BFT3K

Without a doubt, Obama is getting re-elected.

Get used to it haters!

Bill8

The intentional cluelessness of the republicans here is amazing. But typical of them.

But it's wonderful to see more democrats and independents beginning to clealy describe the problem.

The question is, what to do about it?

How to fight, when the corporatists control the money, the media, and both parties?

Robbie

The Who said it best:
"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"

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marketsmart

unfortunately, it will take a two party collective effort..

and democrats have different ideals that republicans and vice versa..

people need to start paying attention to how their elected officials vote and if they dont vote according to their campaign platform, then they need to be voted out of office next election...

politicians need to be shown that if you dont do what the people want, they you will no longer be in politics..

i dont know if this would ever be possible, but one can hope...





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Minte

I disagree. For every PAC there is a special interest group lobbying their positions. I was a part of one during Les Aspins tenure. The Aspin institute. If you think you can get a boardroom of business men to agree on anything,you've never sat in a boardroom. This idea that every politician is owned by big business should actually look at the makeup of the senate. Herb Kohl is worth 100's of millions. Ron Johnson,100's of millions. These men can't be bought. I know Ron Johnson. He is in the plastics business. He ran for senate because he was tired of the way things run in Washington.

Lastly,the president of the country has veto power over any bill. So I still believe that he indeed holds the power.

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Bill8

That approach might work, but I think it needs to be simplified (dumbed down?) to a level that works in the reptile and mammal brains of the people.

By that I mean, somehow get a vicious anti-incumbency sentiment happening.

THROW THE BUMS OUT! - that kind of thing. Foster a distrust so intense, so all consuming, that no amount of pork and the lure of special deals can stand up to it.

Do not allow anyone to stay in office. Keep cyling them until they get the point.

And a distrist that cleans out the bureas too - because it's not just the elected politicians, it's the whole priviledged political class.

And the lobbyists. Lobbyists should fear for their lives.

Now, the problem is, how to get something like that cooking?

---

So, thats one model - what other approaches could you use?

2MuchMark

As a Canadian, I am fucking shocked to see what is going on in the US every day. In my opinion, the GOP is destroying your country right before your eyes and nobody, not even obama, has the balls to stand up to them.

I like Obama and if I were American I would have voted for him. Next election I would probably vote for him again.

What kills me is that this man is very smart and has incredible patience, but he does not seem to want to stand up to the great cry-baby, Boehner. Those fucking GOP's raised the debt ceiling 7 times under GW Bush. 17 times under Ronald Reagan. It's very clear that the GOP wants Obama out of office, but those cocksuckers really willing to wreck the world economy to get their way?

Obama needs to Raise Taxes right fucking now on the rich, and cut the subsidies and tax breaks that big companies get. Oil companies pay NO TAX. GE pays NO TAX. WTF?

The Tax breaks that GW Bush put in were meant (at least on the outside) to create jobs. Instead of doing that though, Corporations used the savings to pay themselves bonuses while out-sourcing the work to other countries. Here we are 10 years later and look at the shit storm it has created.

Palin is a batshit crazy liar, Bachman is religious fundamentalist anti-gay, anti-science, anti-black, anti socialized medicine liar, and Mitt Romney is just a overall general liar who wrecks companies to boot. And these fools are Obama's competition for 2012? Jesus Christ no wonder he's turning grey before our eyes..!

The overwhelming amount of BULLSHIT Obama has to put up with is staggering. I still like the guy but dammit man, he's got to take out your fucking fists!! Punch Boehner in the head, sue FOX NEWS for a Trillion dollars and have them remove the word NEWS from their name, and then tell Palin, Bachman & Romney to Shut the Fuck Up.

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marketsmart

i would never say that every politician is owned by corporate, but i would say that the vast majority are..

i would say, where is the strong banking regulation that both sides promised after the meltdown..

did anyone offer to suspend pay of congress until the debt issue has been resolved?

no... then can threaten to not cut SS checks, but never their own pay..

the whole system is broken...


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billywatson

That so? How did that work back when our country was founded?

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BFT3K

Maybe if the US was constantly in fear of an all-out war with the Soviet Union, we could work together to keep the country united, and challenge ourselves to be better.

Oh, wait a minute - that already happened.

Okay, okay, how about this instead...

We all just communicate online, dividing up along party, income, racial, and religious lines, while our "elected" politicians due the bidding of their corporate overlords.

Yes, that's the best plan!

NO ACTION, NOW!

Bill8

It doesn't really help to cartoonize everything in the oversimplified and fictionalized way that the republicans always do.

Transcend partisan rhetorical traps, and you'll be more effective.

Your problem, as a democratic partisan, is not to correct the republicans, they destroy and discredit themselves quite handlily without your mirroring them.

You have to figure out how to correct the powers in your own party - they are your problem, the republicans are not relevant.

BFT3K

How do you extrapolate a political partisanship from my satiric statement?

I was making fun of the whole ridiculous system.

Did this part make you think of Republicans?...

"politicians due the bidding of their corporate overlords"

If so, then maybe you are also leaning a little bit to one side as well.

Bill8

I'm an independent, a techno-libertarian (a special type of libertarian, the term comes from the old cypherpunks list), who tends to vote democrat, because the republicans tend to be further away from libertarian principles than the democrats.

And because the republicans have lost touch with the realpolitik of oour age, the planetary scale of the problems facing us.

For example, the competition between more-managed economies and less-managed economies, resource depletion, population expansion, and planetary industrialization.

So, by the standards of that obsolete and mostly irrelevant model of right/left, I am more left than right. Even if it is a meaningless distinction of no more practical application these days than catholic and protestant.

Being more "left" than "right" doesn't prevent me from seeing the problem of the corruption of the professional dem pols.

BFT3K

I'm with you 100% - no kidding! I am also a registered Independent. The first time I ever voted Democrat was for Obama. Bush was just SOOOO FUCKING BAD there was no chance in hell I was going to waste a vote on another unelectable Independent.

Obama was the lesser of 2 evils in 2008, and it appears he will be again, in 2012.

Shy of an all out revolution, Obama will be re-elected.

The GOP seems to get everything they want with Obama as president, and all of the right-wing haters on TV and the radio get higher ratings with Obama as president.

He will definitely get re-elected.

Brent 3dSexCash

I just plain don't like politicians in this country.

I think they're all crooks.

Vendzilla

I don't think I could like him less, I mean you guys are going to vote for a politician from Chicago?

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

buzzard

The answer is pretty fucking simple... The CONSTITUTION.
It's the best ever. It is our power.

Long overdue to hold them to it.

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BFT3K

You don't like Obama any more? Why the sudden change?

ShellyCrash

Yeah, I don't know what the fuck happened. It was like a few weeks after the inauguration he lost his balls.

After Obama took office he was in the best position possible to get any and all legislation he wanted pushed through.

What the Bush Administration took as a mandate from god just 4 years before these fucking idiots (democrats) ignored. They were so worried about pollsters, playing the middle ground and working towards re-election that they screwed the pooch. If the majority didn't want the changes Obama promised they wouldn't have voted him into office.

Agreed and quoted for truth.



This shit is just unbelievable. During the Bush Administration the debt ceiling was raised 7 times. The budget compromise put forth by the president offers $3 in spending cuts for every $1 in additional taxes, taxes which wouldn't hit until 2013.

To the GOP I say BE FUCKING REASONABLE. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, don't fucking play chicken with our goddamn economy.

To people who staunchly refuse higher taxes STOP BEING STUPID. How important are the dollars you save by keeping your taxes low when the country defaults on it's loans and suddenly the US dollar isn't worth shit?!?

We gotta face facts, put the partisan politics aside. Look at what's happening in Greece- this isn't a game and there are dyer consequences. You may not agree with how the Obama administration spent the money extending unemployment benefits and bailing out US Auto Makers, but I dont remember seeing anyone out selling war bonds when we invaded Iraq or Afghanistan either. This isn't a one party problem and it's going to take more than a one party solution, both sides gotta give.

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buzzard

Wow you can't see the forest for the trees. There were no balls to lose lol. It was on their agenda all along. To dupe you... To do a 180. It was scripted.

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Sin_Vraal

Meh,

One of 2 things is happening here.

1) the USA is ruining its currency value so that they can pull off the largest robbery in history... devalue the dollar till the 14Trillion dollar debt is meaningless, print some dollar bills and pay it off or just lulz your way to the bank when you pull out some gold / guns / warships etc and pay out people.


2) We are in the Corporate Death spiral...which ends in bankruptcy in which case there will be revolution at the end of tunnel.



Moral of the story? : Make sure you buy your guns NOW.

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TheDoc

About 40 countries far worse off than America, most all dev'ed countries are far worse off than America.

We actually produce money, most other countries produce shit and have debt ratios far worse than ours.

We could double our money supply, double our debt, stop producing 50% of what we do..... and we STILL be the biggest economy in the world.

You people sheep it way too damn much.

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Bill8

To continue with a theme, the obsolesence of the right/left model...

The most relevant way to categorize political stance these days isn't right left, that 100 year old mechano-industrial model.

it's wether you lean forward or back.

Almost all tea partiers, republicans, and a large percentage of libertarians lean back. They want to return to some ideal that existed in the past.

Almost all democrats also lean back, and also want to return to some ideal that existed in the past.

But the past is gone and will never return.

What's important now, and very rare, is thinking about the future, and developing political models that have a chance of working in the future, because we are facing a hard and huge and incredibly complex future.

And neither of our two parties, which are really one party, the plutocratic party, has any fucking ideas that make much sense for our future.

Bill8

Probably.

He's still a planted stooge, and a traitor to the people who elected him. He has stabbed the democrats in the back, and is the worst thing that could have happened to the democratic party at this crucial time in history.

I despise him.

I despised Clinton for the same reasons. Another plutocratic stooge who sold the people's future off for pennies on the dollar.