socrates420

PPS = YOU GET FUCKED....

It does not take a rocket scientist to know that if your getting paid $40.00 for a $20.00 - $30.00 sale someone is bound to take a hit down the line.

You have been herded into the belief that it is perfect math and works a higher percent of the time, but in fact it can not and does not.


Mike sends 5,000 hits to the join page of FuckPals.com (dunno if it's real and don't care) Lets say Mike has great targeted traffic and he sees a percentage of 10% signups (500)

Now because Mike sent 500 signups his pps is bumped to say $35.00 each which is a total of $17,500 not bad Mike give yourself a handjob!

Now back to FuckPals... Their having a signup special first 30 days for only $9.95 (Recurring at $29.95 after 30 days) Mike's 500 sales generated $4,995

This is saying that NONE chargeback, refunded, or were flagged as fraud (Again Mike GREAT JOB! lol)

So..... What do we have here????

Company MADE $4,995.00 from Mike's Sales and PAID Mike $17,500.00 thats a bite of over TWELVE THOUSAND DOLLARS!!!

SPONSORS would have you think it all works out, and they have NO REASON to cheat you.....

Ok, more basic math time

Fuckpals.com is a great site, with a retention rate of 60% for an average month, so, out of Mike's 500 sales, 300 of them pay another $29.95 for another month. ($8,985.00) the sponsor makes next month free and clear from Mike's leads. BUT their still down about 6k from what they paid Mike.

The 3rd month FuckPals.com looses roughly 20% of the remaining 300 members Mike sent in leaving 240 members paying the $29.95 ($7,188.00) the sponsor is now up just about $1,000 after paying out $17,500.00 three months ago.

But we forgot to add in the sponsors Bandwidth, designers, employees, sigwhores, legal fees, taxes, content expenses, processing fees and any other overhead, AND this example is with JUST ONE PERSON!

Multiply it by a few hundred (cause we all know not everyone can send a sale) and these figures will skyrocket.

Now... look at all the math, and tell me, honestly you think your not getting fucked somewhere? you honestly think the sponsors want to pay you more then they make? someone's ass is sore and it's not theirs by a longshot.

THIS is why you should NOT use PPS! it can ONLY serve to hurt you in the long run.

WHY do people use the pps option in the first place? cause your all greedy fucks who long for the quick fix instead of working hard for your money, you want everything yesterday or not at all, you created this monster.

enjoy.

~Socrates~

Sands

So are you implying that affiliates get fucked because sponsors shave to makes ends meet, or that sponsors get fucked because they're paying out more than they can afford? And what about the revenue created from cross-sells and upsells, as wells as consoles?

Pleasurepays

you lost 90% of GFY with the words "simple math"

will76

all i can say is seeing words like fuckpals and handjobs I think boyalley's radar will be going off soon ;)

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SmokeyTheBear

you forgot about the upsells.

and when 10% of members retain for over 6 months they have doubled their money. you cant double you rmoney at the bank in 6 months

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will76

A couple reasons why I prefer PPS over Rebill.

- If the sponsor goes out of business, loses its processing etc.. I do not leave millions on the table in rebills I can not collect on. At most I lose 1 check.

- If the sponsor does a piss poor job of updating their members area that will reflect on my income.

I have been burned so many times with rebilling I prefer to get most of my income from pps. When given the option I pick PPS every time. Has NOTHING to do with Greed. Now, I do mix in a little recurring money, nice to have incase you get in a bind, can't keep your traffic going, end up in the hospital, whatever.

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RP Fade

you're forgetting cross-sales, exit sales, limited trials, upsales and email marketing in your formula

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socrates420

I am simply implying that the reason for our current state of affairs of affiliates getting fucked is due to their overwhelming greed and lack of common sense.

They are so quick to bitch that a sponsor is allowing their ads to be displayed on torrentsites and rip sites but they forget that this only hurts THEIR pockets not the sponsors, because the more sales the sponsor can generate WITHOUT THE AFFILS the more money will stay in the sponsors pockets.

Affils want it all and they want it now, and they do not utilize common sense in business at all, and until they can see and treat this as a business they need to shut up and deal with the messes they put themselves into.

~Socrates~

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socrates420

Upsells do not factor into my equation, just the overall greed and lack of business sense of the average adult webmasters.

And EVEN if we factor in up-sells, cross-sells, and trick-sells it STILL does not fully balance out all of the sponsor's overhead that I mentioned in my original post.

~Socrates~

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will76

definetly need to add that to the equation. I wouldn't be surprised if some sponsors wash on the membership fees vs the affiliate payouts and then make their profit on the upsells, cross sells, everything you listed etc.

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kane

You also forget that many pps sponsors don't pay for all exit sales so they may have made some money there. Also many sell the emails of their members so they get more cash there. As someone else said there are also up-sells and often cross sells.

My best recurring sponsor (and I've tried a lot of them) over time has made me an average of $36 per sign-up. That adds in all the trials that don't convert, refunds, rebills and everything.

So say I send 100 sign-ups in a month and they pay me an average of $30 per sign-up. I get $3,000. But if I would have used revshare I would have made a total of around $3,600. The difference is that with that revshare the $3,600 would have been paid out over 9 months or longer.

For me the bottom line is pretty simple. I have done reviews of a lot of paysites out there and many of them suck. I can honestly say I have no idea how they keep members. When I send someone a sign up, I am now out of the equation, I have no control over the member's area or anything else so I would rather just get my money and go on my way. That way if they cancel, chargeback, or whatever, it doesn't effect me. Also, if the site suddenly disappears 3 months from now I don't lose all of my rebills because the site owner was a thief or found god or got a boyfriend that didn't want her to run the site anymore.

will76

I still don't see how you figure this is a greed decission.

I make $35 a PPS or 60% of $34.95 = $21 if my signups average 2 months or more in this example I come out ahead. I see it as a business decission. I think the " greedy" thing to do would be to do the revshare deal. I think if the site was real good you could make more from that then pps, but I rather make less money with pps to play it safe. greed

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Sands

I see.

Three-hunned.

socrates420

For some reason we keep forgetting about the sponsor's overhead...

Bandwidth, designers, employees, sigwhores, legal fees, taxes, content expenses, processing fees and any other overhead

Factor THOSE in on top of your other magical sales.

~Socrates~

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socrates420

It's a greed thing cause TOO MANY webmasters are only looking for the quick fix, and thus the sponsors responded with the PPS method, but common sense tells you you CAN NOT KEEP paying $40.00 for a $20.00 sale and NOT get fucked in the longrun...... BUT the sponsors DON'T get fucked YOU DO....

Torrents, Z a n g o , dirty deals, myspace shit, password sites, all the stuff affiliates cry and cry and cry about is the DIRECT RESULT of sponsors trying to CUT YOUR ASSES OUT,

You want all that 'bad shit stopped?" End the greed and get to work ;)

~Socrates~

PS, see my other threads for more fun

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dmhubby

Wait .. it's the new math right ... 1 + 1 = 4

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socrates420

Ummmmm no

~Socrates~

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GatorB

Where to start with this retardedness

Show me a program that you get a 1/10 sign-up ratio and I'll suck your dick and swallow.

Which stupid program does that? All the programs I know charge $25-$40 a month. Yes there are some that have a $9.95 monthly option, but you don't get paid anywhere near $35 per sale.

I think that may be over your head.

Ok first of all sponsors do make some sales off of type-ins not many, but it adds up. I'm sure some also get sales from their own SE listings. Some sponsor don't pay for check sign-ups or pay less. Sponsors also sign-up for other sponsors programs which they promote on their 404 pages or they just promote their own sites on 404 pages. Sponsors usually have up sells on the inside of their sites. All of this is income which they do not have to compensate an affiliate for.

Also how many people sign-up for a program then never earn enough to get a payout and then stop promoting that program? The sponsor gets to keep that money.


I think someone fucked your in the ear and hit your brain and damaged it.


What do you care what hurts me or not?

You're a dipshit. Yes I'll take a for sure $35 over $3 and a MAYBE the surfer will renew at least twice so I can get my $35. If a sponsor is willing to show me stats for the last 6 months on any site on how many trials convert to monthly and how many of those monthlies continue to re-up then I might start using revshare. Any sponsors willing to do that?

Sansa

You're forgetting a fact that most of these members can be upsold to a bunch of others shit, like access to other websites that FuckPals.com owns. If done right you can retain a customer for quite without the customer actually being aware that he stays in the same network.

will76

I think someone is having a little too much fun on friday night with their fake nick. Perhaps sipping a little too much sake.

__________________
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NTM

you are clearly implying that the sponsor shaves

well, if they shave on PPS, whats to stop the from shaving on RevShare?

TeenCat

somebody is trying to find a hole on something that works. ok break is over now lets go back to the work k? ;)

__________________

socrates420

CLEARLY? Ya Think? NOPE SORRY, what I 'implied' and FLAT OUT SAID was, PPS is one of the reasons that sponsors FUCK affiliates in the first place.

As long as the bulk of the sheep want instant gratification then the sponsors need to find other ways to boost their income, and the ways they have always done that affils are JUST NOW getting wise to and pitching a royal cry fest.

It's no secret just look behind the curtain and see the big and powerful Oz lol

~Socrates~

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socrates420

Can you comprehend what you read?

Saying I'm trying to FIND a hole in an industry that was built on a backbone of lies, tricks and scams is like trying to get a quadapalegic to do jumping jacks.

The math is all correct, but your all still to fucking blind to see it, why do sponsors do all the 'bad things they do to you' your greedy, hungry sheep content on eating small bits from the pasture AS LONG as you don't have to wait for the grass to grow.

~Socrates~

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jonesonyou

we are all monsters thats why we are here.

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woj

So what's the alternative? 60% revshare? If you do "simple math" with your example you will notice, you would make fraction of what you did with PPS...

Don't worry about how they manage to do it, but paying $30-$35 per signup isn't THAT hard....

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DBS.US

Just Simple Math
A sponsor that shaves on PPS also shaves on RevShare=YOU GET FUCKED....
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Robbie

Hey bro...bandwidth is 7 cents a gig. For my paysite, I do all my own design. I don't use "sigwhores", don't even understand how they could make me one thin dime. Keep my legal fees to a minimum. My paysite is a single girl's site...so my "content expenses" are low since I just pay males to do scenes with her and that isn't expensive (plus I write ALL those expenses off on taxes), processing fees on 29.99 is about 5 bucks.
I'm making great money. Working hard and making money. It all makes sense to me.

I agree about the stupidity of PPS. I hate it. I probably sold 10,000 memberships to Nasty Dollars over the last few years. All PPS because they didn't offer revshare. I would have LOVED to have used revshare as I would still be getting checks from that.

I NEVER choose PPS when I promote a site. I go revshare all the way. If the site sucks and I don't see it retaining...I simply move on and don't promote them anymore.

But I definitely see how the paysite owners can pay out those big PPS payouts. They are going to make their money back damn near everytime. Especially if their site is good.

In my opinion, if you are promoting PPS then you are losing a lot of money. Promoting sites via revshare has made me wealthy. And the guys I know that were greedy and wanted the quick money now? They are always scrambling.
But maybe it's just the way different people think. I've always been one who believes in hard work and building stuff up. You can't "build up" your money on PPS. You have to make or break every month. Whereas with revshare you can build up some really BIG accounts over the years.

__________________
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ClaudiaMarie.Com

mikesouth

:thum bsup

__________________
Mike South

It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

socrates420

-100 points for FAILING to be witty



Wow thanks... (unzips fly.... stops and zips back up) thanks for taking the time to ignore what I wrote and only try to tear down my numbers, let me get even more 'retarded' as you like to call me....

Mike sends 2 million hits to FuckPals 5000 of THOSE HITS goes to the join page AND THEN 10% SIGNS THE FUCK UP, does that make your head hurt less?



I guess regardless of your join date and shiny green name display your totally unaware of the plethora of programs out there who have SPECIALS on their prices (Weekend promos, special discount days OR $1.00 trial signups) These sponsors ALSO pay Per Sign Up and guess what, 9/10 times the payout is HIGHER then the sale price



Pot meet Kettle, Kettle Meet Pot



interesting if I'm so wrong and 'retarded' that you will take the time to explain all these mute points, YET you still (as has everyone else here) failed to include the rest of the sponsor's overhead into your scenarios. when you factor in the following....

(1) Low member price which is less then what was paid for generated lead

(2) Monthly overhead sponsor must pay B/W, content, legal, traffic, staff, etc

(3) Chargebacks, fraud, or plain old cancels

What is their overall loss or gain?



Wow and here I thought that was just excess earwax, you sir are a truly gifted internet poet and should be worshiped by the sheep. every time you ALMOST look intelligent you let loose a gem like this.


Honestly I give two shits what hurts you or not, however the PPS system as a whole hurts our entire industry and thus hurt ME, if people would rub the shit from their eyes and see this business for what it really is things MIGHT change for the better, prolly not though to be honest, your all too fucking greedy and selfish to give two shits.


Sponsors will never EVER open their books like that to a petty ass employee, just like Burger King would not show the fry cook the sales figures and demographics information. whats the point?

I'm a dipshit because I see the flaws in the system? then you sir are a grand fucking master of humanity.

I hope you enjoyed wasting all the time it took you to TRY (and fail) to refute me on a point by point basis, and again you handled yourself oh so professionally ;) but the facts remain the same regardless of how many names you want to call me.

Numbers don't lie my friend the machine is broken and it's all of your faults.

~Socrates~

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socrates420

Saddest thing I read here, yet 100% correct

~Socrates~

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socrates420

Woj, Sadly I fear there is no valid alternatives, because pandora's box has been opened years ago and it is damn near impossible to close it, not that anyone really wants to in the first place.

I'm not sitting here telling ppl NOT to use PPS, just enlightening the sheep on the TRUTHS to it, and a reference as to why their sponsors are doing 'dirty deals' in regards to sites like z a n g o and others.

There is an old business adage that roughly says this....

"A good business meeting is only such when both parties walk away saying I fucked him!"

It seems to me that our entire industry was built on that adage.

~Socrates~

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I'm Not A Bro BUT I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express Last Night!

socrates420

1 + 1 = 2 2 + 2 = 4 4 + 4 = 8

A Sponsor like ANY businessman/woman will do whatever it takes to ensure they have a profitable business even at the expense of their 'employees'

common-fucking-sense here folks. nothing more nothing less.

~Socrates~

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socrates420

back up top

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sniperwolf

uhm... i think i need some popcorn here ...

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Loki

ask and you shall get it...




Oh and seeeeeeeee siiiiiiiig

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RP Fade

Yup..exactly.

Even though we started offering PPS for NScash, 90% of our affiliates stayed on revshare. And let me tell you also that on our TGPs, when things slow down like they do every now and then, Revshare is what keeps your income levelled, even though ratios took a dive.

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TheDoc

How about this math..

The largest paysites/programs online are pps based, the largest revshare companies don't cover one week of signups for the largest pps programs. Why? Because revshare programs can only ever make 50-60% net profit, where PPS has no limits. See, when a PPS webmaster STOPS promoting the program, the program makes pure net. When a revshare webmaster stops promoting the program still pays 50%. Simple math.

Forget all the exits, upsells, type-ins produced, xsells, upgrade plus, membership plus, cancel mails, other join options they don't pay on, 401 traps, 404's, general webmaster error, and so on...

I like revshare, but PPS is the biggest because of simple math, not because of scamming the affiliate.

__________________

PPC

What are your views on PPC ?

__________________
Pay Per Click

SilentKnight

"You're all busy fighting over the scraps from Longshank's table."

IllTestYourGirls

I personally like revshare. I like to see those rebills come in. You can build a nice roll with those rebills. Ofcourse I do do some PPS like IWantU's $100 per sign up.

__________________

Varius

The $100 PPS is a limited-time promo, so yes it's definitely our highest-paying program type right now.

I can tell you that normally though, you will make more money at 60-70% Revshare with us than on our PPS

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Varius

Here is some simple math for you socrates:

The sponsor should know the average value of a signup (including rebills and upsells, cross-sells, etc...)

If they know for every signup it averages out to $60 for them, then they can offer say $40 PPS and do fine. No need for anything shady.

You can pick out individual cases where they lose out on one affiliate whose members don't rebill as well, but you can also point out where an affiliate sends traffic that rebills at an above average rate. In the end it will all average out (fradulent affiliates being a different issue).

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Ramp

So you're telling us to use revshare all the time?

socrates420

PPC is the rare thing that allows affils to fuck sponsors.

I am not for or against anything really, just trying to enlighten the sheep.

~Socrates~

I'll respond to the rest of you later

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tranza

Dude, don't waste your time with this newbie. He clearly doesn't understand our industry.

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Robbie

Socrates, if we're all sheep...how much experience in this business do you have? And in how many areas? Some of your observations are coming across like you have never had any real life experience, but are just making quick observations that seem obvious.

Again I agree about the revshare, but only because it makes more money for me as an affiliate who owns TGP's and has marketed and promoted everything and everyone.

As a paysite owner, I still like revshare because I believe it draws the most honest webmasters to promote you. And those are the guys I want promoting my paysite. Hard workers with whom I'm more than willing to share 50% with. And since I DO NOT offer trial memberships...that means around 15 bucks for every signup to the affiliate. By the time I get my cut after the affiliate gets paid and the credit card processing and the 20% deal I have with IOCASH...I get $7.99.

Does that bother me? Or is it financially crazy because the "simple math" doesn't add up?
No.
I'm making great money with the paysite. And NO, I don't do ANY upsells or cross sells or any of the other stuff that, in my opinion, is the sign of a weak site.

So please tell me why you are so matter-of-fact and talking with such superiority and calling people "sheep"...in a manner that insinuates that you are a marketing genius with tons of knowledge about how this business works.

I'm just asking. Not flaming. But I'd like to know a LOT of people's credentials that come on here with diarrhea of the mouth about how things should work...when they've never DONE it themselves or have any idea how things work. And if I have misjudged you and you are an experienced owner of an adult business who has had experience in many different fields then I apologize in advance for doubting you.

But if you're just a guy who is wondering how this works and you came to a conclusion in your head...then shouldn't the PPS thing be a QUESTION instead of an insulting statement?

Let's leave that conclusion jumping and insulting statements without knowledge to our friend Bill O'Reilly...and start acting like a community of individuals who are actually IN the same business in here.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

GatorB

Do you mean MOOT? And I'm supposed to take you seriously? And yes you are retarded.

socrates420

Oh thats right I forgot Tranza has the magical powers to know who the fuck I really am and my history in this industry, read up on ALL my threads son, THEN come back and talk shit.

I've been in this business before internet porn fucked up our golden cow, I have been a part of the REAL industry not the "grab a camera shoot some slut throw it on the net" industry.

~Socrates~

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socrates420

Well although there is no real reason for me to post my adult resume here, I will humor you and give a few hints as to my background.

Shot content for some of the 'bigger' offline companies (some are now online as well)

designed a few box covers for same companies

Promoted stripclubs, escort, and adult toy stores (As in worked in their promotions departments NOT an affiliate lol)

ONCE THE NET BOOM CAME....

Worked the 'dark side' for a few companies involving passwords, and irc shit

and another 6 years worth of odds and ends all pretty much behind the scenes,

Because the bulk of this messageboard are nothing but sheep, they are unable to think for themselves and don't even realize their is a small fugly man behind the curtain pulling the strings so to speak.

I have some downtime right now and after years of reading people whining and crying about how they get shaved, shitty support, high chargebacks, oversaturated content, lack of support etc etc etc, I felt it was time to come in and tell the truth and see if anyone would bother to wipe the sleep from their eyes and SEE the truth.

Alas most people here only care about sig views contest threads and nude pics so it's prolly a lost cause, but at least I know I tried lol

I couldn't agree more, but YES I come from the biz, more years then I want to admit and or remember, the 80's are a blur from the drugs, the 90's were the legal battle years and the last 7 have been just plain sad (for the industry I mean) and no one seems to give a fuck, cause no one has stepped up to do anything about it.

FSC doesn't count, their as bad as the US Gov, using scare tactics to CHEAT people out of money that they knew damn well would not protect anyone.

Dave Cummings TRIED to get you people motivated but that lasted about as long as one of your fake drama threads.

This community needs to stop being so fucking greedy and learn how to work together and get things fixed rather then just trying to fleece the marks and retire before your 26 lol

~Socrates~

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