Another CCBill Default: CCBill Splits the Affiliate Fees, Post your Setting - GoFuckYourself.com

RyuLion · 01-21-2011, 10:44 AM

My question is..is this gonna help you decide whether to join/push a certain program?

This is set as Default:

(So basically if they changed it to split the affiliate gets less commission.)

What is your setting?

wehateporn · 01-21-2011, 11:17 AM

Interesting! As an affiliate all I monitor is which programs are making me the most money (per surfer I send) and then I promote those programs the most. So if a program decides to pay less money it will have an impact on the quantity of traffic I send

DirtyDanza · 01-21-2011, 11:24 AM

Why as a program should we eat the fee's that are charged to us...

Processing fee's being added is very common in these parts...

We just had to pay a plumber 3200 bucks and had to add 3% cause were paying by credit card...

fact is a true 50% rev share shuold be 50% on everything including fees...

if im at 10% fees from my billers were splitting that..

then sharing the rest... to bitch about something like that is just retarded so if someone is at 25 bucks the fee would be 2.50 your saying a 1.25 per sale would sway you one way or the other in promoting a sponsor?

RyuLion · 01-21-2011, 11:30 AM

Here's one perspective:

The affiliate drives the traffic but the owner of the site is taking the risk, so he's going to split the fee with you. 7% x 100 adds up..

DigitalTheory · 01-21-2011, 11:37 AM

I have been promoting sites off and on for 7-8 years now and just recently realized what the split/don't split deal was all about. I never noticed the difference between a few bucks. Half of my top sites split and the other half of those sites don't, but they are good sponsors that generate good $$$ so I wasn't gonna stop promoting them over a small fee.

Bhunter · 01-21-2011, 11:45 AM

When I started Godverdommecash I did what my favourite ccbill sponsors did.. we pay the fees

RyuLion · 01-21-2011, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhunter

When I started Godverdommecash I did what my favourite ccbill sponsors did.. we pay the fees

DWB · 01-21-2011, 03:19 PM

I think it's fair to split with revshare.

signupdamnit · 01-21-2011, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyDanza

fact is a true 50% rev share shuold be 50% on everything including fees...

I agree entirely. So I'm sure CCBill will set up an option to share cross sale and all upsell revenue with affiliates and then all sponsors will enable these options on their rev share programs. Then again maybe hell will freeze over first?

There is a reason affiliates are leaving the business and it isn't because they are not driving revenue. It's that they are not getting an ever increasing portion of the revenue they are actually sending programs due to a number of factors. It's turning into a very poor deal to be an affiliate with your average adult program. A large portion of affiliates are too stupid to realize the various scams pulled on them but one thing even the stupidest ones understand is that their checks are getting less and less as time goes on.

The reality of the situation is that most programs could offer affiliates 100% rev share under the current terms and tracking and still come out way ahead. A 7% fee is nothing compared to what the affiliate is likely sending in 2011 and not getting a cut of.

PornoMonster · 01-21-2011, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

I agree entirely. So I'm sure CCBill will set up an option to share coss sale and all upsell revenue with affiliates and then all sponsors will enable these options on their rev share programs. Then again maybe hell will freeze over first?

There is a reason affiliates are leaving the business and it isn't because they are not driving revenue. It's that they are not getting an ever increasing portion of the revenue they are actually sending programs due to a number of factors. It's turning into a very poor deal to be an affiliate with your average adult program. A large portion of affiliates are too stupid to realize the various scams pulled on them but one thing even the stupidest ones understand is that their checks are getting less and less as time goes on.

The reality of the situation is that most programs could offer affiliates 100% rev share under the current terms and tracking and still come out way ahead. A 7% fee is nothing compared to what the affiliate is likely sending in 2011 and not getting a cut of.

The only right answer is -- Who gives you the biggest pay check for the amount of traffic you send.

If I sent 100K to a sponser paying 100%
and the same 100K to a sponser paying 20%.
The first program only had one sale, the quit after the trail
the second program had 10 sales, and every month half of the month before rebilled, I think I would take the second program.

Some programs have ZERO upsells , Cross sales, and don't email the members, or even pop ups.
Some programs rape the hell out of the surfer that just joined.

If you want 50% of the upsell then, we should have ccbill add in a place to split hosting, design, model fees, and so on.

Again you can argue this from many different angles, but it all comes down to
ROI or amout made per click!

Have a good day!

signupdamnit · 01-21-2011, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

The only right answer is -- Who gives you the biggest pay check for the amount of traffic you send.

If I sent 100K to a sponser paying 100%
and the same 100K to a sponser paying 20%.
The first program only had one sale, the quit after the trail
the second program had 10 sales, and every month half of the month before rebilled, I think I would take the second program.

Some programs have ZERO upsells , Cross sales, and don't email the members, or even pop ups.
Some programs rape the hell out of the surfer that just joined.

If you want 50% of the upsell then, we should have ccbill add in a place to split hosting, design, model fees, and so on.

Again you can argue this from many different angles, but it all comes down to
ROI or amout made per click!

Have a good day!

On rev share it takes a while to see how rebills will go. Depending on what the sponsor does inside with the upsells it can have a serious impact on rebill rates. I'd rather work with the one who is looking to grow business together rather than the one who will look for ways to take advantage of me tomorrow. Rev share is a LONG TERM partnerhip because of the rebills so these things are more important.

Let's not be naive here either. There's a reason over the years the program owners have prospered while their affiliates have been destroyed. It's because they are effectively now getting 85% of the revenue the affiliate generates as opposed to 50-60%. Between the cross sales, cam upsells in the member area, shabby tracking, mailings and these other things, that's what we have today with many programs.

and I'll split your hosting and design fees, if you'll agree to split mine!

You have a good weekend also.

PornoMonster · 01-21-2011, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

On rev share it takes a while to see how rebills will go. Depending on what the sponsor does inside with the upsells it can have a serious impact on rebill rates. I'd rather work with the one who is looking to grow business together rather than the one who will look for ways to take advantage of me tomorrow. Rev share is a LONG TERM partnerhip because of the rebills so these things are more important.

Let's not be naive here either. There's a reason over the years the program owners have prospered while their affiliates have been destroyed. It's because they are effectively now getting 85% of the revenue the affiliate generates as opposed to 50-60%. Between the cross sales, cam upsells in the member area, shabby tracking, mailings and these other things, that's what we have today with many programs.

and I'll split your hosting and design fees, if you'll agree to split mine!

You have a good weekend also.

As I 100% also agree 50/50 revshare should be a strong partnership, and the program owner should try hard to keep the rebills comming in.

Programs have become greedy, then it also turned into survival, with all the tubes and big programs offering everything for $1.99.

I have worked for program owners, and of course I am an affiliate, so I see both sides.

Again, not all programs have upsells, cross sales, and so on.

Just remember you wont change how a program operates, so promote the ones you think no matter what the marketing makes you the most money.

There is no answer to this, since every program has many different ways they run things, bottom line is the amount of your checks for amount of clicks sent.

Oh there is a lot more bills than the few I listed, I was just giving an example.

I think Program owners should be thier own best affiliate so they can see.
and if affiliates think it is so easy, why not start your own program.

If you are not making what you should with a program, why keep sending traffic?

TheDA · 01-21-2011, 04:31 PM

Irrelevant to me. How do you know what processing rate each individual sponsor is getting charged?

Look at the bottom line at the end of the day.

signupdamnit · 01-21-2011, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

As I 100% also agree 50/50 revshare should be a strong partnership, and the program owner should try hard to keep the rebills comming in.

Programs have become greedy, then it also turned into survival, with all the tubes and big programs offering everything for $1.99.

I have worked for program owners, and of course I am an affiliate, so I see both sides.

Again, not all programs have upsells, cross sales, and so on.

Just remember you wont change how a program operates, so promote the ones you think no matter what the marketing makes you the most money.

There is no answer to this, since every program has many different ways they run things, bottom line is the amount of your checks for amount of clicks sent.

Oh there is a lot more bills than the few I listed, I was just giving an example.

I think Program owners should be thier own best affiliate so they can see.
and if affiliates think it is so easy, why not start your own program.

If you are not making what you should with a program, why keep sending traffic?

Good points, I agree. But part of the problem is that rev share (98% of ccbill programs are rev share) is a long term deal. I could have 100 rebills a month with a sponsor who then decides to shut down the site, start another one just like it with with a different processor, then email all the old customers I sent offering them a free month and subsequent membership to the new site for 70% of what it cost before without paying me another dime. What can I do about that? Nothing really. It's important that the people you do business with aren't scumbags and that's getting increasingly harder to avoid. I had my own program once that's how I know about the type-ins.

I closed it many years ago for personal reasons and left the business for a few years.

Don't get me wrong I don't think your average program is very lucrative in 2011. Part of the reason is that affiliates are leaving left and right so the free or low cost traffic sources are disappearing. Now they actually have to be their own best affiliate or revenue will drop.

V_RocKs · 01-21-2011, 04:38 PM

Like somebody said earlier. I keep track of the end result in cash. If I send you 100,000 hits I am not concerned with how much you pay per join, I only care about the end result.

RyuLion · 01-21-2011, 05:28 PM

Tgif <----------

blackmonsters · 01-21-2011, 06:09 PM

50/50 means 50/50; which means splitting all the fees.

But almost no sponsors make affiliates pay charge back fees.

The CCbill option is good for affiliates because the sponsor can turn off
the split fees and thus increase the affiliate payout.

If CCbill advertised they process 50/50 and didn't split the fees then that
would be bad advertising to the sponsor; wouldn't it?
I mean, the sponsor signed up and only got 40%?
Would that be a problem that this was not explained to the sponsor?

The affiliate on the other hand has no complaint since they are always
getting better than 50/50 no matter what, especially since the affiliate doesn't
pay charge back fees.

If affiliates really want a true 50/50 then I expect a lot of angry affiliates
after they join a sponsor and send 2 sign ups that charge back and they
end up owning the sponsor $30 after they are invoiced for their half of the
charge back fees.

This shit has been figured out over years.
Stop un-fucking-figuring it OK!

signupdamnit · 01-21-2011, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackmonsters

If affiliates really want a true 50/50 then I expect a lot of angry affiliates
after they join a sponsor and send 2 sign ups that charge back and they
end up owning the sponsor $30 after they are invoiced for their half of the
charge back fees.

This shit has been figured out over years.
Stop un-fucking-figuring it OK!

Then again what if the charge backs really only happened because of the default cross sales? It's not like the affiliate gets paid for them in the first place and they will often increase charge backs and refunds (despite what the sponsors claim)because it seems like a scam to most people not familiar with the way they work. The reason programs keep them is because often they still make more money by having them. But again the affiliate gets nothing for them so why should the affiliate pay for the higher charge backs?

Speaking of which how much more would the average rev share affiliate be getting if they got a 50% cut of the sponsor's share of the profit from these cross sales? 10 - 15% more per month? That just goes to show you that it is as I said. Affiliates are sending revenue. They just aren't getting their cut. An extra 10% would help many an affiliate these days and on rev share it really is their money because they sent the customer. That's how rev share used to be. These days what is called rev share often is nothing close.

Brujah · 01-21-2011, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V_RocKs

Like somebody said earlier. I keep track of the end result in cash. If I send you 100,000 hits I am not concerned with how much you pay per join, I only care about the end result.

This is all that should really matter.

The affiliate should stop wasting his time being concerned about whether or not they are sharing processing fees, or getting a % of cross sells, and about what is "fair" etc... It's much better to just track your outgoing, and stick with the sponsors that you earn the most with. Always be testing.

blackmonsters · 01-21-2011, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Then again what if the charge backs really only happened because of the default cross sales? It's not like the affiliate gets paid for them in the first place and they will often increase charge backs and refunds (despite what the sponsors claim)because it seems like a scam to most people not familiar with the way they work. The reason programs keep them is because often they still make more money by having them. But again the affiliate gets nothing for them so why should the affiliate pay for the higher charge backs?

Speaking of which how much more would the average rev share affiliate be getting if they got a 50% cut of the sponsor's share of the profit from these cross sales? 10 - 15% more per month? That just goes to show you that it is as I said. Affiliates are sending revenue. They just aren't getting their cut. An extra 10% would help many an affiliate these days and on rev share it really is their money because they sent the customer. That's how rev share used to be. These days what is called rev share often is nothing close.

But as you implied/stated; the affiliates don't pay for charge backs.
So you went in a circle on that argument.

But affiliates only sign up to get half the sales they send to the site.
50/50 for the initial sale does not imply 50/50 for upsales/cross sales/etc...

If you have "mad" traffic then you can approach a sponsor with these options.

I mean, basically people have to read the sponsor's offer.
Some sponsors only pay $25 per sign up and no rebills.

That is worse that 50/50 revshare with split fees in my experience.

It's the sponsor's product, they have the right to set their own policies.
It's our right to choose a different sponsor if we don't like the terms of another
sponsor.

Finally, if I found a sponsor that converted 3 times better than what I have
now, I wouldn't give a shit what fee structure they had because I'd be making
way more money than now.

BFT3K · 01-21-2011, 07:04 PM

signupdamnit · 01-21-2011, 07:09 PM

Quote:

But as you implied/stated; the affiliates don't pay for charge backs.
So you went in a circle on that argument.

But affiliates only sign up to get half the sales they send to the site.
50/50 for the initial sale does not imply 50/50 for upsales/cross sales/etc...

That crap wasn't common when rev share first started. Affiliates would have raised hell. Now programs do $1.95 trials on revshare with $40 default checked cross sales. It's taking advantage of the affiliate who is now sending you traffic for $0.96 per sale at 2011 ratios. There's less incentive to convert the customer from the trial to that site. Why? Just send them to another site and pocket all the revenue and don't split it. Or any other number of scams you can pull.

True it'll show in the numbers eventually but why waste all that traffic to find this out? And most affiliates don't bother paying attention that's why they do it and get away with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackmonsters

Finally, if I found a sponsor that converted 3 times better than what I have
now, I wouldn't give a shit what fee structure they had because I'd be making
way more money than now.

The problem with that reasoning is they are usually the next ones to fuck you because they've demonstrated they don't give a shit about you. With PPS you take the money and run. It's no big deal. You pull links and move on. Rev share is different. Sending traffic to a revshare program is a calculated investment as well as a gamble. That's the way I look at it. Again, 98% of CCBill programs are revshare.

RyuLion · 01-21-2011, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackmonsters

50/50 means 50/50; which means splitting all the fees.

But almost no sponsors make affiliates pay charge back fees.

This shit has been figured out over years.
Stop un-fucking-figuring it OK!

YES but there's always new companies popping up.

If CCBill would tell us how many new accounts open up everyday, and don't know what they're doing..

blackmonsters · 01-21-2011, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyuLion

YES but there's always new companies popping up.

If CCBill would tell us how many new accounts open up everyday, and don't know what they're doing..

If the new accounts don't know what they are doing then they will use all the
defaults.

The default is 50/50!

But anyhooo!

Who cannot figure out what's going on after a couple of sign ups?

And of course, this can't be figured out by people who get no sign ups.
And therefore the only sponsors to complain about will be those that
are actually converting.

I've got a few sponsors that could pay 50,000% revhare and I'd still
not make the $50 minimum payout in 2 years.

RyuLion · 01-21-2011, 08:07 PM

Good for you blackmonster.

I'm heading out for some fun..

DirtyDanza · 01-21-2011, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

That crap wasn't common when rev share first started. Affiliates would have raised hell. Now programs do $1.95 trials on revshare with $40 default checked cross sales. It's taking advantage of the affiliate who is now sending you traffic for $0.96 per sale at 2011 ratios. There's less incentive to convert the customer from the trial to that site. Why? Just send them to another site and pocket all the revenue and don't split it. Or any other number of scams you can pull.

True it'll show in the numbers eventually but why waste all that traffic to find this out? And most affiliates don't bother paying attention that's why they do it and get away with it.

The problem with that reasoning is they are usually the next ones to fuck you because they've demonstrated they don't give a shit about you. With PPS you take the money and run. It's no big deal. You pull links and move on. Rev share is different. Sending traffic to a revshare program is a calculated investment as well as a gamble. That's the way I look at it. Again, 98% of CCBill programs are revshare.

no my friend thats called taking advantage of the surfer...

in all honesty fuck the affiliate, fuck the program owner.. we need to make the surfer happy and thats where 98% of affilates lack.. they worried about 1.25 more rather than if the fucking surfer will ever join another site again ....

piss on you paysite owners who make shitty sites with shitty bought or stolen content... I join sites on a daily basis to see what people offer inside...

it's fucking garbage... non exclusive dvd rip.... who the fuck does that... anyone can go buy a dvd and make a website from the content... if your not going to shoot the content then don't have paysites be an affilaite and leave the paysites to the pro's

signupdamnit · 01-21-2011, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyDanza

no my friend thats called taking advantage of the surfer...

in all honesty fuck the affiliate, fuck the program owner.. we need to make the surfer happy and thats where 98% of affilates lack.. they worried about 1.25 more rather than if the fucking surfer will ever join another site again ....

piss on you paysite owners who make shitty sites with shitty bought or stolen content... I join sites on a daily basis to see what people offer inside...

it's fucking garbage... non exclusive dvd rip.... who the fuck does that... anyone can go buy a dvd and make a website from the content... if your not going to shoot the content then don't have paysites be an affilaite and leave the paysites to the pro's

Can't argue with any of that. We've been fucking ourselves over the long term in many ways for far too long. Most of us aren't in this as a get rich quick scheme and we should act more like it.

DirtyDanza · 01-21-2011, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Can't argue with any of that. We've been fucking ourselves over the long term in many ways for far too long. Most of us aren't in this as a get rich quick scheme and we should act more like it.

agreed... 100%

now how do we convince the affiliates cause they have the traffic LOL

View Poll Results: Do you Split the CCBill %Fee with the Affiliate?
I Pay the Whole Fee	5	45.45%
I Split the Fee with my Affiliates	6	54.55%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

01-21-2011, 10:44 AM	#1
RyuLion ClubDomCash.com Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 32,219	Another CCBill Default: CCBill Splits the Affiliate Fees, Post your Setting My question is..is this gonna help you decide whether to join/push a certain program? This is set as Default: (So basically if they changed it to split the affiliate gets less commission.) What is your setting? __________________ Adult Biz Consultant A tech head since 1995

01-21-2011, 11:17 AM	#2
wehateporn Promoting Debate on GFY Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 27,173	Interesting! As an affiliate all I monitor is which programs are making me the most money (per surfer I send) and then I promote those programs the most. So if a program decides to pay less money it will have an impact on the quantity of traffic I send __________________ Sexy Girls Teasing

01-21-2011, 11:24 AM	#3
DirtyDanza Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: BP4L.... Las Vegas, Posts: 8,369	Why as a program should we eat the fee's that are charged to us... Processing fee's being added is very common in these parts... We just had to pay a plumber 3200 bucks and had to add 3% cause were paying by credit card... fact is a true 50% rev share shuold be 50% on everything including fees... if im at 10% fees from my billers were splitting that.. then sharing the rest... to bitch about something like that is just retarded so if someone is at 25 bucks the fee would be 2.50 your saying a 1.25 per sale would sway you one way or the other in promoting a sponsor? __________________ AVN Nominated Camming Couple Last edited by DirtyDanza; 01-21-2011 at 11:26 AM..

01-21-2011, 11:30 AM	#4
RyuLion ClubDomCash.com Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 32,219	Here's one perspective: The affiliate drives the traffic but the owner of the site is taking the risk, so he's going to split the fee with you. 7% x 100 adds up.. __________________ Adult Biz Consultant A tech head since 1995

01-21-2011, 11:37 AM	#5
DigitalTheory ^-^ Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SacTown Posts: 1,055	I have been promoting sites off and on for 7-8 years now and just recently realized what the split/don't split deal was all about. I never noticed the difference between a few bucks. Half of my top sites split and the other half of those sites don't, but they are good sponsors that generate good $$$ so I wasn't gonna stop promoting them over a small fee.

01-21-2011, 11:45 AM	#6
Bhunter Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 1,119	When I started Godverdommecash I did what my favourite ccbill sponsors did.. we pay the fees

01-21-2011, 03:19 PM	#8
DWB Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Encrypted. Access denied. Posts: 31,779	I think it's fair to split with revshare.

01-21-2011, 04:31 PM	#13
TheDA Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,665	Irrelevant to me. How do you know what processing rate each individual sponsor is getting charged? Look at the bottom line at the end of the day.

01-21-2011, 04:38 PM	#15
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,406	Like somebody said earlier. I keep track of the end result in cash. If I send you 100,000 hits I am not concerned with how much you pay per join, I only care about the end result.

01-21-2011, 05:28 PM	#16
RyuLion ClubDomCash.com Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 32,219	Tgif <---------- __________________ Adult Biz Consultant A tech head since 1995

01-21-2011, 06:09 PM	#17
blackmonsters Making PHP work Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: 🌎🌅🌈🌇 Posts: 20,390	50/50 means 50/50; which means splitting all the fees. But almost no sponsors make affiliates pay charge back fees. The CCbill option is good for affiliates because the sponsor can turn off the split fees and thus increase the affiliate payout. If CCbill advertised they process 50/50 and didn't split the fees then that would be bad advertising to the sponsor; wouldn't it? I mean, the sponsor signed up and only got 40%? Would that be a problem that this was not explained to the sponsor? The affiliate on the other hand has no complaint since they are always getting better than 50/50 no matter what, especially since the affiliate doesn't pay charge back fees. If affiliates really want a true 50/50 then I expect a lot of angry affiliates after they join a sponsor and send 2 sign ups that charge back and they end up owning the sponsor $30 after they are invoiced for their half of the charge back fees. This shit has been figured out over years. Stop un-fucking-figuring it OK! __________________ Make Money with Porn

01-21-2011, 07:04 PM	#21
BFT3K Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Narnia Posts: 10,764

01-21-2011, 08:07 PM	#25
RyuLion ClubDomCash.com Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 32,219	Good for you blackmonster. I'm heading out for some fun.. __________________ Adult Biz Consultant A tech head since 1995