This looks like one of those deals where they only like to deal with REAL business people. You should find a company that gives shit away for free. Sadly, Geocities is no more ;(

Oh Mark, and interesting that you mention in your post how the former customer in the YNOT post was also ignorant, and didn't understand your system, and wasn't a real businessman. Yeah, it was all his fault, and you won your libel lawsuit (LOL, I'd love to see proof of that right here), but just like in this thread, he wasn't the only one who got scammed by you.

Others came forward, just like they did here. Just look at one of those posts by user Shellee here. It must be nice to use bullying tactics and friends who are not even customers to come forward and defend you, but luckily I am a man of principle, and have a nice enough budget to see that this is handled properly, and I won't stop until it is.

Here is a post by AlexMerchant from that YNOT thread which sums it all up, sorry I have to quote it:

Taken from Ynot Thread About 2Much Bottom Of Page 4:

FYI, this poster's reference to "Hammer" is for one of Mark's friends who was trying to defend his shady business practices. I couldn't have said it better myself, and keep in mind this was said back in 2007.

[Start Of Quote]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Prince,

2Much? Yes indeed. To much bullshit.

If your product/service was worth what you are charging, anyone/everyone would be able to make money from it, thereby making you money off of their labor and efforts.

The fact that you have to have some massively convoluted, confusing billing/charge, over-charge, up-front fee, back-charge, overage/usage, upgrade-fee, surcharge, future-charge, support-charge, fuck-customers-up-the-ass-charge would indicate that you are not selling shit, except for the shit you are selling. Reminds me of a "Hammer" type shyster bullshit relationship. (See the smiley emoticons you asshat? Those apparently mean something to you.)

This is a case where someone should have bought a fucking $35 webcam, filmed some adult entertainment, used CCBill and made some extra cash. I don't know how many times I can state that people do NOT need asswipes like this company, "exotic practices in billing/hosting/providers/support" from other companies that sell content/web-cam-content-uploads-upgrades-or shit that is over-produced/over-marketed/generic" and has been "Hammered" to fucking redundant/spam regurgitated-boring fucking death".

The fact that so many support this insanity is evidence of the shrinking of the size of balls, backbone, spine's, courage, gumption, innovation, and ideas of males across the globe. I mean lets be brutal/crass like most men in a locker room with jock-strap sans pants are, guys will pay for the sight of naked women. (Gay guys will pay for sightings of other gay guys as well.) It's not that fucking complicated.

If some company makes their money off of obscure and convoluted billing practices that are based on everything BUT the actual content they provide, AVOID them like a nail avoids a fucking crooked, unscrupulous, dickless and powerless "Hammer".

Sex sells. Period. One way or the other. It always has, it always will. One way or the other. Period.
People get so caught up in the conartists (like Hammer) that they forget that what sells is this content, the vagina, the dick, the act, the pussy, the deed, the raw, unadulterated porn.
You don't need a wimpy third party spineless "agent" or broker, or webmaster who does not have the looks, the dick, the balls, the backbone (like Hammer and others) to make the actual content and sell the actual "business".

Stop wasting your money and your time with the "shyster salesmen" of this business. Go to the source of what people are willing to pay for. Go "Hammerless". (Notice the smiley face again hammer-not worth of a capital schmuck? That makes it all better (according to you) so you won't start crying to the mods and pissing in your little boy-dick pants again.)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[End Of Quote]

Not a nice gesture out of you to contact the model that is working on his site. Sure, you did apology for that, but what if the model came and work for you instead of contacting him?

I don't know about the rest of the story in this thread and i do not want to interfere, but this thing regarding the models does not sound too good to me.

I hope you'll both figure it out in the end and that none of you ends up losing anything after this. :2 cents:

haha, exactly... i have been checking it out :)

Use his product and get over charged like I did. They will fee beat you to death

My 2 Cents
 

My story is quite different, but still has an unfortunate ending. I won't cast aspersions around about LCN or Mark Prince, but I will say I am terribly disappointed in him and his program. Almost everything negative said by pornsiteNewbie has an element of credibility.

I have know Mark for eight years, six as a chatter on his site and the last two as a site owner. I have severed my connections with him this date.

The purpose of this post is to find out how many people have been dissatisfied with the 2Much/Mark Prince experience From my experience this number should be rather extensive. If the number of people is as big as I expect perhaps we can find a way to solidify our forces so newbies in the field are made aware of possible pitfalls of working in this field.

Again, this is not a slam on Mark or LCN. If anyone is interested in my experiences just write me. Mark, there is nothing here for you to try to defend so don't load the board with your talking points.

ty all

Steve

btw, Media Guy, aka Greg, is great

Ive known Mark for several years and Im also an a enterprise licensee and theres probably a post in this thread by me pissing on him and his product.

However a little over a year ago I tried the system out for myself and while I will agree that there is room for improvement [as there is with all systems] I can honestly say that this is THE BEST turnkey system for cams on the market.

I recognize your name from the chat rooms while you might not recognize me but you always seemed pretty happy online in the girls rooms.

And Greg and Mark have always been very helpful from my experience too.

Have not seen you around for a while my friend. How about an update!!

Steve (aka Punchcard)

PunchCard Da MAN!
Not much of an update as Ive not done much work with my license.
Between 8 hours or more dedicated to my main client as it has been for the past 7 years plus working with 9 new paysites the cams took a backseat.

I cant piss on Mark because I havent put in the time or effort to give it a fair shake.

Sorry to see you guys couldnt work it out. Cams are very competitive these days between finding customers and keeping the girls... major full time job.

It is unfortunate that our dealings with Punchard / Steve had to come to an end, but unfortunate irreconcilable differences have made it necessary.

We do our very best to support all of our customers to the best of our abilities. This includes many hours of consultation, screenshots, Google Analytic stats, CCBill and segpay transactions, detailed accounting, etc. However when a customer fails to follow recommendations by not only us but by others including our friend Gonzo, there is really not much else we can do.

Since you have chosen to bring this out intp the court of public opinion Punchcard, I ask that you give me permission to post all of the following:

- Suggestions by us that you fire the models who were discouraging customers from spending money by refusing to talk to or even address them.

- Screenshots of stats showing your extremely poor conversion rate (10,000:1)

- Proof via chat logs and "account adjustments" that you and your models successfully stole customers from us by encouraging them to switch to your website along with cash incentives.

- Chat logs of one of your models attempting to steal customers from us and from our other website owners.

- Chat logs between you and your model encouraging her to do it.

- The many posts from Tracy who spent hours explaining to you how you were paying your models incorrectly

- Allowing your models to continuously trash KEDRA and artificially push her ranking down while allowing your own models to increase their own rank in a weak attempt to gather more customers.

- Allowing your model to lie to Kedra about it, when Kedra did nothing but provide lots of support to you and to your model(s).

- The main posts of Tracy explaining how CCBill and Segpay works, including chargebacks, holdbacks, payout dates, credit card policies, and more.

(Everything is logged, Steve, everything).

Since you have chosen to post your grievances about is in this thread, I will assume that you know that we have the logs and screenshots to backup what we say. If you really want to discuss this here, I am fully prepared to meet you head on.

@ 'pornsitenewbie':

Did you ever receive any of the 'reserve' money returned to you?

For what it's worth, after reading this now aging thread -- and reading between the lines, thank you for taking the time to patiently and thoroughly explain the details of what happened so others out there can be informed and make their own decisions. I disagree with other posts trying to spin this into being positive advertising for the company. Quite the contrary.,,

Peace.

Mark, you always miss the point. I did not post here to question how you treated me during the past two years. That will become obvious at the appropriate time. I won't continue a flame war on this thread. I posted to find out if anyone else, and I will bet you there are many, people have had similar experiences.

try to refrain from defending yourself, and maybe listen to some of the comments that may be made about you and your business practices.Perhaps you will learn something you can incorporate to deal more constructively with people in the future. If nobody responds to this thread, it will be a testament that perhaps you are a terriffic guy with a wonderful business model, but I am betting otherwise.

I will not make this into a flame war

Let's be clear. You have been an end-user / consumer of ours for about 8 years and until Feb 13th 2011, we kept you (and many others) as a good, happy, perhaps loyal, end user / consumer. On June 4 2009 decided that you wanted to purchase a special Rev-Share license of LiveCamNetwork. We have never met in person.

If you are going to bring issues out into the public concerning me or my company, then I will definitely read what you have to say and clarify our points and defend our position. Do not expect otherwise. If you've got something to say, please say it.

Dealing with the same Cam girls day in and day out must really suck!!


I shoot them once and get them out. Cam girls/pornstars are like fish; both will stink up a place after 3 days.

Very informative thread.

Good luck guys.

I am posting this for clarification. I had a license that would normally expire on 6-1-11. On 2-18-11, you sent me an email saying you were severing all ties between us. Now, today I find that the homepage for my sub domain redirects to LCN. Mark, since you have officially in writing stated our business relationship ended as of yesterday, I don?t believe you have the right to redirect my traffic. The customers I built up are a reflection of the hard work I accomplished for the past 18 months. I think you are guilty of what you so foolishly accused me off ,stealing customers. I would ask you to delete my site entirely , and not to continue redirecting my customers unknowingly to LCN They belong to me as a result of my advertising.

If this breach is not corrected immediately, I will delete the site entirely on my own end or perhaps direct it somewhere else.

You are a piece of work!

bump for clarification by LCN

I would like clarification too from LCN on this issue. What gives you the right to "hack" into my server and redirect my site to LCN after you disabled my site?


I had my tech guy look into this , and here is his response:

Hi Steve
I think this is what has happened. He has deleted the entire folder from your server. I can not locate cam.livecollegecamgirls.com or whatever it was called. I have removed (password change) the ftp account also so shouldn?t get there again now. What a nightmare, almost childish, but glad I am out of it!

This is just another example, amongst many that I will post at the appropriate time, of how this "man" operates.

Here is the thing Mark. Most of the people who buy into your system are new to the adult industry so you have an advantage using your convoluted logic. The difference now is that you will have to demonstrate to people with equal or more knowledge than you how this or any other transgression I will eventually post is "kosher" in the adult industry.

So, please explain what gives you the right to redirect my site to LCN after you disabled it and when you are holding all the money owed me in some type "escrow account" against what you allude to as protection from future chargebacks.
:mad:

In my book this is an unethical business situation
guess i`m not the only one who just dropped all the aff links from lcncash
i wish you good luck with your website pornsitenewbie

Steve / Fottage,

No Steve, this is not correct. Your account has been suspend, not "hacked".

On February 16th 2011 at 10:06pm, I sent you an email (which was CC'ed to our lawyer, Ken Zigby) notifying you that your website was in violation of our Terms of Service and Acceptable Use policies because you were directing your traffic away from the services that your customers paid for, and asked you to correct the problem within 12 hours to avoid chargebacks. Our policy on this matter (available to you via your administrator program) is very clear:

• [I]
• 6.06 Maintain DNS and connectivity:
  
• 6.06.01 In the event that the Licensee makes use of Licensor's billing sub-account facility, Licensee shall always maintain its domain name pointed to the domain name server (or "D.N.S.") as specifically designated by Licensor, and shall maintain connection to LCN Servers, chat model "broadcasters" and shall not redirect, point "traffic", switch or point its domain to any other domain name server unless Licensor has provided prior written authorization to do so; failure to respect this provision will cause Licensee to be liable for all damages, fines and liabilities caused by this default.

Even though this was your 4th serious violation of our Terms of Service / AUP, service to your site, we re-enabled your account when you fixed the problem.

On February 19th 2011 at 1:31 am, after we decided not to promote one of your chat models on our website (due to the other 3 AUP violations regarding attempted theft of customers and breach of trust) you sent a particularly nasty email to me notifying me that our business was done, and you had once again directed traffic to a different service thereby preventing your customers (on our CCBill account) from accessing what they paid for, making this the 5th and final AUP violation.

One more thing:

This use of our CCBill account (Sub account) is an optional service available to all site owners. Because we take the potential of chargebacks seriously and because we value our relationship with CCBill, Segpay and others tremendously, we want to make sure that these accounts are not being misused. Each site owner is more than welcome to obtain and use their own billing accounts which Steve / Fottage was encouraged to do many times as early as a year ago. Had he obtained his own account, this 4th violation would have been any issue at all.

Uh... ask CCBill, Epoch, WTS, SegPay, etc. etc. why they're holding back moneys. Ask VISA and MasterCard. We're not holding back, the processor is. We don't pay what we don't have, you get paid when they pay out...

It's not "some type 'escrow account'". Any third-party processor (such as CCBill etc.) holds back a percentage against what THEY "allude to as protection from future chargebacks".

And most of us who use these services appreciate and understand these actions, because, regardless of credit-card company policies such as the 1% rule, charge-backs hurt our businesses in the short AND long term...

.

Give me a few minutes while I put together my response

Steve / Fottage,

First, nice bump..!

And second, look: We realize that you are upset but it isn't like we didn't warn you it was going to happen. We all think you're a good person and I'm fairly sure you meant no bad intention. What I would suggest we do is that we setup a conference call today between you, me and Greg. We will explain our position on the matter and then show you how it can all be easily resolved.

just pay our "easy resolution fee" and you are good to go ? right ? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

There were never any violations regarding TOS. On 2-14-11.I kept the original Domain name pointed to you as you requested. I was under the impression that as long as I did not officially change my Domain name and point elsewhere, I was not in violation, hence why my site has .net not .com. A few days later, and I will post all this shortly, I get a TOS violation email with a cc to your attorney accusing me of all types of heinous violations. I explained I misunderstood that a redirect was the same as pointing elsewhere , and I gave you my FTP information to change it which you used to redirect my defunct site to LCN.

After I told you I would not renew my license with you due to the inability to make a profit in two years, you agreed and turned off my CCbill. Shortly thereafter you sent me the letter stating I was in violation of the TOS since I was redirecting to my new site. I informed you that if I was circumventing your TOS, I would immediately rectify the problem which I did. I don't believe the redirect was for more that one week.

You quickly notified me that I would need to keep CCbill enabled to avoid chargebacks,etc.You advised me that it was just a matter of activating my account with CCbill since you did not delete it. I told you to do so, and I also asked you to advise me of the cost.

You sent me the following email:

Re: *** IMPORTANT NOTICE ***
Wednesday, February 16, 2011 11:41 PM

From:

"Mark Prince" <.........................>View contact details

To:

"Stephen Davis" <........................>, "Kenneth ." <...................>


Steve:


On 11-02-17 2:20 AM, Stephen Davis wrote:

ME
> Mark, do what u want. I gave u notice and I told u I would keep my site pointed to u. I created another site not to take ur bloody chatters away, but to make money. If you want the site to be accessible , put back ccbill. I wont pay u 500.00 to install mine.

YOU
The problem is that your site is no longer pointing to our server. As I
told you earlier tonight, you are redirecting your traffic away. This
is the violation of the Terms of Service of both us and CCBill that I am
referring to.

If you want to use your own CCBill account, there will be a service fee
of $450.00 to install it. I told you this already. It is a price
announced as a part of our service. I will not do it for free. You
chose not to purchase this.

If you want to use our CCBill account I can re-enable it for you for
free. I already told you that it was not deleted, only disabled. All
you need to pay is the usual fees for using our account that you have
always been paying.

Another email followed:

Clear flag

LiveCollegeCamGirls.com
Thursday, February 17, 2011 9:32 AM

From:

"Mark Prince" <....................>

To:

"Stephen Davis" <......................>, "Kenneth ." <............................>, "Mediaguy" <..........................>



Steve,

Thank you for providing us with the password to your account so that we could point traffic from your domain, LiveCollegeCamGirls back to our servers. This move insures that customers who purchased time on your website can now get what they paid for. We have completed the work necessary and re-enabled mbase and the other accounts.

We will not renew your license in June when your current license expires. Therefore you must inform your customers of this and ask that they use up the time they purchase before this date. We will not write this for you but we encourage you to post your message in your private support forum before sending anything to your customers for our approval.

One thing you will be able to do is invite your customers to use their remaining time on Live Cam Network . com. We can transfer their accounts and balances to their accounts on LCN. This will reduce or prevent chargebacks and keep your costs and liabilities as low as possible.

Mark Prince

　
Since I was now back in your ?good graces? ,I had access to my backend and checked my account. For an action which you said was not too involved , reactivating CCbill, you charged me $195.00 even after you told me in the prior email this would be free. I just accepted this again as another way you do business , and decided to work with Greg to rectify any further problems. I told Greg that you told me I would need to keep pointed to you for six months after my last sale on ccbill. This seemed to be contradiction since the site was supposed to be closed effective 6-1-11. Nevertheless, I wanted to avoid further problems so I asked Greg to post the following disclaimer:

Live college Cam Girls' Cam Site, will close on 6-1-11.We are not taking any new purchases due to our imminent closure.

If you have purchased time to spend on the cam site and still have money left, you must use it by 6-1-11. If you would like a refund, please contact 2Much Internet at ########### for a refund

We are sorry for any inconvenience this action might have caused.

ty

　
Stephen P Davis

Greg said he would make a few changes and post it on my site.

The final straw came when even after trying to exit on ?good terms? you would not enable any of my models. I told Greg and this was corrected. Next you took all the models off entirely so my site consisted of nobody. Please remember that this was still during the period when my site was scheduled to end on 6-1-11 and you were still charging me fees for hosting etc. Again I told Greg ,who seemed surprised, and shortly thereafter all the models were returned. I had several models coming on that night, and I was surprised when I set their schedules they did not appear on LCN. At this point I was through with you and all your chicanery, and I sent you the following email. The letter you refer to is as follows:. I have taken out statements that don?t bear on the situation, but will post it in its entirety if needed:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++

Flag this message

Done
Friday, February 18, 2011 10:31 PM

From:

"Stephen Davis" <.......................>

To:

"Mark" <..................................>

Cc:

"Greg" <.................................>

I have had it with u mark. You are not worth the aggravation u have caused me. You shut down my site and put it back on, you take off all my girls and then return them, you wont enable any of my girls,etc. We are done. Keep my money u greedy bastard, and use it to pay whatever u will undoubtedly charge me for hosting etc. If there is money left after 6-1-11, send it to me but I doubt I will ever see it.

Tell u the truth Mark, you have not heard the last of me. I complied with what u asked of me by redirecting the link back and activating CCBill. Not enough for you I guess.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++

　
　
　
Back to real time :

You said you would not charge me to reactivate Ccbill and you did. There are so many other contractions I will post that I sometimes wonder if you are having seizures due to the nature of them

I am sorry that this has to come out into the open and be posted on this forum, but there is no other way to bring this to the attention of people who work in this field.Thanks for taking the time to read it, and I hope there is some positive result to the industry from this long post


Steve

Actually it was to suggest we configure and install his own CCBill processing free of charge, so that any unfortunate action on his part not endanger our master CCBill account.

.

Greg, I do not have a problem with you. You are one of the nicest guys I have ever met. Solutions after the fact are not the same as acting on them when a viable solution could have been achieved.

I will count you as my friend regardless of how this eventuates


Steve

Steve you are omitting important details. You re-directed your traffic, not your domain. We did all of this for you as you asked, but you blew up at us again when we refused to promote your models.

Just because YOU say that you were not in violation of Terms of Service doesn't mean that you were not. You were in violation of our Terms of Service AND you were also in volation of CCBill's TOS which is located here: http://www.ccbill.com/cs/client/poli...table_use.html.

In order to keep our good name with CCBill, we want to make sure that sites running our sub account are not breaking their TOS.

If you are going to argue your points please keep them accurate.

You guys do deal with a lot of complete noobs and the success rate has to be low because of that. I can't image the amount of bullshit you have to put up with.

I am sure its all there in the TOS or listed on your website and in 99% of the cases the client misses it, or doesn't read it or is ignorant to how it works. Then he gets mad and accusing you of doing something wrong. Or worst the ones that make no money will claim you ripped them off.

The only way to avoid most of that is to go over everything with them ad nauseum, every thing that is hard, how most people fail etc... so they know 100% what they are getting themselves into. I don't think you should be expected to do it to that extent, these people should investigate and know what they are getting themselves into. However, if you did i doubt you would have anyone bitching to you after they fail. Then again you would likely scare most of them away and you would have a lot less people signing up for your services.

Hell, I would have a separate page going over everything with them in detail and make them sign it, so they couldn't bitch later about these types of issues. Not a long drawn out TOS that most people dont read, but a page explaining the pitfalls, what happens if they do this or don't do that etc.

any way just my thoughts.

I have made my points Mark. My last posting delineates the inconsistencies of your thinking. You said you would turn on ccbill for free , and i only found out later during that brief period of time I was not locked out that you charged me $195.00. I made every attempt to work out an amicable ending, but you would not cooperate.If this is how you do business, caveat emptor

I don't know you and probably don't want to. There are many fine points in any contract which can be misunderstood. The important point is that when I learned of my mistake, i rectified it immediately. Being new to this business is daunting and perhaps you have forgotten when you first started.

I assure you that if you want to debate me on issues other than your obvious bias toward newbie mistakes, I can more than handle myself

my comments were generally speaking of course.

I made lots of mistakes way back in the day from jumping into stuff without knowing all of the details. Point is, you can't get mad at the company because you didn't understand the contract.

I also believe in giving people their money back if they are the slightest bit unhappy but you can't expect everyone to do that because the customer didn't know what he was getting himself into or it didn't work out the way he planed it.

then before you cast aspersions about one's intelligence or ethical stance, try to remember there is a learning curve in this business. Those that should be vilified are those who know they have transgressed and still make no effort to rectify the situation. Regardless, this specific issue needs to be put into context with the entire set of circumstances leading up to this point and not viewed solely on its own
Ty for responding though

Steve

We really do. Please see below:




Steve:

Your ability to make profit or not has nothing to do with our software. LiveCamNetwork is essentially an accounting program. It can only count what you put into it.

Actual PROFIT comes from managing your content, your traffic, your sales and your money, all of which we tried very hard to help you with, and all of it you completely ignored.

Here is a small sample of what you did wrong.

First, here is your traffic for 2010:

http://www.2much.net/gfy-steve/stats...nshot-2010.jpg

As you can see, you had a total of 233,592 unique visitors for the year. This is on the low side, but it might be ok if the traffic was TARGETED, which it was not. Despite the name of your domain, "liveCOLLEGEGIRLS.com" (great name), you hired 48 year old ladies such as Jasmine. This is ok for MBASE because many of her customers came from Southern Charms (another one of our customers) which is how she made money.

For 2010, you had 120 purchases, $7017.85 in sales, $899.80 in Chargebacks. 49 of the 120 Purchases on your website were made by YOU as "Punchcard"

http://www.2much.net/gfy-steve/sales...nshot-2010.jpg

This put your conversion rate at a terrible 1 in 3290 uniques.

Your chargeback rate was also very high at 12:82%. We told you many times that you have to keep your chargeback rate under 1%. Even though you ignored this advice too, we let you stay on.

As for not turning a profit, we cannot be responsible for how you spend your own money. In 2010, you purchased $3838.55 USD, video chatting with your own girls and other girls on the network:

http://www.2much.net/gfy-steve/what-...s-end-user.jpg

Next, there is all the money you gave to customers that your chat models were sending to your website:

http://www.2much.net/gfy-steve/accounts-stolen.jpg


When a customer makes a purchase on any website using CCBill or other processor, you have to allow time for "settlement" to occur. Settlement is a nice way of saying actually getting the money in your hands, and to use the build-in accounting system of LiveCamNetwork to pay your models on a schedule.

In July 2010 you admitted to us that you were not following any schedule, and that you were actually paying some EU models in advance because "they needed the money". (omg..!) Anyway, Tracy, who manages all of the CCBill details for including payouts, went out of her way to post a detailed explanation of how it works for you on August 11th. Here are a couple of screenshots:

http://www.2much.net/gfy-steve/ccbill-from-tracy.jpg

Your model Jasmine also chose to ring-in on the conversation (for which she had no business participating in)

http://www.2much.net/gfy-steve/ccbill-jasmine.jpg

Now of course Jasmine is a newbie so her post can be excused, but you have no excuse Steve. We warned you that you were making lots of mistakes. Any profits you earned were squandered or misspent by you, while some of your models simply ignored customers altogether.

Mark,

My post was never about profit. I admit the some of the fault was mine , but Mark the odds are really stacked against a new site making a profit. When I saw that I was charged $901.00 in January for Administrative costs, I decided then to terminate my relationship with you. I decided why stay with a program that allows very little chance to make money. If you want to get into the machinations of your business plan just read the earlier posts made in this thread.

Who is going to pay almost $12,000 a year in administrative costs, plus another $1000.00 to extend their contract for another disasterous year? Not me bro

Of course there is a learning curve in ANY business. There are millions of adult websites out there. We do not claim to be experts. All we can do Steve is try to teach you what we learned, and to help you learn from our own mistakes (And we have made some serious whoppers in our years in this biz thats for sure).

You never needed to take our word on everything, but don't forget that we encouraged you constantly to attend trade shows such as Internext, Xbiz, Qwebec Expo etc, but you refused to attend a single event. Had you done so, you could have met Cathy from Segpay who could have offered you a good alternative to billing, or Mark from CCBill who could have helped you manage fraud and chargebacks (I will never forget his invaluable advice he gave us back in 2005), or Judy from EroAdvertising who could have offered you better traffic, or the Wildline guys for help with Google advertising, and of course tons of content and chat model providers.

PS: Networking is everything, and is what Mbase is based on. You made money thanks to networking. Problem is, you depended on the network to do everything for you and you then (or your model) then tried to steal from it. Sorry but that's the harsh truth.

I used to work with LCN back in 2009. All I can tell you is that in my case was more of a "learning experience" on how to NOT throw away money on products that you don't have control over.
Would I recommend LCN to anybody that ask me? I would have to say NO, based on my experience with them.
When I decided to purchase my license, I disregarded one very important rule: "researching enough on a company before I buy their product". I guess I learned my lesson the hard way.

P.S Will76, maybe if you where to work with LCN, your opinion will be totally different.

99% of studios are scammers in some form. We no longer pay them out directly for models, we pay the models directly due to issues like this.

Your original posts were not, but you brought profit into the discussion when you said "After I told you I would not renew my license with you due to the inability to make a profit in two years,", and are challenging our software and services and attempting to tarnish our name. I will respond to every single post you care to off. When you say something wrong, I will argue. When you say something that is right, I will commend you.

In my opinion, this is a good start. Thanks for that.

Of course it is but it doesn't have to be. It is your responsibility to run your business as best as you can. It is our business to collect for the services we render, to help you where we can, and to make sure our software is not misused.


That's too bad, because you made a mistake because $331.32 of this was a payout to you (It appears in your statement as a debit because it is DEBITED from your 2Much account and PAID to your bank account).

You are also forgetting (or ignoring) the credits to your account for January of $1443.59.

I will also point out that charges would not be such an issue if you had better (targeted) traffic and better models to convert that traffic. For example, Chat model "Malinka4sex" spent 73 hours online on your website and sold only 13 minutes of private chat time. Chat model BristolBangs spent 9 hours only and sold only 10 minutes.

This is one of the reasons why we refused to promote your models.

Also, just to clarify:

Steve / Frottage, your license was suspended for:

- Stealing customers
- Misuse of our software
- Breach of trust
- High Chargeback rates
- Violation of our Terms of Service / AUP (By you, redirecting traffic)
- Violation of our Terms of Service / AUP (By Jasmine, theft of customers)
- Violation of our Terms of Service / AUP (By Jasmine : Something I will send to you in private)


I think that this is more than reason enough to turn off any website.

Goodbye and good luck.

did pornsitenewbie get paid his $10,000 after waiting 6 months?

There is indeed a learning curve in "this business" but there is no learning curve in common sense. There is a huge difference between the two.

Knowing what you getting yourself into is something that should be learned very early on in life or you will just keep making the same mistakes over and over.

Learning how to convert traffic, generate sales, run a business etc.. is a true "learning curve" aka learning from "experience".

great post. but I wouldn't have worked with them for much the same reasons you concluded. If I did a cam site I would want to own the software or have source code to make changes to it. LCN is a great product for some people depending on their situation, but most people jump into it without doing research much like your situation, and then find out it probably wasn't right for them.

Working with them is neither here nor there. All the "he said, she said" shit is trivial. The main things that people who show up in threads like this bitch about for using their software is exactly the same things they would have found about if they would have done their homework before hand or at least thoroughly understood how his system works.

It never fails with people who are new. They want to put the cart before the horse. When they should be starting off from day one as an affiliate and learn traffic and making sales, they want to jump in with their own cam site then get pissed when they fail. It's a lot less expensive to try something as an affiliate with no monthly fees then jumping into a situation where you have high monthly costs, but who's fault is that for happening?

someone making a couple hundred thousand dollars.


/ end of thread.


welcome to the internet and running your own business, it's not for everyone.

Too tired to continue. If necessary, more tomorrow

Let's get one thing straight Mark. My admission of taking some blame for not making a profit had nothing to do with the purpose of my posts. I made mistakes in advertising and paying out too early. This has nothing to do with why I made these posts, so please do not try to twist it to that.

My reason for leaving was the sequence of events that led up to my departure. How I was not paid even after you said the wire was sent. How you charged me for ccbill when you said it would be done for free. How insistent you were to not allow me to put a disclaimer up as previously stated to protect everybody involved. How you fabricate all the TOS violations. There is just too many things to list. Your site is geared toward one agenda, to make money for you and LCN

I have followed the exodus of site owners for years, and I tried to point out to you many times what I saw as the reasons for this. You always come back to your same "talking points" about not relying on Mbase and bad advertising. There is a long list of site owners who left disillusioned with your business plan. Most site owners do not make a cent after being in your program and that is a fact.

I will give my license to anyone who wants it for free. See if you can turn a profit. It is not the money that made me leave, it was the realization that there would never be an opportunity to make a profit.

You charge for everything other sites offer free. Your own traffic stinks and there are times you have no girls online. How is one to run a successful advertising program when there are hardly any girls online.? You never admit that low conversions are connected to not having any models online.

The truth is Mark that most of my girls were forced to work several sites at the same time to make it worthwhile to be on LCN. Guess what Mark; they all made money on other sites and very little on LCN.

Finally, almost a day before I left and a day after I gave you notice, you sent me an email giving me concessions to stay. Hardly something one would expect for a person accused of so many TOS violations.I will post this email shortly.

Mark, you have been through this so many times you are very good at defending yourself. Unfortunately, all your statements sound the same regardless of who is the complainant.

This post was only begun to alert people of a generic problem and to let them make their own decisions. Please try to refrain from your usual opening statement ,?You are mistaken (insert name here).For once accept some responsibly for the never ending problems that occur with you, LCN and your flawed business model.

Finally to all reading this post I offer two words ; caveat emptor

Does this sound like an email that one would send to a person who has been accused of 5 TOS violations? Give me a break!

Clear flagRe: Something for you..Sunday, February 13, 2011 7:31 PMFrom: "Stephen Davis" <[email protected]>View contact detailsTo: "Mark Prince" <**********@2much.net>

hello Mark,

I will go with my letter yesterday asking that you initiate an orderly shut down of my site. I will cooperate in any way possible to avoid any problems

Steve



--- On Sun, 2/13/11, Mark Prince <**********@2much.net> wrote:

> From: Mark Prince <**********@2much.net>
> Subject: Something for you..
> To: "Stephen Davis" <[email protected]>
> Date: Sunday, February 13, 2011, 12:54 PM
>
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> I have made the following adjustments to your site :
>
> Mbase fees are now 15 cents per minute instead of 25 cents
> per minute.
> Hosting is now $125 instead of $135. (You are getting
> AuthSMTP services for free)
> Allotted free bandwidth has been increased from 5GB to
> 25GB.
> Bandwidth cap for billing purposes has been dropped from
> 450kb/s to 250kb/s
> Performer Licenses remain at $9.95 but North American model
> activations will be credited back to you.
> Holdback rate has been dropped from 10% to 6.5%
> Revshare has been INCREASE from 9.5 to 10.5%.
>
> What you are getting is now essentially all of the same
> prices as Enterprise users. This will save you alot of
> money on mbase and bandwidth usage. Cap limiting means
> that you will be charged at a maximum bit rate of 250kb/s
> regardless of what your chat models actually use.
> (Some have better cameras and faster computers so they used
> more). I want to encourage you to hire models from
> North America so I will credit their licenses
> back. I also want to encourage you and your
> business so I am dropping the holdback rate which puts more
> money in your pocket faster. The only new cost
> to you is an extra 1% on your total sales. If I am
> going to help you by reducing your fees, I fully
> expect to be compensated, hence the 1% increase.
>
> These new prices will remain in effect for 1 year at which
> time we can review the numbers and see what needs to be
> adjusted and where.
>
> Let me know if you accept this offer.
>
> Mark
>

No, much worse, he filed a lawsuit against me. That's right, you heard correctly, he sued me!!! For what you ask? For taking my business to a real company which makes money from the success of their customers instead of their failure. Yes, he sued me. Imagine Bernie Madoff suing the people he screwed for taking their money out, a real class act!!!

Of course to make it harder for me to defend, he sued me in Montreal (yes, read the fine print on your 7 page small print contract unless it's even longer now, you are agreeing to be bound by Canadian law). Anyway, my US lawyer referred me to a really good attorney in Montreal who not only took my case but charged one flat fee, no matter how long it took to litigate. Somehow, I don't think Mark's attorney gave him a similar deal on capped legal fees, and he must have felt my case was strong enough to win, because Mark called me shortly thereafter to offer a cash settlement. So you sue someone to offer him a cash settlement??? Interesting business practice, a first for me that's for sure! Yes, I'm getting some of my money back, but I'm never getting back the lost time.

I've been reading these posts, and all I can say is I am very disappointed it's business as usual for Mark. Nothing has changed. Yes will76, there comes a time when "you should have done your homework" doesn't cut it any more! When a business knowingly sets a trap for unwitting victims to fall into, they cross the line between business and fraud. That's why there are laws and consumer protection. The reasons 2Much adult cam site customers fail without exception are these:

1) The very basic modern SEO principles are ignored in his "software". His customers have no choice of how their website links appear. Here is Mark's own home page: http://cam.livecamnetwork.com/cgi-bi...e_custmain.cgi. I'm no SEO guru, but tell me when was the last time you saw a URL like that after 1997? What's the point of SEO if none of the links will be picked up by he SE's?

2) The most live models on the entire MBase network at any given time are maybe 3 to 5 (see http://cam.livecamnetwork.com/cgi-bi...e_custmain.cgi), with most of the time 0-2 models being live (1 of which would be from a shared studio in Romania).

3) There is no way to have models appear in different categories or multiple pages (pagination), a very basic feature. No search feature for models, no way for end users to change their passwords, no way to upload videos, no way for models to block their home city, and that's only what I remember from over 2 years ago. I bet none of that has changed since then, why bother if noobs keep coming and giving their money away?

4) He charges $35/month for "Automated Human Monitored Anti-Fraud Detection" to aggressively fight your fraud (http://2much.net/fraud-detection.php). What does this mean? It means you have to call each one of your customers to verify their charge by phone! Not his staff, you as the client. That's what Mark told me when I had an unusually high month of chargebacks just like one of the recent posters here. In reality the chargebacks are customers realizing they have just signed up for a camsite with 1997 technology and no models on. Who wouldn't charge back?

5) When you leave Mark will recruit the very few models you have left by offering them a fixed salary to work on his site, so the odds of you starting another site get even lower since all of your few remaining models are now gone. So Mark identifies your best models, and then tries to get them on salary when you leave. Yes, this happened to me, see my earlier posts.

So even if you do all those things Mark described in his usual defensive post (which he must have templated by now, just needing to insert the accounting screenshots to make the latest noob look like a fool), your failure will be inevitable, and Mark knows this from the day he takes your first dollar. The deck is stacked, and Mark has all the aces. Yes, things like networking at trade shows, switching billing providers, advertising, link exchanges, etc., none of that matters, because LCN/2Much.net system will just stop you dead in your tracks, and make all that effort go to waste. By the time you realize that you've been had from day one, it's too late, and you're out a bunch of time and money. Does it matter to Mark? Not at all, because he makes money from all the exhorbitant fees he charges. Let's get real, 5GB data transfer per month for the default package (which is already priced way out of the ballpark based on today's hosting rates). Does anyone know of any cam site ever to make any money with 5GB of monthly bandwidth?

The only positive testimonial that I have ever seen from a real customer of 2Much was GonZo in this thread, but he did make a disclaimer in his praise of Mark "Not much of an update as Ive not done much work with my license." How sad indeed, I wonder how he would have felt if he actually used the LCN license?

Mark, you had all this time since I left to clean up your business by making the basic upgrades needed for anyone to even have a remote chance of succeeding in the cam biz, but you doing nothing just proves what your business model truly is...

For anyone who cares to know how my cam business is doing since I left Mark, let's just say this, income up 10,000%, expenses down 90% (no monthly hosting costs), chargebacks less than 1% per month consistently! Same domains, many many more models now because they do stay with a real site, much more traffic because SEO is being done right, and I am proud to see my site being as good as any out there with all the latest bells and whistles. What does all this prove? You tell me...

BTW, to make this easier for everyone who will undoubtedly follow my footsteps to Montreal court, here is my attorney's contact details:

Maurice Lasry
Tél: (514) 844-8631
www.lasrylegal.com

So when you get that lawsuit from Mark, don't panic, call Maurice Lasry, and he will charge you about 1 month worth of Mark's fees and surcharges to take your case to the end! If anyone wants to join in a single legal case, feel free to post here too, as Mr. Lasry will gladly give quantity discounts :)

I didn't read through all of that yet, just wanted to comment on the part above. You people sound so amateur. You act so shocked that he sued you in Canada. Where was he suppose to sue you? in your town? All legal contracts worth more than the paper they are written on address what happens if a lawsuit arises and give the location (always where the person who wrote the contract is located) where it would be litigated.

Also 7 page contract.... the horror! How dare he make a long contract. He is evil.

It's hard to take any of you serious and get past that stuff when you don't know how to take business serious.

I know I sound like an asshole, but if you don't take offense and listen to it, the message will help you.


PS: if your case has not be decided, you are an idiot for talking about details on here.

PPS: if your attorney is that cheap and doing it for pennies like you make it sound, he isn't worth a shit and your case is the last thing he will be worried about.