Hi Dav,

We never claim to be a huge successful cam operation. We do 4 things:

1. We wrote LiveCamNetwork, the software.
2. We use the software ourselves to run our own studio here in Montreal. We have about 10 chat models only.
3. We show others what we do and how we make money, if asked. People can take our advice or leave it.
4. We make the live streams available to other websites if they want them (Mbase), and show them how to share theirs if they want to.

That is really the basics. It's not rocket science at all.

What IS Rocket science to alot of people is obtaining chat models and obtaining good quality traffic. This is the real base of this argument. For traffic, always tell our clients to build affiliate programs, or buy traffic from various comapnies who appear on GFY and others. It is completely up to them what they choose to do with our advice.

Cheers!

Bullshit mark! You make the bold claim above on the front page of your website, and reassure unsuspecting prispects by phone that you have plenty of models to get them started in the business. It's very easy to blame customers for your miserable failure and shady business practices, but what's hard is to deliver a good value to them for their money, and ensure that they succeed along with you.

As for succeeding like you, if you grossing $300,000 or so is running a successful cam operation, you're living in lala land! Out of that money, you have to deduct what you pay models, advertising, salaries, studio rental, utilities, bandwidth, servers, software, etc., so what are you really left with in the end? $5,000 per year? LOL!!! The truth is you need to such money out of your "customers" who buy your "license" in order to continue your dog and pony show of trying to apear successful. How can you claim to be giving advice to others, when it's clear you yourself have no clue how to run a successful camsite with more than 1 model working around the clock?

I am still waiting for the success stories, Mark. I bet there isn't a single successful site who uses your software and system! Come on, prove me wrong!

I better stop posting, some fake nick from GFY land is going to send the Crips over to see me :upsidedow

Good morning, PornSiteNewbie:

Not true, PornSiteNewbie.

The front page of our website is here: http://www.2much.net/ and does not make any claim to this whatsoever. The MBASE description page at http://www.2much.net/mbase.php says exactly what mbase does. And don't forget, it is completely optional. Webmasters can turn it on and off, enable or disable any chat model, or change their buy or sell prices at any time.


Our FAQ page located at http://www.2much.net/faq.php also includes this line:

Is LiveCamNetwork a business opportunity, or a business tool?

LiveCamNetwork is first and foremost, a tool. It is a complete streaming solution, and it is also an accounting and management system. It provides everything that you need to help manage a successfull video chat business, or expand your current business into the video chat arena, including a basic website. It does not however, make money by itself. it has nothing to do if you have no customers for it to process, or no Live chat broadcasters to stream.

No PornSiteNewBie that is not true. I tell all of our clients if their intention is to have a website that features college-ageed "Girl-Next-Door" type of chat models, that mbase can work for them because we would gladly provide these feeds to them.

I also point out that you are free to communicate with other chat sites who have models via the FORUM in our administrator area, which you never used.



I am not blaming you for "our" failure. I am simply saying that you are wrong to blame us for your own failure. There is nothing "Shady" about this at all. As you have seen by all of the screen shots I have posted for you so far, all of the reports have always been available to you. I am sorry if you did not take the time to read them but you cannot blame us for this.


Of course there are costs. The point was to show you that $300,000 + in chat minute sales can be generated. The point was to also show that low fraud and chargebacks are also a reality when you pay attention to the numbers. All of the webmasters on GFY check their stats every day, and are forever making changes to their sites, content, etc. Clearly you did not do this.

Again, I'm sorry you failed at your cam business, but if you are going to blame us and be happy with that, then you will not have learned the mistakes you really made.

Maybe I also failed in learning English correctly, as the way I was taught the words above prominently displayed right on the home page of www.2much.net don't happen to mention any of those things. It is a very bold claim that is an outright lie, and it was the #1 reason I bought your expensive license!


Hahaha, you are joking, right? Not only is this a bold face lie, as this is not at all what you told me during our phone conversation over a year ago before I signed up for your service, you also didn't deny that conversation when I mentioned it earlier in this thread. As for being free to communicate with other chat sites who have models in your forum, there aren't any!!! 0, zip, nada!

Mark, I think your biggest problem is you spew out so much bullshit, that you are even starting to believe it yourself! Haven't you read anything you wrote here? You blamed me 100% for everything you did wrong, everything! As for chargebacks, maybe if my site wasn't broken half the time, and you had more than 1 model online, the chargebacks wouldn't have been as high. Did you ever take that into account? We both know that I had the only website on your network with any real traffic. My Alexa score was higher than your own Live Cam Network, the huge success story, so yes, I had more customers then your system was meant for, and they actually expected to get what they paid for.

Would you like to continue? Keep posting your lame BS, and I will keep giving you twice as many reasons why everyone should stay clear away from your scam like the plague! We both know it's only a matter of time before more people who got ripped off by you come forward, so each post you make helps me spread the word.

Also, why can't you come up with a single successful site on your network to share with us how successful you made them? Why?

PornSiteNewbie:

I can post screenshots all day if you want me to. So far all you have demonstrated in this thread is that you ignored all of the reports, ignored warnings of high chargebacks, ignored instructions, etc. I on the other hand have pointed out each of your errors with lots of detail and lots of screenshots, which instead of acknowledging, you have chosen to completely dismiss.

Here is my reply to your latest post :


Go back and read what I said again.



This Screenshot says otherwise.

http://www.2much.net/gfy/bbs-screenshot.jpg

As you can see, there are 438 threads and 1185 posts. Please notice the thread dedicated to credit card fraud too.

I do not bullshit. I never said we're a mega coproration. My company is made up of myself, MediaGuy, Kedra Alliard, 3 full time programmers, and a couple of sub contractors not including the chat girls. That's it.

Our website does not bullshit. http://www.2much.net describes LiveCamNetwork a TOOL and not a Business or Franchise. Our FAQ says you are not guaranteed to make money. Our Screenshots of your CCBill account tell your real story.



No Leon, I blame you for everything YOU did wrong.



The only time your site was "broken" was when you broke your own HTML code and images would not load. We are not responsible when you break your own site (but we helped you to fix it each time anyway)


It is your own responsibility to hire your own chat models and place them on your site. If you wanted to use girls from Mbase all you had to do was enable them which you rarely did. (And yes before you ask, I have screenshots to prove this too).

Why is it anyone elses responsibility to place models on to your website! As I pointed out to you earlier in this thread, you had 121 chat models working for you. Why didn't you take the time to call any of them and ask them to log in?


Many of your chargebacks were FRAUD, Leon, FRAUD. I already pointed this out to you in one of the first posts. Someone was using stolen credit cards, which Our System Caught For You, and voided! Others were caught from your own partner, Janet. You really need to stop deflecting the truth away from you and start understanding this.


Maybe your Alexa score was higher than LiveCamNetwork.com (I would have to check), but your site still had low sales and high fraud.

Your site had little traffic, and most of it was bad. Your site was not a success as far as your sales go. I already posted a screenshot of your sales. Here it is again to help you remember.

http://www.2much.net/gfy/ccbill.jpg


Have a nice weekend.

And you have proven that you are a liar, thief, scam artist, and are not qualified to pass yourself off as any type of expert in running a webcam site, and have no business offering your "solution" for sale to anyone, as it will ensure that whoever buys it will fail. You should stick to running your own studio and cam site, and stop charging unsuspecting webmasters exorbitant fees to make them think they are actually running their own site, when in effect they are working for you and unknowingly promoting your site through the models that they recruited. I am saving the best for last Mark, I haven't yet posted anything about what our models had to deal with and how you tried to make them think they work for you and not us. There are still many things I have left out deliberately, because I know you will keep coming up with your BS screenshots, burrying yourself deeper and deeper in the whole. Trust me, I would quit while you're ahead before I bring the models here to give their story as well as to what goes on in your studio.


Hahahaha! Why don't you show any post from other webmasters trying to trade models and content like you claim on your site. Your forum is only there for one reason, to promote you and your website, nothing more.

I know that, Mark, because a mega corporation would never run their business like you do, and blatantly rip people off. They would be sued and put out of business. Being small doesn't give you the right to make false claims, and take people's money without regard to the consequences of your actions. You, Mark, have cost me a year of my time, over $16,000 of money lost in BS fees, a loss of over 100 models who have tried working on your system only to make no $ and quit, countless customers who came to my website only to find no models on or it not working the way it should. That's no joke, Mark, thanks to you I have to start over again from scratch, and write the past year off as a total loss. This is why I am here, Mark, no other reason.

Not that my personal financial statement tells any real story other than the miserable failure of your service, unless I can't read, GFY rules prohibit posting of personal information. You, Mark, have just violated that rule, and posted my personal financial data for the whole world to see. Once again, Mark, you showed no regard to anyone but your fucking self! I will leave it up to the admin whether or not to delete your post or ban you.

Hahahaha, thank you Mark, for admitting what you denied earlier, that you blame your customers for everything that you promised you'd deliver and didn't.

No, Mark, it was broken many many times, and the time you are referring to is your techs making changes to my site without me knowing anything about it, so when my designer went to update the site, he uploaded the last version that we had. Had you given me the courtesy and notified me that you are making changes on MY website, that would have never happened. BTW, thank you for charging me $85 to fix something you screwed up to begin with.

Hmm, that's not what the front page of your website www.2much.net says, it says that I can populate my website with live models "instantly". That's a long "instant", as I waited a whole year, and still couldn't put on more than 1 or 2 models. As for why I didn't ask my 121 models to work more, that's because they couldn't make any money on your network, Mark. Many worked for 12 hours only to make like $12. LOL, get real!

I was the only one who even recruited models for your network (I am sure we were your biggest if not the only recruiter of models), and 2 of my models were in your top 5 best performers. Even though you considered them top models, the most they ever made on your network was $1000 in a single month. Those same models are now making 3 to 4 times that. Also, Mark, I think that everyone should know that the couple of models you do have work on salary, not money they make from your site. If you ever stopped paying them salary, they would leave as fast as my models who made no money with you.

Still waiting for the success stories, Mark, instead of more screenshots, why don't you do something constructive, and post a URL of a successful cam site on your network. I'd love to see that one! Wouldn't you want your prospective customers to know who they will be sharing their models with? :)

Last year they did have a lot of models in the evening time over 15, now I dont know if there was there models direct, cause other sites can lend there models out. All I know they triple billed my credit card, when i had cbill cancel the mess. Also they keep sending me a bill after I sent a email to cancel services with them. Its alot now, I dont even open the emails up any more. Its best to use a white label from the big boys

From the opinion of a non vested 3rd party looking at both sides. If the #1 reason you bought his software was so you could tap in to the "other chathost" on the network, then you are an IDIOT for no monitoring his network for at least a couple weeks to see how many girls typically go online on average before buying the license. It sounds like they have the same amount on now as they did before you purchased and you even said so much yourself that you have never seen more than 5 online.

Ok, so chalk it up to not doing your homework and making sure you are buying exactly what you want.... Once you were set up with them and you noticed there wasn't that many chathost online why didn't you ask for a refund right away?

If 2much has 50 girls online when you bought, and your "#1 reason for buying" was because you couldn't get your own chathost so you wanted to use the ones from the network, and then it suddenly dropped to 5 girls online. Then you would have at least a little cause to bitch, but you would still be wrong since they didn't make any guarantees and that feature is optional. But that wasn't the case anyway.

So to sum this up... The #1 reason you bought the software was so you could access their chathost, you never checked before hand to see it was only 5 and not nearly as much as you wanted. After you got set up you then noticed there was never more than 5 on and instead of asking for a refund right away you wait a year to bitch about it after you get asked to get your own merchant account because you have an amazing high charge back rate....

explain how what I said above is wrong. Everything else aside, you think they charge too much, don't like their templates, etc... all that aside, answer my questions if what I said above is correct?

For many people, in many cases this is true. If you can't get your own chathost, the last thing I would do is spend a lot of money to rely on someone else to get them for me with no guarantees, but that falls on the shoulders of the people buying not the company providing. If they guaranteed you there would be "x" amount of chat host on then it would be on them. With out a guarantee then you have to take a chance, if you can't get your own chathost. Can't get your own chat host, and don't use your own processor, why in the hell pay the money for all that stuff when you could be an affiliate with a white label..... <--- not the software owners fault, its 100% on the buyer.

I've been looking at LCN for a few years, they did have quite a few girls on their network back in 2004/2005 but for whatever reason they've gone. I like the software and have been very tempted to purchase it. What's stopped me is that I'd be 100% reliant on 2much continuing to exist, anything could happen, and KAPUT you're screwed. I'm not particularly interested in pluggin into other chat hosts just something LIKE what 2 much offers that I can host on my own server and works with ccbill like a dream ! Is there such an alternative ?

Hi UKVixens,

This is 100% Correct. If we were to close our doors, your site would be gone too. This is a real risk.

There are several alternatives out there for you to choose from and each of them has their own pluses and weaknesses. The best way to shop for anything is to make your own comparison list of features / services / etc between each company.

On MBASE:

The last couple of posts are about our Mbase system and the Number of Models we have in our network. Instead of quoting again and pulling apart everything that PornSiteNewbie said, I'll address it this way.

We do not guarantee which chat hosts are available to any website at any time. There are several reasons for this, including:

- We cannot dictate to any site owner the schedule of his own models.

- Each site owner can share or unshare their own chat models to the network at any time

- Each Site owner can charge anything to the network they like, and change their prices at any time. Each site can also set the "Maximum Purchase Price". So for example, if Website "A" raises their prices for their own chat models higher than Website "B"'s Max Purchase Price, then the chat hosts of website "A" no longer appears as content on Website "B".

The above system is completely fair because it lets each webmaster set all of their own prices.

Not taking sides, but I have read ********** posts in the past...and he has explained many time that he offers a "Live cams solution" and that is what he delivered to you. Like with any business you also need to work to make it a success. I bet getting cam girls to work for you is not easy. So white label's are the way to go in my opinion.

pornsitenewbie is just pissed that the solution did not work for him, and he feels he wasted his time and money.

I have close to 50 white labels, but I am very, very happy making money with niche cams at the moment...see my sig. for more info. :thumbsup

I do think you offer the best solution, the one thing that's a big no no for me is the 100% reliance. I don't put my blogs on Thumblogger for the same reason and I'm not spending $4,000 either. A side issue, are the prices you quote on your site US$ or CN$ ?

Any chance in selling your software instead of just licensing it, or provide the software's source code to the licensee's if you were to ever decide to stop supporting it or go out of business?

I know you addressed the first one, why you license vs selling it. What about some type of hybrid, "sell it" but make them colo a box with you, and it is setup to your requirements, and your techs get paid per hour if they need to go in and clean up someone else's mess.

Hi Will76,

In the past we used to allow our customers to host it on any servers they wanted to, but it was a technical support nightmare, and "passing the buck" when a problem was found to be outside of our scope of control was never appreciated either.

In 2004 we decided that this was simply too expensive and decided to do all of our own hosting for our clients. This saved alot of money and created new revenue for us as well.

We have no plans to change this in the near future, however the topic comes up once in a while. Never say never.

Well, really there were 2 reasons I bought their license, one was being able to have instant models on my site when I first start out without any models. If I didn't have that essential component, how could I ever recruit models? No model wants to work for a site with no models or be a first guinea pig. The second reason was at the time, Mark did have a pretty impressive video chat client, which had video and audio quality that I haven't seen anywhere else. Both of those 2 factors made me buy his license. As for why I didn't question him only having a couple of models live on his site at the time is he told me on the phone, that there are a lot more models on his network, and all I would have to do is enable them for my site. I figured with a great video chat system, I could stand apart from the rest.

Well, look at the current video system at www.livecamnetwork.com if anyone's live at this moment. Click on the Free Chat button for the model that's live. Now tell me if the video chat client looks even remotely close to on any other cam site in terms of video quality, and the layout of the client itself. To me, it looks totally amateur, with no links anywhere on the chat page to go back, see other models live (lol), go back to the previous page, etc.. This was totally not the case when I first bought their license, it used to look better than most cam sites, and I would say the video was much more superior. I was not asked if I wanted this "upgrade" from the previous system, or given any choice whatsoever. I had to take what I was given, no questions asked. When I brought up the fact that I didn't like how the new chat client looked, or that the video was much worse, I was brushed off saying that it's much better (yeah right)! So the main reason I feel cheated is because I got neither of the 2 things that I paid for, and this was the main reason I decided to leave. The other reasons I already mentioned earlier in this thread, so I won't repeat them again. The funny thing is, I would have left as quietly as PastorSinAlot, and just admitted defeat, if Mark didn't try to recruit my models and hold over $10,000 of my money. It would have been that easy for Mark to keep doing business as usual to the next newbie that came along.

Ahhhhhh that's the BS reply that just made pornnewbie's case for him !

Hi again.

Why is this a BS reply? All I am saying that we currently host everything on our own servers, and may in the future, allow customers to host it on theirs. How is this a BS reply?

LOL I can read people like no other, including their text, and the speed of your response just validates it :)

The speed of my response is become I'm sitting here working on a Saturday night and refreshing this thread about once a minute or so because I can see that you're online too.

So again, why is this a BS response? All I am saying is that at the time, it was expensive for us to support clients who were hosted on other servers.

For example: If a customer would complain about poor speed, we could log in to check things out. If the problem was with our software, then we could fix it of course as per our service level agreement. However if the problem was due to a slow server, congested router, or other things at the operating system level for example, we had to ask our customer to call his hosting provider for support as some things were simply not fixable by us, or were beyond the scope of our service agreement with our customers (and instead were under the agreement of that hosting company). Many customers did not like this, or understand why we would only support our software and nothing else.

Our current system has dependencies such as Redhat Enterprise 5x, MySQL, and Wowsa. If our customers wanted to host this with their own ISP's, they would also be responsible for the licensing which that hosting provider may charge them for (or perhaps they would have to buy direct). This by itself may may it more complex for some customers (especially newbies) to manage.

I hope this better answers your question.

"This by itself may may it more complex for some customers (especially newbies) to manage"

ooh bitchy, you didn't answer my question about US$ or CN$

Sorry, I didn't think I was being bitchy. (In fact, I'm in a great mood! This thread has generated lots of new contacts lately..)

Alot of us here have servers all over the place and are used to managing them via Cpanel, Telnet, whatever. "Newbies" can be new to adult, and can also be new to this as well.

When a customer is trying to run his website, the only thing he should be concentrating on, is that. Hosting, Operating Envrionments, server dependencies, routers etc, should not be his concern.

By hosting our customer's licenses for them, we make ourselves 100% responsible for our software AND the quality of service. We own all of our own servers and do all of the maintenance on them. So as an example, if a client calls to complain about an issue, we can fix it regardless of whether or not its a software bug, or a server / hosting / switching / routing issue. This guarantees all problems are fixed very quickly, without the customer having to call multiple providers.

And sorry I missed your question earlier. We charge in US Dollars. We also payout in US Dollars.

PornSiteNewbie, the quality of the video is only as good as its source. A girl using a good quality camera and fast computer will produce a better image like we say in the screenshot below:

http://www.2much.net/gfy/ivy-screenshot.jpg

The amount of Light also makes a big difference. Ivy has lot of light in her room.

A girl using a little webcam with a small iris and slower computer will upload poorer quality video, such as the girl in this screenshot:

http://www.2much.net/gfy/cwaters-screenshot.jpg

Hints, tips and tricks on how to improve image quality Leon is on our website, on our forum, and shown to all of the girls we hire. It is not rocket science. Any photographer will tell you that good light is essential. Anyone working in digital video will tell you that bandwidth and speed is essential (and selectable with our software). Ivy's video is better because her camera is better and she selected "Wide Screen" mode + High Bitrate. It is very simple.

So you admit you should have checked to see "HOW MANY" girls where on the network to make sure it meet what you thought was a good enough amount, but you didn't. So basically you saying you failed because they upgraded the video software and you didn't think it was as nice as the previous version. Not due to the fact you didn't have much traffic, that you had tons of fraud and was having to get your own merchant account, couldn't recruit your own chathost etc... you failed using their product because you didn't think the software was as nice as the previous version.... :helpme Mark even explained how you could adjust the video settings, but it was limited to the chathost's internet connection. Jesus I know more about their system than you do and I never been to their site before reading this thread.

Mark, I read that the first time you posted it. So you wouldn't even consider it if the server was located with your servers, had the same OS, everything set up the same exact way as if it was on your server, and an understanding that "fixes" would be billed at "x" amount per hour. That would fix all of your previous issues such as the clients BW being bad, different OS, etc... It would be identical to one of your own servers, colocated next to your servers.

The other part of the question was, if you still wouldn't do what I mentioned above will you put a copy of the code in a trusted 3rd party's hands, or some where that your clients could get access to it to keep their business going if something was to happen to your company. I think NATS does something like this.


If I can't own it, or at least be assured that I could get my hands on it if something happened to you, then I (personally) wouldn't want to pay a decent amount of money to take a risk on what happens to you in the future.

you never know, if the Crips move up to Canada, traffic might send them after you too.

If my server was located right next to your server, and all of the dependencies were the same, OS the same, the server had the hardware as good or as better as the ones you use, there would be no bw issues since it was on the same network, the only wild card would be if the client broke something. If they did you bill them per hour to fix it, there would be no other way to pass the buck.

I'm not harping on this to bust your balls, but if you offered an option like this I would be interested in finding out more.

No, what I am saying is that once Mark had my money, and the money of all his other customers whom I've yet to even see, he could care less about doing anything but making his own site better. He did absolutely nothing to try to improve his model network by getting more models online during the time I was there, and he actually made the video product much worse. The video and color quality is nowhere near what they used to be, fine print or not. Look at how ugly and amateur that chat client looks, Will? Have you ever seen anything that bad on any other cam site? It looks like it's still in beta testing if not alpha. I failed because I was lied to and stuck with a system that only benefitted it's owner, noone else! Especially for the amount of money I paid. Ever hear of bait and switch, Will? I would say more than 60% of my business wasn't from my own site, it was from recruiting models for Mark's network which I believed had actual sites besides his. Remember, these were all factors I was considering before signing up, so chargebacks of $400 had absolutely nothing to do with me wanting to leave. As for traffic, I had more traffic than Mark, just less regular customers who wouldn't stay once they saw my empty site. Will, ask yourself this question as a webcam consultant of 10+ years, knowing what you learned here about LCN, would you recommend them to anyone? Come on, please be honest...

I don't agree with the vast majority of what you posted here and I can tell you this much if you consulted with me prior to getting set up with 2much you very likely wouldn't be in the situation you are now. While I couldn't help with chargebacks much as that is a result of where ever you are getting your traffic from and how the billing companies (ccbill in this case) handle fraud, I could have helped you in a lot of other ways. I would have made sure you were aware of how many models they have on your network, exactly how their system works. I still don't think you understand 1/2 of how it works because you are wrong in a lot of the things you are trying to argue here. Obviously you didn't get it or never bothered to, I would have made sure you got it, the risks, etc...

A white label is definetly the best option for you, but can't compare a white label vs a live cam software solution. apples and oranges.

I would likely use Mark's software if I had more control over the programming or if I was guaranteed to have the source code if they stopped supporting it. I wouldn't recommend using it if you were relying on them for chathost, I also personally would get my own merchant account. The only thing I would want to rely on someone else for is the software, which if I had access to the code there would be no riskes involved.

I don't think Mark did anything wrong here from everything I have read. I would recommend someone using his system if they don't want to spend big bucks creating their own live cam solution, if they had their own chathosts, and with their own merchant account. All things his solution allows you to do. The chathost on LCN's network should be a suppliment, or bonus in addition to the ones that you would bring on board. If you can't get chathosts then there is no point paying for software, just do a white label.

I like the concept of sharing chathosts, which can work both ways for you. If you don't have traffic but you have chathost you can still make money in his system. If you don't have chathost but you have traffic you can still make money in his system. The concept is great as you need both traffic and chathost at the same time to launch a site, something that is very hard to do so his network gives you a little extra help than if you were on your own. But if you don't have your own chathost you are basically an affiliate that paid a decent amount of money for software, when you could have just got a white label with another company.

Hi Will,

Of course this would be possible. However there are still a number of concerns that would need to be addressed. What would our responsibilities for support be? How much would it cost us? Who is responsible when an OS upgrade occurs which creates a compatibility issue? Can we charge our clients extra for this? Should we? And would customers be willing to pay for this? "Technical" is one thing. "Policies", legal issues, how it affects our business model etc are all quite different.

PornSiteNewbie:


You are wrong, Leon. It is in our best interests to help you with all aspects of your business because We make more money after the sale. The more chat hosts you have on your site, the more chat host streams we have to sell. The more we have, the more you have. The more our customers have, the more everyone has.



You are wrong, Leon. We advertise in a local newspaper here in Montreal to hire new chat models all the time.

Here is our newest girl:
http://www.livecamnetwork.com/fl/85.jpg
Natalia, available via Mbase. Hired this summer.

Here is another:
http://www.livecamnetwork.com/fl/75.jpg
Sophie, available via Mbase: Hired in September.

Here is another:
http://www.livecamnetwork.com/fl/79.jpg
Kedra, available on mbase. Found us from Webdreams. :)

As a side note Leon, we "feature" the actual girls who work for us, by way of large rotaing pictures or banners on the front page of our site.

Anyone who knows anything about traffic conversion will tell you that you cannot promise one thing, and sell another. We place large pictures of our own girls on our site BECAUSE they log in often and chat. They are the "Real" girls of LiveCamNetwork. They are not fake models.

Your site on the other hand, pictured fake models. You promised one thing, and delivered another.


Please scroll up and see the screenshots I posted a couple of hours ago, and read what I said again regarding this issue. There is no fine print. The system is much better than it used to be because it is now compatible with various browsers and requires no .exe to run. Ask anyone here about the benefits of using Flash over Windows Media. And Leon as I already told you, if a chat model had bad image quality, all she had to do was to select a higher quality mode, or maybe upgrade her camera.


I'm sorry if you do not like how it looks.

Thank you very much, Will. This sums up perfectly what LiveCamNetwork's MBASE system tries to do.

What I think I will do though is to place a note on our mbase description page that explains that each chat site's participation in mbase is OPTIONAL and therefore the number of available chat models is not guaranteed. This is explained already in emails and phone calls but after this thread, I think it would be a good thing to add.

Cheers!!! :)

Will, I never said I didn't make any mistakes, and I feel my 2 biggest mistakes were choosing 2Much to begin with, and not leaving sooner. This is a warning thread, remember. I am warning everyone reading this that if you go with Mark's solution, you will get:

- A substandard product that will make your site look amateur, no matter how much traffic and models you have.

- You will not be able to share models (yes the concept is great, but unfortunately it's only a concept) because there would be noone to share them with that has any real traffic.

- There won't be enough models for you to use on your site if you don't have enough models yourself.

- When you give it your all for one year realizing there is no way to get ahead using this system, Mark will keep all your money, your customers, all software, and recruit your models for himself.

This is all I am saying, Will! I know I was wrong picking this solution to begin with.

Even if Mark improves his system, you need to know about how he does business, as having trust in your software partner is very important when choosing a solution. The fact that Mark tried to recruit my models tells you a lot about his character, apology or not. He only apologized because he got caught! The $400 chargebacks is only an excuse for him to keep $10,000 of mine, nothing more. The check he bounced to me for $1,700 is business as usual for Mark, he bounces checks on his models all the time. Read this thread, I am not the only person who came out publically to say I was duped.

The ultimate proof of my case is in the lack of even a single cam site that uses 2Much software that looks even remotely successful or like it was designed after the year 2000.

Im not going to bother with this pissing match anymore, however I will take one thing to task.
"No, what I am saying is that once Mark had my money, and the money of all his other customers whom I've yet to even see, he could care less about doing anything but making his own site better"

Just want to mention Mark let me and my crew use his whole studio for six hours on Friday and gave us complete run of the place to shoot a project we are working on at no charge.
Pics and thanks will be in another thread Monday.
All he would accept at the end of the day was a cold well deserved beer.
And yes for the two or three people on this board who do not know I would consider Mark a friend.
However we always keep business strictly business and I am very happy with Mark 2much and the whole package.
If I was not friend or not I would never back his product if I did not like it.
Anyways that's my two cents do what you want with it I really don't fucking care.
Spend some time working on your product instead of being a one man side show here and you might just maybe but some money in your pocket one day.
Im done with thread......

So you bought the wrong thing and then waited a year to change it and bitch, because it wasn't what you wanted.


He bounces checks all the time to his models ? You've made some bold accusationg in this thread about him being a thief, etc... Would like to see your proof where he bounces checks to his models all the time. If thats the case I would never use them, can you provide proof to back that up or is that just more smear campaign from you because you are mad at him ?

I've been following LCN for years. I know several people that have paid for licenses and made nothing and ended up paying a lot more than they expected for the service. Jean-Francois, please post a follow-up about how your experience is with LCN in say 6 months. Will be interesting.

I bought a license from them once..

The "Look and Feel" of each website is completely up to the webmaster. You can customize the look and feel to look any way that you like. Here are a few examples:

http://www.2much.net/gfy/site-samples.jpg

1 of these is an original design by our designer. The middle one is my own personal design which I like, but you call amateur (Sorry! I still like it). The 3rd is a "skin job" where we took graphics from an existing site and applied it to his new cam site. Each of these took only a few hours to do. If you paid $4000 to your webmaster to do your site, he is the one you should be mad at.



This is... True! Unfortunately very few customers of ours have good quality traffic. We are trying to encourage them to to find traffic any way that they can. We do go 1 step further though and look for traffic sources for them (Including inviting bids here at GFY). We also place banners inside our own news area for traffic companies once in a while. As I mentioned eralier, alot of our customers are newbies and unfortunately think that all they need to make a million dollars is to own a website.


This is also true. Mbase provided SOME models to you, and again it all depended on how much other sites were charging, and how much you were willing to pay for those models. You had the chance to Network with those customers and try to make deals. You never did this. You also had 121 of your own chat models which you never contacted and ecouraged to chat. You never provided them with any support, showed them how to read their stats, established a community for them, nothing at all. It's no wonder your chat models never logged on.


No Leon, you are wrong. You still own the license. This is your license to start again, or to re-sell, or to give away if you want to. How much you sell it for is completely up to you. This is the exit strategy I was trying to tell you about. If you had contacted us first without acting the way you did this entire situation need not have taken place.


Your Check, Leon, did not bounce. As I already told you both in this thread and by email, we put a Stop Payment on your check because you were in breach of contract. Here again is another screenshot:


http://www.2much.net/gfy/stop-payment.jpg



I think it is time that we ended this thread as I don't think I will be posting in it any longer. I have shown that :

• - You did not know what you were doing.
• - You violated the Terms of Service
• - You were in breech of contract
• - Your paid your own webmaster for a site design ($4000!) that you did not like
• - You had poor quality traffic
• - Your own girls did not log in.
• - You had lots of fraud (and failed to act on it)
• - You prevented your own customers from getting what they paid for and made a bad situation worse.
• - You ignored instructions and advice
• - Etc.
• - You lied constantly throughout this thread to me and to everyone else reading this.
• - You failed to acknowedge you were wrong after seeing any of the screenshots I have posted.
• - You tried to bring this drama to a customer forum (and lied about doing that too)

In this same thread, we shown you via the magic of screenshots that:

• - Announcements were made about version 3 in advance of the upgrade.
• - Your site was never down during the upgrade. (You lied and said it was down for a week)
  
• - Image quality is selectable (Video Size Settings) (You lied and said everyone had bad quality)
  
• - The accounting system lets you choose to payout to your models on fraud. (You said you chose to ignore this feature because "they worked anyway" - sorry - your business decision, not ours). Our software gives you the power to make this decision of course but its not something I would recommend to clients.
  
• - That all customer information including Real Names, IP Addresses, CCBill Transaction #'s etc are readily available to you. You lied and said this was nowhere to be found.
  
• - Potential Suspect transactions are flagged
• - That you had massive fraud on your own site. (And that you made it even worse)
• - That you had only 1 performer who knew what she was doing (The rest were boring).
• - That there IS a forum for users (You lied and said there was none).
  
• - Etc ETc...

I sincerely hope that you learn to pay more attention to your business in the future. If you fail at your next venture, blame your providers and lie endlessly like you are doing here, you may find yourself in court. Good luck to you.