I personally like revshare. I like to see those rebills come in. You can build a nice roll with those rebills. Ofcourse I do do some PPS like IWantU's $100 per sign up.

The $100 PPS is a limited-time promo, so yes it's definitely our highest-paying program type right now.

I can tell you that normally though, you will make more money at 60-70% Revshare with us than on our PPS :)

Here is some simple math for you socrates:

The sponsor should know the average value of a signup (including rebills and upsells, cross-sells, etc...)

If they know for every signup it averages out to $60 for them, then they can offer say $40 PPS and do fine. No need for anything shady.

You can pick out individual cases where they lose out on one affiliate whose members don't rebill as well, but you can also point out where an affiliate sends traffic that rebills at an above average rate. In the end it will all average out (fradulent affiliates being a different issue). :2 cents:

So you're telling us to use revshare all the time? :)

PPC is the rare thing that allows affils to fuck sponsors.

I am not for or against anything really, just trying to enlighten the sheep.

~Socrates~

I'll respond to the rest of you later

Dude, don't waste your time with this newbie. He clearly doesn't understand our industry.

Socrates, if we're all sheep...how much experience in this business do you have? And in how many areas? Some of your observations are coming across like you have never had any real life experience, but are just making quick observations that seem obvious.

Again I agree about the revshare, but only because it makes more money for me as an affiliate who owns TGP's and has marketed and promoted everything and everyone.

As a paysite owner, I still like revshare because I believe it draws the most honest webmasters to promote you. And those are the guys I want promoting my paysite. Hard workers with whom I'm more than willing to share 50% with. And since I DO NOT offer trial memberships...that means around 15 bucks for every signup to the affiliate. By the time I get my cut after the affiliate gets paid and the credit card processing and the 20% deal I have with IOCASH...I get $7.99.

Does that bother me? Or is it financially crazy because the "simple math" doesn't add up?
No.
I'm making great money with the paysite. And NO, I don't do ANY upsells or cross sells or any of the other stuff that, in my opinion, is the sign of a weak site.

So please tell me why you are so matter-of-fact and talking with such superiority and calling people "sheep"...in a manner that insinuates that you are a marketing genius with tons of knowledge about how this business works.

I'm just asking. Not flaming. But I'd like to know a LOT of people's credentials that come on here with diarrhea of the mouth about how things should work...when they've never DONE it themselves or have any idea how things work. And if I have misjudged you and you are an experienced owner of an adult business who has had experience in many different fields then I apologize in advance for doubting you.

But if you're just a guy who is wondering how this works and you came to a conclusion in your head...then shouldn't the PPS thing be a QUESTION instead of an insulting statement?

Let's leave that conclusion jumping and insulting statements without knowledge to our friend Bill O'Reilly...and start acting like a community of individuals who are actually IN the same business in here.

Do you mean MOOT? And I'm supposed to take you seriously? And yes you are retarded.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Oh thats right I forgot Tranza has the magical powers to know who the fuck I really am and my history in this industry, read up on ALL my threads son, THEN come back and talk shit.

I've been in this business before internet porn fucked up our golden cow, I have been a part of the REAL industry not the "grab a camera shoot some slut throw it on the net" industry.

~Socrates~

Well although there is no real reason for me to post my adult resume here, I will humor you and give a few hints as to my background.

Shot content for some of the 'bigger' offline companies (some are now online as well)

designed a few box covers for same companies

Promoted stripclubs, escort, and adult toy stores (As in worked in their promotions departments NOT an affiliate lol)

ONCE THE NET BOOM CAME....

Worked the 'dark side' for a few companies involving passwords, and irc shit

and another 6 years worth of odds and ends all pretty much behind the scenes,

Because the bulk of this messageboard are nothing but sheep, they are unable to think for themselves and don't even realize their is a small fugly man behind the curtain pulling the strings so to speak.

I have some downtime right now and after years of reading people whining and crying about how they get shaved, shitty support, high chargebacks, oversaturated content, lack of support etc etc etc, I felt it was time to come in and tell the truth and see if anyone would bother to wipe the sleep from their eyes and SEE the truth.

Alas most people here only care about sig views contest threads and nude pics so it's prolly a lost cause, but at least I know I tried lol

I couldn't agree more, but YES I come from the biz, more years then I want to admit and or remember, the 80's are a blur from the drugs, the 90's were the legal battle years and the last 7 have been just plain sad (for the industry I mean) and no one seems to give a fuck, cause no one has stepped up to do anything about it.

FSC doesn't count, their as bad as the US Gov, using scare tactics to CHEAT people out of money that they knew damn well would not protect anyone.

Dave Cummings TRIED to get you people motivated but that lasted about as long as one of your fake drama threads.

This community needs to stop being so fucking greedy and learn how to work together and get things fixed rather then just trying to fleece the marks and retire before your 26 lol

~Socrates~

fiddy.......

This is what makes me smile, when in doubt attack the poster's grammar flubs.

I type fast and often do not bother to check every single last red word, you know what I meant, otherwise why would you need to correct me?

I speak the truth and you know it, and I'm sure a slight few here know what it means when someone only can respond with "your stupid you posted mute instead of moot"

Congrats on the extra post, it looks wonderful under your pretty colored nick.

~Socrates~

Ok first it wasn't a TYPO. A typo is when you type TEH instead of THE. You clearly though MUTE meant MOOT. Normally I'd let that slide, but since you are so insistant that you are smarter than eveyone else you need to be knocked down a peg or two.

I know you speak out of your ass. PPS works fine with me and others. It's none of your bussines if we are supposedly losing out. And if we were fucking over the sponsor they wouldn't bother offering PPS in the first place. Unless you are saying every sponsor that offers PPS is full of idiots.

The situation is it worked yesterday, it creaks and stutters along today and it will not work tomorrow.

The surfer is educated and affiliates sending traffic to sponsors that fucked the surfer to pay for the affiliate are the ones who educated him. Every time you fucked over a surfer you hit another nail into your coffin.

Think about it, $30 to pay for the sign up, and this is a minimum, the sign up needs a $1 product. How long before sites start putting up memberships for an hour for $1.00 a day for $2.00 and just letting the traffic flow to them?

Traffic was king, for a few years, today it's the surfer. There are simply too many options for him.

And all those who think the huge payouts are paid by upsells and cross sells simply do not run a paysite. The surfer joins a site and does not like it, so he joins another site he does not like. He does not do this once he does it every single time he signs up.

Get a calculator and work out the ratios that are needed to pay out some of the PPS, then look at the ratios on your site and common sense will tell you it does not work that way. Traffic that converts at 1-1000 suddenly in a flash goes to buying 1-1 on an upsell. :1orglaugh

I will look into my magic looking glass and predict the future.

Tomorrow you will be lucky to get $5 PPS and rev share will go. The micro fetish and micro niche sites will still do well if they hit the niche right. A lot of sites will find it tougher to make surfers spend.

We were converting at 1-100, we are now converting 1-1,000 and it's getting worse. Traffic numbers are not increasing to take up the loss like they did. There are too many options for the surfer to pay less. The sites that pay you $40 and spend another $10 to support you for the sign up will simply price themselves out of the market.

If I had made that post yesterday everyone would of jumped in and told me they would not send the traffic and without it I'm dead. Now they are losing members, not traffic, to people who don't have affiliate programs.

The affiliate program is good, affiliates are great (the ones who send sign ups LOL) but if I have to sell a product or resell it again and again at 10 times more than other sell it for I'm on a slippery slope.

98 percent of my affils under me convert under 1:200 unigues..and that is a fact

That's cool Socrates. I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying...it's just the WAY you're saying it.
Why bother coming on here full of mystery? Just say who you are. I'm Robbie Boyette. I'm not some "porn name" nick like everybody else on here. I am who I am. I say what I mean.
If you have something important to say that will help this industry, (and I believe you do) then PLEASE don't play the stupid games that so many on here do.
Just say who you are. Say what you did. Say why you feel the way you feel.
Simple.
Why does everybody on this motherfucker feel the need to make things so goddamn complicated. LOL!

Then why do sponsors still offer such high payouts and even higher payouts on bonus days? Funny thing is that I heard back in 2000 that the $35 PPS model was doomed and would soon become extinct. Yet here we are in 2007 and here it stil is around.

Think about what you just said. A site that converts at 1-1000 well the 999 that DIDN'T sign up are not going to see the upsell. The ones that will are the ones that actually PAID for a trial or monthly membership. Someone that has shown a willingingnes to pay is always more likely to pay again than one that never has paid before. So yes I would assume 1000 surfers that paid for membership to convert MUCH better on an upsell insdie the site than 1000 random surfers going to the front page of the same site.

You need to work it out yourself how they can afford to pay.

It's still around today. But with all the pressure coming from sites that meet the surfers needs better, will it be around tomorrow in it's same form? I think PPS will be around, just at a different level. A level the sponsor can put out a good site at a good price and still have a bit left for you.

I believe price is going to be the major factor in the future. Surfers are fast learning that they don't need to spend $30 and then spend another $30. Just so the sponsor can pay affiliates. All these threads seem to ignore the biggest factor in our business. The surfer.

Yes membership traffic converts better than surfer traffic. And as a sponsor up selling to some of the best site on the Net in my niche, better sites than mine LOL, I know how well. It's not well enough to pay you the money they are getting.

I have a good site, a site members can trust. I sell to good sites and I know what the conversion ratios are. I also get them selling back to me and again I know the value of their traffic. It's no where near good enough to pay you the the money some are offering.

The one thing that all these threads have ignored, or passed over, is the most crucial element in the business. The one that every body shouts is the most important.

Traffic or should I say the surfer.

Firstly you don't own him. He's intelligent enough to surf the Net, he's got money for a computer and he learns fast. Often he learns faster than the affiliates trying to sell to him and I would say 9 times out of 10 he knows more about the product he's buying than the guy sending him to the product.

He's not a newbie if he's buying and he's not a fool.

Generally speaking over the last 10 years we have ignored his needs, we have on many occasions conned, misled or just over sold him. And it worked because there was little alternative and the supply of new surfers was abundant. All that has changed.

Today there are sites selling 1,000s of movies $10, or sites selling a single movie for a single dollar or sites giving them away for free. He no longer needs to pay for his porn. The idiots who think closing down sites stealing content are blind. They simply do not get it.

What we have to do is worry about what the surfer wants, what will make him spend money. Not worry about how to send more traffic to a site that can't convert what it already has.

I'm not saying the affiliate model is dead or dying. I'm saying it will need to change with the times.

It's still a good model, but needs to adjust so the product meets the surfers needs.

Yes this will be hard for many to take and it will cause the demise of some and others will flourish and prosper. Pay out 10% of what you pay out today to 10% of the affiliates. But get more sign ups. :thumbsup

Don't shoot my numbers please.

Well the math is off a little.

Dont forget programs often going PPS got alot of things goin on under the hood along with the shave. There is no denying shaving is not out there, if you think shaving does not happen to you, ya better think again.

What do the sponsors got to insure profit?
1 They got Cross sale happening.
2 Once members subscribe they get a basic area where they are 1 click upgraded for better content. Free Trials are essentially based on the 1 click upgrade.

So you ad a cross sale at an additional 25 bucks the surfer is hit for.

So with a cross sale and the 1 click upgrade the surfer is knocked.
$25.00 Xsale + $25.00 Membership. = $50.00

$35 bucks to the webmaster.

$15 to the program. With possible recurr's and data information on the subscriber for future sales via email.

The above scenerio is optimal but does often happen.
Also, you are not rewarded a sale until the credit card is actually hit.
When they sign up does not mean shit, ya goto wait 3 days usually to see the result unless of course the subscriber upgrades before the period.

There are prolly over 40 or so different ways this sort scenerio can be worked out to pay webmasters and each one warrants its own payout program and payout amounts.

So there you go in a nut shell, the Sponsor programs are not really getting fucked. I just told ya guys the basics that most succesful programs have in thier arsonal.

This may be about the most ridiculous thread ever.. The numbers, ideas, and stats as to what and why things are happening is absolutely laughable.

1) Paysites aren't converting 1:1000, the average is around 350, not much up from the 250 8 years ago.

2) Webmasters convert worse, not the paysites, because the traffic bubble they work within (not getting fresh sources) has dried up. Fresh traffic still converts like old-school.

3) PPS will be the end all, not revshare or ppv options. At that, some people have already tried lower level ppv (per clip/scene, ect) and they don't covert better.

4) The price & options DO NOT convert members, the content does, fact! You can have amazing content and charge whatever you like. PPV charges 10 times the price as membership sites, because they have amazing content that no other sites on the Internet have, so they can.

5) Video sites, are no the future, they do well but they still offer a limited type of content and needs. Are they going to keep the price at $15 a month after they reach 10,000 movies?... no!

6) PPS make money through exits/upsells/xsells/upgrades, ect.. The sale pays you and the other webmasters, everything else is the fluff on top. Please don't ever confuse that..

7) PPS programs do not have to shave. NATS and MPA programs don't shave, and many pay pps and offer super high bonus rates.. The math works, don't knock it simply because you don't get the math. Note: Bigger programs that did shave are dead, think about it.

THAT is the truth! You find a niche, you give the surfers exactly what they want and make it nice and easy to navigate...and you WILL make money longterm!
It's so simple...yet so hard to do.

Everybody keeps asking me about marketing tips and how I got my little paysite so successful in a couple of months. And I keep trying to tell them that REAL marketing starts at the very foundation. You have to have a great product to begin with. And for me that starts with Claudia-Marie. Her personality and enthusiasm and "real-ness" just shine through and make a lot of the girls who are just going through the motions for a paycheck look weak.

The surfers see that. And for my situation...targeting the milf and big titty lovers...it's been great.

I don't offer them trials...it's full recurring membership or nothing.
I don't offer them a bunch of feeds or live chat with other girls.
I don't offer them ANY upsells or cross sells or any of that bullshit.

What I GIVE them is exactly what they wanted. Just the way I want something when I choose it.

I was talking to someone the other day about some of the paysites out there and they made the very revealing comment that on some of the solo girl's websites, it's hard to figure out WHO the girl is that the website is dedicated to!

Ain't that the truth? Most of them are so busy trying to have a HUGE pile of content that they fill the site up with thousands and thousands of pics and movies and chat with OTHER girls.

Why? To make the review sites happy?

I wouldn't spend 5 minutes in those sites.

If I pay 30 bucks to see a woman that I think is smoking hot...then that is what I want. Not to have a bunch of content of other girls shoved in my face or offers to join other websites.

That kind of stuff is insulting to the surfer. I know, I know...a lot of guys are making all that "extra" money by doing that. Well, if it works for you then so be it.

I've made my money over the years by NOT treating surfers like cattle. I treat them the way I want to be treated and it seems to work for me. To me that is REAL marketing. The rest is just advertising.

So true, so true.

But why is your observation so wrong, so wrong? :upsidedow

Though I have to agree with you on just about every aspect of what you are saying I do have to point out that the old adage is "it is probably a good business deal when no body goes home happy"

There are very few sponsors out there that have the retention to make PPS work without a bunch of uncredited upsell links, sign ups that seem to vaporize into dubious "credits", and other things that piss off consumers like pre-checked cross sells.