US is becoming a nation of hamburger flippers - Ross Perot 1993

[Tempest]

Poor ol Ross Perot (Ron Paul reminds me of him)... He was right about a lot of things.. Of course he saw Mexico as the place that would create the "giant sucking sound" of jobs leaving the US due to NAFTA but it ended up being entire world. LOL

US is becoming a nation of hamburger flippers
The US is swapping good manufacturing jobs for lower paying service jobs. For instance, the University of South Carolina reports that between 1978 and 1990 South Carolina lost more than 58,000 manufacturing jobs. At the same time, the biggest job gains in South Carolina were in restaurants, bars, and grocery stores-more than 72,000 service jobs were created in such establishments. It?s a bad tradeoff. The lost manufacturing jobs paid an average of $279 per week. The replacement service jobs pay only $127 a week-less than half as much. The result: the living standards of working men and women are declining, and America is becoming a nation of hamburger-flippers. How can Congress consider NAFTA, which will destroy urban jobs, at the same time that it is considering the Clinton Administration?s urban empowerment program, which will try to create urban jobs by spending $800 million a year of taxpayers? money over the next 5 years to provide incentives for businesses to locate in urban areas?

NAFTA is good for investors & bad for jobs
Ultimately, NAFTA is not a trade agreement but an investment agreement. NAFTA?s principal goal is to protect the investment of US companies that build factories in Mexico. This is accomplished by reducing the risk of nationalization, by permitting the return of profits to US businesses, and by allowing unlimited access to the American markets for goods produced in Mexico.

Manufacturing industry needed for self-defense
Manufacturing is vitally important for this reason: without the ability to manufacture, the US cannot defend itself. Manufacturing is important because it provides the greatest number of high-paying US jobs. These are the types of jobs that US workers need if they are to buy a house, build a retirement nest egg, and create a better future for themselves. It is just plain wrong to think that ?progress? as a nation requires shifting from a manufacturing economy to a service economy.

NAFTA will encourage illegal immigration
[It is a myth that] NAFTA will reduce illegal immigration. As manufacturing in northern Mexico expands, hundreds of thousands of Mexican workers will be drawn north. They will quickly find that wages in the Mexican maquiladora plants cannot compete with wages anywhere in the US. Out of economic necessity, many of these mobile workers will consider illegally immigrating into the US. In short, NAFTA has the potential to increase illegal immigration, not decrease it.

NAFTA allows prison-made Chinese textiles into US via Mexico
The US apparel market is further opened under NAFTA to producers operating out of Mexico. An exception is that a substantial portion of the apparel made in Mexican factories must use fabric manufactured in North America. The intent is to protect US and Canadian textile jobs. However, Chinese and other foreign textile makers have already figured a way around this provision by building their own factories in Mexico. NAFTA establishes rules that deny preferential treatment for goods produced outside of North America. The way for a Japanese or European company to get preferential treatment, of course, is to build a factory in Mexico. US textile makers who want to be competitive will be forced to move jobs to Mexico or go out of business. Assume the US could put enough customs agents along the border to inspect every item exported from Mexico to the US. Are those customs agents going to be able to tell the difference between a shirt made by prison labor in China and a shirt made in Mexico

Here was a list of the things he wanted to accomplish... How many of them have been accomplished in the almost 20 years since?

The goals of United We Stand America include:
To get our economy moving and put our people back to work.
To balance the budget.
To pay off our nation?s debts.
To build an efficient and cost-effective health care system.
To make our neighborhoods and streets safe from crime and violence.
To create the finest public schools in the world for our children.
To pass on the American Dream to our children, making whatever fair shared sacrifices are necessary.

On Government Reform: United We Stand America: create government from the people
The purpose of United We Stand America is to give the people a voice. You own United We Stand America. UWSA?s goals include:
To re-create a government that comes from the people-not at the people.
To reform the federal government at all levels to eliminate fraud, waste, and abuse.
To have a government where the elected, appointed, and career officials come to serve and not to cash in.
To get rid of foreign lobbyists.
To get rid of political action committees.

[12clicks]

sadly, too many of the burger flippers also falsely claim to be adult webmasters.

[Caligari]

The goals of United We Stand America include:
To get our economy moving and put our people back to work.
To balance the budget.
To pay off our nation?s debts.
To build an efficient and cost-effective health care system.
To make our neighborhoods and streets safe from crime and violence.
To create the finest public schools in the world for our children.
To pass on the American Dream to our children, making whatever fair shared sacrifices are necessary.

On Government Reform: United We Stand America: create government from the people
The purpose of United We Stand America is to give the people a voice. You own United We Stand America. UWSA?s goals include:
To re-create a government that comes from the people-not at the people.
To reform the federal government at all levels to eliminate fraud, waste, and abuse.
To have a government where the elected, appointed, and career officials come to serve and not to cash in.
To get rid of foreign lobbyists.
To get rid of political action committees.

create government from the people? what a ridiculous concept.

If he tried any of those things as president he would have been immediately terminated..with extreme prejudice.

I'm sure he realized his chances were slim as you have to be an idiot like Bush, a slick salesman like Clinton or a puppet like Obama to be elected.

WTF, I voted for him.

[Vendzilla]

I think I still have my Perot button somewhere. Loved him in the debates

Still hate NAFTA

[seeandsee]

mc donald is twisting in his grave :D

[Rochard]

I remember when NAFTA went through. What a fucking piece of shit that was - Let's take American jobs and move them to Mexico. Wonderful.

Here's the solution.... Trade embargos. There is nothing made in other countries that we cannot make ourselves. In other words, the Germans should not be making Volkswagons in Mexico to sell in America. You want to sell a car in the US, it needs to be American made. (We can make exceptions for smaller car makers like Jaguar, etc.)

Electronics too - Yeah, it might just double the price of an iPod but maybe we need that. I walked my kid to the bus this morning and every fucking kid had an iPod. We are so spoiled it's not funny. We can plunk down $300 for an iPod for our kids to listen to on the bus, but in Africa they can't afford $2 a day to feed their family.

If you want to sell it in the United States, it needs to be made here. Period.

[L-Pink]

If Perot looked like John Kennedy or Bill Clinton he would have been a two term president.

.

[CaptainHowdy]

I flip pancake tits ...

[Caligari]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

If Perot looked like John Kennedy or Bill Clinton he would have been a two term president.

.

unfortunately i think he would have ended up looking like Kennedy after Nov 23rd, 1963.
anyone that progressive and unable to be bought is asking for a bullet.

[Caligari]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I remember when NAFTA went through. What a fucking piece of shit that was - Let's take American jobs and move them to Mexico. Wonderful.

Here's the solution.... Trade embargos. There is nothing made in other countries that we cannot make ourselves. In other words, the Germans should not be making Volkswagons in Mexico to sell in America. You want to sell a car in the US, it needs to be American made. (We can make exceptions for smaller car makers like Jaguar, etc.)

If you want to sell it in the United States, it needs to be made here. Period.

repeal NAFTA and other B.S. programs which give incentives for companies to do business out of the country.

i would love to find an online vendor who sells only U.S. made products and i mean everything from clothes to cars. i would affiliate the hell out of that program.

i'm not a nationalist but if the U.S. continues to sink everyone is going to suffer, the writing is on the wall...

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

If Perot looked like John Kennedy or Bill Clinton he would have been a two term president.

.

I almost forgot about the Reform Party...not quite as looney as the Tea Party, but damn it, they sure as hell tried!

Ross Perot helped get Bill Clinton elected in 1992 and 1996, just like Ralph Nader helped Dubya get elected over Gore in 2000.

Now if only Ron Paul would run as an independent 3rd party candidate, that would essentially guarantee an Obama win in 2012.



ADG

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Caligari

repeal NAFTA and other B.S. programs which give incentives for companies to do business out of the country.

i would love to find an online vendor who sells only U.S. made products and i mean everything from clothes to cars. i would affiliate the hell out of that program.

i'm not a nationalist but if the U.S. continues to sink everyone is going to suffer, the writing is on the wall...

Years ago I worked for an Iranian family. The US government gave them millions of dollars in loans to come to the US. They opened up a dry cleaning business. They also imported a dozen family members, and paid them huge salaries to basically do nothing.

This is why foreigners own dry cleaners, and 7-11s. They get loans from the US government, go to school for a trade, and then run a business. I think it's great that people want to come to the US, but long before we are giving loans to foreigners we should be giving loans to Americans....

We are all immigrants to some degree, but no one gave my fucking family millions to come to the US. They came with only the shirts on their backs.

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by Caligari

create government from the people? what a ridiculous concept.

He was referring to getting lobyists/money out of washington. Change things so that it's what it was meant to be, a government made up of regional representatives that voted based on what their constituents wanted... Of course to do that you'd have to have everyone stop voting along party lines, but at least getting big business out of washington would be a good thing.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

I almost forgot about the Reform Party...not quite as looney as the Tea Party, but damn it, they sure as hell tried!

I always wonder what it is about a fiscally responsible grass roots party that some people find to be "looney"

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Caligari

repeal NAFTA and other B.S. programs which give incentives for companies to do business out of the country.

i would love to find an online vendor who sells only U.S. made products and i mean everything from clothes to cars. i would affiliate the hell out of that program.

i'm not a nationalist but if the U.S. continues to sink everyone is going to suffer, the writing is on the wall...

Proof positive is when I heard that Levis are American Made anymore

[TheSquealer]

As goofy as he could be with his euphemisms, he put Clinton in his place many times in the debates and it was often very comical.

[TheSquealer]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

If Perot looked like John Kennedy or Bill Clinton he would have been a two term president.

.

It was certainly possible. Don't forget that at the time, he was actually doing very well. His popularity sank only after he pulled out of the race and then announced he was back in (with a murky and dubious explanation about his daughter being blackmailed or something).

Clinton was not doing so hot, was only the governor of the nations shittiest and most insignificant and poorest performing state and was also starting to catch hell for the whitewater stuff, banking scandals, the dead bodies and so on at that time. If Perot would not have pulled out like he did, he probably could have went the distance.

[Dvae]

Originally Posted by Tempest

US is becoming a nation of hamburger flippers - Ross Perot 1993

He also said "I'm all ears"

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

I always wonder what it is about a fiscally responsible grass roots party that some people find to be "looney"

Status quo is very comforting for people, even if the status quo is circling the drain. The whole 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' attitude stands firm for them until broke means it is in ruins.

Politics in North America has turned in to cheering for a team rather than basing decisions on policy and actions.

But I think you know that...

[My Pimp]

I am not sure about this .

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

sadly, too many of the burger flippers also falsely claim to be adult webmasters.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

I always wonder what it is about a fiscally responsible grass roots party that some people find to be "looney"

Still no answer?

[Jarmusch]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

sadly, too many of the burger flippers also falsely claim to be adult webmasters.

Falsely? These days you only need to register at GFY to become an adult webmaster. Didn't you know that?

[GatorB]

He also wanted to increase the gas tax by another 50 cents a gallon.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by Jarmusch

Falsely? These days you only need to register at GFY to become an adult webmaster. Didn't you know that?

Oops, my bad.

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Years ago I worked for an Iranian family. The US government gave them millions of dollars in loans to come to the US. They opened up a dry cleaning business. They also imported a dozen family members, and paid them huge salaries to basically do nothing.

This is why foreigners own dry cleaners, and 7-11s. They get loans from the US government, go to school for a trade, and then run a business. I think it's great that people want to come to the US, but long before we are giving loans to foreigners we should be giving loans to Americans....

We are all immigrants to some degree, but no one gave my fucking family millions to come to the US. They came with only the shirts on their backs.

They didn't wear shoes or pants, just shirts?

Thought you might like this:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

I always wonder what it is about a fiscally responsible grass roots party that some people find to be "looney"

CARLSON: Well, I think, you know, the Reform Party was too crazy even for Jesse Ventura. Let's pause and ponder that for a minute. I mean, the Reform Party, a fist fight broke out during their meeting...

BLITZER: Many fist fights.

CARLSON: ... it's unbelievable --- vindicating those of us who said for years this is the largest collection of wackos outside Star Trek conventions.

Let's see, the Party's founder, Ross Perot quit in disgust, there were actual fist fights on the convention floor, there have been numerous lawsuits between Reform Party rivals, there have been various political fringe groups that have tried to infiltrate and take over the Party, and the result is that the Reform Party for all intents and purposes imploded in 2000 (after only 5 years) due to in-fighting between competing factions.

The Reform Party is no longer a political force of any kind in this country (they received all of 481 votes nationally in the 2008 Presidential Election).

Ex-Pro Wrestler Jesse Ventura, who was the most prominent Reform Party candidate to get elected, called the Party, ''hopelessly dysfunctional.'' when he quit the Reform Party in 2000.

Yup, you're right as always 12Clunks, nothing looney about any of that.



ADG

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

I almost forgot about the Reform Party...not quite as looney as the Tea Party, but damn it, they sure as hell tried!

the above statement, if taken to be written in english and expected to be understood in english, implies that the Tea Party is looney.

The below statement, if written in english and expected to be understood in english, has zero to do with the statement above that the tea party is looney.

Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

Let's see, the Party's founder, Ross Perot quit in disgust, there were actual fist fights on the convention floor, there have been numerous lawsuits between Reform Party rivals, there have been various political fringe groups that have tried to infiltrate and take over the Party, and the result is that the Reform Party for all intents and purposes imploded in 2000 (after only 5 years) due to in-fighting between competing factions.

The Reform Party is no longer a political force of any kind in this country (they received all of 481 votes nationally in the 2008 Presidential Election).

Ex-Pro Wrestler Jesse Ventura, who was the most prominent Reform Party candidate to get elected, called the Party, ''hopelessly dysfunctional.'' when he quit the Reform Party in 2000.

Yup, you're right as always 12Clunks, nothing looney about any of that.



ADG

most people who call the tea party names do so out of an inability to communicate

[12clicks]

yeah, tea party.

[Caligari]

Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

I almost forgot about the Reform Party...not quite as looney as the Tea Party, but damn it, they sure as hell tried!

Yeah really, their agenda was completely insane

The goals of United We Stand America include:
To get our economy moving and put our people back to work.
To balance the budget.
To pay off our nation?s debts.
To build an efficient and cost-effective health care system.
To make our neighborhoods and streets safe from crime and violence.
To create the finest public schools in the world for our children.
To pass on the American Dream to our children, making whatever fair shared sacrifices are necessary.

On Government Reform: United We Stand America: create government from the people
The purpose of United We Stand America is to give the people a voice. You own United We Stand America. UWSA?s goals include:
To re-create a government that comes from the people-not at the people.
To reform the federal government at all levels to eliminate fraud, waste, and abuse.
To have a government where the elected, appointed, and career officials come to serve and not to cash in.
To get rid of foreign lobbyists.
To get rid of political action committees.

I mean, could you imagine such crazy talk about getting rid of lobbyists, bolstering the public school system, making health care sane and paying off the debt instead of just raising the debt ceiling to make everything better;)

Just nuts I tells ya.

[DaddyHalbucks]

NAFTA is still a great idea, but spoiled lazy American union workers don't want to upgrade their skills, which is what is necessary for NAFTA to work to the advantage of the USA. They want to be paid for seniority, they want COLAs, etc..etc.. They want top dollar for menial work.

Hungrier foreign workers will compete hard on merit and cost.