Damn...Our Health Insurance Just Increased 15%! - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

will76 · 01-03-2011, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

Succinctly stated.

I am constantly amazed by how few people, in the midst of all the partisan blustering, seem to get this.

I am amazed at all of the idiots who think that this would really be "FREE". Who do you think is going to pay for "FREE" health care??? Tax payers. Nothing Free. If anything, they would just continue to tax the shit out of the upper class to pay for another hand out for the people at the bottom.

AmeliaG · 01-03-2011, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

I am amazed at all of the idiots who think that this would really be "FREE". Who do you think is going to pay for "FREE" health care??? Tax payers. Nothing Free. If anything, they would just continue to tax the shit out of the upper class to pay for another hand out for the people at the bottom.

Anyone who thinks healthcare would ever be wholly free is either (a) a leech or (b) very very bad at basic math or (c) believes in magic and unicorns.

However, the problem is clearly that insurance is a for-profit business. If you add a middleman to any business endeavor, the cost goes up for the end user. This is one of the most basic principles of business.

If someone like Hank is being gouged for $18k a year, what would his medical costs be for a lifetime versus his insurance costs? Most of the time, the answer is that insurance costs more than healthcare. Some people may appreciate the peace of mind, knowing (or thinking they know) they will be covered, if catastrophe strikes. But that peace of mind comes at a price.

AmeliaG · 01-03-2011, 05:57 PM

I should add that the poor already do not pay for healthcare or health insurance. There were already programs for this.

What the new "healthcare" bill primarily does is subsidize the massive insurance industry, on the backs of small business and young people who are extremely unlikely to cost the insurance companies anything.

Yes, the provisions forcing insurance companies to accept people with pre-existing conditions will help a few people, but, on the overall, the insurance companies will make a much bigger profit.

woj · 01-03-2011, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

However, the problem is clearly that insurance is a for-profit business. If you add a middleman to any business endeavor, the cost goes up for the end user. This is one of the most basic principles of business.

but private companies run a tighter ship... it's probably not the best example, but it's one of the reasons why for example UPS turns a profit every year, while USPS has been losing money for ages...

Jim_Gunn · 01-03-2011, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank_Heartland

Can you choose your own doctor and go to any hosp with that plan?

I believe all HMO's require you to go to a doctor in their network by default, but I think there is also a way to file a claim for reimbursement if you go elsewhere. Is there any plan that lets you choose any doctor or hospital without discrimination? Luckily I haven't had to use mine much. The local walk-in clinic I go to on rare occassions when I am sick costs me only a $40 co-pay to see a doctor and I get decent discounts on medicines and dental work anywhere I want to purchase them.

AmeliaG · 01-03-2011, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

but private companies run a tighter ship... it's probably not the best example, but it's one of the reasons why for example UPS turns a profit every year, while USPS has been losing money for ages...

UPS and USPS are largely analogous, but going to the doctor and having health insurance are very different.

Health insurance is massively government-subsidized already. For example, buying health insurance is 100% deductible, but major healthcare expenses over 15% of income are only 50% deductible. Now, health insurance purchase will actually be mandated.

If every three years, a family member needs a $20,000 set of medical services, that might seem like a lot, but it is almost certainly less than insurance for that family.

I do think better education on how to get a doctor would be helpful. I come across plenty of models, for example, who would think nothing of buying a few hundred dollars worth of makeup, but who wouldn't have a clue how to get to a dermatologist who would be $150 for the office visit and $60 for a prescription, which would do more good than the makeup.

Better access to doctors, perhaps through clinics, perhaps through having urgent cares in more cities, those sorts of things would be good. But forcing me to buy a health insurance product I feel is a rip-off? That is bad.

the Shemp · 01-03-2011, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

but private companies run a tighter ship... it's probably not the best example, but it's one of the reasons why for example UPS turns a profit every year, while USPS has been losing money for ages...

UPS doesnt deliver letters for 44 cents ...

Vendzilla · 01-03-2011, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

UPS and USPS are largely analogous, but going to the doctor and having health insurance are very different.

Health insurance is massively government-subsidized already. For example, buying health insurance is 100% deductible, but major healthcare expenses over 15% of income are only 50% deductible. Now, health insurance purchase will actually be mandated.

If every three years, a family member needs a $20,000 set of medical services, that might seem like a lot, but it is almost certainly less than insurance for that family.

I do think better education on how to get a doctor would be helpful. I come across plenty of models, for example, who would think nothing of buying a few hundred dollars worth of makeup, but who wouldn't have a clue how to get to a dermatologist who would be $150 for the office visit and $60 for a prescription, which would do more good than the makeup.

Better access to doctors, perhaps through clinics, perhaps through having urgent cares in more cities, those sorts of things would be good. But forcing me to buy a health insurance product I feel is a rip-off? That is bad.

Problems with access to the right doctor in a city is one thing, but try it in a small town. Then get charged more than someone in a city.

VGeorgie · 01-03-2011, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Doctors aren't making as much money as you think they are making
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/...doctors/salary

Salaried MDs would be those working for HMOs or clinics. That list ignores the vast majority of doctors in this country who are private corporations, basically self-employed. They make A LOT more than this. (Many doctors who work at a hospital and draw a salary also have a private practice.)

But this is not how much money they make, but that getting your news from doctors who depend on government payment contracts probably isn't the best way to be informed.

baddog · 01-03-2011, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

Succinctly stated.

I am constantly amazed by how few people, in the midst of all the partisan blustering, seem to get this.

Sorry, but our country can not afford to provide free medical for 310,000,000 people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim_Gunn

I believe all HMO's require you to go to a doctor in their network by default, but I think there is also a way to file a claim for reimbursement if you go elsewhere. Is there any plan that lets you choose any doctor or hospital without discrimination? Luckily I haven't had to use mine much. The local walk-in clinic I go to on rare occassions when I am sick costs me only a $40 co-pay to see a doctor and I get decent discounts on medicines and dental work anywhere I want to purchase them.

PPO

Vendzilla · 01-03-2011, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VGeorgie

Salaried MDs would be those working for HMOs or clinics. That list ignores the vast majority of doctors in this country who are private corporations, basically self-employed. They make A LOT more than this. (Many doctors who work at a hospital and draw a salary also have a private practice.)

But this is not how much money they make, but that getting your news from doctors who depend on government payment contracts probably isn't the best way to be informed.

I don't have a problem with my doctor living well. But I do have a problem with the government getting involved. Doctors should run the medical industry, not lawyers.

AmeliaG · 01-03-2011, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Problems with access to the right doctor in a city is one thing, but try it in a small town. Then get charged more than someone in a city.

Very true. I think true healthcare initiatives would address that sort of issue and not just subsidize the already-bloated insurance industry.

AmeliaG · 01-03-2011, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Sorry, but our country can not afford to provide free medical for 310,000,000 people.

How is that a response to what I said?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

Anyone who thinks healthcare would ever be wholly free is either (a) a leech or (b) very very bad at basic math or (c) believes in magic and unicorns.

However, the problem is clearly that insurance is a for-profit business. If you add a middleman to any business endeavor, the cost goes up for the end user. This is one of the most basic principles of business.

If someone like Hank is being gouged for $18k a year, what would his medical costs be for a lifetime versus his insurance costs? Most of the time, the answer is that insurance costs more than healthcare. Some people may appreciate the peace of mind, knowing (or thinking they know) they will be covered, if catastrophe strikes. But that peace of mind comes at a price.

NetHorse · 01-03-2011, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Wow, what a lame come back.... For me to keep watching MSNBC, I would first need to know what channel it's on, then actually watch it. And to be a typical liberal, I would first need to be any kind of liberal, which is pretty hard when I'm not.

I blame the right wing media for spewing lies and missinfo; if it's related to Obama, the economy, the war, whatever it is - 90% of the twisted bullshit with half truths that YOU suck dry every chance you get is the issue at hand.

... anything else your cock holster would like to say?

If you want to dispute my arguments please do so like an intelligent human being and address each one specifically.

Simply saying it's all 'lies' and 'missinfo', (not even a real word joker) makes you sound like a child.

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

Who do you think is going to pay for "FREE" health care??? Tax payers. Nothing Free. If anything, they would just continue to tax the shit out of the upper class to pay for another hand out for the people at the bottom.

Exactly, just like people in Europe and Canada don't get anything for 'free'.

What are the gas prices like in Europe? 3-4 times what we pay, and why is that? TAX.

What about the price of cars? With all the taxes and fees the same cars we buy here cost 20-30% more in Europe.

Everything from buying milk at the store to paying your income taxes you pay for it. The money doesn't come from the sky.

Even in Canada, the value of a Canadian dollar is equal to ours, yet everything from a 12 pack of beer to a sandwich at Subway costs almost 15-20% more. Everything is taxed to compensate for government services that are "free".

Wiredoctor · 01-03-2011, 08:15 PM

We just got a 12% raise with no notice...argggg..

Trend · 01-03-2011, 09:00 PM

Can't we all just stick to porn?

PornoMonster · 01-03-2011, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiredoctor

We just got a 12% raise with no notice...argggg..

What % has it been all the other years???

The Demon · 01-03-2011, 09:12 PM

lol@the stupid liberals on this site.

Hank_Heartland · 01-03-2011, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid70

How big is the family?

That's just for me and the wife

Hank_Heartland · 01-03-2011, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim_Gunn

I believe all HMO's require you to go to a doctor in their network by default, but I think there is also a way to file a claim for reimbursement if you go elsewhere. Is there any plan that lets you choose any doctor or hospital without discrimination? Luckily I haven't had to use mine much. The local walk-in clinic I go to on rare occassions when I am sick costs me only a $40 co-pay to see a doctor and I get decent discounts on medicines and dental work anywhere I want to purchase them.

Our plan is a PPO very similar to yours with a $20 co-pay prescription drug plan as well but we can choose private doctors and hospitals of which most in the area are part of the plan.

12clicks · 01-03-2011, 10:30 PM

Vote for Barry, he promises you all you need without having to pay for it.

fatfoo · 01-03-2011, 10:39 PM

It's understandable how the insurance company makes money. Of course, the cash inflows have to be bigger than the cash outflows for the insurance company to be profitable. Overall, the insurance company collects more money than it gives out. People who have an illness shortly after signing up with the insurance company may receive more money from the insurance company than they gave the insurance company. People who have an illness very late in their lives may collect less money than they gave out. Being a doctor is a very responsible position. It is unfortunate if a doctor makes a mistake. The doctor has a strong duty to the patient. Good luck! Getting insured may help you achieve peace of mind. Some companies might require mandatory insurance in different areas such as: health insurance, rent insurance, car insurance and more.

will76 · 01-03-2011, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

Anyone who thinks healthcare would ever be wholly free is either (a) a leech or (b) very very bad at basic math or (c) believes in magic and unicorns.

However, the problem is clearly that insurance is a for-profit business. If you add a middleman to any business endeavor, the cost goes up for the end user. This is one of the most basic principles of business.

If someone like Hank is being gouged for $18k a year, what would his medical costs be for a lifetime versus his insurance costs? Most of the time, the answer is that insurance costs more than healthcare. Some people may appreciate the peace of mind, knowing (or thinking they know) they will be covered, if catastrophe strikes. But that peace of mind comes at a price.

You are actually wrong. There are health insurance companies that are mutual, non profit, the premiums are based on the amount of claims / class of risk you fall into. If the company does well (has low claims) they would reduce premiums.

Here is just one example of that:

Arkansas Blue Cross differs from commercial insurers in several ways. Arkansas Blue Cross is a not-for-profit, mutual insurance company. That means that nearly all the money we collect as premium is paid out in benefits for customers on the average, nearly 85 cents of every dollar. The remainder - about 15 cents of every dollar - is used for operating expenses and reserve funds, which we are required by law to maintain.

As a not-for-profit, mutual insurance company, Arkansas Blue Cross is owned by its policyholders, not by stockholders. This means that premium dollars are used solely to pay claims and administrative costs, not to pay stock dividends. Any excess funds are held in reserve for payment of future claims. Arkansas Blue Cross must maintain a fiscal balance between premium income and benefits paid to ensure that we have the ability to continue to offer these products and to pay policyholder claims in the future.

http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/heal...bcbs-arkansas/

mutual company = policy holders | for profit company = shareholders.

What makes insurance expensive... mostly people who neglect their health. People who over eat and are obese, people who smoke 3 packs a day and get cancer, people who don't do preventive things like get a mammogram and catch something early (and cheaply). People using their insurance run up the costs for everyone else. Other part of the problem is hospitals charging you an arm and leg for everything, running you threw more tests than you need but that has a lot to do with them covering their ass for lawsuits and charging a lot to cover their malpractice ins. because we are such a sue happy country.

will76 · 01-03-2011, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank_Heartland

Our plan is a PPO very similar to yours with a $20 co-pay prescription drug plan as well but we can choose private doctors and hospitals of which most in the area are part of the plan.

unless you have very bad health or previous conditions that cause your prem to be so high, you got the wrong plan. No way someone in ok health who doesn't go to hospital should be paying $1,800 a month for 2 people.

TheDoc · 01-03-2011, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NetHorse

If you want to dispute my arguments please do so like an intelligent human being and address each one specifically.

Simply saying it's all 'lies' and 'missinfo', (not even a real word joker) makes you sound like a child. .

You didn't state anything to dispute... and I was already active in this thread, addressing subjects within it, when you decided to do your drive by trolling.

I didn't simply say it was lies or miss info, I've listed examples in this thread as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NetHorse

Even in Canada, the value of a Canadian dollar is equal to ours, yet everything from a 12 pack of beer to a sandwich at Subway costs almost 15-20% more. Everything is taxed to compensate for government services that are "free".

More things in Canada are taxed at a higher rate - but we have more overall taxes in America. If you stack our personal total tax, fed & state plus healthcare costs and out of pocket healthcare costs, etc.. it is more money than any Canadian pays in taxes.

Btw, beer costs more because it's stronger, just like stronger beer here cost more. Food costs more State to State, depending on distance it was transported, volume sold in the area, etc.

TheDoc · 01-03-2011, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

Vote for Barry, he promises you all you need without having to pay for it.

Day job end for the day?

Dodododa · 01-03-2011, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marketsmart

Please tell me what parts of the bill you do not agree with below....

Young adults (including stepchildren and adopted children) can be covered under their parents' insurance plans until the age of 26. They do not have to live with or be financially dependent on their parents to be eligible for coverage.

Health insurance companies can no longer refuse to provide coverage to children with pre-existing medical conditions.

.

Doesn't that alone suggest that the insurers will now have more burden on them and will have to increase costs to cover it? How is the plan going to defy basic market principles? By magic?

They'd better vote on a "magic" amendment pretty soon before all this becomes law.

uno · 01-03-2011, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

What happened to all the folks that were claiming it will make the rates go down?

That doesn't go into effect for a few years so the insurance companies are raising rates as much as possible before the larger pool of clientele lowers(in theory) the rates for all.

directfiesta · 01-03-2011, 11:23 PM

The USA are really fucked ....

Waiting to see the action on cable news ...

signupdamnit · 01-03-2011, 11:46 PM

For me insurance means $0 deductible and $0 co-pay with clearly defined reasonable exclusions (not a 5,000 page document). What often passes for insurance these days isn't really insurance it's more of a scam on the customer.

AmeliaG · 01-03-2011, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

unless you have very bad health or previous conditions that cause your prem to be so high, you got the wrong plan. No way someone in ok health who doesn't go to hospital should be paying $1,800 a month for 2 people.

That doesn't sound off to me for someone in a major metropolitan area who is self-employed and not a kid. People in similar situations, who work for big companies, are likely to pay more like $800 or $900 a month because the company generally covers roughly half.

V_RocKs · 01-04-2011, 12:12 AM

Happy New Year!

CaptainHowdy · 01-04-2011, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfoo

It's understandable how the insurance company makes money. Of course, the cash inflows have to be bigger than the cash outflows for the insurance company to be profitable. Overall, the insurance company collects more money than it gives out. People who have an illness shortly after signing up with the insurance company may receive more money from the insurance company than they gave the insurance company. People who have an illness very late in their lives may collect less money than they gave out. Being a doctor is a very responsible position. It is unfortunate if a doctor makes a mistake. The doctor has a strong duty to the patient. Good luck! Getting insured may help you achieve peace of mind. Some companies might require mandatory insurance in different areas such as: health insurance, rent insurance, car insurance and more.

Sid70 · 01-04-2011, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank_Heartland

That's just for me and the wife

auch. Is that because you have health needs to have such a plan with coverage of that type? Any way to make it cheaper?

Hank_Heartland · 01-04-2011, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

unless you have very bad health or previous conditions that cause your prem to be so high, you got the wrong plan. No way someone in ok health who doesn't go to hospital should be paying $1,800 a month for 2 people.

Did you miss my earlier post...we are both over 60 and have pre-existing conditions. I have high blood pressure and my wife has crohn's disease. We take meds and have twice yr doctor office visits but that's it!!!

When you get there you try shopping around for insurance

IllTestYourGirls · 01-04-2011, 07:02 AM

So why has Massachusetts health care system (very similar to Obamacare) failed so miserably?

IllTestYourGirls · 01-04-2011, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank_Heartland

Did you miss my earlier post...we are both over 60 and have pre-existing conditions. I have high blood pressure and my wife has crohn's disease. We take meds and have twice yr doctor office visits but that's it!!!

When you get there you try shopping around for insurance

Shop around? There is no such thing as shopping around for Health Insurance. You have to buy it in state. The main reason why costs are so high.

maxxtro · 01-04-2011, 07:05 AM

$1300 / month?! So glad I`m not American.

Hank_Heartland · 01-04-2011, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid70

auch. Is that because you have health needs to have such a plan with coverage of that type? Any way to make it cheaper?

See response to will76. We can make it cheaper by much higher deductible. Ours is $500 now. But let's day you fall on the ice and crack some ribs (I did in '93) an ER visit will cost you $6000 and they can do nothing but give you meds...they don't even wrap broken ribs anymore

And when you get our age the expensive test start coming once a year! A high deductible can kill you in no time

01-03-2011, 05:57 PM	#103
AmeliaG Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 10,525	I should add that the poor already do not pay for healthcare or health insurance. There were already programs for this. What the new "healthcare" bill primarily does is subsidize the massive insurance industry, on the backs of small business and young people who are extremely unlikely to cost the insurance companies anything. Yes, the provisions forcing insurance companies to accept people with pre-existing conditions will help a few people, but, on the overall, the insurance companies will make a much bigger profit. __________________ GFY Hall of Famer AltStar Hall of Famer Blue Blood's SpookyCash.com Babe photography portfolio

01-03-2011, 08:15 PM	#115
Wiredoctor Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The Great USA Posts: 1,632	We just got a 12% raise with no notice...argggg.. __________________ Search For Everything In One Easy Portal Big Juicy Nipples.com

01-03-2011, 09:12 PM	#118
The Demon Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 7,336	lol@the stupid liberals on this site. __________________ Greed is Good

01-03-2011, 10:30 PM	#121
12clicks Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: God's right hand Posts: 19,780	Vote for Barry, he promises you all you need without having to pay for it. __________________ I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.

01-03-2011, 10:39 PM	#122
fatfoo ICQ:649699063 Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 27,763	It's understandable how the insurance company makes money. Of course, the cash inflows have to be bigger than the cash outflows for the insurance company to be profitable. Overall, the insurance company collects more money than it gives out. People who have an illness shortly after signing up with the insurance company may receive more money from the insurance company than they gave the insurance company. People who have an illness very late in their lives may collect less money than they gave out. Being a doctor is a very responsible position. It is unfortunate if a doctor makes a mistake. The doctor has a strong duty to the patient. Good luck! Getting insured may help you achieve peace of mind. Some companies might require mandatory insurance in different areas such as: health insurance, rent insurance, car insurance and more. __________________ Send me an email: [email protected] Last edited by fatfoo; 01-03-2011 at 10:42 PM..

01-03-2011, 09:00 PM	#116
Trend Confirmed User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Mexico and Midwest Posts: 612	Can't we all just stick to porn?

01-03-2011, 11:23 PM	#129
directfiesta Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Punta Cana, DR Posts: 29,585	The USA are really fucked .... Waiting to see the action on cable news ... __________________ I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT ! But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

01-03-2011, 11:46 PM	#130
signupdamnit Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,697	For me insurance means $0 deductible and $0 co-pay with clearly defined reasonable exclusions (not a 5,000 page document). What often passes for insurance these days isn't really insurance it's more of a scam on the customer.

01-04-2011, 12:12 AM	#132
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,391	Happy New Year!

01-04-2011, 07:02 AM	#136
IllTestYourGirls Ah My Balls Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Under the gold leaf ICQ 388-454-421 Posts: 14,311	So why has Massachusetts health care system (very similar to Obamacare) failed so miserably? __________________

01-04-2011, 07:05 AM	#138
maxxtro Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: EU Posts: 561	$1300 / month?! So glad I`m not American. __________________ Last edited by maxxtro; 01-04-2011 at 07:06 AM..