Lets here some "facts" that aren't your opinion. Haven't seen any yet, just your drivel.

Considering she bitched, moaned, and had a fit over Grand Theft Auto and the locked porn scene in a MA rated game...yikes, anyone that thinks she'll be porn friendly is nuts. She's just another Tipper Gore waiting to happen (remember Tipper and her crusade against music).

Porn friendly candidate, I'd have to do a little more research, taking a guess I'd say Richardson or Edwards might be.

Ummm I'm not the one here making claims, that is you. Re read my post you know the one YOU quoted and replied with lies oops I mean typos. :1orglaugh

You said

Reagan funded the Taliban wrong
Big oil has been in the ME for centuries wrong
Called me a Republican wrong

3 strikes??

You rambled something about internet, gfy, nazis and oversight which to be honest has no correlation to this conversation so I still have no idea the point you failed to make. Now why is it that when I state a fact that Clinton could have nabbed Bin Laden, your immediate reply was to bash Bush/Reagan/Republican?? The correct reply by someone who isn't blinded by partisan politics would have been "Yes he screwed that one up".

Find the book Jawbreaker by Gary Berntsen, read it

They had ONE chance and took their best shot, but he was gone by the time they got the missiles launched. Every Republican in the US screamed WAG THE DOG when he tried to kill Bin-Laden.

The big conservative Republican website has since removed these messages out of disgrace, but here is what they were saying when it happened...

http://web.archive.org/web/200410111...um/a530320.htm

I think this Republican supporter's statement on that page sums it all up...

"The General just said that it should NOT be viewed simply as retaliation for recent events. It is an act of self defense. Yeah, the Clinton self defense...."

Republicans didn't support anti-terror efforts under Clinton, and they didn't support them under Bush until 9/11 actually happened.

Actually there was more then one chance, read Jawbreaker by Gary Berntsen, after the embassy bombings in Africa he was made head of the CIA Bin laden team. He also lead the first CIA teams into Afghanistan in 2001 code named Jawbreaker.
And for you partisan homos out there he blast the hell out of the Bush admin for letting Bin Laden go at Tora Bora

Read Richard Clarks book, it's a much better read, and much more informative. He worked under the first Bush, Clinton, and the current dolt, plus Reagan. You also fail to understand that they didn't have armed drones during the Clinton admin.

Clinton gets blamed for 9-11 all the time, when Bush and co. had over 9 months before 9-11 and 5 years since. Maybe if they wouldn't have had their panties in a bunch over Iraq, he might just be dead by now.

One has to wonder how many of those who posted on that page back then have since killed themselves over their utter stupidity.

Or maybe just died because they forgot how to breath. That takes alot fo brain power and none of them had much to spare.

I have read it and actually I've meet Richard Clark on several occasions.
Funny how you quip that his book is much better and informative inferring you've read both of them then you make the odd statement about drones. which tells me you didn't read Jawbreaker or you would have known we had people on the ground near Bin Laden. Do yourself a favor and stop with the lies, it only makes you look pathetic.

Now for the second time, why is it so hard for you to admit Clinton dropped the ball?

You met Richard Clark not once but on several occasions, and I am dating the Bush twins. You are the one who is pathetic. You obviously subscribe to the adage that you can be anyone you want on the "internets".:321GFY

Why is it so hard for you to admit that 9-11 was Bushy boys fault. If memory serves he was the president at the time, and was warned 9 months earlier but refused to listen to anyone. Just like Iraq now. Everyone on the planet knows it's a lost cause, except him and his yes men. That includes the shemale Condi too.

CLINTON
SCANDAL STATS
COMPILED BY THE PROGRESSIVE REVIEW


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally published October 1998. Partially updated 9/21/00
Please send corrections and additions to THE PROGRESSIVE REVIEW

THE REVIEW HOME PAGE


NOTES


Some of the data has not been updated recently and thus understates conditions. In certain areas, such as anomalous deaths, we have used an extremely conservative count. It is important in considering these fatal incidents to bear in mind the following:


(1) The fact that anomalies need to be investigated further carries no presumption of how a death actually occurred, only that there remain serious questions that require answers.


(2) The possibility of foul play must be taken seriously in a major criminal conspiracy in which over two score individuals and firms have been convicted and over 100 witnesses have pled the Fifth Amendment or fled the country.


(3) If foul play did occur in any of these cases, that fact by itself does not carry the presumption that the White House was involved. Given the footprints of organized crime, drug trade, foreign espionage, and intelligence agencies on the trail of the Clinton story, such a assumption would not be warranted.


ADMINISTRATION RECORDS SET
- The only president ever impeached on grounds of personal malfeasance
- Most number of convictions and guilty pleas by friends and associates **
- Most number of cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation
- Most number of witnesses to flee country or refuse to testify
- Most number of witnesses to die suddenly
- First president sued for sexual harassment.
- First president accused of rape.
- First first lady to come under criminal investigation
- Largest criminal plea agreement in an illegal campaign contribution case
- First president to establish a legal defense fund.
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad


** According to our best information, 40 government officials were indicted or convicted in the wake of Watergate. A reader computes that there was a total of 31 Reagan era convictions, including 14 because of Iran-Contra and 16 in the Department of Housing & Urban Development scandal. 47 individuals and businesses associated with the Clinton machine were convicted of or pleaded guilty to crimes with 33 of these occurring during the Clinton administration itself. There were in addition 61 indictments or misdemeanor charges. 14 persons were imprisoned. A key difference between the Clinton story and earlier ones was the number of criminals with whom he was associated before entering the White House. Using a far looser standard that included resignations, David R. Simon and D. Stanley Eitzen in Elite Deviance, say that 138 appointees of the Reagan administration either resigned under an ethical cloud or were criminally indicted. Curiously Haynes Johnson uses the same figure but with a different standard in "Sleep-Walking Through History: America in the Reagan Years: "By the end of his term, 138 administration officials had been convicted, had been indicted, or had been the subject of official investigations for official misconduct and/or criminal violations. In terms of number of officials involved, the record of his administration was the worst ever."



HISTORICAL CONTEXT
- Number of independent counsel inquiries since the 1978 law was passed: 19
- Number that have produced indictments: 7
- Number that produced more convictions than the Starr investigation: 1
- Median length of investigations that have led to convictions: 44 months
- Length of Starr-Ray investigation (7/00): 67 months.
- Number of Starr-Ray investigation convictions to date (including one governor, one associate attorney general and two Clinton business partners): 15
- Median cost per Starr investigation conviction: $3.5 million as of 3/00
- Total cost of the Starr investigation (3/00) $52 million
- Total cost of the Iran-Contra investigation: $48.5 million
- Total cost to taxpayers of the Madison Guarantee failure: $73 million
- Number of Clinton cabinet members who came under criminal investigation: 5
- Number of Reagan cabinet members who came under criminal investigation: 4
- Number of top officials jailed in the Teapot Dome Scandal: 3


CRIME STATS
- Number of individuals and businesses associated with the Clinton machine who have been convicted of or pleaded guilty to crimes: 47
- Number of these convictions during Clinton's presidency: 33
- Number of indictments/misdemeanor charges: 61
- Number of imprisonments: 14
- Number of congressional witnesses who have pled the 5th Amendment, fled the country to avoid testifying, or (in the case of foreign witnesses) refused to be interviewed: 124


CAMPAIGN FINANCE INVESTIGATION
- As of June 2000, the Justice Department listed 25 people indicted and 19 convicted because of the 1996 Clinton-Gore fundraising scandals.
- According to the House Committee on Government Reform in September 2000, 79 House and Senate witnesses asserted the Fifth Amendment in the course of investigations into Gore's last fundraising campaign. [These figures are included in the larger figures elsewhere].
-James Riady entered a plea agreement to pay an $8.5 million fine for campaign finance crimes. This was a record under campaign finance laws.


STARR INVESTIGATION


- Number of Starr-Ray investigation convictions or guilty pleas to date (including one governor, one associate attorney general and two Clinton business partners): 15
- Number of Clinton Cabinet members who came under criminal investigation: 5
- Number of Reagan cabinet members who came under criminal investigation: 4
- Number of top officials jailed in the Teapot Dome Scandal: 3


SMALTZ INVESTIGATION
- Guilty pleas and convictions obtained by Donald Smaltz in cases involving charges of bribery and fraud against former Agriculture Secretary Espy and associated individuals and businesses: 15
- Acquitted or overturned cases (including Espy): 6
- Fines and penalties assessed: $11.5 million
- Cost of investigation: $22.2 million through 9/99
- Amount Tyson Food paid in fines and court costs: $6 million
- Amount Tyson Food still has in annual government contracts: $200 million
- Reasons individuals other than Espy were convicted or pled guilty: Concealing knowledge of gifts to Espy and his girlfriend (1), providing illegal gratuities to Espy(4), illegally supplementing the salary of a government official (2), concealing receipt of illegal funds on behalf of Espy (1) (Espy's chief of staff sentenced to prison in this case)


CRIMES FOR WHICH CONVICTIONS HAVE BEEN OBTAINED
Drug trafficking (3), racketeering, extortion, bribery(4), tax evasion, kickbacks, embezzlement (2), fraud (12), conspiracy (5), fraudulent loans, illegal gifts(1), illegal campaign contributions(5), money laundering (6)


POSSIBLE CRIMES AND SUSPICIOUS MATTERS INVESTIGATED BY SPECIAL PROSECUTORS, CONGRESS,
AND/OR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTERS
Bank and mail fraud, violations of campaign finance laws, illegal foreign campaign funding, improper exports of sensitive technology, physical violence and threats of violence, solicitation of perjury, intimidation of witnesses, bribery of witnesses, attempted intimidation of prosecutors, perjury before congressional committees, lying in statements to federal investigators and regulatory officials, flight of witnesses, obstruction of justice, bribery of cabinet members, real estate fraud, tax fraud, drug trafficking, failure to investigate drug trafficking, bribery of state officials, use of state police for personal purposes, exchange of promotions or benefits for sexual favors, using state police to provide false court testimony, laundering of drug money through a state agency, false reports by medical examiners and others investigating suspicious deaths, the firing of the RTC and FBI director when these agencies were investigating Clinton and his associates, failure to conduct autopsies in suspicious deaths, providing jobs in return for silence by witnesses, drug abuse, illegal acquisition and use of 900 FBI files, illegal futures trading, murder, sexual abuse of employees, false testimony before a federal judge, shredding of documents, withholding and concealment of subpoenaed documents, fabricated charges against (and improper firing of) White House employees, as well as providing access to the White House to drug traffickers, foreign agents and participants in organized crime.
...

Continued....

UNEXPLAINED PHENOMENA
- FBI files misappropriated by the White House: c. 900
- Estimated number of witnesses quoted in FBI files misappropriated by the White House: 18,000
- Number of witnesses who developed medical problems at critical points in Clinton scandals investigation (Tucker, Hale, both McDougals, Lindsey): 5
- Problem areas listed in a memo by Clinton's own lawyer in preparation for the president's defense: 40
- Number of witnesses and critics of Clinton subjected to IRS audit: 45
- Number of names placed in a White House secret database without the knowledge of those named: c. 200,000
- Number of persons involved with Clinton who have been beaten up: 2
- Number of women involved with Clinton who claim to have been physically threatened (Sally Perdue, Gennifer Flowers, Kathleen Willey, Linda Tripp, Elizabeth Ward Gracen): 5
- Number of men involved in the Clinton scandals who have been beaten up or claimed to have been intimidated: 10


ARKANSAS SUDDEN DEATH SYNDROME
- Number of persons in the Clinton machine orbit who are alleged to have committed suicide: 9
- Number known to have been murdered: 12
- Number who died in plane crashes: 6
- Number who died in single car automobile accidents: 3
- Number killed during Waco massacre: 4
- Number of one-person sking fatalities: 1
- Number of key witnesses who have died of heart attacks while in federal custody under questionable circumstances: 1
- Number of medications being taken by Jim McDougal at the time he was placed in solitary confinement shortly before his death: 12
- Number of unexplained deaths: 4
- Total suspicious deaths: 46
- Number of northern Mafia killings during peak years of 1968-78: 30
- Number of Dixie Mafia killings during same period: 156


ARKANSAS ALZHEIMER'S
- Number of times Hillary Clinton said "I don't recall" or its equivalent in a statement to a House investigating committee: 50
- Number of paragraphs in this statement: 42
- Number of times Bill Clinton said "I don't recall" or its equivalent in the released portions of the his testimony on Paula Jones: 271
- Total number of facts or events not recalled before official bodies by Bill Kennedy, Harold Ickes, Ricki Seidman, Bruce Lindsey, Bill Burton, Mark Gearan, Mack McLarty, Neil Eggleston, John Podesta, Jennifer O'Connor, Dwight Holton, Patsy Thomasson, Jeff Eller, Beth Nolan, Cliff Sloan, Bernard Nussbaum, George Stephanopoulous, Roy Neel, Rahm Emanuel, Maggie Williams, David Tarbell, Susan Thomases, Webster Hubbell, Roger Altman, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton: 6,125
- Average occurrence of memory lapse by top administration figures while before official bodies: 235


ARKANSAS MONEY MANAGEMENT
- Amount of an alleged electronic transfer from the Arkansas Development Financial Authority to a bank in the Cayman Islands during 1980s: $50 million
- Grand Cayman's population: 18,000
- Number of commercial banks: 570
- Number of bank regulators: 1
- Amount Arkansas state pension fund invested in high-risk repos in the mid-80s in one purchase in April 1985: $52 million through the Worthen Bank.
- Number of days thereafter that the state's brokerage firm went belly up: 3
- Amount Arkansas pension fund dropped overnight as a result: 15%
- Percent of Worthen bank that Mochtar Riady bought over the next four months to bail out the bank and the then governor, Bill Clinton: 40%.
- Percent of purchasers from the Clintons and McDougals of resort lots who lost the land because of the sleazy financing provisions: over 50%


THE MEDIA
- Number of journalists covering Whitewater who have been fired, transferred off the beat, resigned or otherwise gotten into trouble because of their work on the scandals (Doug Frantz, Jim Wooten, Richard Behar, Christopher Ruddy, Michael Isikoff, David Eisenstadt, Yinh Chan, Jonathan Broder, James R. Norman, Zoh Hieronimus): 10


FRIENDS OF BILL
- Number of times John Huang took the 5th Amendment in answer to questions during a Judicial Watch deposition: 1,000
- Visits made to the White House by investigation subjects Johnny Chung, James Riady, John Huang, and Charlie Trie. 160
- Number of campaign contributors who got overnights at the White House in the two years before the 1996 election: 577
- Number of members of Thomas Boggs's law firm who have held top positions in the Clinton administration. 18
- Number of times John Huang was briefed by CIA: 37
- Number of calls Huang made from Commerce Department to Lippo banks: 261
- Number of intelligence reports Huang read while at Commerce: 500


POLITICAL FALL-OUT
- According to the National Conference of State Legislatures, Democrats held a 1,542 seat lead in the state bodies in 1990. As of November 2000 that lead had shrunk to 288. That's a loss of over 1,200 state legislative seats, nearly all of them under Clinton. Across the US, the Democrats controlled only 65 more state senate seats than the Republicans.


Further, in 1992, the Democrats controlled 17 more state legislatures than the Republicans. After November, the Republicans control one more than the Democrats. Not only was this a loss of 9 legislatures under Clinton, but it was the first time since 1954 that the GOP had controlled more state legislatures than the Democrats (they tied in 1968).


Here's what happened to the Democrats under Clinton:


- GOP seats gained in House since Clinton became president: 48
- GOP seats gained in Senate since Clinton became president: 8
- GOP governorships gained since Clinton became president: 11
- GOP state legislative seats gained since Clinton became president: 1,254
as of 1998
- State legislatures taken over by GOP since Clinton became president: 9
- Democrat officeholders who have become Republicans since Clinton became
president: 439 as of 1998
- Republican officeholders who have become Democrats since Clinton became president: 3

http://emporium.turnpike.net/P/ProRev/wwstats.htm

Bush record.
Hanging chads to get into office
Can't speaka the engrish
9-11
Katrina
Warrantless wiretaps
2 attorney general scandals
closed door energy policy taken to supreme court to keep it secret
record gasoline prices
runaway deficit
Iraq

Talk about a real winner there.

Jeez.. ever heard of a link??? But if you insist in plastering the content of other websites which may or may not be accurate ...

Continued ....

Continued....



Can't be bothered with the rest - this is boring. Anyways - everyone is totally innocent of all and any alleged offenses :winkwink:

Speaking from a non-US point of view (I'm a Brit), I felt far safer while Clinton was in power than with most of the other modern presidents. He seemed like a calm, thoughtful and deliberate president.

And he could pronounce 'nuclear'.

Bonus!
Blum

No historian calls any president great for presiding over the natural evolution of an economic cycle in a wealthy country. Neither Clinton or Reagan.

JFK gets high marks for Cuban Missle, but is not regarded by professional historians as top 10. Middle of the pack actually, as much as I liked him.

Good reply. Good to hold Teddy in high esteem, too. He deserves it. Love Teddy and call him the 5th greatest. Few historians would put up much of a fight cause they love Teddy too. :thumbsup

101 presidents

What a fun thread.

:)

campimp
Registered User

Location: the clouds


no doubt

well, doubt he would have made 4, but 3 times, probably

Way to negate the intelligent part of the post.

*I misread*

I liked him . . . a lot, but no way was he the best. Maybe the best in the last 10 years.

his term was between the 2 Bushes, so we can say so!

Sheesh, long thread.

I don't know too many Americans that lose any sleep over the fact that you are only getting $1.06 instead of $1.54. I know I could not care less. Sure not going to nominate as "the best" over it.

You aren't that old. :2 cents:
First time I ever voted for a third party candidate. Did not like Bush, but sure did not want Gore.

:1orglaugh

ummmm

Best post so far.

But you don't like Kurds?

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

May one ask why?

There are none . . . . Mary Carey is not old enough to run.

man

yeap, bill was the best president of US ever.

He did that? Damn! I guess then we have no choice but to get Mr. Flynt to run for president :thumbsup

I think he was one of the best. I believe histroy will write it as he was in the top 5

Washington
Lincoln
T Roosevelt
FDR
Clinton

If Blowjobgate would have not attacked him those last couple yrs, and he had a democratic congress he would have possibly solved the middle east crisis , and definatly done something in Africa, and I think khe would have killed Bin Laden too.

Now look what we got, ........ just fucking pathetic
and the worst part is this batch of Dems are too scared to stand up and fight even. This country truley needs a good middle and third option. as the two sides we got now are horrible options.

:thumbsup

From the little I know about Clinton, I think that if the World Trade Centre atrocity had occurred during his presidency we would be looking at a different world now. I think he would have handled Bin Laden very differently, rather than bombing innocent Afghans. I think his strength and calm would have been massive assets, and although the pressure would be piling on him he would have tried to take on Al Qaeda without mashing the whole of Afghanistan along the way.

What would have happened with Saddam? Well, I honestly don't know. I like to think he would have put more into an investigation before sending in the troops, and I would like to think he'd have more respect for the United Nations than Bush did. Not saying he wouldn't have sent the troops in anyway, just that more thought would have been put into it.

Like I say though, I'm really talking from hope, I don't know enough about the US presidents, so please forgive me if you think I'm talking crap.

love those girls

See this happens when you attend institutes of higher learning my friend, they bring in guest lecturers, I take it that is not something you are accustomed to.

I think you should really read Richard Clark's book, you wouldn't be making such asinine comments if you had




It's not hard, find me denying he has fault, please find me saying that. I'll even point you in the right direction - YOU WON'T. He is the most inept president in recent history.

The difference between someone like me and a closed minded fool such as yourself is that you only see in black and white, you are completely incapable of pulling off your partisan blinders and taking a look at the big picture. Clinton has blame in 9/11, it's fact you can not deny, now by saying this am I insinuating Bush has no blame? No, that is your problem and why I said people like are the problem with American politics, you spend all your effort trying to discredit the "other side" instead of trying to see what the problem is and how to fix, the argument is as old as "I know you are but what am I".

So I'll ask for the third time in this thread, why is so difficult for you to admit Clinton has fault in 9/11 when the facts clearly state he does?

You have no idea who I am or what education I have. It makes me laugh. As for pointing to the "other side" as you say I do. Once again, ignorance is bliss.

I am an independant. I voted for Reagan and Clinton, so mr. low IQ figure that one out. I vote for the person who I think has the smarts and personality to run this country. I have no idea how the current pres made it thru grade school, let alone became president.

I point the blame where blame is due. Clinton tried and failed to get Bin Laden. Every time he tried the conservatives cried wag the dog. Bush was warned and did absolutely NOTHING. As someone who lived 2 blocks from ground zero with my family, I have a slightly different perspective than someone at how watching on CNN.

As for you "meeting" Richard Clark. I didn't know seeing a speaker was "meeting". I also find it curious that he spoke at Cuyahoga Falls Beauty School.

I don't like whey either.

If you invite me over for dinner, don't feed me Kurds and whey, please. Thank you.

Because I think it was handled pretty much the way it needed to be handled. People who criticize Clinton, the US and the rest of the coalition on that issue are in my mind out to lunch. Hundreds of thousands of people running for their lives and crying out for help, with an army of fuckhead Serbs behind them pounding their cities and towns with mortars and tanks, raping, killing, and a half-pint wannabe Hitler with one of the worst haircuts I've ever seen in my life leading them.

I'd say the coalition gave them the shit-kicking they deserved. Milosevic certainly got what he deserved. It irks me when some twit or twits start criticizing it. The leaders of many nations chose to have their military partake in that conflict in order to stop it, obviously for good reason, yet every so often you get some asswipe saying "man, Clinton fucked up there, the USA had no business going in there".... retarded.

Not saying anyone on this thread said that, just answering your question. :D

Nor is the guy who made the original comment i was quoting.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

that's a good line

No...check out the Mena scandal for some surprising info about Billy. Think it's on google video...The Clinton Chronicals is good too....

Fuck Hillary
Ron Paul 2008!!

There were better, but I'd put him in the top 10%.

He was one of the few presidents who actually understood the economics he was helping manage.