car guys: Cadillac vrs Mercedes

[Grapesoda]

so I see this: 2011 Mercedes-Benz CL-Class 6.3L V8 AMG, and I'm think my car, the cts v coupe, was about 66k. bit more horsepower and a bit less torque. you think caddy would be comparable if GM put another 100k into the car?

same with the vette, the vette is always bagged out as shit and then compared to a 100K+ porche or audi, yet my vette was 40K ... and new vettes now are 50-70K. (not counting the top of the line zr1, and what's a top of the line porche??? 180K)

thoughts?

(okay on reading a bit more I'm seeing 2 different HP/TQ rattings for the merc... pretty strange

http://www.mbencino.com/Los+Angeles-...6BA028099.html

[keysync]

BMW M3 coupe 60k 414 ponies.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by keysync

BMW M3 coupe 60k 414 ponies.

never really been interested in BMW. although the m3 is very popular.. the weird thing about BMW is I never see the car being driven hard... I drive the mountains a lot and the beamers are really a no show on any driving skills set.... although around town you can always count on a beamer to cut you off or pull some other stupid shit... never could figure that one out...

[vsex]

All depends on what you are looking for. I personally would rather have the Caddy and know I didn't pay a stupid amount of money for a similar car. My Vette (Z06) was $92k, and I put $10k into it to boost it to 640hp. My neighbor paid $325k for his Ferrari 599 and after he drove mine, he liked the vette more. go figure......

[Supz]

Originally Posted by bm bradley

so I see this: 2011 Mercedes-Benz CL-Class 6.3L V8 AMG, and I'm think my car, the cts v coupe, was about 66k. bit more horsepower and a bit less torque. you think caddy would be comparable if GM put another 100k into the car?

same with the vette, the vette is always bagged out as shit and then compared to a 100K+ porche or audi, yet my vette was 40K ... and new vettes now are 50-70K. (not counting the top of the line zr1, and what's a top of the line porche??? 180K)

thoughts?

(okay on reading a bit more I'm seeing 2 different HP/TQ rattings for the merc... pretty strange

http://www.mbencino.com/Los+Angeles-...6BA028099.html

With a difference in price, the lease payments are probably not as far off as the price of the car. This will show the you difference in how a german car keeps value and how an american car keeps value. I also see a lot of people with 10 years out MERCs, Rarely ever see a 10 year old GM car that isnt a piece of scrap. Yea, maybe not the CSV, but if you think its made any different then the Deville, except for parts that make the car go faster, its not.

I do like the way the new Regal looks though..

[SmutHammer]

I have a clk benz with 190k miles and it still drives like new, with just normal upkeep. very solid car, my friend hit a dear @ 70 or 80 mph and had close to zero damadge. 99 model and still get compliments all the time on it. fo me, my normal driving car choice will always be mercedese.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by vsex

All depends on what you are looking for. I personally would rather have the Caddy and know I didn't pay a stupid amount of money for a similar car. My Vette (Z06) was $92k, and I put $10k into it to boost it to 640hp. My neighbor paid $325k for his Ferrari 599 and after he drove mine, he liked the vette more. go figure......

I've actually heard that before from guys with carrera's and audi's

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Supz

With a difference in price, the lease payments are probably not as far off as the price of the car. This will show the you difference in how a german car keeps value and how an american car keeps value. I also see a lot of people with 10 years out MERCs, Rarely ever see a 10 year old GM car that isnt a piece of scrap. Yea, maybe not the CSV, but if you think its made any different then the Deville, except for parts that make the car go faster, its not.

I do like the way the new Regal looks though..

interesting point...

[acctman]

always buy non-american when it comes to cars. Sorry but america makes shitty cars. with the exception of old muscle cars, most if not all american cars require a ridiculous about of servicing and always have problems. german car can easily go over 100k+ if you do the regular maintenance which is usually free if you get a nice package deal. I love BMWs

[moviebiz]

+1 for merc as more quality car then caddy

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by acctman

always buy non-american when it comes to cars. Sorry but america makes shitty cars. with the exception of old muscle cars, most if not all american cars require a ridiculous about of servicing and always have problems. german car can easily go over 100k+ if you do the regular maintenance which is usually free if you get a nice package deal. I love BMWs

my vette went about 140K with no issues... cam and crank sensor is it.. regular maintenance

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by moviebiz

+1 for merc as more quality car then caddy

so you think another $100K in to a gm won't make any diff, or did you not understant the thread?

[DateDoc]

The Caddy is a nice car but I'd get a Mercedes. Not the CL63 or CL65 but the 2012 CL550 4Matic with the biturbo v8 engine (it snows a lot here).

[DVTimes]

Cadillac = crappy yank car, built for yanks. Not driven outside the USA

Mercedes-Benz = High quality German made car. Driven in most countries.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

Cadillac = crappy yank car, built for yanks. Not driven outside the USA

Mercedes-Benz = High quality German made car. Driven in most countries.

having an issue with reading comprehension? the question is do you think gm could compete with merc if they put another 100k in to the cars... not which car is better... not sure what the deal is with blokes but generally here in the USA when one car cost 100k more than another car there is a reason... BTW caddys are very popular in china

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by DateDoc

The Caddy is a nice car but I'd get a Mercedes. Not the CL63 or CL65 but the 2012 CL550 4Matic with the biturbo v8 engine (it snows a lot here).

on the cts you can have all wheele drive BTW

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...n-germany.html

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by bm bradley

having an issue with reading comprehension? the question is do you think gm could compete with merc if they put another 100k in to the cars... not which car is better... not sure what the deal is with blokes but generally here in the USA when one car cost 100k more than another car there is a reason... BTW caddys are very popular in china

just buy a merc.

simple.

[rogueteens]

Never been a fan of Mercs but i'd have one over a Cadillac any day of the week

[xNetworx]

I had an SL for 5 years. Only put 22k miles on it. Drove it like a baby and had all service at the dealer. Shit starting breaking left and right in year 5 so I ditched it. For a $95k car, I can honestly say it turned out being a piece of shit. The convertible top's pump broke. A $2800 fix. I used that top motor maybe 50-100 times in 5 years. Seriously fuck Mercedes. That new Caddy coupe is a fuckin beast.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

just buy a merc.

simple.

yep, that's why the germans voted caddy the car of the year. very simple indeed
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...n-germany.html

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by rogueteens

Never been a fan of Mercs but i'd have one over a Cadillac any day of the week

so you can't understand the thread either I take it?

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by StripperCash

I had an SL for 5 years. Only put 22k miles on it. Drove it like a baby and had all service at the dealer. Shit starting breaking left and right in year 5 so I ditched it. For a $95k car, I can honestly say it turned out being a piece of shit. The convertible top's pump broke. A $2800 fix. I used that top motor maybe 50-100 times in 5 years. Seriously fuck Mercedes. That new Caddy coupe is a fuckin beast.

I've heard about quality issues since Mercedes went with a more America manufacturing style... I'm thinking another 100k in the caddys and look the fuck out for sure

[DateDoc]

Originally Posted by bm bradley

on the cts you can have all wheele drive BTW

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...n-germany.html

I like the extra room in the CL. The problem with a US car costing the same is perceived value. Not too many cars over $100k made in the US.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by DateDoc

I like the extra room in the CL. The problem with a US car costing the same is perceived value. Not too many cars over $100k made in the US.

they dont cost the same, that's what I'm saying... I've read a few times that caddy is working on an upscale car to compete with rr... and they did an okay job on the v series... wish the interiors was a bit better made but hey... it's still a fun car to drive, but no room in the coupe at all... the sedan isn't too bad..

[HandballJim]

No, the Mercedes is still better in my opinion.

[DateDoc]

Originally Posted by bm bradley

they dont cost the same, that's what I'm saying... I've read a few times that caddy is working on an upscale car to compete with rr... and they did an okay job on the v series... wish the interiors was a bit better made but hey... it's still a fun car to drive, but no room in the coupe at all... the sedan isn't too bad..

I understand what you are saying, but the perceived value a customer sees when you add that much money into materials, fit and finish to make a Caddy cost that much is going to be a hindrance. You'd be more apt to here people say, "$150k for a Caddy???" than "$150k for a Mercedes?" The Mercedes brand has more perceived value built into it.

[shimmy2]

many Cadillacs mfg in sweden under the GM marquee. as for the MBZ those star cars have some nice trannys, owned 3 new ones and 1 used one, never again. only way to do is to lease them under warranty then youre still fucked cause the loaner they give you is crap and you're making that monster lease payment while ur wheels are down

[rogueteens]

Originally Posted by bm bradley

so you can't understand the thread either I take it?

I couldn't care what they added to the Caddy, it'll always be an american car and for that reason ... I'm out.

[scuba steve]

I'm all for BMW and love M3s but the newest series weighs a lot. I've driven a couple as well as a 06, and while there is horsepower differences, the weight makes them almost feel the same. If they could knock off a couple hundred on the new M3. Wow

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by DateDoc

I understand what you are saying, but the perceived value a customer sees when you add that much money into materials, fit and finish to make a Caddy cost that much is going to be a hindrance. You'd be more apt to here people say, "$150k for a Caddy???" than "$150k for a Mercedes?" The Mercedes brand has more perceived value built into it.

yes that could be an issue... not for me though...

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by rogueteens

I couldn't care what they added to the Caddy, it'll always be an american car and for that reason ... I'm out.

your open mind will take you far

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by scuba steve

I'm all for BMW and love M3s but the newest series weighs a lot. I've driven a couple as well as a 06, and while there is horsepower differences, the weight makes them almost feel the same. If they could knock off a couple hundred on the new M3. Wow

yeah but the cts v weighs about 400-500 more than the m3. that was the issue I had with the cts v coupe... the 1000 more coming from a vette... getting used to it now. that weight brings in the smoother, quieter ride

[Chris]

how about this
you just send me your coupe and all your problems are solved?

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Chris

how about this
you just send me your coupe and all your problems are solved?

[MediumPimpin]

I owned a Vette, two M3's and two 911's, would I buy a Vette or Cadillac now, hell no, they just don't compare in real world or track day driving, sorry neither is there yet.

[vsex]

Originally Posted by MediumPimpin

I owned a Vette, two M3's and two 911's, would I buy a Vette or Cadillac now, hell no, they just don't compare in real world or track day driving, sorry neither is there yet.

obviously you haven't driven a newer Z06 or ZR1

[BareBacked]

I like caddys but they fall apart
Destroyed a few of them

[SmutHammer]

the problem with caddy is there are to many old beat up ones still on the road, and any tom dick or harry can get one. my brother wants a cts, and while it is a great car, and not cheap. it doesn't have the same prestige to say, I drive a benz....

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Ed Hammer

the problem with caddy is there are to many old beat up ones still on the road, and any tom dick or harry can get one. my brother wants a cts, and while it is a great car, and not cheap. it doesn't have the same prestige to say, I drive a benz....

maybe before the release of the baby mercs... not so sure now..

[slapass]

Originally Posted by Supz

With a difference in price, the lease payments are probably not as far off as the price of the car. This will show the you difference in how a german car keeps value and how an american car keeps value. I also see a lot of people with 10 years out MERCs, Rarely ever see a 10 year old GM car that isnt a piece of scrap. Yea, maybe not the CSV, but if you think its made any different then the Deville, except for parts that make the car go faster, its not.

I do like the way the new Regal looks though..

You did not base this on facts. Mercedes Benz has 3 spots in the top ten of "Worst Overall Car Resale Values". Cadillac has one spot too. Buy a Lexus or Infiniti if you want resale.

To answer the original question. Girls go, "OHHH a Mercedes." They don't do that for a caddy. Issue solved.

Forgot the link - http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story....y=lo Residual

[georgeyw]

I do not think you can compare the two, even if GM were to sell it for 100k more and do whatever else it needs to to obtain that price in the market.

GM = lacking in the ability to create a quality car.

I have owned a number of american cars and the Aussie equivalent of GM (holden) they are pieces of shit, yet I love them

Having said thta - merc / porsche / bmw = whole different type of car.

[John-ACWM]

Mercedes all the way.

[mineistaken]

Of course that cadillac would be better than that MB if "they put another 100K in it" but it does not work that way.
by the way stop calling them caddy (do a google search if you want to know what car is a caddy lol)

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by slapass

. Girls go, "OHHH a Mercedes." They don't do that for a caddy. Issue solved.

Forgot the link - http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story....y=lo Residual

not true at all about the cts v coupe, remember I spend all day with girls.... they love that caddy

[Jon Oso]

Originally Posted by georgeyw

GM = lacking in the ability to create a quality car.

I disagree. GM ABSOLUTELY has the ability to make a quality car. They made tons of them in the 60's.

It's what people are willing to pay for now. Americans won't shell out 120k for a new Chevy sedan like they will an S class Merc.

Mercedes is a company that ONLY makes luxury cars. Even the bottom range Mercs are on par with the more(most?) expensive GM models that are even remotely comparable.

This thread, while entertaining is comparing two completely different classes of cars. One is a "luxury" almost-super car made by a company that sells $9,000 cars brand new, and the other is a "luxury" almost super car made by a company that sells cars you can't touch brand new for less than ~40k.

Think of it this way, Ferrari wouldn't be able to charge what they do if they had rolled out an economy line right out of the gates. You build cars priced so that only certain people can buy them new, and you will be able to continue to charge high prices catering to a small(er) number of people. Same way that Merc does, although they definitely have a broader customer base than say Ferrari or Lamborghini, but not nearly as broad as GM.



As for the initial question? It's more than just 100k. It's also all the R&D to create the vehicle that will "compete." Power and performance wise, you can stick the new ZR1 up against just about anything that costs less than 250k. If you're looking at "extras" though, there's a lot it's missing.

If you wanted to take a new CTS-V and put the balance of the price of a new Merc whatever into it, I'm sure you could make it just as fancy, but it would just be a one-off or limited production run like Shelby or Saleen does.

[Jon Oso]

Originally Posted by bm bradley

not true at all about the cts v coupe, remember I spend all day with girls.... they love that caddy

The two girls that were in my car today kept telling me how nice it was. "This is such a nice car, I love it" they kept repeating.

Then they asked if it was a Scion. It's a WRX wagon. I almost kicked them out.

It's all about the type of girl you're around, really. The ones that are label whores probably won't know how powerful or fun the V is. The ones that have never known anyone that can afford a "new car" are just impressed that your windows roll both up AND down.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Jon Oso

The two girls that were in my car today kept telling me how nice it was. "This is such a nice car, I love it" they kept repeating.

Then they asked if it was a Scion. It's a WRX wagon. I almost kicked them out.

It's all about the type of girl you're around, really. The ones that are label whores probably won't know how powerful or fun the V is. The ones that have never known anyone that can afford a "new car" are just impressed that your windows roll both up AND down.

I've seen models impressed that the vette could go faster up a hill...

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Jon Oso

I disagree. GM ABSOLUTELY has the ability to make a quality car. They made tons of them in the 60's.

It's what people are willing to pay for now. Americans won't shell out 120k for a new Chevy sedan like they will an S class Merc.

Mercedes is a company that ONLY makes luxury cars. Even the bottom range Mercs are on par with the more(most?) expensive GM models that are even remotely comparable.

This thread, while entertaining is comparing two completely different classes of cars. One is a "luxury" almost-super car made by a company that sells $9,000 cars brand new, and the other is a "luxury" almost super car made by a company that sells cars you can't touch brand new for less than ~40k.

Think of it this way, Ferrari wouldn't be able to charge what they do if they had rolled out an economy line right out of the gates. You build cars priced so that only certain people can buy them new, and you will be able to continue to charge high prices catering to a small(er) number of people. Same way that Merc does, although they definitely have a broader customer base than say Ferrari or Lamborghini, but not nearly as broad as GM.



As for the initial question? It's more than just 100k. It's also all the R&D to create the vehicle that will "compete." Power and performance wise, you can stick the new ZR1 up against just about anything that costs less than 250k. If you're looking at "extras" though, there's a lot it's missing.

If you wanted to take a new CTS-V and put the balance of the price of a new Merc whatever into it, I'm sure you could make it just as fancy, but it would just be a one-off or limited production run like Shelby or Saleen does.

I think GM has the R&D done to put out a $160K car... and the thing about the vette is that GM purposely holds the price low because it's for every man... not just for some dip-shit banker or money guy..

[redwhiteandblue]

GM should do so much better with Cadillac. I thought Cadillac was always supposed to be America's "Rolls Royce" marque. GM needs a global prestige brand especially in Europe since it ditched SAAB. Caddy should be it but so far it hasn't really taken off over here.

[MrBottomTooth]

Cadillac is still being held back by the bad taste they left in people's mouths from the 80's onward. Just go back and look at some of the crap they put out. Front wheel drive cars with 130 hp V8s. Some of their stuff was just awful. I used to own an old Eldorado when I was around 18. Man, what a pile of shit.

The new stuff looks excellent but it will take a bit longer for everyone to forget their past disasters.