There are still some creative people in this industry but....

[stocktrader23]

From the 90's through the early 2000's it was so easy to make large sums of money online that a much larger number of people accumulated lots of cash. Out of those people the creative ones brought us new niches, website ideas, promo tools, programs etc. The industry thrived.

Fast forward a few years and it's obvious who knew what they were doing and who didn't. Everyone that lucked out in this business without knowing or at least learning anything worthwhile crashed and burned hard. Some names will pop into your head. A lot of them invested in outside businesses that failed as well, give a stupid man money and you know the results. The handful that knew what they were doing all along and those that picked it up along the way have gotten bigger and bigger. They have either cashed out big or still run things today.

I still see a lot of creative ideas from people on GFY but they don't usually have the resources to try new things. They have great ideas but the programs hanging on to the old don't want to hear them. Because they weren't lucky enough to start when a page listed in Alta Vista brought sales the same day they have had to work harder to make a living and don't typically have $100,000 or more to get some out of the box shit up and running.

A lot of old timers like to use the line of reasoning that if you were as smart as them you'd make the same money and could do your own thing. You must be stupid! In truth, no matter what anyone says, it has gotten progressively harder to make huge sums of EASY money to give people the opportunity to invest in industry changing ideas.

I don't blame existing programs for sticking with their 10 year old business models. Most of them have enough to retire no matter what happens, it is expected that they'd be lazy about innovation. Unfortunately, this has caused the entire industry to suffer from a lack of options since hardly anyone is investing in new ideas. Those that do usually keep all of the money for themselves these days.

[pornguy]

very well stated.

[SallyRand]

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

From the 90's through the early 2000's it was so easy to make large sums of money online that a much larger number of people accumulated lots of cash. Out of those people the creative ones brought us new niches, website ideas, promo tools, programs etc. The industry thrived.

Fast forward a few years and it's obvious who knew what they were doing and who didn't. Everyone that lucked out in this business without knowing or at least learning anything worthwhile crashed and burned hard. Some names will pop into your head. A lot of them invested in outside businesses that failed as well, give a stupid man money and you know the results. The handful that knew what they were doing all along and those that picked it up along the way have gotten bigger and bigger. They have either cashed out big or still run things today.

I still see a lot of creative ideas from people on GFY but they don't usually have the resources to try new things. They have great ideas but the programs hanging on to the old don't want to hear them. Because they weren't lucky enough to start when a page listed in Alta Vista brought sales the same day they have had to work harder to make a living and don't typically have $100,000 or more to get some out of the box shit up and running.

A lot of old timers like to use the line of reasoning that if you were as smart as them you'd make the same money and could do your own thing. You must be stupid! In truth, no matter what anyone says, it has gotten progressively harder to make huge sums of EASY money to give people the opportunity to invest in industry changing ideas.

I don't blame existing programs for sticking with their 10 year old business models. Most of them have enough to retire no matter what happens, it is expected that they'd be lazy about innovation. Unfortunately, this has caused the entire industry to suffer from a lack of options since hardly anyone is investing in new ideas. Those that do usually keep all of the money for themselves these days.

Excellent post and well worth repeating!

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by pornguy

very well stated.

Originally Posted by SallyRand

Excellent post and well worth repeating!

Thank you. Seeing everything stuck in a standstill is depressing. I hope some people with the resources decide to dip their toes into some new stuff soon. Successful or not it is what the industry needs to start adjusting.

[seeandsee]

well written, some good points

[3xTom]

I like to think that My company has dipped down low and came up with some very innovative and new things for our sites...

Its really sad that not to many of the affiliates have even try to send traffic to these sites even though they are converting like it was back in the the early days.

Thats ok the ones that ARE sending traffic are raking it in with our brand new social network style sites..
( Just say'in , selfless plug LOL )

But I do see alot of new innovative ideas out here I just don't see alot of the actual affiliates embracing the ones that DO churn out something other than the cookie cutter bullshit sites... over and over again..

To me as someone that builds out the sites, programs, affiliate tools, press releases etc.
Then to release the new site we work hard to build and see that jimmy ho ho with his 30 page post of "what should i name my dog" thread gets more attention than a brand new innovative site kind of gets a little disheartening to the program owners.

I have officially changed the name of free hosted galleries section here in the office to

The freeones galleries.. ( Thanks Roald )

( Again I'm just say'in )

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by 3xTom

I like to think that My company has dipped down low and came up with some very innovative and new things for our sites...

Its really sad that not to many of the affiliates have even try to send traffic to these sites even though they are converting like it was back in the the early days.

Thats ok the ones that ARE sending traffic are raking it in with our brand new social network style sites..
( Just say'in , selfless plug LOL )

But I do see alot of new innovative ideas out here I just don't see alot of the actual affiliates embracing the ones that DO churn out something other than the cookie cutter bullshit sites... over and over again..

To me as someone that builds out the sites, programs, affiliate tools, press releases etc.
Then to release the new site we work hard to build and see that jimmy ho ho with his 30 page post of "what should i name my dog" thread gets more attention than a brand new innovative site kind of gets a little disheartening to the program owners.

I have officially changed the name of free hosted galleries section here in the office to

The freeones galleries.. ( Thanks Roald )

( Again I'm just say'in )

What are these new sites?

Also, I understand where you are coming from but sponsors aren't quick to embrace new things either (on the whole). There are a lot of things right now that would bring them more traffic and sales but if you mention them to them they show you their shitty version of trying to capitalize on it and act like you are crazy for telling them how much it sucks. One example of this is RSS. Such a wonderfully useful tool that would drive tons of additional traffic to those that put it out there right. As it stands, nobody puts it out there right.

I'd really like to see which social sites you are talking about. Maybe we can give them some attention.

[Si]

The adult industry needs a shrink.

So many depressing people in this business!

[3xTom]

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

What are these new sites?

Also, I understand where you are coming from but sponsors aren't quick to embrace new things either (on the whole). There are a lot of things right now that would bring them more traffic and sales but if you mention them to them they show you their shitty version of trying to capitalize on it and act like you are crazy for telling them how much it sucks. One example of this is RSS. Such a wonderfully useful tool that would drive tons of additional traffic to those that put it out there right. As it stands, nobody puts it out there right.

I'd really like to see which social sites you are talking about. Maybe we can give them some attention.

Our newest site
Black Label Skin
and then
Brandi Love
Tempting Dreams
Toni KatVixen

Fully social and interactive
Custom CMS

RSS Feeds that carry affiliate codes ( on blacklabelskin tour but is being integrated to all the other sites as well )

Share this links that carry affiliate codes
All the sharing is for each page that it is on
pretty simple come to the tour with your affiliate code click a share this
and it shares it you dont even have to build a site. Every piece of content is shareable by the click of a button. why wouldn't people use this ? kind of blows my mind really..

[3xTom]

LoL fell to page 3 already?
This is exactly what I was talking about

I thought this was a good discussion but i guess i was wrong.

[garce]

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

Thank you. Seeing everything stuck in a standstill is depressing. I hope some people with the resources decide to dip their toes into some new stuff soon. Successful or not it is what the industry needs to start adjusting.

Up until about a month ago - maybe less, even - I was still enthusiastic about this job I have. For some reason the wind went out of my sails sometime over the last couple weeks.

Nothing to do with Epassporte - that barely affected me. Something happened, though, that makes me feel continuing down this road is pointless.

I have no desire to do this anymore.

[Zorgman]

Good info and I agree. Those with ideas tend to hide them from everyone.

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by 3xTom

LoL fell to page 3 already?
This is exactly what I was talking about

I thought this was a good discussion but i guess i was wrong.

By the way, I did look at your sites and like the direction you've gone. Something about them turned me off a bit but I haven't figured out what exactly. Was withholding response until I could put it into words.

Interesting idea for sure though. What content do you provide to promote it?

[izzynew]

Originally Posted by 3xTom

LoL fell to page 3 already?
This is exactly what I was talking about

I thought this was a good discussion but i guess i was wrong.

I'm giving this a bump to the top because it is a good discussion.
But I need time to clear my thoughts before I join in.

[izzynew]

Originally Posted by 3xTom

Our newest site
Black Label Skin
and then
Brandi Love
Tempting Dreams
Toni KatVixen

Fully social and interactive
Custom CMS

RSS Feeds that carry affiliate codes ( on blacklabelskin tour but is being integrated to all the other sites as well )

Share this links that carry affiliate codes
All the sharing is for each page that it is on
pretty simple come to the tour with your affiliate code click a share this
and it shares it you dont even have to build a site. Every piece of content is shareable by the click of a button. why wouldn't people use this ? kind of blows my mind really..

I've had a look at your sites a couple of times and I like the interactivity idea.
I particularly liked Tempting Dreams, as I thought it might fill the 'women's market'. So I and showed it to my wife to see what she thought.
She liked what she saw and went through to the join page, but then she said she was put off by the picture of Brandi Love. Not that there's anything wrong with Brandi Love, but she instantly thought that picture gave the impression the site was geared more to men than women.
But she's picky. So I don't know.

[Trend]

Originally Posted by izzynew

I've had a look at your sites a couple of times and I like the interactivity idea.
I particularly liked Tempting Dreams, as I thought it might fill the 'women's market'. So I and showed it to my wife to see what she thought.
She liked what she saw and went through to the join page, but then she said she was put off by the picture of Brandi Love. Not that there's anything wrong with Brandi Love, but she instantly thought that picture gave the impression the site was geared more to men than women.
But she's picky. So I don't know.

ok so I went to Tempting Dreams which I like a lot and didn't see a picture of Brandi on the join page? But this image made me laugh: http://temptingdreams.com/404

[Loki]

I'll throw my few cents into the ring as it were....

I remember years back when this alllll started, and for a long time it was in fact the online porn industry that 'drove' the tech of the web, streaming video, live chat, flash multimedia all started in porn and then worked it's way into the 'mainstream' side of the web, mainstream in a sense would 'copy' from those it deemed to be the cancer killing the web.

But somewhere down the road we as a collective community got complacent, we stop being the innovators that we once were and we instead became stagnant, and we literally lost our stranglehold on the internet.

Now we are actually for the first time that I can remember BEHIND in the 'tech & innovations game'

What i find to be somewhat disturbing (and it was sort of already touched on here) is that NO ONE want's to try new things (or at least be the "first" to try something)

Case in point, a few years ago I developed what I dubbed C.V.M's (Custom Virtual Models) where I would take a series of photos and create a 3D Toon copy of ANY model (and you'd be hard pressed to see the real diff between the live and toon counterparts!)

I shopped it around to 10 companies and ALL of them said the same thing:

(1) Who else has gotten on board so far?
(2) Get back to me once a few more people have signed on

Long story short NO ONE got on board and I shelved the project, I brought it back a few months back and went to a handful of companies / models and I offered them a FREE starter package JUST so I would not hear (who else has done it so far) when I took it public, and even for FREE no one has yet to turn in the required content needed for me to create their virtual models.

The same thing has happened with other projects I've attempted to do over the years, in the end I hate to say it but the bulk of the ppl 'running the show' are just too damn lazy these days to care....... UNTIL their profits start to dip at least.

-Loki-

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by Loki

I'll throw my few cents into the ring as it were....

I remember years back when this alllll started, nd for a long time it was in fact the online porn industry that 'drove' the tech of the web, streaming video, live chat, flash multimedia all started in porn and then worked it's way into the 'mainstream' side of the web, mainstream in a sence would 'copy' from those it deemed to be th ecancer killig the web.

But somewhere down the road we as a collective comunity got complacent, we stop being the inovators that we once were and we instead became stagnent, and we literally lost our stranglehold on the internet.

Now we are actually for the first time that I can remember BEHIND in the 'tech & inovations game'

What i find to be somewhat disturbing (and it was sort of already touched on here) is that NO ONE want's to try new things (or at least be the "first" to try somehting)

Case in point, a few years ago I delveloped what I dubbed C.V.M's (Custom Virtual Models) where I would take a series of photos and create a 3D Toon copy of ANY model (and you'd be hard pressed to see the real diff between the live and toon counterparts!)

I shopped it around to 10 companies and ALL of them said the same thing:

(1) Who else has gotten on board so far?
(2) Get back to me once a few more people have signed on

Long story short NO ONE got on board and I shelved the project, I brought it back a few months back and went to a handful of companies / models and I offered them a FREE starter package JUST so I would not hear (who else has done it so far) when I took it public, and even for FREE no one has yet to turn in the required content needed for me to create their virtual models.

The same thing has happened with other projects I've attempted to do over the years, in the end I hate to say it but the bulk of the ppl 'running the show' are just too damn lazy these days to care....... UNTIL their profits start to dip at least.

-Loki-

(spelling errors left in for your enjoyment lol)

I approached a lot of big programs years ago about some new tech that would make things run smoother for both programs and affiliates. I mean a lot fucking smoother. I got the same cold shoulder you did. Most of them asked "What would I want that for?" and 3 months later put out their own shit version of it. To this day nobody has done it right. I would consider doing it another way but it would take between $200,000 and $1,000,000 for me to do it by myself. If programs participated it would fall under shit they already do for the most part and would cut those costs to a pittance each.

[Loki]

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

I approached a lot of big programs years ago about some new tech that would make things run smoother for both programs and affiliates. I mean a lot fucking smoother. I got the same cold shoulder you did. Most of them asked "What would I want that for?" and 3 months later put out their own shit version of it. To this day nobody has done it right. I would consider doing it another way but it would take between $200,000 and $1,000,000 for me to do it by myself. If programs participated it would fall under shit they already do for the most part and would cut those costs to a pittance each.

I totally hear you, I can't count the number of things I've tried to implement over the years that would not only benefit all sponsors involved BUT also help the affiliates that were promoting those sponsors lol.

I figure allot of it stems from their (sponsors) greed and fear, then sliding down the list I'll call it general lack of vision.

I've said this since I started posting on boards, too many people don't think of this as a BUSINESS, Just because we sell sex and sex accessories does not make it any less of a business!

I suffer the same issue as other 'innovators' lack of working capital to pull off my ideas and then eventually the diminishing drive to do it all myself lol.

-Loki-

[3xTom]

I have to totally agree with you both here,

When you do put in the time and effort and cash to do something yourself
and everyone looks at you like your a total loon, when all your trying to do
is bring something new to the playing table.

Gets a little frustrating and you sooner or later just say fuck it and move on.

Its really sad the way things have happened in this industry.
People complain about new and improved and not the same cookie cutter sites and tools but the minute someone comes up with something worthwhile or innovative
they then bitch about that as well.

By the way Stocktrader, We have slacked a bit on the tools, we used to be very good at developing some of the first and state of the art tools in the business ( jaymancash side ) then I noticed that over the last 2 years noone was using them I would spend hours and hours and lots of cash developing brand new tools for affiliates to use only to end up with noone using them. I would offer to affiliates to build or develop something for them to use just contact me and let me know what you need.. Guess what? NO ONE would contact me for ANYTHING. So yes we have fallen a little behind on ad tools for affiliates to use. But again I offer my services to any affiliate out here that needs something to promote our sites with Tell me what you want or need or would like to use and I'll do my best to get it for you.

People have gotten lazy and honestly You cant hardly even give away free work to them anymore..

Lets look back a little
It started with affiliates having to buy content themselves and build sites themselves to promote with.
It then moved into sponsors building the galleries for the affiliate.
Then to sponsors even submitting the galleries on the behalf of the affiliate.
Giving the affiliate free domains, paying the bandwidth for them, so now the affiliate doesn't build galleries and they don't submit galleries and they don't even pay for bandwidth this definatly lead to the LAZY webmaster...
I think the biggest downfall for this industry was the ability to download a site and re upload it to your domain. basically I call it the copy : paste syndrome .. LOL

Now we are hear today the hardest of times in Adult and where are those affiliates? Thats my question... What happened to them all?

Most have found other means of making money because once the sponsors started doing everything for everyone the affiliate market was flooded with every tom dick and harry that could sign up to a program. It no longer took SKILL to be a ( so called webmaster ).

I think that is one of the biggest issues here... Where are the SKILLED webmasters. are there really any still around? are they still in adult?

[3xTom]

Originally Posted by Loki

I'll throw my few cents into the ring as it were....

I remember years back when this alllll started, and for a long time it was in fact the online porn industry that 'drove' the tech of the web, streaming video, live chat, flash multimedia all started in porn and then worked it's way into the 'mainstream' side of the web, mainstream in a sense would 'copy' from those it deemed to be the cancer killing the web.

But somewhere down the road we as a collective community got complacent, we stop being the innovators that we once were and we instead became stagnant, and we literally lost our stranglehold on the internet.

Now we are actually for the first time that I can remember BEHIND in the 'tech & innovations game'

What i find to be somewhat disturbing (and it was sort of already touched on here) is that NO ONE want's to try new things (or at least be the "first" to try something)

Case in point, a few years ago I developed what I dubbed C.V.M's (Custom Virtual Models) where I would take a series of photos and create a 3D Toon copy of ANY model (and you'd be hard pressed to see the real diff between the live and toon counterparts!)

I shopped it around to 10 companies and ALL of them said the same thing:

(1) Who else has gotten on board so far?
(2) Get back to me once a few more people have signed on

Long story short NO ONE got on board and I shelved the project, I brought it back a few months back and went to a handful of companies / models and I offered them a FREE starter package JUST so I would not hear (who else has done it so far) when I took it public, and even for FREE no one has yet to turn in the required content needed for me to create their virtual models.

The same thing has happened with other projects I've attempted to do over the years, in the end I hate to say it but the bulk of the ppl 'running the show' are just too damn lazy these days to care....... UNTIL their profits start to dip at least.

-Loki-

Loki I would be happy to hear your pitch.. Lets chat..

[3xTom]

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

By the way, I did look at your sites and like the direction you've gone. Something about them turned me off a bit but I haven't figured out what exactly. Was withholding response until I could put it into words.

Interesting idea for sure though. What content do you provide to promote it?

When you decide what it is you don't like about it please please let me know.. maybe we can fix that?

[plsureking]

yes, porno people, welcome to the real world of commerce.

timing + product = profit

[tonyparra]

I dont think outside of the box because Ive always lived outside of it.

[TheLegacy]

Extremely well written and you've managed to bring out points that I have felt during my 18 years in this industry.

[ThumbLord]

another bump because this is an interesting thread

[zuffa]

Originally Posted by 3xTom

I have to totally agree with you both here,

When you do put in the time and effort and cash to do something yourself
and everyone looks at you like your a total loon, when all your trying to do
is bring something new to the playing table.

Gets a little frustrating and you sooner or later just say fuck it and move on.

Its really sad the way things have happened in this industry.
People complain about new and improved and not the same cookie cutter sites and tools but the minute someone comes up with something worthwhile or innovative
they then bitch about that as well.

By the way Stocktrader, We have slacked a bit on the tools, we used to be very good at developing some of the first and state of the art tools in the business ( jaymancash side ) then I noticed that over the last 2 years noone was using them I would spend hours and hours and lots of cash developing brand new tools for affiliates to use only to end up with noone using them. I would offer to affiliates to build or develop something for them to use just contact me and let me know what you need.. Guess what? NO ONE would contact me for ANYTHING. So yes we have fallen a little behind on ad tools for affiliates to use. But again I offer my services to any affiliate out here that needs something to promote our sites with Tell me what you want or need or would like to use and I'll do my best to get it for you.

People have gotten lazy and honestly You cant hardly even give away free work to them anymore..

Lets look back a little
It started with affiliates having to buy content themselves and build sites themselves to promote with.
It then moved into sponsors building the galleries for the affiliate.
Then to sponsors even submitting the galleries on the behalf of the affiliate.
Giving the affiliate free domains, paying the bandwidth for them, so now the affiliate doesn't build galleries and they don't submit galleries and they don't even pay for bandwidth this definatly lead to the LAZY webmaster...
I think the biggest downfall for this industry was the ability to download a site and re upload it to your domain. basically I call it the copy : paste syndrome .. LOL

Now we are hear today the hardest of times in Adult and where are those affiliates? Thats my question... What happened to them all?

Most have found other means of making money because once the sponsors started doing everything for everyone the affiliate market was flooded with every tom dick and harry that could sign up to a program. It no longer took SKILL to be a ( so called webmaster ).

I think that is one of the biggest issues here... Where are the SKILLED webmasters. are there really any still around? are they still in adult?

Wait... What?!?! Honesty, History and Logic. This thread runs the risk of becoming serious.

[Agent 488]

time for someone to revolutionize online adult. i think the man is here who will.

[Major (Tom)]

Anyone with ideas hit me up. Let's see what we can do.
Duke

[will76]

Originally Posted by DukeSkywalker

Anyone with ideas hit me up. Let's see what we can do.
Duke

I've been offering to help existing sites by going over their sites and giving them ideas on how they can improve. I also am offering to do this for a reasonable fee only payable once I give the company all of the information and they review it. If they like it they can pay me, of they don't like it and wont use it they don't have to pay me. The only feed back I have gotten from the trolls AND program owners here is that I think I am a know it all and know other people's business and I should go out start my own membership site and prove to them that my ideas work. Not to mention the retarded new threads made by people like far-l.

Here is some of the posts I made:

Originally Posted by will76

can i get any compensation for my time and ideas? serious question.

or am I just suppose to lay it all out here for gfy rep and "i told you so". Offer me something, and keep the information strictly between us if you decide to use it. If you don't think there is any value, keep your money. Hell you don't even have to pay me up front. If you don't see the value in it and you really don't use it then I wouldn't expect you to pay for it.

To do it right I would need an hour or so of your time so I could understand what your current philosophy is, long term planning, completely understand your current business model and how your sites are setup.
You might not want to make the changes I suggest. It will take, commitment and will cost you some money. Some people are already in the going out of business mode, where they just cut costs down to a bare minimum don't add any new content and live off of those rebills as long as they can. For someone like that obviously they not going to want to make any of the changes I would suggest. The person would have to be committed and want to do what it takes to turn their business around.

I would spend some time going through your sites. I would have a bunch of question for you to see if you are willing to make certain changes and if you have the resources to do it. It's not as simple as "go do x,y,z... this will work for everyone". I would be spending quit a few hours on an initial report for you. However the general logic is pretty much the same just applied differently to different sites based on the nature of the sites and what they are capable of doing.

its up to you or anyone else for that matter if they want to take a shot and get another perspective. Honestly, though if you banking on your only option to survive on fighting content theft and winning, i am sorry to say the chances of that happening are very very slim. I'd be exploring other options to try to get sales up instead.

so I get posts like this made in response: http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/995012-will76-thread-world-please-help.html

Im leaving for the Saints game shortly, Duke I would love to help you. If you are interested send me a message on icq and let me know.

[TrashyGirl]

I think the paying porn consumer has become less passive, doesn't just want to look-n- jack. OK-OK there might still some of those, but now most porn surfers have been molded by their experiences using social networking sites, online gaming, etc. This has created a new internet culture, to which porn has to react, and make changes, let alone the issues with the fuckonomy, billing, etc.

Nearly every guy I know in real life doesn't pay for porn anymore, there's enough free pics and vids to keep them from ever pulling out a credit card again. So what porn surfer wouldn't want an interactive experience with his erotic fantasy bringing it more into what he perceives as his (online) reality, example: Tom's Blacklabelskin site.

(ohhh and btw it says in my prof I've blown at least one person, I've blown more than one sheesh, but who have I blown here lol....)

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by TrashyGirl

(ohhh and btw it says in my prof I've blown at least one person, I've blown more than one sheesh, but who have I blown here lol....)

Not me.

Good points. I really think the majority of a paysites customers are getting older and older. I don't know anyone that understands the internet paying for porn either. The more keywords the tubes take the worse this education of the surfer is getting.

[Far-L]

I am sorry but I do not agree with your post. Allow me a reasonable counterpoint to address it.

The people making money in that 90's are not necessarily the big succussful companies of today. Many have been destroyed by the changing landscape or marketing, and the companies like Manwin that have blown up with success in the last few years prove that innovation still has a place, that there is still money to be made, and yes, porn hasn't died.

Every company that wants to stay in business never rests on past success because anyone that has been in business long enough knows that what worked yesterday is not necessarily going to work tomorrow. This is true of every industry.

There are plenty of great ideas but if you can't get anyone to execute on them fast enough, at the right time, then a great idea is worth less than the cup of coffee you had while brainstorming it.

As someone that has been on both sides of the equation, where people pitch ideas to us, but also where I have pitched ideas as well, you need to realize that many companies might have 5 different new things they are trying to roll out and they can't stop that momentum to pick up on your pitch - it isn't a matter of having the cash to make it happen - it is a matter of time/energy/expense in the right balance to make it happen.

My company had one of the most successful sites in the CE cash program which was one of the giants of the 90s and honestly but for reasons I cannot get into we didn't make jack diddley then compared to now. When we parted ways with CE we literally lost our entire member base and had to start from scratch. We had to reinvent and revolutionize the way we did things. Basically anything we tried that was working previously didn't work so we had to find ways, create strategies, and test theories, to grow and become profitable again. Today we make over 3 times as much profit on 1/3 of the former member numbers. Just another day at the orifice.

When we look at a company like Pink Visuals, do we see them in terms of what they did a decade ago or for what they are cutting edge on today? When we see all these old programs blow up do we think it was because they failed to adapt to changing landscapes or because they forgot to roll out new technologies and innovate in some manner?

The point is it wasn't necessarily "easy" money then anymore than it is "hard" money now. Good ideas still can still break out huge profits, but hard work will always pay off.

[Nicky]

Good thread.

[quiet]

if i could give stock some more rep, i would. good stuff.

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by quiet

if i could give stock some more rep, i would. good stuff.

Thanks.

Are you completely retired online or do you still play around with things, even if for fun? Either way you did everything about as right as possible.

[Cash4Me]

Originally Posted by Far-L

I am sorry but I do not agree with your post. Allow me a reasonable counterpoint to address it.

The people making money in that 90's are not necessarily the big succussful companies of today. Many have been destroyed by the changing landscape or marketing, and the companies like Manwin that have blown up with success in the last few years prove that innovation still has a place, that there is still money to be made, and yes, porn hasn't died.

Every company that wants to stay in business never rests on past success because anyone that has been in business long enough knows that what worked yesterday is not necessarily going to work tomorrow. This is true of every industry.

There are plenty of great ideas but if you can't get anyone to execute on them fast enough, at the right time, then a great idea is worth less than the cup of coffee you had while brainstorming it.

As someone that has been on both sides of the equation, where people pitch ideas to us, but also where I have pitched ideas as well, you need to realize that many companies might have 5 different new things they are trying to roll out and they can't stop that momentum to pick up on your pitch - it isn't a matter of having the cash to make it happen - it is a matter of time/energy/expense in the right balance to make it happen.

My company had one of the most successful sites in the CE cash program which was one of the giants of the 90s and honestly but for reasons I cannot get into we didn't make jack diddley then compared to now. When we parted ways with CE we literally lost our entire member base and had to start from scratch. We had to reinvent and revolutionize the way we did things. Basically anything we tried that was working previously didn't work so we had to find ways, create strategies, and test theories, to grow and become profitable again. Today we make over 3 times as much profit on 1/3 of the former member numbers. Just another day at the orifice.

When we look at a company like Pink Visuals, do we see them in terms of what they did a decade ago or for what they are cutting edge on today? When we see all these old programs blow up do we think it was because they failed to adapt to changing landscapes or because they forgot to roll out new technologies and innovate in some manner?

The point is it wasn't necessarily "easy" money then anymore than it is "hard" money now. Good ideas still can still break out huge profits, but hard work will always pay off.

Right words

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by Cash4Me

Right words

You are correct. I would like to point out though that he said he disagreed then went on to agree with me in 90% of that post. I guess some people only comprehend what they want depending on who posted it.

[quiet]

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

You are correct. I would like to point out though that he said he disagreed then went on to agree with me in 90% of that post. I guess some people only comprehend what they want depending on who posted it.

agreed lol.

as for me, i still slog some traffic. i also run a couple of blogs, just for funnzies. and of course, wealth perservation. and you?

Cheers

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by quiet

agreed lol.

as for me, i still slog some traffic. i also run a couple of blogs, just for funnzies. and of course, wealth perservation. and you?

Cheers

I actually sold out my webcam stuff several years back and moved over to mainstream where I got lost in the 4,000 different ways people generate traffic and hundreds of thousands of things they make money on. There is a much larger learning curve because of all the options.

Anyhow, I created some webmaster tools and sold them until the stock market crash. I was dealing mainly with complete noobs and they disappeared overnight. I opened an offline store that is pretty recession proof and worked on growing it for two years. I'm at the point now where to get any bigger I would have to start managing a large number of people and I really have no interest in that so I started digging online.

I'm currently in the process of starting a wholesale / possibly order fulfillment operation for some products that sell in mainstream and adult and shorty after that will be putting together an affiliate program based on the products. Nothing ground breaking, it's just that I can beat the payouts that are currently offered by miles thanks to some 10 year old business connections I have with manufacturers.

A few other things I wish I had the time and patience for. I found a ton of gaps in some mainstream markets but they all require a lot of work to get going. I do know that after working 10+ hours per day with the public that I'll do anything I can to not have to repeat it. Offline was fun but I am no longer interested.

[quiet]

i hear you. what kind of offline biz?

here's a good run down of my life: http://gofuckyourself.com/showthread...ght=silly+life

[corvette]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

Matter of fact, the new marketing techniques in mainstream (recently) are outpacing porn IMO.

i would really like to hear you expand on this just a bit

[Agent 488]

was porn ever the cutting edge of tech? tech geeks and tech journalists like to promote that myth because it males nerdy tech sexy, but doubt it was ever true.

right now porn is regressing because it is ghettoized. mainstream has exploded in size and innovation and porn just simply isn't allowed on the majority of sites and networks.

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by quiet

i hear you. what kind of offline biz?

here's a good run down of my life: http://gofuckyourself.com/showthread...ght=silly+life

I'd rather buzz you somewhere than post it here. I bookmarked your FB from another thread but I lost it in a system restore. If I can dig it up I'll send you a message.

Originally Posted by corvette

i would really like to hear you expand on this just a bit

Mainstream has been outpacing porn for a long time now. The amount of money the big affiliates are making is so above and beyond what the big affiliates in porn make that most would not believe it.

Originally Posted by Agent 488

was porn ever the cutting edge of tech? tech geeks and tech journalists like to promote that myth because it males nerdy tech sexy, but doubt it was ever true.

right now porn is regressing because it is ghettoized. mainstream has exploded in size and innovation and porn just simply isn't allowed on the majority of sites and networks.

Porn was on the cutting edge of tech even in the early 2000's. They might not have invented every tool or revenue stream that they popularized but they implemented them on a bigger scale and took shit to another level. These days, morphing some words in an RSS feed is considered to be a big deal.

[plsureking]

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

Porn was on the cutting edge of tech even in the early 2000's. They might not have invented every tool or revenue stream that they popularized but they implemented them on a bigger scale and took shit to another level. These days, morphing some words in an RSS feed is considered to be a big deal.

ya web video was born from porn. affiliate programs were born from porn. even the member subscription model was born from porn. then youtube and web 2.0 came and mainstream got 2 laps ahead.

as far as earnings per visitor, porn beats mainstream. however, in gross sales and gross traffic, mainstream as a whole is bigger. stands to reason tho, since a good mainstream site will easily have millions of visitors a day. porn is less than 10% of the total internet economy.

i know plenty of mainstream sites who get a million+ visitors a day and are barely paying their bills. one widget company owner i talked to last year has over 100 servers to serve widgets on myspace and hi5 sites, but personally earns less than $50k a year. huge traffic but little profit.

so who is really winning the race? hard to say.

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by plsureking

ya web video was born from porn. affiliate programs were born from porn. even the member subscription model was born from porn. then youtube and web 2.0 came and mainstream got 2 laps ahead.

as far as earnings per visitor, porn beats mainstream. however, in gross sales and gross traffic, mainstream as a whole is bigger. stands to reason tho, since a good mainstream site will easily have millions of visitors a day. porn is less than 10% of the total internet economy.

i know plenty of mainstream sites who get a million+ visitors a day and are barely paying their bills. one widget company owner i talked to last year has over 100 servers to serve widgets on myspace and hi5 sites, but personally earns less than $50k a year. huge traffic but little profit.

so who is really winning the race? hard to say.

That's what I mean though, mainstream is so unbelievably huge that nobody knows all of the different ways to earn money from it. For instance, I know multiple people doing $1 to $3 per click as affiliates and they have the pile of traffic to make that more than just a small income. I studied mainstream techniques for 2+ years solid and I would say I don't even know 5% of the ways people are taking advantage of it. Every day I talk to someone else that does big money on something I've never even considered.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

You are correct. I would like to point out though that he said he disagreed then went on to agree with me in 90% of that post. I guess some people only comprehend what they want depending on who posted it.

I disagree with 50% of what you originally wrote; however, I do agree with the rest. Doesn't mean I don't find value in what I disagree with either; in fact, you make a good point and something which I am only able to counterpoint with on my own experience.

I am not trying to bash what you are saying so no need to be defensive. This is a quality thread and I am completely game for staying in that spirit.

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by Far-L

I disagree with 50% of what you originally wrote; however, I do agree with the rest. Doesn't mean I don't find value in what I disagree with either; in fact, you make a good point and something which I am only able to counterpoint with on my own experience.

I am not trying to bash what you are saying so no need to be defensive. This is a quality thread and I am completely game for staying in that spirit.

I wasn't being defensive, I didn't even respond to your original post because I didn't see the point. The extra 'I agree' just struck me as something said by someone that respects your opinion because of the name you've made for yourself and blindly agreed.

I'm just happy so many came out of the woodwork to talk business on here.

Cheers

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

From the 90's through the early 2000's it was so easy to make large sums of money online that a much larger number of people accumulated lots of cash. Out of those people the creative ones brought us new niches, website ideas, promo tools, programs etc. The industry thrived.

Fast forward a few years and it's obvious who knew what they were doing and who didn't. Everyone that lucked out in this business without knowing or at least learning anything worthwhile crashed and burned hard. Some names will pop into your head. A lot of them invested in outside businesses that failed as well, give a stupid man money and you know the results. The handful that knew what they were doing all along and those that picked it up along the way have gotten bigger and bigger. They have either cashed out big or still run things today.

I still see a lot of creative ideas from people on GFY but they don't usually have the resources to try new things. They have great ideas but the programs hanging on to the old don't want to hear them. Because they weren't lucky enough to start when a page listed in Alta Vista brought sales the same day they have had to work harder to make a living and don't typically have $100,000 or more to get some out of the box shit up and running.

A lot of old timers like to use the line of reasoning that if you were as smart as them you'd make the same money and could do your own thing. You must be stupid! In truth, no matter what anyone says, it has gotten progressively harder to make huge sums of EASY money to give people the opportunity to invest in industry changing ideas.

I don't blame existing programs for sticking with their 10 year old business models. Most of them have enough to retire no matter what happens, it is expected that they'd be lazy about innovation. Unfortunately, this has caused the entire industry to suffer from a lack of options since hardly anyone is investing in new ideas. Those that do usually keep all of the money for themselves these days.

Most of the innovation and creativity was reserved for ways to get more free content onto the Internet to generate more traffic. All costing more money. Then Tubes hit and the game changed.

Even during the good years few new ideas came out. It was all about putting up more of the same. I've tried selling new ways to do old ideas and ran into the same problems time after time. They will not spend a little bit more to get a lot more. Except when it comes to traffic, then they spend a lot to get a little.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by 3xTom

I like to think that My company has dipped down low and came up with some very innovative and new things for our sites...

Its really sad that not to many of the affiliates have even try to send traffic to these sites even though they are converting like it was back in the the early days.

Thats ok the ones that ARE sending traffic are raking it in with our brand new social network style sites..
( Just say'in , selfless plug LOL )

But I do see alot of new innovative ideas out here I just don't see alot of the actual affiliates embracing the ones that DO churn out something other than the cookie cutter bullshit sites... over and over again..

To me as someone that builds out the sites, programs, affiliate tools, press releases etc.
Then to release the new site we work hard to build and see that jimmy ho ho with his 30 page post of "what should i name my dog" thread gets more attention than a brand new innovative site kind of gets a little disheartening to the program owners.

Quoted for the truth. The days of making money the same way we did in 2005 are over. Some haven't realised it yet.