It's not that I personally have a problem with EU girls. The problem was with their sales on LiveCamNetwork.com where they simply did not convert. In fact, many of our end users complained about them. We were fair and gave (and continue to give) every EU girl a chance.

LiveCamNetwork.com also did not purchase traffic that was suitable for EU girls, but then again it was not our responsibility to promote your models. Our #1 responsibility is to the support of our software.

If you consider EU girls to be a niche (like "Russian Brides" for example) and you advertise properly to attract customers in that niche, then it should work.



If this was true then sites like Daddylive and southern charms would not be still running our software. We do not care what types of chat models you have on your OWN site, but we reserve the right as we have always done to pick and choose who we want to keep on LiveCamNetwork.com. After all, we spend money to promote it. Why shouldn't we make sure we use only good converting models?


I am sorry you feel this way LiveCamMD but I urge you to reconsider everything I have said. If you would like to talk us voice we are more than willing to listen to your concerns.

Regards,
Mark Prince

Paulus,

All that I ask is that you allow us 24 hours to recover your account details. If money is owed to you we certainly have no problem paying it. If your last day was August 20th 2010, that would mean that any "Returning Holdbacks" would have been applied to your account as of Monday Feb 20th 2011 (6 months later) which means, that this money would now appear in your account.

Please contact me at http://www.2much.net/contact.php right away because our next payout date is today.

Regards,

Sorry Mark- this has been asked and answered too many times. All the answers you need are in my posts. This will be my last post unless of course you break your promise and do not pay.I willl check with my bank on Friday.

Good luck to you , and if Greg is following this thread know I have only the highest regards for you. Over and out,

Steve

Frottage / Steve: Why did you try to steal end users from our customers using mbase?
Why did you encourage your models to help you?

Do you really blame us for suspending your license?

Come on Steve, answer.

I have just sent you an email to your support addy reading

Hi Mark,

With reference to your post on GFY stating that all monies will be paid to me.

Once you have recovered my account details you will see an outstanding balance i.e. you owe me $588.78 plus as you state any hold backs.

I expect to receive the cheque within 14 days of today because it is already 6 months late. please notify me the final amount you owe me via email.

Paul Hudson.


I do hope you are going to suprise me by paying this amount as you have failed to thus far. Please confirm your reciept of my email as the last time we communicated you said you would block my email address.

Hi Paulus,

I already replied to your email and asked you to call me. As I said in my previous post I have to allow accounting to get back to me with your account details (Actual amount owed, details of returning holdbacks, any other costs or credits, etc). It may be more or less than you are saying it is and I can't know for sure until then.

No I shall not be calling you. I have stated 14 days, this is more than enough time for you to send and me recieve a cheque after you ascertain the outstanding balance which cannot obviously be below the balance I have already stated for numerous reasons all of which will become apparent if you still fail to pay what you owe me.

I think i am being reasonable especialy after your own Legal counsil advised you to pay, Oh and I still have the email I was copied into between you and your lawyer.

I trust we will have no more to say regarding this matter once I am in reciept of the correct amount..

I will get back to you.

Hello Paul,

On August 31st, you were owed $571.35, not $585.00.

In September your account was charged -$75.25 for left over hosting, mbase and other fees associated with your account. Your account was also charged for an outstanding debt due to a studio account of -$207.20.

On October 6th check # 312 of $288.90 USD was issued to you at your address: 2------, Birminghamg, West Midlands, --------. We have contacted our bank and asked them to verify if and when this check has cleared.

Moving forward, I would like to present an idea. I don't think you took much advantage of the studio account, therefore I will credit the $207.20 in charges and issue a payment for this shortly.

Is this to your satisfaction?


Regards,
Mark Prince
http://www.2Much.net

Mark

I mailed you in August, Sept and October regarding outstanding monies to no avail, and told you no payment had been recieved, oh well!

I make that $288.90 Plus $207.20 Plus any hold back returns up to and including the 20th of this month, so that is a minimum of $495.10 + holdbacks, this amount is still short, having said that I really cant be bothereed to argue the toss anymore.

So I shall expect this payment of a minmum of $495.10 asap then our business is concluded.

Paulus:

You made a mistake. The total would be $496.10, not $495.10. I also said that this does not include returning holdbacks. I said that this was your balance as of August 31st 2010.

And as I already stated, we are waiting for confirmation from our bank to see if your check has cleared or not. If it has not cleared we will place a stop payment on it and issued a new one. However before I do this I would like you to please email me your address. Your last known address according to our files is 2 / 28 xxxx .... I await your email.

Hi PussyMaster,

Thanks for your interest, I will drop you a line the moment its finished or very close to completion.

Paulus, believe it or not we can refer customers to you. As you know, our system is very expensive for newbies but if you have a low cost system or free script or whatever it is that you are working on, I have no problem referring potential customers who may be looking for "white label", free or lower-cost solutions your way. We have already reffered some people to companies such as Video Secrets, so if this helps calm the waters, I am more than happy to do so.

I have just mailed you and confirmed my full postal address.

Mark

Let us conclude this existing business before we move potentialy move forward, having said that I thank you for your interest..

Received, and confirmation sent. Thank you.

My pleasure.

I have to be honest, after finally seeing the chat logs it really doesn't amount to much more than petty bullshit between cam girls. I think you were better off not posting them.

I can see Jasmine trying to get customers off LCN and signed up through LCCG to be a problem, but it's not as if these customers were being referred to something outside your network and it also doesn't seem to be at Frottage's benefit to have them do this since he's coming out of pocket on these sign ups which he already could be earning commission on through LCN. Am I understanding that right?

Sometimes people can be petty, employees and models alike. It sucks- no one likes it, but that looks like that's all this amounts to, mountains out of mole hills. I'm not saying that this is ideal cam girl behavior, but surely in the course of running your operations this can't be too far away from what you've dealt with in the past from other girls before. It's not like multiple girls that work through Frottage were doing this, just one girl who seems to be wrought with issues. She's not trying to make Frottage more money, she's trying to make more money for herself.

It's a bummer business between the two of you didn't work out, but Mark- his original post wasn't that negative. I don't think dropping the chat logs were necessary or had your intended effect :2cents

Hi Shelly,


Yes for the most part you are right, but the problems that it created (and could have created) were big.

- The customers were acquired by each website via normal, "legal" promotional efforts as any other webmaster would. Had we let this go on, it would have ruined what we are trying to build.

- A couple of customers and at least one "whale", legally attracted by advertising to one of our customers websites, stopped spending money on the original site, and started spending it on LCCG instead. This resulted in losses to one website and "illegal" gains to LCCG. While it remained in our network isn't the point.


That is exactly right. These customers were already spending money on his girls, via other sites.

The money flow looks like this :

Customer$ ===> Website X ===> LCCG ----> His Model.

What Frottage did was cut "website X out" so that the money flow worked like this instead:

Customer$ ====>LCCG ----> His Model.

He essentially tried to cut "affiliate" websites out of the picture, completely dismissing the value of their own traffic and the money, time and energy those site owners spent in attracting those customers in the first place.

(What is more than sad in this is that each customer he acquired cost his $20.00 each. He could have got the same results from Google Adwords and EroAdvertising for a much lower CPA, and done so without causing so many problems. )


You are correct, except that:
- She is not the only model that was caught doing this
- Steve new it was going on, because he manually added funds to each new acquisition. The basic pitch to existing customers on existing websites was "Switch to LCCG and we'll give you $20.00 free!. The models reeled them in, and he funded the accounts.



I will agree with you that this is a serious bummer. While his post wasn't that negative he knew full well what he did. Frottage's post was a continuation from 2 other forums which he has already been banned from. He is trying his best to drum up some kind of support without offering full disclosure.

Thanks for your comments, Shellee.

Mark

Sorry but just wondering... you dont have anybody on site doing some accounting and check your bank account? So you send checks and don't know how many of them you have in circulation?

Personnally for my business I have someone onsite checking bank account twice a week. So it's look like that if someone try to pass a fraudulent check or direct debit into your account your wouldnt know.

:2 cents:

I have full time support and fraud monitoring 247 and never less than 6 people monitoring at at any time. There is so much in this thread that I just do not understand and there seems to be at least one maybe more Neros fiddling.

Yes we do. Her name is Tracy and this is what she is checking into right now. She was not available this afternoon when I wrote this.

ty Shelly, I could not have said it better
Steve

So why did you steal, frottage?

think of all the valuable internet you have waste with this thread

I doubt anyone running a cam site sees that as anything other than normal "shit that happens" day to day. If thats it and you see it as stealing you will drive yourself nutz if you get more models. My data logs spit out an amazing list of things to deal with.

Just as a matter of interest....I have been trying to find a site doing well with this software.... is there one and what is it?

Our own demo site, LiveCamNetwork.com, did $22,945 in retail sales in January, not counting mbase. I know the kings like MFC probably do 10 times more than this. Smart cookies.

I'd be pissed if I was one of the other sites in Mark's network that sent the customer in and was making money from it just to have a chathost/another owner steal the customer and cut me out of the picture so they could make more of the money.

Most owners wouldn't care because in this case Mark still makes the same. However, even though he makes the same he was trying to protect his other clients.

So just because you and other people want to dismiss those type of activities as "oh well shit happens" why don't you cut the person who is trying to run a tight ship some slack for doing the right thing and trying police his site the way other cam sites should be doing.

Your probably right and we do talk to owners of studios doing things like that but if I considered that stealing and cut peoples licenses up then I would probably have 4 models online instead of 1087 at the moment. There is no "owners manual" or guide book to running a cam site but I have always found it better to educate and work with studios rather than exterminate.

Your position is obvious and I admire you want to help your friend but at first look his software is superior to most I have seen with the exception being MFC. So why doesnt he have more studios running white labels (sorry thats about what they are) than he has? The next question is why so many conflicts between him and his licensees..... and I all I ask is show me 1 site doing well. His annual figure now changed to january of $22,945 isnt exactly getting me there. I would call that a bad day on 1 domain.

How can superior (at this point) software deliver low sales and angry people.

I am tired of this never ending post, but since you are casting doubt on my integrity I will answer one last time. Nobody stole your customers. Most of those people were prospective customers Jasmine secured through her blogs on different social networks. Jasmine was told by me to never solicit a customer from LCN or any sister sites period. Also one of your customers was so upset after the fiasco in Montreal he came over on his own volition. A few other customer came over because they logged in her blog which of course had the name of my site. I have never and would never steal a customer.

Now for your accusations that I was cheating other site owners. Let me remind you who created the "Book A Show" concept- me. I am amazed that after 12 years in business you did not have this function. Anyway, I worked with Greg on this, and anytime someone wanted to chat with a girl, any girl on the network, this function was activated if the girl was not online. Now the customer could do two things: either continue on to the main site page or book a show with the girl. The emails came to me, and what did this low-life model stealer do Mark? I took my time and copied the request for shows, logged into your admin BBS and went to the thread I created and shared the information with all the site owners. Does that sound like I intended to steal any of your customers?

You allude to my being banned on boards- where was I ever banned on a board like this?

Now please wire me the damn money ,and get back go work on our own site. I have a new partner with whom I enjoy working and this is becoming annoying.

One last thing.I did pay new customers that Jasmin secured from the social networks $20.00. I don't see this as a mistake! To secure a customer who is already into a model for $20.00 makes sense to me, and you agreed it was good marketing when we discussed this

If you say this one more time I will write you a prescription- you are perseverating.

I don't know if we are friends but I respect him anyway. We have had .. differences... on other boards in the past. :)

Thank you.

I wouldn't call it a white label for several reasons. However, I do wish that we had a white label that we could give away for free. I would consider this a major goof on our part. I recently gave the mandate to our programmers to build a pure white-lable version of LiveCamNetwork but it's easily 3-4 months away at least.

Sorry, I ran out of time.

LiveCamNetwork.com's gross retail minutes sold for 2010 were $257.640.60 , not including sales to mbase. Our gross retail minutes sold for January 2011 was $22,945.40.

[/quote]

That's my point. It's not the software, it's how its used. The best way to imagine LiveCamNetwork software is as if it were a "Streaming video accounting system". All it can do, is produce numbers based on what is streamed through it, and how many people pay to consume the streams. Nothing more.

Frottage / Steve: You came to this forum complaining about me, my company and my software and threw up some nasty comments and lies. I answered your challenges and now I am asking you again. If you can't answer the question then you should refrain from posting any more comments.

[QUOTE=**********;17936970]Why Steve? What are you hiding?[/Quote Read the post already- I am done mark- over and out!!

If nobody is making a success using it I can only assume one of two things
1/. You are not educating them. If you are selling a franchise then go write a manual on how to follow the path.
or

2/. The costs, charges, rules, more costs give them little chance or hope.

Anyway...had to ask but I would have to say based on numbers complaining and total lack of any site , thats not yours, doing well I just dont see what they are paying for. They can set up a white label AWE or similar.....run their own models and have their affiliate tag on the site....no license fee and doesnt that achieve the same result without all the drama, cost and time.....because thats about all I see here.

Run, forest!

http://www.gofuckyourself.net/showpo...45&postcount=4

Click the above link to see The Great Will76 promoting 2Much.net without ever buying Mark's license. Nah, no conflict of interest there, Will76 isn't Mark's paid hack at all. He is just here to help educate us, for the good of the community. Thank you for your charity and thoughtfulness, Will!

You exaggerate, 99.9% of models (only 4 out of 1087) don't try to steal from the cam site they are working on. Although, not to sound crude, but your site is all asians so maybe the percentage is a higher amount with that ethnic group.

Mark is not my friend. I have never met him nor done business with him and I am pretty sure I have pissed him off a few times. I have no dogs in this fight I just call it like I see it and use common sense and experience. I looked at his software 4 years ago pretty thoroughly and decided it wasn't for me.

Just a white label? What he offers is much more than a white label *IF* the person using it actually takes advantages of the features. All A white label is the parent company's cam site with your name slapped on top and some different colors, on your domain. Period. With Mark's solution you can control and manage your own chat host. Your chat host cam make money from other people in the network not just your traffic. If are trying to start your own cam site but don't have the hundreds of thousands to hire programmers buy lots of expensive hardware etc... then you can start small with his solution and still have your own cam site. If you only have a few chat host starting off, when yours are offline there is always others on, so your site never goes with out having chat host live. Something that you would fighting if you started your own cam site with a $269 script :1orglaugh You can also have your own merchant account with his solution vs a white label.

Now if someone pays all of the license fees and monthly charges and doesn't put any chat host online and doesn't make many or any sales, then yeah it is just a white label TO THEM because they aren't using all of the functions it offers. Those people should have done a white label from the start but it is their own damn faults.

You asked a two part question " How can superior (at this point) software deliver low sales and angry people. "

Angry people: They are angry because they purchased something that they thought they wanted but come to find out it didn't fit their needs. This was their own damn fault for not knowing what THEY needed.

You might be able to understand it better this way. If 100 people go get a white label site, lets say 95 will still fail. Why? because they didn't generate traffic and make sales, their work ethic sucked, or maybe they just sucked all together.. it happens ALL THE TIME. Do you ever hear those 95 people crying on GFY... maybe a few but hardly ever do you hear any of the affiliates who used a white label cry because they didnt make lots of money and quit... Take the same people that were going to fail no matter what (have no concept of running a business much less the ability to generate traffic and make sales) and now have them shell out a couple thousand dollars to get started plus monthly fees. 95% of them are going to be pissed when they fail. They not only failed but it cost them money to fail and while they were failing they were paying monthly fees. They then feel like they were scammed. Failures blame everyone else, never themselves. I can't learn from your mistakes if you think you never did anything wrong.

Why isn't mark doing better with a superior product? Because there is A LOT more to a successful cam business than the software platform. Software is just one small component. What is more important is traffic (sales) and chat host and the perfect harmony you need from both of them. Mark's site has never had more than 4-5 girls on it on avg. How does the site make money?? from cam sales. When you only have a couple chat host on it stifles sales because the selection is terrible. I would rather choose from 100 chat host than 5. If I don't like those 5 chat host I leave. Also only having 5 online makes a site look dead. You can only collect so much in sales when you just have a couple girls working at a time .

Now at the same time, quality is much much better than quantity, but you really need both to be successful. The lion share of any cam sites sales will come from its whales. The 10% of customers who will spend 90% of the sales. In order to get whales you need a lot of quality chat host that are pros and can turn the customers into whales and make them fall in love with them (retain them). It's tough to do that when you have 4-5 chat host on. Whales might land on his site all the time, not see a chat host they like and they are off to the next site. He needs a bigger net to catch them and keep them.

You are a complete fucking moron. I am not endorsing or promoting them. I just told someone to check them out. I also gave them word of caution. Not only are you a complete failure for not listening to people and learning from other, more successful people but you spend all day trying to find *shit* on people so you can try to justify in your head that the everyone else must be failures too.

How you like these apples? I've generated over 150,000 credit card joins to just clickcash in the last 10 years and grossed several million in sales. So you can go dig up some old posts I made or a website I had a programmer toss together 3 years ago that I thought out while I was taking a crap and never did anything with it and point to that with your "haha! you don't know anything " comments and keep making your failure self feeling better if that floats your boat. If you had an ounce of fucking intelligence you would be trying to learn from others not try to discredit them because your idiotic brain doesn't like the honest truth they are telling you. '

Now kindly fuck off, you are going on ignore. I am an idiot for wasting 5 mins of my time on your pathetic ass.

And you call that great success? In 10 years? :1orglaugh

That's why you were holding up a Will Work For Food sign here after being banned for shooting your mouth off like you're doing now: http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/919450-will76-post-looking-hire.html

No, you don't know Mark, and he's not paying you to post this nonsense!

Thanks for teaching me about cam sites. I built and own the one with all the Asians on it and pretty much you are clueless.