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-   -   Anyone paying attention to the Max Hardcore trial going on now? (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=831374)

Pleasurepays 05-29-2008 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quentin (Post 14251054)
You make some interesting and valid points -- but how exactly does the industry go about 'picking' its battles with respect to obscenity prosecutions? The government decides whom to indict, and the lawyers involved have a professional, ethical and legal obligation to defend their clients, and to do so vigorously. The industry's support for people who get indicted is typically rhetorical/verbal in nature, only (it's not like we're all lining up to contribute to the Max Hardcore Defense Fund here, after all....)

how did the movie industry do it? they were proactive. they had the brains to understand the problem and the intelligence to organize and solve it. they created a ratings system and they police themselves so the federal government doesn't have to.

i'm not saying thats an answer for porn... but it shows that a similar situation existed, people took a proactive stance to protect their industry and many decades later, no one is challenging them on it.

this industry does the exact opposite. it waits for the wrinkly old disgusting guy to get busted for pissing down a girls throat as she chokes and cryies... then when the thunder comes... 1/2 the people act as if they should be defending it no matter what, or are totally confused as to why a society should be concerned.... as if that makes any fucking sense at all or is going to have any meaningful impact in the big picture of things.... and in the meantime, the next old, disgusting wrinkly fuck is out there doing much worse things, and bringing the same heat again... and again and again.

Pleasurepays 05-29-2008 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quentin (Post 14251054)
It sounds like what you are advocating is setting up a list of "best practices," establishing a trade organization around those best practices, and enforcing those best practices by excluding and ostracizing producers who do not conform with the ground rules as set by the trade organization... is that about right? Setting aside for a moment the question of whether this industry CAN be motivated to do it, is that essentially what you think needs to happen?
i would say that ANY solution is better than being passive and continually putting the worst of the worst offenders, doing tasteless and very over-the-top things in front of a federal judge and jury, so that judge can then make decisions about YOU and how YOU should run YOUR business.

Mister E 05-29-2008 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxCandy (Post 14249701)
Love em or hate him

He is our "Canary in a Coal Mine"

very well said

:2 cents:

theking 05-29-2008 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddog (Post 14251302)
* Whether the average person, applying contemporary community standards, would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest,
* Whether the work depicts/describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct or excretory functions[2] specifically defined by applicable state law,
* Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value. (This is also known as the (S)LAPS test- [Serious] Literary, Artistic, Political, Scientific).


So, which one do you think the government will fail on?
I...for one...seriously doubt that the government will fail on anyone of them.

Quentin 05-29-2008 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks (Post 14251386)
ASACP did it for CP. So, it can be done.

An "Adult Best Practices" seal might be a very good idea.
Yes, but ASACP's best practices really only affect whether or not you can join/sponsor ASACP.... those that don't make the cut have not been shut out of the business or cut off from billing (by and large, at least), so there really isn't that much iron in the glove, as they say.

People have tried to establish organizations along these lines before, and they haven't gained much traction. There was Larry Walters' effort some years ago, "Best Practices Adult Video" which Alec Helmy (XBIZ) set up, and there have been others as well.

The way I view things, there are several distinct questions and arguments where obscenity law and other forms of restrictions on speech and expressive conduct are concerned. I wrote about this for YNOT a couple years back -- with apologies to John Stuart Mill for my amateurish summarizing of his immensely important work.

baddog 05-29-2008 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theking (Post 14251496)
I...for one...seriously doubt that the government will fail on anyone of them.
Pretty much my point.

Quentin 05-29-2008 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddog (Post 14251302)
* Whether the average person, applying contemporary community standards, would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest,
* Whether the work depicts/describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct or excretory functions[2] specifically defined by applicable state law,
* Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value. (This is also known as the (S)LAPS test- [Serious] Literary, Artistic, Political, Scientific).


So, which one do you think the government will fail on?
Believe it or not, the most likely vulnerability to the government's arguments may well be in prong 1 of the test, as strange as that might seem.

If the defense can show (and is allowed to present evidence to the effect) that Tampa residents have been downloading similar materials hand over fist, that could aid their argument that the videos are not patently offensive to enough of the community that the overall community's standard should be interpreted as 'loose' enough to tolerate content like Max's.

It will be tough sell, no doubt, and there's no guarantee that the judge will permit the defense to present such data (assuming that the defense has had the opportunity to gather the data in the first place, and has taken that opportunity), but Jeffrey Douglas, who is one of Max's attorneys in this case, has presented such evidence and made such arguments before, and has had some success in persuading juries that their community's standard is far more accepting of extreme porn than one might think.

This is not to say I think an acquittal is likely, but it certainly would not be the first time a defendant has faced seemingly long odds in an obscenity trial and come out on top. He certainly has very good representation going for him; if you have to step into court to face federal obscenity charges, you can't ask for much better than having Sirkin, Douglas, Kinsley, etc. in your corner.

eightmotives 05-29-2008 12:02 PM
I highly doubt he will succeed in what he is doing. He is pretty much fighting an uphill battle, the content he shoots can be proven to show that participants are being abused. He will definitely go down for this due to the abuse his models are under during the filming process.

TheDoc 05-29-2008 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quentin (Post 14251616)
Believe it or not, the most likely vulnerability to the government's arguments may well be in prong 1 of the test, as strange as that might seem.

If the defense can show (and is allowed to present evidence to the effect) that Tampa residents have been downloading similar materials hand over fist, that could aid their argument that the videos are not patently offensive to enough of the community that the overall community's standard should be interpreted as 'loose' enough to tolerate content like Max's.

It will be tough sell, no doubt, and there's no guarantee that the judge will permit the defense to present such data (assuming that the defense has had the opportunity to gather the data in the first place, and has taken that opportunity), but Jeffrey Douglas, who is one of Max's attorneys in this case, has presented such evidence and made such arguments before, and has had some success in persuading juries that their community's standard is far more accepting of extreme porn than one might think.

This is not to say I think an acquittal is likely, but it certainly would not be the first time a defendant has faced seemingly long odds in an obscenity trial and come out on top. He certainly has very good representation going for him; if you have to step into court to face federal obscenity charges, you can't ask for much better than having Sirkin, Douglas, Kinsley, etc. in your corner.
Agreed... Problem I see though, is the average Webmaster - which is more exposed to hardcore porn - finds his content to be a bit to extreme.

The community would be at the tolerate point if the local porn stores also sell his movies or other similar hardcore related titles, and they are purchased. He sent these through mail - the Internet isn't in question.

tony286 05-29-2008 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleasurepays (Post 14250921)
If people in this biz weren't totally retarded, totally disorganized and actually had some guidelines and standards to work and live by this industry wouldn't have many real legal problems. How about not pushing? how about setting some clear, defensible boundaries and staying within them... rather than always challenging the world to shut you down?

There is a difference between drawing the line in the sand, one which you know can be defended and staying behind it and the totally incorrect assumption that anything and everything you do is somehow Constitutionally protected and to keep pushing the most influential groups in this country to shut you down by making sure they always have the ammo they need to keep firing at you until they hit something.

Right now many of you US idiots want to make the argument that shitting on, pissing on, vomiting on, pissing in girls mouths until they choke and cry etc isn't "obscene" or isn't obscene in GodsVillage, Indiana... and most of you then go further to suggest that what he is going through is unfair as if no one really knew that you can't just mail out totally over the top porn with some old wrinkly fuck pissing into a girls mouth until she starts to choke and cry to any state, county and city in the country without a serious risk of being prosecuted.

Really?

The biggest problem with this industry is that it is full of anti-social idiots with a strong resentment for authority. Thats all fine and well when you are rebelling against your alcoholic father who frequently tried to kiss you or watch you take a bath... but it's not hardly a winning formula for the long term success of a controversial industry whose greatest enemies are infinitely more organized, deep pocketed and focused on the simple goal of stopping you and that usually have the public and federal government behind them to do it.

The "rights" you many of you seem to think you have in the US are an illusion. People make the laws. People make the laws against people like you. They can because they know you are weak. You are the low hanging fruit of society. They will attack you because they know no one is going to defend you... because you can't defend yourselves. They will continue to attack you because they can always rely on the fact that you will constantly be throwing whatever offensive thing you do right in their face and daring them to do something about it. And they are fucking you over right now. They are arguing that each one of you is a Max Hardcore,.. no better. A disease in society. Eventually, they will win and you will lose and it will be your fault, because far too many people in this industry are irretrievably damaged, self destructive fuck ups... and because no one will separate you and what you do from the absolute worst of the worst in this biz.

The public doesn't see (and never will see) "good" and "bad" pornographers. They just see "pornographers" and the public perception of you will never be any better than the publics perception of Max Hardcore and some old guy shitting on an 18 year old runaway while she cries. And its not the publics fault. It's your fault. You repeatedly make the choice to defend the worst of the worst in a political and social climate where you will eventually lose. You don't even have the sense to pick and choose battles and choose battles you can win. Instead, you let the worst of the worst in this industry pick a fight on your behalf. Brilliant! Are you fucking kidding me? Eventually you will lose these fights... And once you finally lose... you will lose big because the fight against you will never stop and you don't have the brains or foresight to organize and defend yourselves, set standards and police yourselves. Instead... you are happy doing lines of cocaine off a strippers ass while complaining about who is President and how unfair life is and will just let the Christian Right do it for you.

How will the government restrict your business because you didn't have the brains, foresight and organizational skills to put yourself in a defensible position first? Because in the most important fights, you choose to not have a strong defensive plan or even an offense?

This industry is like a really big, cocky, heavy weight fighter with a glass jaw. Eventually, its going to catch one on the chin and it will be lights out for all. It's not a question of "if"... only "when" .... and why? because most of you stupid assholes prefer to think its your "right" and will keep doing that until its finally decided to take that "right" away because you just can't and won't see the bigger picture.


Obscene: ob·scene
Pronunciation: \äb-'sen, ?b-\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle French, from Latin obscenus, obscaenus
Date: 1593

1: disgusting to the senses : repulsive2 a: abhorrent to morality or virtue; specifically : designed to incite to lust or depravity b: containing or being language regarded as taboo in polite usage <obscene lyrics> c: repulsive by reason of crass disregard of moral or ethical principles <an obscene misuse of power> d: so excessive as to be offensive <obscene wealth> <obscene waste>
Well said but it will never happen in 100 yrs. I wish Max the best it has to really suck for him.

TheDoc 05-29-2008 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightmotives (Post 14251656)
I highly doubt he will succeed in what he is doing. He is pretty much fighting an uphill battle, the content he shoots can be proven to show that participants are being abused. He will definitely go down for this due to the abuse his models are under during the filming process.
Wasn't it was proven that his models knew and had consented to the events taking place in his films? I think this is part of the reason they took the consenting adults direction.

Quentin 05-29-2008 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 14251684)
Agreed... Problem I see though, is the average Webmaster - which is more exposed to hardcore porn - finds his content to be a bit to extreme.


The community would be at the tolerate point if the local porn stores also sell his movies or other similar hardcore related titles, and they are purchased. He sent these through mail - the Internet isn't in question.
As I understand it, the Internet doesn't necessarily have to be involved in the way the indicted material was distributed for local community downloading and/or searching habits to be introduced as evidence of the pertinent community standard. Some judges allow such evidence under their interpretation of relevant case law, others do not. Unless I'm mistaken, in the case that I'm aware of that Jeffrey Douglas introduced search data as an exhibit, the material indicted was DVD content. (I'm pretty sure that's correct, because I don't believe that Jeffrey has been involved with any obscenity cases where the content was strictly distributed via the Internet.)

Some judges will not even allow you to present evidence of what is for sale in local porn shops, btw -- the government typically argues that this is evidence merely of what is *available* in the community, and as such that information simply isn't probative with respect to what the community finds acceptable/tolerable, and some judges have concurred with that reasoning.

Personally, I think search/download data is more relevant than what is available in the local shops. Now, if lawyers could provide data on what material is actually being purchased and/or rented from those shops, that would be highly relevant, I should think. Naturally, my opinion on any of this means squat... somewhat less than squat, actually, since I'm no way qualified to assess the propriety of any judges' interpretation of the rules of evidence.

baddog 05-29-2008 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quentin (Post 14251616)
If the defense can show (and is allowed to present evidence to the effect) that Tampa residents have been downloading similar materials hand over fist, that could aid their argument that the videos are not patently offensive to enough of the community that the overall community's standard should be interpreted as 'loose' enough to tolerate content like Max's.
Have they been?

Quentin 05-29-2008 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddog (Post 14251799)
Have they been?
i don't think they've reached that point in the trial, and I have no idea what the defense has prepared in terms of exhibits or evidence. Since jumping the fence back to the subscription website side of the biz again, I'm not as hooked in to the goings-on of the trial as I would have been if I were covering this for one of the industry publications/news sites.

From Mark Kernes' latest article about day 2 of the trial, it sure sounds like the Internet has come in as an issue, though:

"The prosecution's first witness was James Fottrell, a computer forensics specialist who testified that he had done a "traceroute" search on the Website maxhardcore.com, and had also downloaded the contents of that site - including roughly 950 .wmv video files, some of which were promotional trailers designated "Euro Version" - to a hard drive. He further testified that at least five of those video files were "available to the public," including the "Euro" trailers for Max Extreme 20, Pure Max 19, Golden Guzzlers 7, Fists of Fury 4, and Planet Max 16 - which the prosecution then proceeded to play for the jury ... and the approximately 15 legal interns from around the courthouse who had gathered in the audience for the presentation."

Mark's article, as usual for Mr. Kernes, is highly detailed and chock full of info. Kudos Mark!

- Q.

baddog 05-29-2008 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quentin (Post 14251827)
i don't think they've reached that point in the trial,
I meant, are the citizens of Tampa downloading this stuff hands over fist (no pun intended)?

Pleasurepays 05-29-2008 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 14251696)
Well said but it will never happen in 100 yrs. I wish Max the best it has to really suck for him.
why does it suck for him? he chose this heat. he knew it would come. he wanted it and wants it. thats the personality he has and why he produces what he does. its not like he isn't a damaged person and actually running a YMCA during the day time and volunteering his time for youth groups and raising money for cancer victims. he chose all this attention and chose it on behalf of the entire industry

i would say it sucks for the industry as a whole that one guy will go out of his way to potentially destroy a billion dollar industry for doing a who lot of things that we all agree we would be much better off without.

Quentin 05-29-2008 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddog (Post 14251838)
I meant, are the citizens of Tampa downloading this stuff hands over fist (no pun intended)?
Ah -- I totally missed the joke. Duuuhhhh, Q.

FightThisPatent 05-29-2008 01:19 PM
[QUOTE=Pleasurepays;14250921]If people in this biz weren't totally retarded, totally disorganized and actually had some guidelines and standards to work and live by this industry wouldn't have many real legal problems. .................../QUOTE]


f* righteous post! I should have quoted the whole thing so if anyone missed it they should have read it, or read it again and tell 2 other people.


Fight the wakeless!

CDSmith 05-29-2008 01:51 PM
http://members.shaw.ca/cyberdogs/pics/fightthepower.jpg

fuzebox 05-29-2008 01:56 PM
It would be interesting if he loses, and then in 6 months the government takes the next step and starts cracking down on vanilla hardcore porn...

Snake Doctor 05-29-2008 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesouth (Post 14250869)
While I do hope Max wins I am not happy about the position this puts the industry in. He is making it much easier for the rest of us to be taken down because of the extreme nature of his content.
That's way off base Mike.

This is a win-win for guys like you.

If Max is convicted, then how does that hurt you? You can't compare videos of girls getting pissed on, puking, and pretending to be underage to the stuff you film. It's a night and day difference.
Him going down in no way makes it any more likely that the government will A) go after you, or B) obtain a conviction if they do.

On the other hand, if Max is acquitted, then there's no way in hell a prosecutor will think they can get a conviction against "vanilla porn" when they can't get a jury to rule that pissing in someone's mouth is obscene.

BVF 05-29-2008 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleasurepays (Post 14251841)
why does it suck for him? he chose this heat. he knew it would come. he wanted it and wants it. thats the personality he has and why he produces what he does. its not like he isn't a damaged person and actually running a YMCA during the day time and volunteering his time for youth groups and raising money for cancer victims. he chose all this attention and chose it on behalf of the entire industry

i would say it sucks for the industry as a whole that one guy will go out of his way to potentially destroy a billion dollar industry for doing a who lot of things that we all agree we would be much better off without.
Man calm down....Max Hardcore doesn't have the influence to ruin SHIT.....There is WAY too much money to be made for every last pornographer to go down and become homeless because Max is in court....

CDSmith 05-29-2008 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake Doctor (Post 14252551)
That's way off base Mike.

This is a win-win for guys like you.

If Max is convicted, then how does that hurt you? You can't compare videos of girls getting pissed on, puking, and pretending to be underage to the stuff you film. It's a night and day difference.
Him going down in no way makes it any more likely that the government will A) go after you, or B) obtain a conviction if they do.

On the other hand, if Max is acquitted, then there's no way in hell a prosecutor will think they can get a conviction against "vanilla porn" when they can't get a jury to rule that pissing in someone's mouth is obscene.
Agreed.

If it wasn't Max "bringing down the heat on the industry" it would be someone else. Industry people tout Larry Flynt as a hero to our cause, but back in the late 70's and early 80's his stuff was pushing the boundary of good taste at the time, and like Max is today he was criticized for pushing that boundary.

Snake Doctor 05-29-2008 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddog (Post 14251302)
* Whether the average person, applying contemporary community standards, would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest,
* Whether the work depicts/describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct or excretory functions[2] specifically defined by applicable state law,
* Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value. (This is also known as the (S)LAPS test- [Serious] Literary, Artistic, Political, Scientific).


So, which one do you think the government will fail on?
Possibly #1 for the reasons that Quentin already mentioned.

Also, something that was mentioned in the article....the defense was able to get the judge to go along with the idea that the community merely had to "tolerate" such content, not "accept" it.

Possibly #3.
There are artists with NEA grants who put a crucifix in a glass of urine and call that art. I wouldn't be surprised if several things like that were presented to the jury by the defense attorneys.

Also, the work has to be "taken as a whole"
I haven't watched the DVD's in question but I'm sure there's a good reason that the defense is insisting that the jurors be forced to watch all 5 DVD's in their entirety, and that reason isn't that they think these folks are going to be happy about watching 10+ hours of Max Hardcore's content.


And, law aside, what it's really going to come down to is do a bunch of people from Florida think they should be able to put a California man in prison to do hard time because someone voluntarily went to his website and ordered a DVD that some people will find objectionable?
The only people who were forced to watch this are the members of the jury. Anyone else who sees it chooses to do so, all of the performers chose to perform and signed releases and were paid handsomely for their time.

I still have a little faith in the American spirit. :2 cents:

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude 05-29-2008 03:46 PM
http://www.jizzsquid.com/media/05-31..._5_31_max1.jpg

http://www.lukeisback.com/images/images/maxhardcore.jpg

Max has baited the government for years (of course they have harassed him too) - it will be interesting to see if his legal team can keep his ass out of the slammer this time...

ADG

czarina 05-29-2008 03:52 PM
I agree with BadDog, that Max pushes the envelope.
But no matter what his videos are about, I think we should all be on Max's side... this is US against THEM!

Pleasurepays 05-29-2008 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVF (Post 14252606)
Man calm down....Max Hardcore doesn't have the influence to ruin SHIT.....There is WAY too much money to be made for every last pornographer to go down and become homeless because Max is in court....
do you even have the slightest understanding of how the US legal system works? were you gone the day they taught life?

you don't need a law degree to understand the fundamentals of case law and precedents.

tony286 05-29-2008 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleasurepays (Post 14251841)
why does it suck for him? he chose this heat. he knew it would come. he wanted it and wants it. thats the personality he has and why he produces what he does. its not like he isn't a damaged person and actually running a YMCA during the day time and volunteering his time for youth groups and raising money for cancer victims. he chose all this attention and chose it on behalf of the entire industry

i would say it sucks for the industry as a whole that one guy will go out of his way to potentially destroy a billion dollar industry for doing a who lot of things that we all agree we would be much better off without.
I can still fell bad for him, if it wasnt him it would be someone else. We work in the I can do whatever the fuck I want industry. You described it all perfect.

topnotch, standup guy 05-29-2008 06:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleasurepays (Post 14252746)
do you even have the slightest understanding of how the US legal system works? were you gone the day they taught life?

you don't need a law degree to understand the fundamentals of case law and precedents.
Yeah, well maybe that's why you should be rooting for Max to win. It's not about liking the guy, it's about what's best for the industry.

And you don't even need high school diploma to understand those fundamentals.

BVF 05-29-2008 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleasurepays (Post 14252746)
do you even have the slightest understanding of how the US legal system works? were you gone the day they taught life?

you don't need a law degree to understand the fundamentals of case law and precedents.
Of course I understand how it works....I also know how the MARKET system works......And if there is a MARKET for something and a high DEMAND, then no amount of LEGISLATION is going to stop it.....

Pleasurepays 05-29-2008 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVF (Post 14253385)
Of course I understand how it works....I also know how the MARKET system works......And if there is a MARKET for something and a high DEMAND, then no amount of LEGISLATION is going to stop it.....
jesus.

apply your retarded logic to CP, scat or beast sites and let me know how much money you make with your supply and demand argument before you go to prison. i'll be rooting for you.

Pleasurepays 05-29-2008 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by topnotch, standup guy (Post 14253377)
Yeah, well maybe that's why you should be rooting for Max to win. It's not about liking the guy, it's about what's best for the industry.

And you don't even need high school diploma to understand those fundamentals.
whats best for the industry is not to sit back and let the worst of the worst end up on CNN, speaking for YOU and forcing you to defend them shitting down the mouth of a questionable looking teen in pig tails and braces as she cries and pukes.

mikesouth 05-29-2008 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake Doctor (Post 14252551)
That's way off base Mike.

This is a win-win for guys like you.

If Max is convicted, then how does that hurt you? You can't compare videos of girls getting pissed on, puking, and pretending to be underage to the stuff you film. It's a night and day difference.
Him going down in no way makes it any more likely that the government will A) go after you, or B) obtain a conviction if they do.

On the other hand, if Max is acquitted, then there's no way in hell a prosecutor will think they can get a conviction against "vanilla porn" when they can't get a jury to rule that pissing in someone's mouth is obscene.
Not really as was said in the previous post the general population doesnt distinguish between good pornographers and bad pornographers....to them we are all pornographers and they dont make distinctions betweeen what max does and what I do. Sure theres a difference but the general population doesnt get it.

For years I have said that if we dont police ourselves we will have the government doing it for us.

Now when it comes down to it we have the fate of future federal prosecutions hanging on violence, girls pretending to be under aged, crying while being pissed on and made to vomit. It isnt going to bode well for any of us but this is the path we chose, when we chose not to act.

Do I think Max should go to jail, yes honestly I do, but NOT FOR OBSCENITY, maybe for assault and battery or maybe it should be a civil matter even but we no longer have that choise, Max is now representing us all, whether you like it or not.

broke 05-29-2008 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesouth (Post 14253482)
Do I think Max should go to jail, yes honestly I do, but NOT FOR OBSCENITY, maybe for assault and battery or maybe it should be a civil matter even but we no longer have that choise, Max is now representing us all, whether you like it or not.
What would someone have to do/film/distribute, in your option, before they should be sent to jail for obscenity? My contention is that people who don't find Max's content obscene don't believe obscenity exists (which is fine - I guess).

Penny24Seven 05-29-2008 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleasurepays (Post 14251841)
why does it suck for him? he chose this heat. he knew it would come. he wanted it and wants it. thats the personality he has and why he produces what he does. its not like he isn't a damaged person and actually running a YMCA during the day time and volunteering his time for youth groups and raising money for cancer victims. he chose all this attention and chose it on behalf of the entire industry

i would say it sucks for the industry as a whole that one guy will go out of his way to potentially destroy a billion dollar industry for doing a who lot of things that we all agree we would be much better off without.
OBSCENITYOBSCENITYOBSCENITY, The law is in a grey area. No way in hell anyone would want any case to be lost, It will just start the ball rolling. The ball rolls both ways too. Yeah it seems they started with a good case though. sucks

kane 05-29-2008 09:01 PM
Quote:
If the defense can show (and is allowed to present evidence to the effect) that Tampa residents have been downloading similar materials hand over fist, that could aid their argument that the videos are not patently offensive to enough of the community that the overall community's standard should be interpreted as 'loose' enough to tolerate content like Max's.
This actually happened in a case in Utah a few years back. A small video store owner was dragged into court for having a few porn movies for rent (literally about a dozen or so titles) anyway, his defense attorney during his second trial (the first ended in a hung jury) found out how many pay per view movies were ordered at hotels and how many were available in the area. He also found out how many cable and satellite pay per view movies were ordered in the city, Provo, and how it compared to the national average. It turned out that city bought pay per view porn at a rate three or four times the national average. During his closing he told the jury if your neighbors are ordering pay per view porn at 3-4 times the national average then clearly the community is not offended by it. They found him innocent. He was bankrupt, but innocent.

kane 05-29-2008 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by broke (Post 14253531)
What would someone have to do/film/distribute, in your option, before they should be sent to jail for obscenity? My contention is that people who don't find Max's content obscene don't believe obscenity exists (which is fine - I guess).
Should obscenity exist? Should we not be able to watch what we want in our own homes? If someone makes a movie like Max makes and 1000 people buy it, they chose to buy it. If it turns you off, cool, don't watch. The people in the videos are consenting adults, it is consenting adults watching them. I personally don't like that type of porn, I prefer the softcore stuff, but I think we should be free to watch, read and listen to anything we want. If our neighbors don't like it, that is fine, they are free to do as they wish because they aren't involved.

I have never heard of one case where someone was convicted of obscenity and suddenly the community sprouted to life and home values shot up and jobs were created because that person was no longer making porn.

mikesouth 05-30-2008 12:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by broke (Post 14253531)
What would someone have to do/film/distribute, in your option, before they should be sent to jail for obscenity? My contention is that people who don't find Max's content obscene don't believe obscenity exists (which is fine - I guess).
I actually dont think obscenity should exist or in the event that it does you better be able to define it by more than just "I know it when I see it"

As it sits you dont know whats obscene untill after you have been convicted of obscenity. Now I think its pretty obvious Max knew he had criossed the line but still

And answer me this one...this scares me more than anything...If Max walks on this....What will he do next?

CybermedAndy 05-30-2008 01:10 AM
I despise his videos and overall attitude towards the talent

But I hate the government trying to control what I watch even more, hope he wins

Pleasurepays 05-30-2008 05:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian837 (Post 14253610)
OBSCENITYOBSCENITYOBSCENITY, The law is in a grey area. No way in hell anyone would want any case to be lost, It will just start the ball rolling. The ball rolls both ways too. Yeah it seems they started with a good case though. sucks
regardless of what anyone wants, adult will eventually be destroyed because people are too ignorant and backwards in this industry to organize and do anything about it.

whether you want or don't want him to win this case,... it won't change the fact that this is an industry with powerful enemies and one that refuses to police itself and seems quite intent on forcing the government to do so... and they will. Eventually, they will climb right up your ass with a warrant... because you did nothing but babble on about "gray areas" and allude to "unfairness" and yammer on about the Constitution as if thats going to matter in the least. if its not Max Hardcore getting busted... it will be another idiot ... John Superhardcore, Willy Darkhardcore or whoever. They are the ones representing YOU and your business to the public and in federal court. They are the ones in the public eye, telling every concerned adult "this is pornography and fuck you if you don't like it"

"obscenity" and "gray areas" have little to do with going so far over the line that everyone, even pornographers agree its wrong. thats not a "gray area". in fact, that argument of it being a "gray area" is one that this industry could solve... just as the film industry did. They took a "gray area" and created a "teen area" a "childrens area", an "adult area" and a "porn area" to preserve their business and pre-empt the need for government to jump in and police their industry for them.


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