Barefootsies

Anyone else watch, "The Cartel", on Netflix?

This is not about the mafia, but about the public school system and unions. While supposedly for the entire U.S., it mainly focuses on New Jersey, who apparently spends more per student than any other state in the union.

This documentary more a less focuses on the problem with government (enter 12clicks) where a system is broken, and the solution is to tax more, and throw more money at a broken system. This essentially touches on the gross waste and how it does not improve results or test scores. Something fairly common of government on the whole.

One again, the U.S. spends more than any other western country, and our 'quality' (much like healthcare) is below many of the 2nd world countries of the world.

It was an interesting couple of hours. A lot of it has been exposed or mentioned before, but it still is a good documentary. I always wonder what those with kids think about such things. I would be LIVID if I had children, was paying this money in taxes, and these numbers were correct in regards to my kid's chances (college, graduation rates, etc.).

Discuss.

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Choopa Phil

where in new jersey was this focused on? Where I live our school systems are ranked very high for the state

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Barefootsies

It covered a number of different school districts, both district and private/charter.

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BJ

New jersey is one of the smallest states. What are the odds?

wiggitywack

The public HS I went to in NJ was super competitive and very good. The people I am still in touch with from HS are doing very well and are generally successful. Of course, the property taxes are off the charts to pay for it. I'll check out the movie..

Just Alex

This is going to be good.

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Shotsie

Whether or not kids do well in school has a lot more to do with parenting than with a teacher's skill level. If the kids aren't instilled with a strong work ethic from an early age, or they just aren't very intelligent, the best teachers in the world aren't going to help them. That's not to downplay the importance of competent teachers-I believe good teaching can make the difference between a mediocre student and an exceptional student-but the problem is more of a cultural problem than a fiscal one. I don't think the teachers in New Jersey are any better or worse than anywhere else in the country.


I have a couple friends that went through the public school system in New Jersey, one of them went to pharmacy school and is the head pharmacist at a store for one of the big chains, another got accepted to West Point, went through the military academy and then got accepted to Hahnemann University Hospital School of Medicine. He's going through his residency to become some kind of surgeon. I also know a couple kids from New Jersey who are heroin addicts, degenerate gamblers, drug dealers or working dead-end jobs and doing nothing with their lives. What all these people have in common is that they grew up in the same neighborhood and had the same oppurtunities, but most of the fuck-ups came from broken homes, not necessarily poor, just victims of bad upbringing.


I would be pretty skeptical about a movie like that to begin with judging by the timing of it's release. Contrary to what was thrown around in the media when the shit was going down in Wisconsin, the average teacher's salary in New Jersey is only about 40,000 a year take home, when you total in pension and their healthcare plan it's about 58,000, and they live in one of the most expensive states in the country. Keep in mind that teachers are paid less than people in other professions that require similar degrees also.




Fun Fact: Attendance rates in Camden highschools are so fucking bad they actually started offering the kids 100$ if they showed up for the first 15 days of school.

Barefootsies

Indeed. However, they apparently spend more than any other state in education.

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Enough Said.

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L-Pink

I don't have children and pay more than $1,000 a month in school taxes.

.

bronco67

My wife is a teacher, so she'll probably have interest in watching...thanks for the tip.

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ShellyCrash

Public schools vary so widely state to state it's wrong to study one area and try to pass judgement on the entire system.

The public schools I went to in New Jersey were very good, smaller classrooms, invested teachers, etc - but they were suburban schools. I don't know if I could say the same for schools in Elizabeth, Jersey City or Newark though.

Public schools in FL are pretty horrid in comparison. Huge classes, overworked teachers, lack of resources, etc.

New Jersey suffers from a problem though I would suspect is seen in a few other states such as Illinois. There are alot of people working for the public school system that don't actually WORK for the public school system. It doesn't start or stop with public schools either.

I guess it's something American's have to balance. Low state taxes / poor schools to high state taxes / good schools. You could also balance out savings living in a low state tax area w/ price of private schooling.

As a tax payer I don't want to see the government turn it's back on public schooling, but to be honest, if I had children I would probably place thiem in private Montessori schools. Especially in Florida. Public schools here are complete garbage.

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Rochard

And there it is.

Last night I was helping my six grade daughter do homework and discovered she was dong Algebra. Not pre-Algebra, but Algebra. We took Algebra in 8th grade when I was a kid twenty years ago.

The problem isn't the level of teaching. The tools they have these days are amazing - No more overhead projectors they have schedule a week in advance only to have a bulb burn out; These days they have a camera mounted above their desk that ends up being projected on the chalk board - and they can also stream directly from their computer. They still have text books, but the text books now are colorful with lots of graphic design work and come with a website with videos of everything they learn in school - which comes in handy after school when mommy and daddy can't figure out their math homework. Yeah, the class sizes have gotten bigger, but now each class has a full time teachers aid.

The problem is at home. I have a friend up the street who has two kids, both of whom are failing. Their daughter is friends with my daughter. Mother is a nut case (and legally unable to see her kids), father works full time and is rarely home, and the live in girlfriend is only so interested in raising kids that aren't hers. The end result is no one is there to supervise the kids, help with homework, watch over them... In the past two years the kid went from being involved in after school sports to being a latch key kid who rarely see her only parent. (First day of school their kid knocked on our door at 8am telling us that she missed her bus and her father was at work and not picking up his cell phone - First day of school and she had no one turn to.)

And I'm seeing this with a lot of kids these days.

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modF

It's also the most densely populated state in the Union.

The simple fact is, a good portion of the NJ government is corrupt, and so are the unions..

I don't blame 90% of the teachers or the administrators, I blame each principal making $225k+ per year, as well as the superintendents.

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ShellyCrash

QFT

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DEA

interesting read ill check it out