Before you drag me into this pissing match Ill remind you that even though I wasnt doing much work on my site I was still paying the hosting fees etc that the rest of you guys are.

My decision was based on time constraints only. It had nothing to do with the software or Mark Prince. Trust me if it did I would have said so and Mark himself will tell you that I have been one of his worst critics in the past.

Dont cloud this issue with any conjecture on your part about my relationship and business with LCN.

I suggest you read his entire post .. he claims they (LCN) quickly decided to offer him a cash settlement once they realised his lawyer was not an idiot .. if this is true . . that about says it all about this LCN stuff . . just out there scamming people who want to get in the cam business .... :2 cents:

wow mark prince and lcn, what a fucking douchebags you are ... :2 cents:

Mark is based in 2 places, Montreal and Las Vegas. He could have easily sued me there, but I'll tell you why he sued me in Canada, and I suspect this is just a standard end to a business relationship at LCN.

He sues in Canada because it's a cheap way of getting out of paying people the money he owes them. He figures that most people will not bother responding to a Canadian lawsuit, and will let him get a default judgment. The last thing people will want to do is sink more money into legal fees after losing a fortune already.

Once he gets a default judgment in Canada, it's very unlikely the losing person will ever take him to court in the US, and if they do, he can always refer to that case. Filing a lawsuit on his home turf by a lawyer he has on retainer costs him maybe $150 (if even that since his lawyer's retainer probably includes a few of these "breach of TOS" lawsuits each month), but paying back the money he owes to each ex customer, which in my case was thousands of dollars would have cost much more.

Just normal business practices for Mark, I'm not shocked at all. In my case, I caught him off guard by actually responding to his lawsuit on his home turf, and countersuing for a lot more than he could afford. Once he saw that I meant business, and was not afraid to put up as much money as needed to win, he quickly offered to settle.

you so uninformed. You assume that all of Mark's customers are from the USA. What about his Canadian customers getting sued in Canada, is he trying to screw them too by not sueing them in the US. Or his customers from all over the world...

I don't know if he has an office in Vegas or what, but pretty sure the company is based in Canada and that is where I am betting he lives and is a citizen. All I have ever heard or seen is that they are in Canada.

So which software/ site are you doing 100x better with now?

http://nvsos.gov/sosentitysearch/Cor...53d%253d&nt7=0

Type: Domestic Limited-Liability Company

Canadians, he would sue in Vegas of course, Canada is way too close to home! Besides, I think his only Canadian customer is his drinking buddy who came to his defense earlier on in this thread, so I am sure he is immune from prosecution :)

There are so many more who can and probably will come forward. To name a few there are SCF, Paul and Mark from Envy. I left their names out and sites to protect their privacy, but Mark knows who they are.

Mark, please answer a few questions:

In the middle of February I was due a payment of approx $700 to $800.As you know, I always pay my models regardless of my situation with you. On the last payday, and I will find the screenshots, I was due a payment according to the accounting system. As you will remember, this was the period when you told us payment would be a day late, probably because you were in Vegas or LA. I figured, no biggie, wtf is one extra day. After waiting three days and seeing no wire transfer in my bank account, I emailed you. You quickly said that I was not due a payment even though I showed you the screenshot indicating I was.

At this point, I figured if I cannot even get paid what is due me and I have to pay all the administrative fees, it was time to leave. Within a few minutes you emailed me asking why I was leaving stating that if it was because of the missing payment not to worry since it was now sent out. As of last week I still had not received anything.

Next, after I told you I was not interested in the concessions you had to offer me, you shut down the site which I was okay with. You also turned off CCbill, and then told me I would be in violation of ccbill policy if it were turned off. Why did you turn it off if you knew it put me in jeopardy? You said you would activate my CCbill, but it would cost me $450.00. I refused and then you sent a letter I posted previously saying you would reactivate my CCbill for free.Hahahahahaa! As I have documented, you charged me 195.00for what you said you would do for free. At that point even with the CCbill deduction, I had over $500.00 due me. You later told me that all money would be seized for six months to protect you from chargebacks,etc.I honestly never expect to see a penny.

Today I tried to login to my Accounting program to see what I owed
my models and I saw this:

Account balance too low.


Dear Client,

You are seeing this page because your current account has fallen below its Minimum Reserve or its Credit Limit and for this reason and for the protection of our other customers, access to your administrator program and other services are temporarily suspended. In order to continue to bring your account back into full active status, an immediate payment is required.


Your Current balance is: $755.50 USD

Your Minimum Reserve is: $250.00 USD

--------------------

Your total payment due now is: $-505.5 USD

Mark, I cannot speak for anyone else, but working with you in so frustrating it takes the pleasure out of even trying to be succesful. I wish you would listen to some of the people who have made there concerns known rather than always defending your position with template responses.

everything that surrounds LCN / 2much sounds shady

Frottage, why didn't you just put your domain on a cams whitelabel? No fees whatsoever, no design hassle, an endless supply of models, no processing to deal with and you still collect 25-40% of all revenue generated. I would encourage any newbie who wants their own cam site to at least try a white label first and see if you can make it successful before trying to run your own cam site.

In retrospect I should have.

Agreed. This is a much better option for people who are looking to make money with cams but aren't familiar with all the intricacies of running a live cam operation.

That's not meant as a slight against LCN or 2Much or their product, it may be the best turn key live cam solution. Just based on the feedback seen in these threads over the years their product doesn't seem to be very entry level / newbie friendly and it seems to make picking up your toys and going home very difficult and costly for someone who is just getting their toes wet.

one of the best reponse so far

Hm, so if the LCN solution isn't for newbies, then who is it for, pros? I bet there is not a single successful "pro" using their system, and feel free to correct me if I am wrong Mark. The "system" is nothing but a front to subsidize Mark's own cam site and his trips to Vegas.

You don't have to look too far for a real cam solution at a tiny fraction of the cost of LCN Technologies advanced system for Pros:

http://camscripts.com/

As you can see that system does not compete with their customers and is not geared to make them fail. Hosting is not required, there are no monthly fees, no human fraud prevention fees with you being the human doing the fraud prevention, no transfer fees, no renewal fees, no bandwidth overage charges based on 1997 pricing, no model stealing, no bounced checks, no TOS Violation lawsuits, and the license is for actual software, not for a poorly executed whitelabel disguised as software.

Just contact Streamate and get a WL set up. :thumbsup

One of the things that most annoys me is Mark's response to Mbase. The package is sold to help new site owners reap the benefits of a shared model system. It is advertised as such, but when a site owner questions the enormous charges associated with Mbase they always get the same response- don't rely on Mbase. Well Mark, that is one of the major reasons people buy into your system. One cannot make a profit using Mbase; the fees are just so exorbitant, Mark's usual answer is to concentrate on retail sales meaning sales directly from one's own website. If we had that capacity to start with why would anyone buy into your program?

It takes years to build up a viable customer base through networking and advertising, and this is made even harder by the lack of models online. Why would a potential customer sign up (i.e. convert) when they see no models or perhaps 2-3 models on? They won't so they go elsewhere. and advertising money is lost.

I have given up trying to figure out his system. I feel relieved to be gone. I would love to see the money he has garnished, but that is unlikely.

This is not a program for a newbie. If one has a book of business and does not have to depend on Mbase,only then can they expect some return on their investment
:mad:

I am Paul that Steve mentioned in a previous post in this thread and I have been monitoring this thread with great interest and I fully understand every criticism posted regarding the business practises of Mark Prince CEO of 2Much.
I had the misfortune of making a very big mistake by doing business with LCN and purchasing an Enterprise software license. Does anyone want it for FREE just contact me.
I will state also that I failed to do my homework on this man and his sharp practises.
I also confirm that this man still owes me money all be it a small amount. It seemed to me that this man uses his site / program / License owners monies held within 2much LCN for his own personal use and dips into these accounts whenever he wants.
In the just short of a year I was with 2Much I had deductions from my accounts and errors in my account every single month although admittedly he put most of them right, but hey I spent far too much time trying to recover monies from him.
I eventually complained one time to many regarding the monies missing and deducted and the numerous errors and was asked to move on?.
Frottage as far as my own experience speaks the truth and I am in awe of his persistence, you see Mark does seem to have a set of stock answers that he uses on everyone that ever complains. The tactic is always the same he simply tries and does eventually wear his victims down, and when the going gets tough he calls out the cavalry in the form of Greg (Media Guy) who I have nothing but praise for, he is fast, concise, his customer service is exemplary, its just such a shame he is not the owner because I would probably be doing business with him still and I have no doubt so would a lot of ex users of the 2much system.
If any of you others wish to join and talk legal redress utilizing the Canadian lawyer mentioned in this thread, I am willing to talk with you.
Surely the posts in this thread will serve as Steve / frottage states as a deterrent for anyone like me who was silly enough to do business with this clown, Steve has hit it on the head ?let the buyer beware? (caveat emptor)
Oh I forgot to mention, that the concept of the 2much system was very good, but in the hands of Mark has been corrupted.
I was so disgusted with the disadvantages of the LCN 2Much system I went away and had a program built, based on the non corrupted co-operative of shared knowledge, shared content, shared promotional tools, shared traffic etc with none of the fees / charges / hosting / bandwidth / licensing costs. A system, program that does not put any one website in direct competition with another, unlike the 2Much system where LCN the so called demo site is always in direct competition with every other webmaster, license holder on the same system. This program I will launch in the next few weeks. A tool that is completely FREE to use with no If?s buts or bullshit.

Paul, you are so correct about Greg. If he were running the company, I am almost certain that 90% of the departures would have never taken place.

I apologize if my replies come off as any kind od advertising for us. I am simply challenging what PornSiteNewbe and Frottage, and I am backing up my points with reason, real data and screenshots.


Normally it would expire on this date, you are correct. However we are exercising our right to terminate your license due to multiple violations of our TOS which were already pointed out to you.



On the contrary, you have full control over how it looks, the models you hire, the amount you charge and the amount you pay your models. FTP access is granted to setup your own style, look-and-feel, graphics, images, banners and SEO. What you do not get with our license is its source code which was never promised to you. This fact is listed on our FAQ at http://www.2much.net/faq.php


It did - you said so in your post.

You are blaming our software and service instead of yourself for your own failure and have said so several times now. I am replying to your posts reminding you that our software works perfectly and as described on our website, that my staff and I went out of our way to help you, and that the list of mistakes you made go way beyond what you have admitted to in this thread to date.

No wire was sent because during our regular payout cycle your account balance was below your minimum payment threshold which is adjustable by you yourself in your own administrator program.

Our normal rate for all technical support and programming issues not related to the ongoing operation of our software is $150.00 per hour and is stated in various places in your admin program. Your requests at the time were:

- To remove our CCBIll account and replace it with your own (Ye (programming) Time)
- To fix your index page that your webmaster changed (Greg Time)
- To replace your account and replace it with ours (you change your mind fast)

The switching of CCBIll accounts is not as simple as swapping account codes. We have to create the purchase tickets in your account, have CCBill verify it, do a post-back test, etc.

We were more than 3 hours into it but instead of charge you full price I charged you only for about 1 hour and 15 minutes.


Nothing was fabricated.


How many girls you choose to hire to work for you is your responsibility, not ours.

This is not correct. We have posted screenshots of our own stats and sales including Google Analytics and we do pretty well because we target our advertising and train our chat models. Not only are our methods not a secret but they have been explained and demonstrated to you many times in the past.

We do not pretent to be a big chat site. MFC, Video Secrets etc are the kings and we will never come close to what they do. All we do is run our simple little 2-studio loft in Montreal Canada, and then try to help customers like you to do the same thing we do. It's not rocket science, its just hard work.

No, you posted this because you feel backed into a corner because you cannot come to terms that you failed. You reach out to others for support and to reinforce your own misguided beliefs and blame "everything, everyone, else" instead of yourself.

[QUOTE=Deputy Chief Command;17929886]I suggest you read his entire post .. he claims they (LCN) quickly decided to offer him a cash settlement once they realised his lawyer was not an idiot .. if this is true . . that about says it all about this LCN stuff . . just out there scamming people who want to get in the cam business .... :2 cents:[/QUOTE

You just wasted 2 cents. The offer to settle the disagreement was made not because of what you may think about our lawyer or anything else.

In any disagreement between parties it is always much better to gather the facts and base decisions on them. We made no mistakes and no errors. The call was made to find a way to settle the disagreement before things got out of control, and they were.


The Motion In Resiliation of Contract was done in Quebec because that is where the Terms of Service, which you accepted, said it would be.


Your balance at the end of the billing cycle was only $8.38 at which time paid $242.45 to keep your account above the minimum reserve and your minimum payout was set at $250.00.

You cannot log-in to your account because it is locked-out. I will email you a PDF of your balance after I complete this post.




Business is not worth doing unless you are going to make money.

Truth be told though I am not that crazy about travelling, and I don't gamble.

I will agree with you Pornsitenewbie that not only is our software not for newbies, this business is not for newbies either.


Mbase is an option that is provided to you for free in free chat. We only charge for its use any time your website or your model makes a sale.

Mbase is a "network connection" between other site owners. You, like everyone else, can charge anything they like for other sites to use your models, or negotiate a price with any other sites. It's "networking' in a very true form.

Your chat model, 48 year old "Jasmine", made money on your niche-to-content mismatched site "LiveCollegeCamGirls.com", because sites who specialize in Milf / Mature content such as Southern Charms, were able to provide her live streams to their customers.

Mbase is a system designed to help get you started only. I told you many times "not to rely on it", and to instead hire more models and acquire your own traffic. You ignored this advice.

Mark, you are an idiot. Everything you say is a lie in some form or fashion. Besides SC and the Daddy Site, how many sites have lasted one year with you?

You are pathetic

Don't waste my time sending me any of your famous screenshots.

I will only be happy when enough site owners decide to band together to show the industry what you and your business are all about.

You are a disgrace.You are never wrong- ever. I have never seen a person so incapable of introspection. There can be a long line of disputants, and you will never admit one wrong.

Good luck with your business. All I can say is caveat emptor!

Alright.


And yet you were the one caught lying. ("I didn't know Jasmine was doing this"). I notice you haven't told anyone here that your model was also pissing all over herself which is also against our TOS and CCBill's?

I think you are upset that a site like http://www.daddylive.com can constantly do well with their unusual talent.

Alright.


Steve if you are going to challenge someone you have to be prepared for them to argue back. The screenshots show all.

Clearly this is your motivation.

On the contrary Steve, we are wrong very often. Here's some of the major mistakes we have / I have made in the past, in no particular order.

- Not having redundant billing processors (2004)
- Not paying attention to customer transactions (2004)
- Not taking credit card fraud seriously (2005)
- Not switching to Flash earlier (2008)
- Not being compatible with the Mac platform earlier (2008)
- Not taking advantage of the Mobile Market yet (Big oops there) (2011, ugh..)
Etc..

All we can do for you Steve, is our best. Our software works well, and that all of the support we offered you was based on our own knowledge and that from which we have learned in this industry.

Caveat emptor? No. Caveat venditor

Emm, and how is this not a lawsuit?

What's the difference to me how and why the check bounced, it still bounced! I didn't get my money when it was owed, and my bank returned your check unpaid after I deposited it, so to me the check bounced.

What? Where do I claim this? Show me where I say I have never been paid. What I did say was that your last check bounced, and I never received any payout for the last 4 months before you "Resiliated" my contract, both of which are 100% true.

Where do I claim this? Not in this thread that's for sure. All I said was "Yes, I'm getting some of my money back, but I'm never getting back the lost time." How did you interpret that to mean that the matter was not settled and payment was not received in trust?

Mark, is there any place in this long thread that demonstrates you are a person able to consider another person's views. Is there one concession from you in this long thread that perhaps you made a mistake or your judgment was off?

I am referring to interpersonal considerations ,and you are referencing your own administrative oversights.

Much different Mark, but it is sad you cannot see the difference

A $6000 license fee is sure a huge amount of money. Make a wise investment! Good luck.

You don't have to look very far to find false advertising aimed at newbies, just look at Mark's signature:

"Tired of low-paying chat room plug-ins? PLUG-OUT and OWN IT ALL instead! http://www.2Much.net"

Own what??? I would say that has to be the furthest thing from the truth! With your system, the buyer owns nothing, you own it all. All the buyer owns is a fictitious license that they can't even give away after they leave. I offered mine for free here in 2009 and noone wanted it, and frottage just offered his too. Yeah, we really own it all, Mark!!!

All it asks is that the court declare the license agreement be resiliated as of Nov 2.

The term "bounce" implies that we could not cover the value of the check, and in post #31 you you said you had to pay an NSF Fee. NFS means "Non-Sufficient Funds" which was not the case. Upon deposit and or clearing of the check, your bank would have (or should have) informed you that the check had a stop-payment on it, and that it was not NSF.



In the telephone call we had during this time, you claimed that you had not been paid. We looked at your statement together and you said that we had not paid you for all of the payments we said we had.

No this is not true. The payments were made to V Entertainment as I recall. Prior to June



In post #199 of this thread you responded to ~Ray's question "did pornsitenewbie get paid his $10,000 after waiting 6 months?" You responded "No, Much worse".

However in the same message you posted

Yes you are right. My apologies.

Moving forward PornSiteNewbe, our business together is done and you have been paid. Forgive me if I made any mistakes in this post but as you can imaging it has been a long 2 days for me.

When you change prices( per minute in Mbase) for my models, enable and disable, change my models access passwords at your sole discretion; how am I in control?


Huh? What was that Mark?You talk about "networking"and "network connection"? LAMO
I remember this being quite different.If a model was submitted to Mbase for approval, you were the only one deciding, based on your own criteria (or "niche" if I was to quote you) if that model will be shared in Mbase (network:1orglaugh) or not.
Mbase should have been a BASE OF MODELS where all the other site owners should have access and the right to chose for themselves, whom to enable in their sites or not.You took that away from us by making decisions in our behalf.
To me this sounds more like a game in which you make and change the rules as you please.You made the mistake of confusing LCN (that you own) with Mbase that we were all sharing. When you realize that a model does not correspond to your niche or standards you are entitled to remove her from your site not from Mbase (the so called "network connection").

Based on how many years you have been in this industry and with so many webmasters purchasing your product, you could have been way above them if you were REALLY using the NETWORK.The only thing that stood between you and this network success was just your limited way of thinking.

Because that is not glamorous and no fun.

When people start a new business they want to do the fun stuff like pick the domain name and build / play with stuff. They want to own their own site not uses someone else's. The want to day dream about how much money their new site is going to make them.

What fun would it be to slap a white label together then have to get to work right away on building traffic. That's no fun. fuck that.

The big thing I saw from a lot of people 8-10 years ago was turnkey membership sites. Everyone who was new to the internet wanted to own an adult site and "make millions". Day 1 they would go drop a thousand or two on a turn key website and pay a monthly fee for hosting, processing, and "leased" content. Basically at the end of the day they could have made the the same or more as an affiliate with out having to come out of pocket for anything. But like anything else, once the fun is over playing bob the builder the reality sets in... I don't know what the fuck I am doing, I can't make any money, and some one most have scammed me.

Of course the logical thing for any new person would be to start off slow, as an affiliate and get a white label site or just send traffic. Maybe build a couple free pages, learn a couple SKILLS, main thing being start at step 1, LEARN how to generate traffic and make money and not jump to step 10, try to own your own cam site right away.

2much's solution would be a good fit for people who:

- Know how to generate traffic and already make a good bit of sales
- Do not have a programmer or do not want to deal with the programming, servers, networking side of the business.
- Have a good supply of talent they can get to work on camera.
- Want to own their own site but either don't want to spend or don't have the tens or even hundreds of thousands needed to build one right.
- They want to focus only on traffic and managing their talent and nothing else.


Unfortunately for him it sounds like he just gets a bunch of idiots noobs that have no clue what they are doing and not many (or any) people who would be a much much better fit for his software / services. If I was him I wouldn't sell to 1/2 of you. I would have to set some min entry level. But he likely doesn't turn anyone away who is willing to spend. The truth is 95% of you will fail, not because of Mark's software but because of you. The mentality of the person who jumps in from day thinking how they need to start with their own cam site vs learning is a mindset of someone who is going to fail almost all the time, no matter who's software you are using.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1c6uKfrEfj...e_facepalm.jpg

" a real cam solution" You would seriously try to start a business (spend money on design, advertising, recruiting models, setting up processing, etc and launching a business around a $269 cam script and then call it a "real solution".

Words can not express, i'm speech less.



Mark, honest question.... Is it really worth the head ache dealing with all of this? Wouldn't it be better to just limit the people you license to. if you license to every one who is new to this and has no clue you going to get more headaches like this then its worth.

Sorry Will, you have never had to deal with the convoluted dynamics so your statements lack any credibility. Believe me, these are rather intelligent people you so cavalierly insult. Most have learned a great deal and have moved onto successful ventures.

A large majority of the new site owners fail miserably with Mark?s program, and yet go on to design rather successful ventures. The only thing I would agree with is that the licenses should be sold to people who know more about the industry. It really sucks to drop $10,000.00 in a license and find out you really need a book of business to make it work. Personally, I don?t think Mark will change to whom he sells licenses to, but I doubt you were being serious when you made that statement anyway

Speaking for myself, I did not spend that kind of money most did. I did not expect riches overnight. I was and remain realistic about this venture, and I realize most sites fail or make a minimal profit. I never stopped trying regardless of what Mark says. I worked with Greg on Google Analytics, changed my adverting campaigns constantly and made structural changes to the different levels of my site. I will continue on with a platform perhaps more appropriate for me. The best lesson we can learn is where we belong- we all have different levels of expertise. My concern was that too many people are failing , and I don?t believe you can lay he blame solely on them as you seem to do.

I did not leave because I was not making a profit- I left because I realized that after two years that it would be unlikely to ever make a profit. I guess you can say I was ?cutting my loses?.

Your use of the Face Palm images is eerily familiar with Mark?s btw. He uses the same exact images.

mmm'ok. I lack credibility. You right, the noobs that failed with 2much media have more credibility than someone like me. What was i thinking. I don't know anything about cam sites or what 2Much media offers. :upsidedow

And so does half the internet when dealing with people who completely don't understand what they are talking about and have it all wrong.

You have no idea how clueless you sound. and you never will, so don't worry about it.

i like cookies

God, I admire you! You must know so much about the web business with so many years of experience. You are certainly no noob, and were smart enough not to buy a 2much license like we all did! I tried and tried again to find examples of your fine work online that I can learn from using your contact info, and all I was able to find was yadoggy.com with a 0 Alexa. I am sure I missed all your successful sites with the huge traffic and sales, could you please help me learn by posting some of them here... I'm tired of being a noob and want to learn from pros like you.

You have a day job, don't you, Will?

so you are saying you just paid for the fun of it :thumbsup:1orglaugh

Will, I don't know you and you don't know any of us. I did not activate this post, to get into a pissing contest with you. Please read my prior post- it stated simply that unless you had similar experiences the credibility of your statements was brought into question. It had nothing to do with your level of expertise. Please try to absorb the entire post before you sling personal insults.

So anyway, now that you have mentioned that all of us are stupid noobs perhaps you can share with us some of your accomplishments.

I've never made any money online, and I don't know anything. Does that make you feel better?

FYI, if you actually want to learn something it is easier to listen to the advice the people are giving you instead of wasting time trying to find example of sites they own. I own literally 1000s of sites. Good luck wasting your time and learning noting from it.

Now i need to get back to my day job.

Don't listen to anything I have told you in this thread. I talk out my ass. I have no idea what I am saying. You are doing great, keep doing what you are doing and I am sure you will find a lot of success in very near future.

Let me jump in, I use to have a cam site back in days that I sold but when it was time to make a decision about the software etc we went visit 2much at their office downtown in old montreal if I clearly remember. What I can say is that the whole concept is really nice but we found something wrong with it but couldnt point it. So we decided to go with another solutions. That was 5 year ago.... What I can say is:

-I'm really surprised that they still have ONLY 2-3 models online at same time.
-Nobody posting REAL success story (success story mean site with more than few people on)

There's site that grow up much faster and they are still new in the business (MFC in example).

On the other end it's true that having a full solutions cam site is not for everyone. Whitelabel is a good way to start (or a good way to avoid recurring issues with the models etc). So if they should screen their client? Maybe... but it's their business so let them run in the way they want but at same time this product seem not going on top after all thoses years.

My :2 cents:

gawd you are obnoxious.

Good morning, Will76! :)

Of course it would be...

We always refuse some potential customers. For example, we get calls from people who I think may have no Internet business sense at all. They see only "girls, limos, cash", talk like Players, etc.

However, I am beginning to think of MBASE itself is worth the headache. (MBase is the program that lets site owners buy and sell live content to other sites). It is a good feature for sure, but our customers have to depend on each other to use it to to make it work. Our demo site, LiveCamNetwork.com uses mbase and has some traffic, but Frottage became dependant on it which itself created alot of problems for us.

Big sigh.

You still own your license.