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In those cases the USER is going to another site, of their own free will, and clicking on another ad, which in that case the cookie should be over written. THE USER is not given that ability here (with zango) and cookies are being overwritten seconds after the orginal one is being set. That is not the way they were intended to be used. It doesn't matter that it is the way it works, if it is being missed used, intentionally it is still wrong and something I think they can be legally liable for if nothing else at a civil level. |
Will, is this problem occuring with clickcash?
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Exactly, the people who have spyware on the computers are our target market unfortunetly. Like you explained plus in most cases these are people who are new online. People who are new haven't already signed up to that sites you are advertising so you will get credit for the sale... well if zango isn't on their pc. The " no money in porn" comments are tongue-in-check I don't think anyone who says that really believes it. Infact I bet the people who say it are making a lot of money from porn. |
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Every affiliate knows that sales often take place on a users 2nd,3rd,4th visit to a site. I'm much more concerned with how easily the programs allow the sales that should be mine go to some adware company because of their cookie policies. Granted there are ways they could eventually work around it, but it would be a very effective short term solution. If the cookies lasted longer a lot more checks would be going to us, not adware companies, and we would rightfully get credit for sales that occur on secondary visits. |
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When i say cut off the money I am talking about the affiliate companies stop sending checks to them and start banning them. If they don't get paid to do this they will stop doing it. If all sponsors (either by their own choice or by pressure from affiliates) stop supporting these spyware companies, they would be forced to push their own programs or stop. Cutting off the money is always the best solutions IMO.... technology is always changing. I agree with you as well about the cookies, i just dont think that is the best solution to the problem here, but i am sure it would help. Someone started a post a few months back pointing our cookie experation times... some companies here were setting 1 day cookies, that sucks. IMO that is stealing as well. |
Always follow the money trail...
Stop funding the programs that fund spyware. Without affiliates, spyware would have nothing to feed on. Missie |
Bump for the best biz thread I've seen in a long while.
I'm taking notes and definitely going to be examining what we at Homoegrown Cash can do to take steps to protect our affiliates from stolen sales. |
i see a supercharged Will here
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hint: its not a random event you only see the same aff.programs all over these type of "marketing attempts".
as far lawsuits,all talk, no action.... If you were paying attention on the mainstream news you would know that zango went through way more serious threats than a couple of adult webmasters and is still around. |
and something none adware guru told you after 4 pages, zango doesnt allow the promotion of any explicit site directly. Meaning there's no way you can popup any tour to surfers and override a cookie (unless that tour contains no nudity and sexual explicit content).
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bump for the front page
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It is also down to webmasters to educate and pressure thier peers to: A. Never distribute this scumware B. Not to use Zango ads in their promotion They can dress it up however they like, ie alternative shopping options etc...but it is underhand & downright sneaky. Affiliates who work hard to build their traffic and pay high PPC should get paid for every sale they send - if they cant, then we all may as well pack up and go home:Oh crap . Never Thought I'd see you on GFY Kellie AFP but welcome!! :winkwink: |
Sure looks bad that AFF and Cams.com havent made any kind of statement about this, considering that it has been shown a cpl times here and in the other thread that they have an affiliate who is popping pages and overwriting other peoples cookies...
The aff ID has been posted..there should be some action on this and we should be notified of the banning of this affiliate..anything else looks like an endorsement of the theft of honest affiliates sales. |
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Maybe they think this is a performer affiliate and dont want to mess with him/her. The thing is if they do freeze the webmaster, they will be making the same revenue but the commission will be going to the correct affiliates who have actually earnt the $'s. |
Bump for the cause!!
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I'd like to see a response from AFF and cams.com too..
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bumparoo!
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Just wanted to point you out to discussions on this in May:
http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/442282-movierevenue-com-scamming-sponsor-im-calling.html http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/610065-sponsors-please-stop-theft-1-a.html Two seperate threads - good points brought out on both. |
CoolWebSearch is by far the worst piece of shit you can get into your computer.
Sounds to me like Kellie should attend a few adult conventions and do some spyware presentations caught on video for sponsors to see it first hand. :) :) Missie |
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it takes a lot to get me going but once you get me going it is hard to stop me. I can't stand thieves. I can't stand working my ass off to make money just to have someone come steal it from you with little effort. You will be hearing me talk about this for a long time. Who knows how deep this goes. Some people have already posted that some sponsors pay for their own keywords so they can use spyware to steal money from their affiliates, so they dont have to pay out as much. I guess it cost less to pay zango then what they would be paying out to the affiliate if he got credit for the sale. It makes sense they could always use zango or the "affiliate accout" that was being used as the bad guy, not them. Interesting way to shave if it is true. I wonder if any companies that sell lots of traffic mix in spyware traffic to increase the number of hits they can sell. If you buy traffic, wouldn't it be a kick in the ass if you were paying for "xxxxx" traffic but then you saw your account posted here because it was displayed from a spyware popup ? Still waiting for a lot of sponors to say how they handle spyware sales. I don't understand why they won't post they are against it, if it is something they don't support. :warning |
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As i have previously stated several times, we are talking to lawyers about this, if the case has merit for civil action we will proceed with it. If not, I will continue to put pressure on affiliates to not support this. |
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Maybe Vegas in a couple months ? I am going to fire up coolwebsearch on an old pc to see which affiliate companies they are pushing as well. Missie, can you give me a break down of the top 5 or 10 spyware companies. I am going to have someone start installing them and testing them to see which affiliate companies are being pushed there, how the spyware opperates (overwrites cookies, etc.). |
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It's like buying junk food at Burger King but when you pay there are two cashiers - one for BK and one for McDonald's - and the McD cashier takes the money even though they bought BK food. How long do you think that would last in the real world? It still amazes me that there are no rules for the internet for this behavior. People would get killed offline for this. Missie |
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Definitely CWS for sure, you've already done zango. Check Kellie's post on the links she tested, she also names the applications she used. Oh wait, I'll go fetch something on her site... that isn't confidential for members only. :) BRB Missie |
Ok it's not what I was looking for.
I'll give you some names off the top of my head that do or may deal in porn besides CWS. adult-links about:blank (a real pain to remove) websearch surfsidekick exactadvertising/exactsearch xxxtoolbar browseraccelerator (I had to reinstall IE to get rid of that one! it kept coming back) ezula searchscout ILookup virtual bouncer easy search - easysearch safesearch elitebar ISTbar p2p networking purityscan (not sure if it still exists?) sidefind sidesearch sidebar tagasaurus There are a ton of others and many I'm not aware of. Maybe Kellie can add to this list for porn. Since I don't test for this (yet!) I don't know which ones would actually show porn sites and which ones definitely wouldn't. That should keep you busy for a while anyway. :) Missie |
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I go to google pay $1.00 for "cams" . Now some guy goes to zango and pays .02 for the word "cams". Every time a Zango infected computer uses google, zango is stealing revenue from google ads words. They are selling or reselling those keywords on google for .02 where as the person who is paying google is not only paying 50x more then that but will never make any sales from zango infected computers. I am probably not wording that right, but can you picture this... :Oh crap I wonder if google would be liable for allowing this to happen. If i am paying per a click with no oppertunity for a sale, what are they really selling me then ? |
Google is well aware of the problem. I'm not now and never have been a big fan of Google. You email their support and all they do is send you back a bunch of links and tell you to go read them. They don't have a clue!
They got too big too fast and now they think their shit don't stink. Egos of monstruous proportions. Just like Overture, if you're a big advertiser with them, they credit your account to shut you up. If you're a little guy, you eat your loss because they can never find anything wrong. Once in a blue moon you see a few cents added to your account for "invalid clicks" when in reality you should probably get half of your money back. Overture is well known to have been in bed with spyware for years. 2nd tiers ppc are even worse (7Search is tied to CWS and zango that I know of). PPC's are getting sued for click fraud for a reason... Missie |
thanks for the list.
A zangocash affiliate (now ex affiliate) sent me this information from t heir website. Thier tips on how to convert your traffic better using their service: URL Selection There are two methods for limiting excessive traffic when targeting popular URLs. One method is to target the specific product or service page on the competitor's website. By just targeting the homepage, you are often targeting too broadly and a specific product page will be more targeted and result in more conversions. Another method to limit traffic is to insert a "." before the URL. For example, to target the site http://www.mortgage.com, assign the target as ".mortgage.com". This ensures that you only target the mortgage.com website and not ?123mortgage.com,? ?seattlemortgage.com,? ?abcmortgage.com? etc. |
I know they have very strict policies about sharing information with others. Whoever is sending you this or posting a list of targeted URL's has to be very careful here.
I remember reading one of Kellie's post on another forum about 2 years or so ago, something about signing up for a free advertising promotion with a spyware company to see the "insides" of it. She decided against it because of their privacy policy which FORBID sharing any info with others. I had laughed because I had the exact same thought and decided against it for the same reasons. Because no doubt in my mind I would have NEVER been able to keep this for myself, I would have posted that all over the net!!! So I was safer just staying totally away from it. Missie |
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I was typing in coolwebsearch into my browser and a zango page poped up with that info on it. lol. Sponsors... why are you not posting here. I am going to make a list of all of the sponsors who have said they are against it and then going to list the rest of you who wont comment... |
bump...
This thread needs to be seen, read, and re-read. |
Has anyone discovered any spyware remover that's effective in removing this junk?
Havent heard anything on this yet in this thread. |
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The simple way to help fix this is to can anyone using programs like this to steal. Eventually it will effect a sponsors bottom line in that affiliates will see less sign ups from a sponsor and move on. |
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Missie |
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The only way to know if one of your affiliates is using it for your sites is to test it yourself. Install zango on a computer and visit all your sites on a regular basis. When you get a pop up on one or more, the URL is usually an affiliate link with everything you need in it. If not, check the cookie on your computer, it will give you that information. Always make sure you are testing with a clean computer - by that I mean clear all your cookies before your start and as soon as you get a pop up, check your cookies right away before going anywhere else. Once you have the info you need, clear cookies again and start over. It's extremely time consuming for sponsors, you need at least one computer at the very minimum for testing (one you can sacrifice to the wolves), at least one person to do this pretty much all day with all spyware prorams, and then training so the tester knows what he's looking for, what information he needs to retrieve, and what to do with the info once he gets it. That's why many choose to contract Kellie or Ben to do this for them. It's cheaper to pay someone else who will provide everything you need including the video clip showing exactly what and how it happens, than it is to do this in-house. Missie |
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I will get my webmaster to look into this later today and work out what to do. We have only one site that pays affiliates so not too hard. I will can any affiliates I find using any adware or spyware that steals from other affiliates. The positive thing is we are small at the moment and can see the major traffic generators and know how they get their traffic, but now armed with the knowledge I will watch for it. Great thread Will. :thumbsup |
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A few years ago, it was the chaos that mainstream affiliates created on ABW and pressure put on merchants and networks that resulted in "some" changes. The more it is talked about publicly, the more noise we all make, the more we pressure sponsors and educate them as to why it's bad business for them, the further we'll get with it. We'll never get all of them to go clean, some just don't get it now and never will, others just don't give a damn. But if only a few jump the fence to be on the honest side of the track, it's well worth our time and effort. Wouldn't you rather promote a sponsor that will credit you with nearly 100% of your sales (not counting downtime or other factors) than a sponsor that allows spyware and you know that you lose sales every day to a scum affiliate or the sponsor itself? I don't even have to think about it. Missie |
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i have been told by more then one person that some big affiliate companies use installers and make money, a lot of money from it... how they don't see it hurts them more then it makes them, i dunno, maybe they do use it to shave their own affiliates... well i have also been told these same people are laughing at us. even if i was told who these companies were i couldn't post it because i would have no proof to back it up. (he said does not equal proof and i don't want a slander suit from some spyware supporting assholes). So our only option is to post the sites who have affiliates doing this, *their* actions or inactions will speak louder then any accusations i would make. And we need to get united and active on this. EVERYONE of you, this is worse then acacia, worse then some of the shit we have had to face in the past. We are all losing money because of this, are you with me ? :thumbsup |
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When we opened the paysite Eva and I sat down and did a budget. We put in all the costs and obviously we could save on content. We decided to pay out to affiliates as much as we could afford in the belief that the more we pay them the more they send traffic. Allowing affiliates to use this system rewards the lazy affiliates, penalizes the hard working ones and leads to less traffic, installing your own cookie is straight stealing. Both will rob the good affiliates, reward the bad ones and eventually lead to less traffic. My question is why do sponsors allow it, are they such bad businessmen that they do not see the dangers to their business or just struggling to make ends meet? |
bump for scumware
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bump and save us from this spyware shit!
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Bump and sigged.
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another bump...
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great thread.. lets see some more urls from the infected people please.. lets out some of these fuckers..
test some of the big sponsors and post affil id's and pages |
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Did you see this thread? http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/662460-cams-com-aff-nastydollars-adult-com-imlive-sponsor-programs-yes.html It has a screen shot of the some of the keywords (urls) that people can bid on using zango which is just one of the many spyware companies out there. I will post some more affiliate ids here but until we get these affiliate companies to make a statement about this, all they are going to do is ignore these threads. Once they say they will not support it then they will have to ban accounts we post here. Keep bumping this thread. Everyone of you needs to get involved with this. |
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