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-   -   Could this become a serious adult industry legal concern? (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=840591)

AaronM 07-10-2008 06:41 PM
Could this become a serious adult industry legal concern?
 
I'm honestly a bit concerned with the actions of a certain adult industry attorney and I'm wondering if anybody else feels the same.

As we all know, the outcome of legal battles is often influenced by past legal battles of either identical or similar characteristics. When there are convictions, those convictions may set precedent for future trials.

With that said......

A well known adult industry attorney has handled at least 4 fairly high profile cases in the recent past. Each of those 4 cases was plead guilty. One can't help but wonder why this attorney keeps going down this path and continuously establishing convictions without trial.

If this were a common practice among all of the adult industry lawyers then I might not think as much of it....But, I see other attorneys winning some of their cases, albeit after long trials and such but hey......At least they are fighting for their clients.

Feel free to discuss.

bringer 07-10-2008 06:43 PM
isnt the plea ultimately up to the client?

tony286 07-10-2008 06:44 PM
My big thought is why do people keep hiring this person?

Chris 07-10-2008 06:44 PM
good point you brought up

im sure these cases will screw soemone else in the future :/

AaronM 07-10-2008 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bringer (Post 14446587)
isnt the plea ultimately up to the client?

Sure it is, but clients look to their attorneys for guidance. Not many clients get a lawyer and tell them they need their help to plead guilty.


Tony, that's one of my questions as well. Perhaps people are not aware of this track record?

tony286 07-10-2008 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bringer (Post 14446587)
isnt the plea ultimately up to the client?
It is and it isn't. If the lawyer says to you,You want to fight great it's going to look like a long fight. So Im going to need 100k upfront or plead guilty and we can get it reduced. This will cost alot less. Now you aren't rich what do you choose?

tony286 07-10-2008 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 14446598)
Sure it is, but clients look to their attorneys for guidance. Not many clients get a lawyer and tell them they need their help to plead guilty.


Tony, that's one of my questions as well. Perhaps people are not aware of this track record?
It could be that,they don't follow this stuff til it affects them. They remember a name and go with it.

czarina 07-10-2008 06:49 PM
attorneys make more money when their clients plea guilty, because they dont have to prepare themselves for the case or fight it. That's pretty lame, but it's the sad truth.

baddog 07-10-2008 06:50 PM
Sometimes it is in the defendant's best interest to just cop a plea. No attorney has thre right to cop a plea for their client and they just do what is in the best interest of the client.

I am sure most attorneys, if just going for the cash would urge the client to turn it down, but that isn't what representation is about.

gne112 07-10-2008 06:53 PM
pleading guilty avoid the gamble of going in front of a judge.

Deej 07-10-2008 06:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bringer (Post 14446587)
isnt the plea ultimately up to the client?
right, but people get attorneys to seek advice and influencing moves...

have you ever went through the process?

bringer 07-10-2008 06:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 14446598)
Sure it is, but clients look to their attorneys for guidance. Not many clients get a lawyer and tell them they need their help to plead guilty.


Tony, that's one of my questions as well. Perhaps people are not aware of this track record?
maybe he's good at getting the plea deal down to an acceptable level for his clients? why is it the lawyers fault when his client could just fire his ass and pay someone else to fight? one would think the lawyer would rather spend years fighting at his clients expense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 14446601)
It is and it isn't. If the lawyer says to you,You want to fight great it's going to look like a long fight. So Im going to need 100k upfront or plead guilty and we can get it reduced. This will cost alot less. Now you aren't rich what do you choose?
so its the lawyers fault for being honest with his client? im still not getting it...

bringer 07-10-2008 06:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deej (Post 14446618)
right, but people get attorneys to seek advice and influencing moves...

have you ever went through the process?
ive been in this very situation. i fired the lawyer who basicly told me it was a battle i couldnt win. his replacement got the job done and i dont have a conviction on my record. just because you're paying someone for advice doesnt mean what they tell you is correct or the only path you can choose.

Thurbs 07-10-2008 06:57 PM
what I don't fully understand, is why are people with some amount of money, rushing to lawyers that specialize in adult?

not that many cases as you have said, have gone that well, and who are these lawyers? what is their real experience? are they litigators that help with things like contracts / acquisitions? or is this just some ease of use, where people don't want to search for or pay for lawyers that aren't availalbe on GFY / Google under "Adult Industry Lawyer"

if first year lawyers can tackle business suits with years of precedents to go over, areas of info that requires market research, etc. one would assume you might want to seek some really good counsel outside of the industry

but you're right Aaron, it is a concern, b/c in legal matters, alot of rulings and prosecution cases are based on those past precedents, and we've had alot of losses recently

DamageX 07-10-2008 06:57 PM
What if they were guilty?

Domain Diva 07-10-2008 07:01 PM
so whos the attorney Aaron ?

Deej 07-10-2008 07:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamageX (Post 14446632)
What if they were guilty?
Thats just not possible :1orglaugh:thumbsup

AaronM 07-10-2008 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamageX (Post 14446632)
What if they were guilty?


Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

tony286 07-10-2008 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bringer (Post 14446622)
maybe he's good at getting the plea deal down to an acceptable level for his clients? why is it the lawyers fault when his client could just fire his ass and pay someone else to fight? one would think the lawyer would rather spend years fighting at his clients expense.



so its the lawyers fault for being honest with his client? im still not getting it...
An example I met with a adult attorney, he told me if you are my client and shit happens. I will defend you, we will figure out the money. I wont leave you hanging. So with him I would owe him for the rest of my life but he would defend me.Where someone else could say I need every dime upfront or I go no further pleading guilty is your best bet. Now in both of the cases its their right but a attorney is judged by his track record.

I quote the movie the verdict "We aren't paid to do our best, we are paid to win."

AaronM 07-10-2008 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Promo Claire (Post 14446640)
so whos the attorney Aaron ?

If you really cared then you would already know the answer to that.

marketsmart 07-10-2008 07:12 PM
yawn.... ok here's the short answer... when you get hit on federal cases, they throw any charge they can think of at you and usually multiple counts of the same offense..

add those charges up and usually you are looking at 20-100 years in prison.. now, a federal prosecutor offers up a deal, plead guilty and do 3-5 or roll the dice..

any attorney worth his weight is going to tell you the risks of going to trial.. you can lose and if you lose, you can forget about getting offered a deal again..

so thats the short answer...

tony286 07-10-2008 07:13 PM
The funny thing is the biggest win this industry has had was 2257 being throw out in that one district wasn't by one adult lawyers we hear and read about all the time.

AaronM 07-10-2008 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marketsmart (Post 14446662)
yawn.... ok here's the short answer... when you get hit on federal cases, they throw any charge they can think of at you and usually multiple counts of the same offense..

add those charges up and usually you are looking at 20-100 years in prison.. now, a federal prosecutor offers up a deal, plead guilty and do 3-5 or roll the dice..

any attorney worth his weight is going to tell you the risks of going to trial.. you can lose and if you lose, you can forget about getting offered a deal again..

so thats the short answer...
I don't recall asking any questions.

Pleasurepays 07-10-2008 07:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 14446669)
I don't recall asking any questions.

:upsidedow:upsidedow

marketsmart 07-10-2008 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 14446669)
I don't recall asking any questions.
glad to help set things straight then.. and i except your apology... :thumbsup

WiredGuy 07-10-2008 07:19 PM
What type of cases are we talking here, obsenity, criminal, civil?
WG

sortie 07-10-2008 07:20 PM
Where is the proof that the attorney didn't actually save their asses from certain convictions with stiffer penalties?

I mean, if they were going into the case with some skeleton that was mildly related it might blind the jury enough to convict without evidence. That then sets a precedent to other courts that they can convict on that amount of evidence. In other words, their guilty pleas might actually be saving everyone else's ass.

But, I don't know those facts. I'm just saying that the facts are not clear from this post.

Domain Diva 07-10-2008 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 14446656)
If you really cared then you would already know the answer to that.

Of course l dont care im happy with my attorney,it was you who made the post and mentioned it maybe a concern to the industry now others have to go look up the name l guess :(


Just post it or icq me if you dont have the balls and let a girl do it for you.


Its annoying when posters go I know a scammer but I will not name them ,I got a bounced check and im owed 6 months income but l dont want to say who it is.

Help the industry dont worry, posting a lawyer thats lost cases will not get you in trouble if its the truth so name them or icq me maybe if this industry starts to work and share info it might help you all. :thumbsup


Im actually starting to think the unthinkable and think Dirty F maybe my hero gawddddddddd

Spike D 07-10-2008 07:23 PM
Although the trends of late have been decidely negative, there are a couple rays of hope. The Maxhardcore case will most likely be overturned on appeal, and in the Ray Guhn case, unless I am looking at the wrong info, they never pleaded guilty to obscenity. He pled to a single count of participating in an unlawful financial transaction - money laundering. The DA will count that for a win against "obscenity" but any future legal precedent would not be helpful in another obscenity case. But the success rate is of late should be a concern to everyone..

The lawyers names are easily found as AM said..

I only play a lawyer on message boards...:1orglaugh

bringer 07-10-2008 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamageX (Post 14446632)
What if they were guilty?
why does that matter? the concerns expressed in this thread are less about the individual clients who plead guilty and more about how it affects everyone else. its their fault precedence now exists that can be used against us all because they were unwilling to fund a lengthy court battle against a corrupt government with limitless resources. instead of pleading guilty, which most posting in this thread would have done, those assholes should of sold everything they own to help OUR cause. right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 14446645)
An example I met with a adult attorney, he told me if you are my client and shit happens. I will defend you, we will figure out the money. I wont leave you hanging. So with him I would owe him for the rest of my life but he would defend me.Where someone else could say I need every dime upfront or I go no further pleading guilty is your best bet. Now in both of the cases its their right but a attorney is judged by his track record.

I quote the movie the verdict "We aren't paid to do our best, we are paid to win."
as i said in a previous post, ive dealt with a lawyer who obviously wasnt qualified to represent me but still wanted my money to plea. i found someone else who could do the job and it was done right. why not blame the clients for accepting this lawyers advice instead of getting a second opinion? or a 5th? 10th? i know if i were in the position these people were in id call every lawyer i could find until i found the one that was qualified to HELP ME protect MY RIGHTS.

Spike D 07-10-2008 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Promo Claire (Post 14446714)
Of course l dont care im happy with my attorney,it was you who made the post and mentioned it maybe a concern to the industry now others have to go look up the name l guess :(


Just post it or icq me if you dont have the balls and let a girl do it for you.
I think his point was that anyone with a true concern with this issue would already know who the lawyers were....

tony286 07-10-2008 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bringer (Post 14446722)
why does that matter? the concerns expressed in this thread are less about the individual clients who plead guilty and more about how it affects everyone else. its their fault precedence now exists that can be used against us all because they were unwilling to fund a lengthy court battle against a corrupt government with limitless resources. instead of pleading guilty, which most posting in this thread would have done, those assholes should of sold everything they own to help OUR cause. right?



as i said in a previous post, ive dealt with a lawyer who obviously wasnt qualified to represent me but still wanted my money to plea. i found someone else who could do the job and it was done right. why not blame the clients for accepting this lawyers advice instead of getting a second opinion? or a 5th? 10th? i know if i were in the position these people were in id call every lawyer i could find until i found the one that was qualified to HELP ME protect MY RIGHTS.
You have a good point.

Domain Diva 07-10-2008 07:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike D (Post 14446725)
I think his point was that anyone with a true concern with this issue would already know who the lawyers were....
yes I agree Spike but to save those who are just reading and having to do the research why dont people just give the whole picture including names (its the names that I find lacking)

Im not really picking on Aaron it just seems a gfy trend in general.


Urgent Release ;

A major player has not paid me for 6 months do a search on gfy and im sure you will get the idea of who it is?

Im not asking for people to just throw names out at random for every little instance as that can lead to possible lawsuits but at times I see established posters with major issues afraid to name names and that trend is unhealthy and of no benefit to the industry.


Guess now I will go look up the name just in case I may think of using them in the future as a second law firm as the info wasnt in this thread :thumbsup

pocketkangaroo 07-10-2008 07:42 PM
It certainly sets a bad precedent. I would think a lawyer advertising himself as a champion of the first amendment would not be so keen on taking cases that are going to be pleaded out. I of course am not in the shoes of the people who are being tried, so it's hard to say that they should let them play out. The pleas may have honestly been in the best interest of the client.

But if I was arrested for obscenity, I'm going to try and hire a guy who has actually won cases.

Domain Diva 07-10-2008 07:43 PM
I see Max Hardcore had Attorney Jeffrey Douglas or so it seems is this the guy ?

pocketkangaroo 07-10-2008 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Promo Claire (Post 14446754)
yes I agree Spike but to save those who are just reading and having to do the research why dont people just give the whole picture including names (its the names that I find lacking)

Im not really picking on Aaron it just seems a gfy trend in general.


Urgent Release ;

A major player has not paid me for 6 months do a search on gfy and im sure you will get the idea of who it is?

Im not asking for people to just throw names out at random for every little instance as that can lead to possible lawsuits but at times I see established posters with major issues afraid to name names and that trend is unhealthy and of no benefit to the industry.


Guess now I will go look up the name just in case I may think of using them in the future as a second law firm as the info wasnt in this thread :thumbsup
Honestly it takes a couple minutes to Google and read up about all this. If you don't know who he is talking about, you don't follow the industry that closely. I don't see why he should have to spend the time educating everyone on the board about who the attorney is. Anyone in his position (content producer) knows who it is and has much more at stake.

pussyserver - BANNED FOR LIFE 07-10-2008 07:45 PM
you should be concerned

:2 cents:

His concern is valid and exact

I wish I could comment more :( but this fuckin place is full of loonies and its hard to help anyone with them around

Domain Diva 07-10-2008 07:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo (Post 14446791)
Honestly it takes a couple minutes to Google and read up about all this. If you don't know who he is talking about, you don't follow the industry that closely. I don't see why he should have to spend the time educating everyone on the board about who the attorney is. Anyone in his position (content producer) knows who it is and has much more at stake.
Thats the thing most read the headline do you know who Paris Hiltons lawyer was in her case ? No and most people dont.

Im just commenting if would be healthy if when a possible important industry post is made maybe all the info was in that post including the name its not time consuming it takes a few keystrokes more :thumbsup

DamageX 07-10-2008 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Promo Claire (Post 14446810)
Im just commenting if would be healthy if when a possible important industry post is made maybe all the info was in that post including the name its not time consuming it takes a few keystrokes more :thumbsup
Hun, please learn how to use punctuation. I read and re-read your post and I still have no fucking clue what you just said.

Domain Diva 07-10-2008 08:01 PM
ok so I guess maybe Max Hardcore wasnt high profile enough.

So now I have Lawrence G. Walters is that the guy ? well he represented Ray Guhn???


see how not naming names causes confusion I thought Max,s case was high profile


So have I hit the right name ?


Ps Im not joking on this subject


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