Would eliminating the Minimum Wage result in lower unemployment? - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

kane · 09-04-2011, 11:42 PM

I also have a theory that if there were no minimum wage it would not help create many jobs. The reason is that large companies would still have no real reason to create large amounts of jobs in this country. Why pay a US worker $2 or $3 per hour when they can still pay a worker in another country the same or less but not have to pay social security, benefits, overtime, deal with OSHA etc.

You might see some small companies add the lower paying jobs, but if we are being honest most of those jobs will likely have a high turnover rate and will be a pain in the ass to fill with reasonable people so chances are they may end up being more of a pain than they are worth and companies would rather just sit on that money than create those lower paying jobs.

mynameisjim · 09-04-2011, 11:50 PM

I'm not going to argue the details anymore because the whole underlying concept is so ludicrous. Why on Earth would anyone believe that you can make a country great by further burdening the poor, the people with the least to give. All this talk of eliminating the minimum wage, drug testing those on food stamps, busting unions, cutting medicaid, they are all aimed at further burdening the poor. How do you make a country great by burdening the most disadvantaged among us even more than they already are?

Don't people realize what is happening, the super wealthy banks totally gutted the middle class of all it's value. They took the money, went out of business, then took the tax payers money to prop themselves back up. Now the super wealthy want to go after the poor, but the poor have nothing, so they are going after all the social programs they depend on. First they totally extracted all the money from the middle class and now they are going after the poor.

If you believe that further burdening the poor will make America great again then you are either:

a) Mr. Burns

or

b) have fallen for the right wing rhetoric that says that all the problems faced by this country are caused by the poor and all the solutions can only be carried out by catering to the wealthy.

Robbie · 09-05-2011, 12:25 AM

mynameisjim... from my perspective it would seem that "yes" we do need to help some folks who genuinely can not work.

But I don't see it as a "burden" to require able bodied people to pay for their own food and medical care. I can see it as something that our country has tried to do. But if we can't do it anymore I don't think it is a "burden" to them. It's their responsibility to take care of themselves. I'm not on this Earth to pay other people's bills for them. I'm here to take care of MY family.

mynameisjim · 09-05-2011, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

mynameisjim... from my perspective it would seem that "yes" we do need to help some folks who genuinely can not work.

But I don't see it as a "burden" to require able bodied people to pay for their own food and medical care. I can see it as something that our country has tried to do. But if we can't do it anymore I don't think it is a "burden" to them. It's their responsibility to take care of themselves. I'm not on this Earth to pay other people's bills for them. I'm here to take care of MY family.

True, but don't forget, we are not broke as a country because we tried too hard to help those that are less fortunate. We went broke because we fought two of the longest wars in history while at the same time cutting taxes. Then we bailed out the banks which account for over half of the country's GDP. Before all that started we had a surplus of money!

The super wealthy started the Tea Party so they could shift the debate and they have succeeded. Sound minded people are starting to believe that we are broke because of social programs. The truth is, we can keep all our promises to the poor and the elderly, but we can't fight wars without raising taxes and we can't bail out companies that are larger than most countries and expect to somehow have money left in the bank.

We can't lose sight of how we really got here and we didn't get here by giving too much to the poor.

tiger · 09-05-2011, 01:36 AM

Productivity is up, wages are down, corp profits at all time highs. They will hire when their workforce can't meet demand, its pretty simple really.

BFT3K · 09-05-2011, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

I'm not going to argue the details anymore because the whole underlying concept is so ludicrous. Why on Earth would anyone believe that you can make a country great by further burdening the poor, the people with the least to give. All this talk of eliminating the minimum wage, drug testing those on food stamps, busting unions, cutting medicaid, they are all aimed at further burdening the poor. How do you make a country great by burdening the most disadvantaged among us even more than they already are?

Don't people realize what is happening, the super wealthy banks totally gutted the middle class of all it's value. They took the money, went out of business, then took the tax payers money to prop themselves back up. Now the super wealthy want to go after the poor, but the poor have nothing, so they are going after all the social programs they depend on. First they totally extracted all the money from the middle class and now they are going after the poor.

If you believe that further burdening the poor will make America great again then you are either:

a) Mr. Burns

or

b) have fallen for the right wing rhetoric that says that all the problems faced by this country are caused by the poor and all the solutions can only be carried out by catering to the wealthy.

BFT3K · 09-05-2011, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiger

Productivity is up, wages are down, corp profits at all time highs. They will hire when their workforce can't meet demand, its pretty simple really.

As long as companies are allowed to hire from the foreign labor pool, at pennies p/hour, without any penalties, then the US workforce will NEVER come back, period.

CyberHustler · 09-05-2011, 08:21 AM

I'm speaking from an east coast perspective.

I know plenty of citizens that wouldn't mind being paid less like an illegal (and will work just as hard) just to have a legal job.

Plenty...

...employment will go up.

BFT3K · 09-05-2011, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dedi

I'm speaking from an east coast perspective.

I know plenty of citizens that wouldn't mind being paid less like an illegal (and will work just as hard) just to have a legal job.

Plenty...

...employment will go up.

So just to be clear, hiring illegal labor is your solution for rebuilding the US jobs problem?

BFT3K · 09-05-2011, 11:15 AM

kane · 09-05-2011, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

Technology alone has killed millions of jobs. IMO the main reason manufacturing jobs move overseas is because it's not skilled labor. If you're working a factory line doing the same thing thousands a times a day, wanting yearly pay increases and benefits, can you really blame companies for moving?

Or the people who complain about illegals taking jobs. People need a reality check, if an illegal can come to this country, not speak the language, with ZERO US education, work harder, and take your job, who's fault is it really?

Americans haven't a clue on how good we truly have it. It's simple for Americans to come up with an idea, pay a small fee for a business license and open shop. Try this in Russia or China, they'll let you setup/build, but the second you turn a profit they'll clamp down in a heartbeat because your competition paid off or knows the right person.

WTS, you also get what you pay for because China and India are having huge labor problems because they work like drones. Meaning, the American labor markets naturally think how to innovate things or take pride in explaining a faster or more productive way to improve products or service. Even when employed by another.

Not there, because they'll never speak out, benefit, or climb the company latter because of their heavy cast system. You can have the best education in the world, but it means fuck all until you get your hands dirty causing thought for innovation.

The best thing for unemployment right now is for the Government to inject small capital loans for small business or at least wave all company taxes for 3 years. If they did this there will be a wave of new innovation creating new markets and employment. What most people don't know is 50% of all the successful companies on the stock market were started by people with a year of college or less with an average IQ of 100.

Anyway, this will never happen because getting money from the Government is a bureaucratic red tape nightmare, the gov clowns monitoring the loans are unqualified or they wouldn't be working for the government, and followed by rampant corruption.

In short, there is no solution and my honest opinion is let it all crash and burn as we Americans will learn to stop voting for posers and be grateful for the things we have rather then the things we don't or others have. Meaning, we are well past needed tough love.

Technology is one of the big reasons for these job loses as you state. Also, as you state, these were/are unskilled jobs so it is no surprise that they eventually moved off-seas. Some of it can be blamed on greed. For example I read the other day that if Apple manufactured all of it's products here in the US and paid a livable wage to those who were making them they would still make 100% profit or more. They want more profit so they have them built elsewhere and that is there prerogative. Clearly the people of this country don't care where they are built or they would not buy them.

Where we have a big problem now that won't be quick or easy to solve is that we now have potentially millions of workers with no job and no skills beyond those for a job that no longer exists. Those people will need to get some kind of education or training if they are going to eventually get jobs that pay a good wage. If the government is going to be handing out stimulus money I wouldn't mind seeing some of it go to people like that who are going to go back to school and learn a new trade.

$5 submissions · 09-05-2011, 05:43 PM

Where are the shovel ready jobs?

GatorB · 09-05-2011, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

Where are the shovel ready jobs?

waiting for government money which the GOP refuses to give because they want things to continue to be bad until Nov 2012.

CyberHustler · 09-05-2011, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

So just to be clear, hiring illegal labor is your solution for rebuilding the US jobs problem?

No... read it again.

09-04-2011, 11:50 PM	#102
mynameisjim Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,985	I'm not going to argue the details anymore because the whole underlying concept is so ludicrous. Why on Earth would anyone believe that you can make a country great by further burdening the poor, the people with the least to give. All this talk of eliminating the minimum wage, drug testing those on food stamps, busting unions, cutting medicaid, they are all aimed at further burdening the poor. How do you make a country great by burdening the most disadvantaged among us even more than they already are? Don't people realize what is happening, the super wealthy banks totally gutted the middle class of all it's value. They took the money, went out of business, then took the tax payers money to prop themselves back up. Now the super wealthy want to go after the poor, but the poor have nothing, so they are going after all the social programs they depend on. First they totally extracted all the money from the middle class and now they are going after the poor. If you believe that further burdening the poor will make America great again then you are either: a) Mr. Burns or b) have fallen for the right wing rhetoric that says that all the problems faced by this country are caused by the poor and all the solutions can only be carried out by catering to the wealthy. __________________ jim (at) amateursconvert . com Amateurs Convert Last edited by mynameisjim; 09-04-2011 at 11:55 PM..

09-05-2011, 12:25 AM	#103
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,959	mynameisjim... from my perspective it would seem that "yes" we do need to help some folks who genuinely can not work. But I don't see it as a "burden" to require able bodied people to pay for their own food and medical care. I can see it as something that our country has tried to do. But if we can't do it anymore I don't think it is a "burden" to them. It's their responsibility to take care of themselves. I'm not on this Earth to pay other people's bills for them. I'm here to take care of MY family. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

09-05-2011, 01:36 AM	#105
tiger Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,986	Productivity is up, wages are down, corp profits at all time highs. They will hire when their workforce can't meet demand, its pretty simple really. __________________

09-05-2011, 05:43 PM	#112
$5 submissions I help you SUCCEED Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Pearl of the Orient Seas Posts: 32,195	Where are the shovel ready jobs? __________________ Need a NON-ADULT income stream? We build your YOUTUBE CHANNEL for only $20 per video! For Hire: $3/hour or $400 per month Marketing Specialist Virtual Assistants

09-04-2011, 11:42 PM	#101
kane Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: portland, OR Posts: 20,684	I also have a theory that if there were no minimum wage it would not help create many jobs. The reason is that large companies would still have no real reason to create large amounts of jobs in this country. Why pay a US worker $2 or $3 per hour when they can still pay a worker in another country the same or less but not have to pay social security, benefits, overtime, deal with OSHA etc. You might see some small companies add the lower paying jobs, but if we are being honest most of those jobs will likely have a high turnover rate and will be a pain in the ass to fill with reasonable people so chances are they may end up being more of a pain than they are worth and companies would rather just sit on that money than create those lower paying jobs.

09-05-2011, 08:21 AM	#108
CyberHustler Unregistered Abuser Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 25,280	I'm speaking from an east coast perspective. I know plenty of citizens that wouldn't mind being paid less like an illegal (and will work just as hard) just to have a legal job. Plenty... ...employment will go up.

09-05-2011, 11:15 AM	#110
BFT3K Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Narnia Posts: 10,764