Paul Markhams writing a book on porn, any other good books coming?

[Cherry7]

The Amish phone book

Good Reasons for War - Bush

The Australian Book of Foreplay

Contraception by Pope John Paul

Popular Lawyers

[k0nr4d]

He's so old his passport has his date of birth in roman numerals

[DamianJ]

Markham stole the contents of his ebook from Shed Simove:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0...0830725&sr=8-1

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

He's so old his passport has his date of birth in roman numerals

Porn has changed very little in the 40 + years I've been associated with it.

Yes it's stronger today, yes the girls have less hair and the image is clearer. But basically it's changed very very little.

Marketing porn has changed. now it's about a race to give away as much as possible in the hope 1-5,000 will buy. Don't tell me about your ratios, that's clicks on a banner to a site. Not people consuming free porn.

Producing porn has changed little. Except for the style of the girls clothing. Girls and lovers were using Polaroid cameras long before digital and there were loads of places to get prints done that couldn't of gone to Kodak. Video tape meant people could film themselves 30 + years ago without having to get cine film developed.

So what has changed?

The business is full of people today who would of gone broke in a few months in 1995.

More people consume porn than ever before and less pay for it.

Can't think of anything else. So tell me please.

[DamianJ]

Paul, you keep saying less people are paying, Epoch say the opposite.

Why do you think they are lying?

Serious question. Why do you think epoch would lie?

[k0nr4d]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Porn has changed very little in the 40 + years I've been associated with it.

Yes it's stronger today, yes the girls have less hair and the image is clearer. But basically it's changed very very little.

Marketing porn has changed. now it's about a race to give away as much as possible in the hope 1-5,000 will buy. Don't tell me about your ratios, that's clicks on a banner to a site. Not people consuming free porn.

Producing porn has changed little. Except for the style of the girls clothing. Girls and lovers were using Polaroid cameras long before digital and there were loads of places to get prints done that couldn't of gone to Kodak. Video tape meant people could film themselves 30 + years ago without having to get cine film developed.

So what has changed?

The business is full of people today who would of gone broke in a few months in 1995.

More people consume porn than ever before and less pay for it.

Can't think of anything else. So tell me please.

If you really are writing a book, I think you could write a ton about 40 years of experiences in the adult industry. You could also write about the trends in online porn.

6-7 years ago it was all about MGP's
3-4 years ago everyone had a hard-on for blogs and rss feeds
Now its all about tubes
The next step is pay tubes, and everything swinging towards live chats.

You can write about the empires that have risen and fallen

[k0nr4d]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Paul, you keep saying less people are paying, Epoch say the opposite.

Why do you think they are lying?

Serious question. Why do you think epoch would lie?

I suspect more people ARE paying, but simply because there are more people online then before, thus giving smaller ratios.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

I suspect more people ARE paying, but simply because there are more people online then before, thus giving smaller ratios.

WHo mentioned ratios?

Paul constantly says porn doesn't make as much money as it used to. Epoch say the opposite. I want to know why he thinks they are lying.

Nothing to do with ratios, nothing to do with shooting non-exc content, nothing to do with net neutrality.

Just simple cash.

Epoch say it's increasing. Paul, who obviously has no access to the data they have, says they are lying.

I wondered why he thought they were lying.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Paul, you keep saying less people are paying, Epoch say the opposite.

Why do you think they are lying?

Serious question. Why do you think epoch would lie?

All Epoch told you is more people are buying via them. They don't know anything else.

I see countless posts on here with people saying times are hard, people disappearing, people moving to mainstream, people like me who have made it and retired, porn companies closing online and off line, porn companies cutting back on expenses and staff, affiliates now getting free access to shows, shows getting less people to them, massive traffic hitting free Tubes and their conversion figures show it's for a free porn scene, more and more complaining about Tubes and Piracy, younger people now think free porn is the way, older people buying not being replaced, the growth of Internet users in the core markets not keeping up with the decline in sales, people switching from promoting/running paysites to Dating sites or Cams which will never replace the paysite market of old.

I see you're confused about what I said. Can you give me one indication that the porn market is growing and that more is being spent today on porn than was 5 years ago?

Other than "Epoch told me". Epoch told you about Epoch, which you told us. Are Epoch BSing you or you BSing us?

Practically everyone, other than Epoch, tells us it's tougher.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

All Epoch told you is more people are buying via them.

Again, why do you think they're lying? What benefit would it give them?

[k0nr4d]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

WHo mentioned ratios?

Paul constantly says porn doesn't make as much money as it used to. Epoch say the opposite. I want to know why he thinks they are lying.

Nothing to do with ratios, nothing to do with shooting non-exc content, nothing to do with net neutrality.

Just simple cash.

Epoch say it's increasing. Paul, who obviously has no access to the data they have, says they are lying.

I wondered why he thought they were lying.

Ratios are implied. Everyone knows their own ratio, and gauges how porn is selling based on how thier own stuff sells. So while epoch might for instance have 2 or 3 or whatever times more purchases, there maybe 100x more people not purchasing as well. Epoch has the stats for what they are selling, not total visits to the pages the people are purchasing from. There might be even say 10x as much purchases being made, but from 10000x as many sites.

[bjlover]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

people like me who have made it and retired,

Your business partner, the one you claimed ran the business and did all the shoots, has had to get a job as a secretary, hardly made it big style did you

[bjlover]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Paul, you keep saying less people are paying

Because no one is buying from him. He is broke and not selling his 1980's shit, so thinks no one else is selling.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

Ratios are implied.

I'm NOT TALKING ABOUT RATIOS. Just cold hard cash. Epoch say one there is more, Paul says they are lying. I wondered why he thought they were lying.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by bjlover

Your business partner, the one you claimed ran the business and did all the shoots, has had to get a job as a secretary, hardly made it big style did you

He did. His house over looks cabbages. Something I bet you only fucking DREAM OF!!!!!111oneoneoneone

[Black All Through]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The business is full of people today who would of gone broke in a few months in 1995.

[ottopottomouse]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Markham stole the contents of his ebook from Shed Simove:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0...0830725&sr=8-1

Shed Simove lifted it from loads of others too.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

Ratios are implied. Everyone knows their own ratio, and gauges how porn is selling based on how thier own stuff sells. So while epoch might for instance have 2 or 3 or whatever times more purchases, there maybe 100x more people not purchasing as well. Epoch has the stats for what they are selling, not total visits to the pages the people are purchasing from. There might be even say 10x as much purchases being made, but from 10000x as many sites.

Some people are saying traffic is harder to get, both sponsors and affiliates. We all know millions of people are now looking on Tubes. If Fabian is to believed it was 20 million a day on his alone. Multiply that by the number of similar tubes and the figure is huge. Even with BS it's millions of people hitting free Tube sites and we know how well they convert.

Now either they're non porn buyers pre 2007, either didn't buy or couldn't, or some of them are EX BUYERS.

Even during the boom times ratios of people looking at free porn and people buy was 1-100s if not 1-1,000. Today those ratios must really suck. Logic tells us millions are on Tubes sites and never go anywhere else. They no longer click on links, banners or adverts. They're there for the free porn.

Epoch have an Alexa ranking of 33,264. CCBILL 1892. How much switches from CCBILL to Epoch in % of CCBILL to make Epoch so happy? Not a lot I suspect.

When people on boards start telling everyone every things rosy, when people start spending more on content, custom or not, when more people post on GFY than leave, when more people attend a show every year than less. Then I might start to believe the business is turning. As usual all Damian can answer is "Epoch said."

Yes Eva has got a job, like so many of us ours wives work. Mine because she was bored. Even so the extra money is great. Damian has no one except his Mum And Dad.

Yes my house is near a farm and the front over looks a river and the back over looks a farm, wheat field usually. Damian's rented flat over looks a busy street at the front and a railway at the back.

Why would Epoch lie? It's called marketing sweetheart.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Why would Epoch lie? It's called marketing sweetheart.

Wow. So you are actually calling Epoch liars.

That's AWESOME.

/me shakes his head

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Black All Through

Yes Black All Through. The hard part in 1995 was selling content. Either selling to the consumer or selling to the publisher.

I see tons of image sets that would never of got to an editor in 1995, loads of elementary mistakes. Playboy down to Home Town Girls, weren't spending $5,000 to $500 on a set because any clown could shoot it. If the work didn't meet the standard of Suze Randall, Hank Londoner or me at the bottom of the ladder. You didn't make a sale because someone else did submit work that was good enough.

If magazines didn't sell in shops, the distributors didn't put them on vans.

Same with videos. You had to justify to a shop that your title on a sex shop shelf was worth the space.

There was no place for sub standard work, you couldn't put up a website and go for the traffic. Your work had to sell to a publisher and his work sometimes to distributor and then a shop. Today put up a site and throw traffic at it is 100 times easier.

If in 2005 the online porn turn over did surpass the offline porn turn over. It's spread amongst 1,000s compared to 100s. Maybe a lot of people like Damian did earn a very small income in porn. But never to the amount of the glory days. Today it's obvious what the truth is.

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Wow. So you are actually calling Epoch liars.

That's AWESOME.

/me shakes his head

Did they tell you MORE IS BEING SPENT ON ONLINE PORN.

Or MORE IS BEING SPENT VIA THEM?

There's another thing to think of. What dates did they offer and did they offer a reason for the jump?

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Did they tell you MORE IS BEING SPENT ON ONLINE PORN.

Or MORE IS BEING SPENT VIA THEM?

SHOUTING DOESN'T MEAN YOU DIDN'T JUST ACCUSE EPOCH OF LYING.

I'd get some proof ready. Be awful if you got banned.

:D

x

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

SHOUTING DOESN'T MEAN YOU DIDN'T JUST ACCUSE EPOCH OF LYING.

I'd get some proof ready. Be awful if you got banned.

:D

x

Come on marketing and Internet genius. Exactly what did they say?

Was it more money online, more money with them online and did they give you any reasons for their increases?

Also who said it?

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Come on marketing and Internet genius. Exactly what did they say?

Sorry, I thought you claimed to understand what they said enough to call them liars?

Are you admitting now you have no idea what you are talking about and probably shouldn't have called them liars?



PS The internet stopped having a capital i in 2004. Read up about it here http://www.wired.com/culture/lifesty.../2004/08/64596

[Paul Markham]

As you won't give a straight answer I will give you some marketing advice.

If you ran a real business like a site taking money or even an affiliate watching sales and payments, you would know all this. As you are a man who rights a few nice words in emails for other people you don't.

Epoch instituted a way for bounced sales from other process to go to them. They process a lot less scrubbing than CCBILL do, or so the stories go. They did this in 2007 or 2008.

So maybe their extra revenue is coming from more sales being bounced to them than were in the past.

On Alexa, which is just a very bad guide but still a guide, Epoch and CCBILL compare like this;



So Epoch has climbed in traffic and CCBILL has dropped. Does that tell you more are buying on Epoch and a lot less on CCBILL or more are buying over all?

Epoch's rise in traffic doesn't make up for CCBILL's drop in traffic.

Epoch say one there is more, Paul says they are lying. I wondered why he thought they were lying.

So did they tell you more is being spent online, or are you lying?

And if they said more online, did they mean more on porn online?

DamianJ = Marketing failure.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So did they tell you more is being spent online, or are you lying?

More than what?

You state, constantly, that less money is being spent on porn today. Epoch told me that 's wrong.

You then called them liars.

Let's not confuse matters with your laughable misunderstanding of which IPSP's URLs to put into Alexa (or that alexa is of any use at all), or more of your personal attacks against me.

You called Epoch liars.

Brave move man. Unless you can back up your claims with some proof?

You're on form today!!!

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

More than what?

You state, constantly, that less money is being spent on porn today. Epoch told me that 's wrong.

You then called them liars.

Let's not confuse matters with your laughable misunderstanding of which IPSP's URLs to put into Alexa (or that alexa is of any use at all), or more of your personal attacks against me.

You called Epoch liars.

Brave move man. Unless you can back up your claims with some proof?

You're on form today!!!

I've emailed a few guys at Epoch to see who said what. Will we find out how they arrive at their figures.

Good bye clown I'm off to look at dogs.

[czarina]

is he really?

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I've emailed a few guys at Epoch to see who said what. Will we find out how they arrive at their figures.

I imagine they look at their stats?

As opposed to you, just calling them liars with no access to any stats apart from your dwindling traffic.

I'd love to see your email:

Dear Epoch

Damian posted on gfy saying you said that the end of the decline was over. I think he's lying. Please can you give me access to your financials and stats so I can prove him wrong?

Thanks

Love Paul Markham

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Good bye clown I'm off to look at dogs.

I love how you are so public about that.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

I imagine they look at their stats?

As opposed to you, just calling them liars with no access to any stats apart from your dwindling traffic.

I'd love to see your email:

Dear Epoch

Damian posted on gfy saying you said that the end of the decline was over. I think he's lying. Please can you give me access to your financials and stats so I can prove him wrong?

Thanks

Love Paul Markham



I love how you are so public about that.

No I'm calling you a liar.

There stats tell how THEY are doing, not how the industry is doing. I already illustrated they are getting a lot more traffic than they used to, but CCBILL are getting a lot more LESS than Epoch's increase. Obviously facts like that fly over your head.

Yes I went to check out some babes and they all turned out to be dogs. http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?p=...6#post18044646

[harvey]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Again, why do you think they're lying? What benefit would it give them?

yes, I can't imagine why someone selling some kind of service will lie about their own service



wait....


Now seriously, all the data we have coming from small and medium sized programs shows an average retraction for January and February of 15/20% compared to November/December which in turn had a retraction of close to 20% compared to previous 2 months. The retraction in sales comparing January/February 2010 to November/December 2010 was close to 45%.

granted that we don't have data from the big programs and we don't have data from any cam site, which could make a difference, but at the same time, smaller sites tend to have better ratios than bigger programs, so I think it's pretty safe to say those numbers aren't really far from reality.

But let's say we don't have any numbers to measure this. Let's use observation and logic on objective and freely available data:

1) Everything is available for free. And I mean EVERYTHING.
2) The new consumer markets have grown from people used to get everything for free, they're savvier than previous generation of internet consumers.
3) Most (if not all) adult companies are downsizing. Many of them are closing.
4) You can see people attached to different programs for years begging for work, you can see a new one almost every single day
5) the value of every single service (design, coding, scripting, marketing, traffic, etc) has hit an all time low since most webmasters can't pay or they find it really difficult to do it. And we're talking about sums ranging on the $200 to $2000.
6) affiliates are getting used to 1:10000 conversions when 2 years ago they would NEVER promote a sponsor with that CTR.
7) Global Economy recession: Porn could be less or more affected, but it's ridiculous to think that, not only it won't be affected negatively, but... it will grow! Sorry, but that goes against any and every marketing and economics law. There might be exceptions, but they're just that: EXCEPTIONS.
8) to n) add yours....

Now, I was having fun about Paycom in the first paragraph, it's possible they see more sales, maybe they've better clients, maybe they handle a lot of cams sites, maybe they're dealing more with mainstream, I don't know. I know last year they announced a plan to hire people that contemplates 4.5 million dollars in payroll in exchange of 2 millions tax rebate, which is pretty huge since that would mean they would grow their OK personnel by almost 500%, and if they did, they need to have good reasons for such payroll growth.

Anyway, Paycom or not Paycom, the adult business is shrinking in relative terms (to the very least), whether you like it or not, all objective and subjective data shows it. For every example you can show of someone growing, I can show you 100+ that are shrinking (if not disappeared)

[harvey]

ha ha, while I was writing a thoughtful and documented response this thread derived into the usual Paul vs Damian craziness, I'll never learn!

[DBS.US]

Pimpin' Ain't Easy [Paperback]

Product Description
SEX SELLS. BUT WHO GETS THE COMMISSION? "As a porn agent, I did. Plus I got the girls, sixty inch flat screen TV's, the girls, acid reflux, soul crushing guilt, the girls, anxiety, Chlamydia, two girls at a time, a beach pad, more girls, depression, a few good friends, hilarious stories and, quite possibly, redemption." Pimpin' Ain't Easy is the tale of how Frank Prather, a blogger and internet radio host, went from being on the cusp of a career as a television comedy writer, to owning a talent agency for pornstars, to coming full circle back to the mainstream entertainment business. The story chronicles his three years in the adult industry, his relationships with the girls, and the daily internal struggle with his own morality. Plus it details an intimate look at the lives, personalities, and psychologies of his clients, who eventually came to be his friends. From the year that he simultaneously dated two pornstars, one bi-polar and the other a paranoid schizophrenic, to a threesome gone horribly awry, to his tutorial on the most common types of scenes, to his scathing dissertation on porn agents and STD testing, you'll be be horrified and disturbed while at the same time laughing harder than you ever have before. This is the book that finally unleashes and discloses the reality of what the adult industry is really like, the good, the bad, and the hideously ugly truth. Prather lays it all on the line in this part memoir, part insiders guide/expose, tearing back the curtain with an unparalleled level of brutal honesty and embarrassing personal stories. One things for sure, by the end everyone will agree...Pimpin' Ain't Easy.
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[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

No I'm calling you a liar.

Sorry, I'm lost now. What did I say that are you suggesting is a lie now?

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

There stats tell how THEY are doing, not how the industry is doing.

Of course. It would be retarded to suggest otherwise. You and your straw men. What % do you think they process of adult sales? I'd say their stats would be good enough to use as a sample, wouldn't you?

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I already illustrated they are getting a lot more traffic than they used to, but CCBILL are getting a lot more LESS than Epoch's increase. Obviously facts like that fly over your head.

Oh I snipped that nonsense and didn't reply because I thought it was a joke. Obviously you'd put the join pages URLs in, not their corporate home pages to make any kind of a point.

And really, assuming you know how Alexa works, you may as well just draw some stats with a crayon and you'd get the same accuracy.

Hope the puppy helps.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by harvey

yes, I can't imagine why someone selling some kind of service will lie about their own service

Why would they lie about the decline in sales being over?

How would that make them look any better or help their business?

[Barry-xlovecam]

There is no accurate reporting of porn sales, web based or otherwise that are publicly available and audited ? with the exception of a few publicly traded stocks.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

There is no accurate reporting of porn sales, web based or otherwise that are publicly available and audited ? with the exception of a few publicly traded stocks.

100% true. Damian is just trolling. I'm working on knowledge of the industry from 1977 till today, however it's just a guess. And have said so.

I've seen the companies built by offline porn and in no way do they compare with any online porn company at the same height. Even though many of the offline porn bosses had the intelligence to invest their money outside porn, the money they earned inside was vast.

The public traded companies were mostly Production and Wholesale, the porn industries turn over has to include retail. Every single Video produced by companies like Private, Wicked, Vivid, etc were worth $30+ so quoting only wholesale figures is very misleading. People like David Gold didn't earn money from just wholesale, he earned money from retail.

Gold owns Gold Group International (GGI), the parent company of the retailer Ann Summers, lingerie chain Knickerbox, and owned pornographic magazine company Gold Star Publications (GSP), printing and distribution businesses.

Will any online porn business grow to this extent? Or the extent of Playboy, Hustler, PRO?

Ultimately it makes little difference if you're earning $50,000 in an industry worth $50 billion or $50 million. The only thing that matters is what you earned last year, this year and next year in porn. And most know what that means for them. Despite what "marketing" talk they put out. We know what WE earn.

People like Damian clinging onto the notion that he's part of a big industry doesn't pay his rent. If online porn is the biggest porn income EVER, it's spread amongst 1,000s like him. People living in countries where $50,000 is a fortune and countries like the UK and US where it's hardly better than a decent offline job. What ever wealth online porn generates, it's spread very thin amongst 10s 1,000s.

Instead of the Internet turning out to be the best thing to ever hit the porn business it was the worse. That makes me sad, I came into it properly in 2001 expecting very little, in 2002 I was shocked at how much we did earn. In 2005 we had our best year ever. 3 years later I saw the end for many was coming. I had always thought the road we were taking online was wrong and said so. Hence a lot of hostility to my post. Did I turn out to be right?

Because of the refusal by most online porn companies to adapt. Except on giving free porn away. In that area we are tip top.

[Paul Markham]

Here is a link to those who want to know more about shooting porn.

http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/1017802-read-book-shooting-porn.html

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

100% true. Damian is just trolling.

Not this time.

You called me a liar.

I asked you to explain what I am lying about.

Will you?

Or is this just ANOTHER baseless personal attack?

x

[georgeyw]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

More than what?

You state, constantly, that less money is being spent on porn today. Epoch told me that 's wrong.

You then called them liars.

Let's not confuse matters with your laughable misunderstanding of which IPSP's URLs to put into Alexa (or that alexa is of any use at all), or more of your personal attacks against me.

You called Epoch liars.

Brave move man. Unless you can back up your claims with some proof?

You're on form today!!!

What are you actually trying to achieve with this rant? Seems as though you want Paul to say 'I called Epoch liars' ? Who cares?

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by georgeyw

What are you actually trying to achieve with this rant? Seems as though you want Paul to say 'I called Epoch liars' ? Who cares?

Oh, I want Paul to realise he called Epoch liars, then realised he shouldn't do that, so changed it to call me a liar, then realised that I wasn't lying, so he changed it to me trolling.

I just wanted to highlight that in case he thought he had actually gotten away with more personal attacks and lies. He seems very keen on the rules of GFY except when it comes to him!

I'm off to visit my family for the day, because despite another personal attack and lie from Paul when he said I lived with my parents, I don't!!

[Paul Markham]

Damian is losing it completely and ranting is all that's left.

I contacted Epoch and will get a reply soon, let's see who is telling the truth.

Why haven't you spammed your site www.hotukbabes.com here more?

Here's a link for you.

How's it doing for you?

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I contacted Epoch and will get a reply soon

Dear Epoch

Damian is really annoying me on GFY.

He claims that one of your staff told him, last September, that you had seen the end of the bottoming out and recovery had started.

I called you liars about this.

Bit of a faux-pas, but there you go.

Then I changed it cunningly to make it look like I was calling DAMIAN a liar, not you. Clever eh?

THEN I forgot the lying angle and just called him a troll.

Next I'm gonna swear and say he is shit at his job.

So, anyway, can you send me your turnover for the last 5 years so I can check?

Thanks

THE Paul Markham, author of the least read ebook in history.

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

....

I see countless posts on here with people saying times are hard, people disappearing, people moving to mainstream, ...

If anyone is doing this and needs affordable but high quality mainstream content, check out my offer in my SIG.

[georgeyw]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Oh, I want Paul to realise he called Epoch liars, then realised he shouldn't do that, so changed it to call me a liar, then realised that I wasn't lying, so he changed it to me trolling.

I just wanted to highlight that in case he thought he had actually gotten away with more personal attacks and lies. He seems very keen on the rules of GFY except when it comes to him!

I'm off to visit my family for the day, because despite another personal attack and lie from Paul when he said I lived with my parents, I don't!!

Well enjoy your day with your family.