ask yourself when is the last time they actually cured anything.

All they do now is treat you and manage you...why?

Because it's all about the come back...they're just taking drug dealing to a whole new level.

Money makes the world go around :)

Lot's of great info on that forum, I'm on there a lot.

do you believe everything can be proven as long as it is true?

Ahh...I think I know you. You use Kelly in your nic there as well don't you?

I'm vegasman.

Dude just because you have no proof to back up your claims there is no need to go reaching here.

I already said it's an 'opinion', not a claim, and at least I don't base it on a flawed system that you're calling 'proof'.

LOL flawed system...once again "opinion."

This flawed system has not only been effective for going on 30 years, but is changing the way the medical establishment is thinking about the way we eat.

There are medical reports that come out all the time to back this up, case studies being done to prove that there are no ill effects on this plan with some of those covering decades.

So keep flouting your "opinion."

I'll continue to live on this "flawed system."

you just called something a proof, that isn't. a study not being able to find an ill affect in something definitely doesn't make it a proof.

is that enough of a 'proof' for you that this way of thinking is flawed?

anyway, as I said before, the proof issue doesn't get these arguments anywhere so I'll stop before wasting more time.

if you couldn't get it from my posts, im not attacking you, im attacking myself.. and im not attacking overweight people.. im not going to piss people off that much.. and it's not as if im a skinny guy looking and pointing.. im just being hard on myself.. im trying to keep motivated to exercise. If you took that as a personal attack then I sincerely apologise, I mean going over it it's not hard to see that I guess, but i was talking "with" you not "at" you. I too had an uncle that was overweight - he had a heart attack at 40, he's basically my genetic template and ANY amount of exercise would have prevented it coupled with a few more leafy greens of course, nothing as serious as a big diet...
Anyways I must say im not 300 pounds and at the point where exercise is difficult and a diet is obviously the best initial solution.
but I do have plenty of my own issues that prevent me from doing anything that involves a lot of impact or even jump... those have been my excuses for not exercising..

ok anyways, sorry for coming off as an ass, I was blowing off some steam yesterday - im off to try and get rid of my bitch tits.

Atkins Nutritionals (aka "The Atkins Corporation") sells books and pre-packaged LC products that generally taste like shit. You don't (and I recommend that you shouldn't) buy the bars, shakes, and all the other crap. Whole foods rule.

All one needs to successfully follow Atkins is a $6 paperback book. But you have to read it.

"I got "sick" from Atkins". How the hell can dropping sugar, flour and processed foods from your diet make you sick?

".......... Try exercise + veggies and cut down on fat, sugar, alcohol." No shit, I wonder where I heard that at before? Oh yeah, that's Atkins!

Atkins (and low-carbing in general) is not presented as a "Miracle Cure", it's a change in the way you eat for life. It is perfectly safe. I'll take the word of my endocrinologist over the Google-educated GFY doctors every time.

How's it going, Centurion? I'm still off the diabetes meds and at 66 lbs., how about you?

:mad:

That's funny, at our last cult meeting (ours is held at the Jaycees Hall), we were discussing how the naysayers heads spin around and they start snapping whenever we mention that it might in fact be good for them! :Graucho

Down 38 lbs in almost 5 months. Tad behind in my goal of down 50 by end of Sept. But still have a month to go so one never knows.

My blood surgar is excellent, same for cholesterol, feel great, lots of energy (In the middle of moving and I'm glad I'm not carrying that extra weight around while I do this fun project!).

Drink LOTS of water and work out. In other words, eating a sane diet while doing the other things I should and would be doing even if I wasn't doing Atkins.

It's a no brainer..get rid of the foods that are BAD for you.
Simple philosophy that seems to confuse people for some reason.:1orglaugh

P.S. Good to hear from ya too! Was wondering how you were doing. Sounds like you're still kicking butt which is great!:thumbsup

At what point does it become "proof" for you Lane? Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people with impressive wieght loss and improved health over the last 30 years isn't proof enough? Hundreds of studies that show the diet works aren't proof enough? At what point does it become true then? You tell us, as it doens't seem anything that is said here gets through to you.

The Atkins diet had me shitting blood and registering super high Triglyceride & cholesterol levels in my blood. My doctor said that if I didn't change my diet imediately that I would'nt live very long. That was enough scientific proof for me - continue arguing your theories, I am too young to die.

I think that was the Bud Atkins diet you were on.
Wrong Atkins.:1orglaugh

98

I've never heard of food making you shit blood. I assume he did a rectal scope? He's not a fucking chiropractor, is he? My triglycerides and cholesterols all improved after I started LCing, and mine were all in normal range to begin with. Did you have problems with these prior to changing your way of eating?