So how do we solve the problem of piracy?

[Paul Markham]

The underlying problem with piracy is, for some it's profitable at the cost of of others. Usually the producers and vendors of the product being pirated. The list of those profiting from piracy includes the domain owner, the advertisers, processing and hosting companies.

SOPA is a huge sledge hammer to crack a walnut. It had flaws and is too vague with it seems no real court or decision making organisation to make final decisions to an accused company or persons guilt.

So how do we solve the problem of piracy?

So here is the start of an idea, that it seems would be fairer and more effective.

Make those who profit from a site dedicated to piracy liable to damages. To be decided by a court or committee. So an a site like Horny whores, Live Jasmin are there at present, can be served and have to go to court or committee to be judged whether they are profiting from piracy. Billing companies, hosts, advertisers, even the domain owners will all be liable to the same action. So will be put directly in the firing line.

The court or committee will be made up of legal people and industry people, could be professors of the Internet. They will decide if the site is dedicated to piracy, if the accused is profiting by providing the site a service or the site is providing them a service, like traffic. And the amount of damages incurred by the victim of the copyright theft.

The defendant and plaintiff can be represented by lawyers.

So how will it be paid for?
I did a quick search and found these stats on registered domains http://www.whois.sc/internet-statistics/. All 135,998,004 Seemed smaller than I thought but enough to carry the costs. A $1 tax on every domain registered will cover the costs and won't be too much to deter people taking a domain. Plus court costs can be added to any damages claim. Just lie a court of law. It can be a court of law. But it needs to be dealt with speedily.

Of course at the moment just a kernel of an idea. but it seems it has few flaws and just needs a bit of work to get it into legal jargon and makes companies or persons more proactive in self regulating themselves.

Comments please.

[AllAboutCams]

wouldn't every county in the world have to agree with this i.e. i could host my website in Sweden and i would be immune to the law you propose ?

[Klen]

We threat pirates to play audio Compilation of all Paul Markham posts on gfy at their home 24/7 unless they close their sites :D

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by xxxupdate

wouldn't every county in the world have to agree with this i.e. i could host my website in Sweden and i would be immune to the law you propose ?

No it makes people like Paypal, Live Jasmin, etc liable to damages. They will also be ordered to pay the cost of the plaintiff.

So unless everything is outside the US, someone can be served and have to defend themselves. You hosting in Sweden and living in the US or being a US citizen would still get you into the firing line.

Is OPEN better?

[Maxxx9000]

We hang them all, and leave one haning in the harbour. Pirates ye be warned!

[halfpint]

U wont solve the problem of piracy, just like the law has not solved the problem of drug abuse, murders, robbery or any other crimes.

[ottopottomouse]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

We threat pirates to play audio Compilation of all Paul Markham posts on gfy at their home 24/7 unless they close their sites :D

[sixsax]

Originally Posted by halfpint

U wont solve the problem of piracy, just like the law has not solved the problem of drug abuse, murders, robbery or any other crimes.

Wisdom...

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by halfpint

U wont solve the problem of piracy, just like the law has not solved the problem of drug abuse, murders, robbery or any other crimes.

So don't have any laws on any crimes.

[theking]

Originally Posted by halfpint

U wont solve the problem of piracy, just like the law has not solved the problem of drug abuse, murders, robbery or any other crimes.

Laws do not solve problems...but laws do help to negate problems...so laws are a useful tool.

[cherrylula]

Right now, there are people selling bootleg disney dvds out of their trunk in Southern California. My sister in East LA always has the brand new releases on dvd she buys for like 5 bucks from some Mexican lady. You can get anything you want like that.

When I lived in LA, across the street was a grocery store and every single day there was a table outside with pirated movies for sale. ALL. DAY. LONG. lol

Now how to stop that? lol good luck. At least with porn they can't pirate it and sell it all over mainstream venues like swap meets. That is a good thing, adults only!!

[TisMe]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So don't have any laws on any crimes.

Yes Paul, that's the answer (looks around for Sleazy) IDIOT.

Laws don't make problems go away, they deter reasonable people from committing crimes using penalties as a consequence. We call the ones they don't deter criminals.

Like most areas, Copyright doesn't need new laws, it needs enforcement of the existing laws. But that isn't sexy or headline grabbing so politicians prefer new laws so they can make speeches and garner attention.

What we don't want is laws that task enforcement of the law to companies instead of law enforcement. That is when you see a total loss of control and reason.

Laws that remove the courts and Law Enforcement agencies from the process are bad laws.

[L-Pink]

With a gun.

.

[Jack Sparrow]

In because of the views pauls thread will get.

[mafia_man]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The underlying problem with piracy is, for some it's profitable at the cost of of others. Usually the producers and vendors of the product being pirated. The list of those profiting from piracy includes the domain owner, the advertisers, processing and hosting companies.

Imagine you download a torrent:

1. Go to Pirate Bay.
2. Search for content.
3. Download (Leech).

Now who is serving that file to you? Multiple individuals that are unpaid. The Pirate Bay is a public tracker so there's no incentive to carry on sharing these files.

This is why piracy will never go away. People are willing to do it for free.

You can argue about the lockers, which are the most profitable wing of piracy at the moment. People upload content, post on forums, get paid commission when downloaders buy a premium account.

Forget the ads, forget LiveJasmin, AFF and the like. These people are directly profiting from you content. You'll never get a successful conviction against advertisers because they'll just claim they didn't know. But lockers have the files on their servers; it's much harder for them to deny it.

[Barry-xlovecam]

VIII."Do not steal." c.1700 BC -- this really worked well

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by TisMe

Yes Paul, that's the answer (looks around for Sleazy) IDIOT.

Laws don't make problems go away, they deter reasonable people from committing crimes using penalties as a consequence. We call the ones they don't deter criminals.

Like most areas, Copyright doesn't need new laws, it needs enforcement of the existing laws. But that isn't sexy or headline grabbing so politicians prefer new laws so they can make speeches and garner attention.

What we don't want is laws that task enforcement of the law to companies instead of law enforcement. That is when you see a total loss of control and reason.

Laws that remove the courts and Law Enforcement agencies from the process are bad laws.

Enforcement of what laws and how please.

On the part I made bold you're so wrong I doubt if you understand what you're talking about. Tons of laws enforce companies to police themselves. It's very standard practice.

My suggestion bring in a process to penalise. It goes between a judge or committee.

[Joshua G]

piracy can be contained with tech. eventually piracy will get marginalized to a slower bandwidth tier, where tube sites will buffer to death. the top level tier will be controlled by hollywood. Net neutrality is doomed.

[gideongallery]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So how will it be paid for?
I did a quick search and found these stats on registered domains http://www.whois.sc/internet-statistics/. All 135,998,004 Seemed smaller than I thought but enough to carry the costs. A $1 tax on every domain registered will cover the costs and won't be too much to deter people taking a domain. Plus court costs can be added to any damages claim. Just lie a court of law. It can be a court of law. But it needs to be dealt with speedily.

Of course at the moment just a kernel of an idea. but it seems it has few flaws and just needs a bit of work to get it into legal jargon and makes companies or persons more proactive in self regulating themselves.

Comments please.

why not pay for with $100 per copyright registration fee.

it not really fair to tax business who have absolutely nothing to do with the dispute.

Why should a plumber in pensicola pay for this problem.

[Antonio]

not gonna happen, thread closed

[L-Pink]

This all boils down to people using the creative works of others for their own personal gain. Either create your own "product" or pay for the authorized use of someone else's. Just because my property is in my front yard, my house or my website doesn't give you the right to help yourself to my efforts. Period.

.

[arock10]

Strong navy

[seeric]

You're out in the cold Paul. Left behind. You missed the boat.

Sadly this is true for you. There was a point to pivot into turning all this in your favor. You missed it still trying to fight.

[Best-In-BC]

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR Me Maties

[TheSquealer]

Who is "We"?

You aren't in this biz anymore. You've made that clear countless times.

[bristarrmodel]

If products are reasonably priced piracy can be reduced but never deterred. Who the hell pays for 40 bucks for a porno dvd and why should it cost that much?

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by bristarrmodel

If products are reasonably priced piracy can be reduced but never deterred. Who the hell pays for 40 bucks for a porno dvd and why should it cost that much?

Then don't buy it. It's that simple.

A Rolex costs $20,000, why does it cost so much? ... I think I should be allowed to steal it instead. No you either do without, work harder to afford it or buy from a less expensive watch maker. Pretty fucking simple.

.

[L-Pink]

Say what you want about Paul being outdated. The one thing for sure is he isn't is a thief like some in this industry. If being outdated means being honest then I'm outdated as well.

.

[porno jew]

The real question is: So how do we solve the problem of your useless posts and insights?

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Then don't buy it. It's that simple.

A Rolex costs $20,000, why does it cost so much? ... I think I should be allowed to steal it instead. No you either do without, work harder to afford it or buy from a less expensive watch maker. Pretty fucking simple.

.

Are you really this fucking simple minded? When I jump into discussion on GFY I like to assume that no matter how much I call you an idiot that you are at least intelligent enough to understand what I'm saying. The more I read from you the more I believe that you actually are this stupid.

Let's break this shit down.

You were asked "If products are reasonably priced piracy can be reduced but never deterred. Who the hell pays for 40 bucks for a porno dvd and why should it cost that much?"

A reasonable question because places like STEAM have shown that if you price your digital goods at a level that your consumers consider acceptable and provide a good user experience then piracy is mostly a non issue.

You responded with what I quoted above.

A Rolex costs $20,000, why does it cost so much?

$30 per month porn is Rolex pricing in the internet world. Not for all, just most.

I think I should be allowed to steal it instead.

Oh this argument again? Nobody here is saying that anyone should be able to steal your shit, just that you can't fucking stop it. Can you get that through your head? You can't fucking stop this shit, you aren't going to, you are going to have to adjust, die or float along at a fraction of your former glory because you are too bitter and stubborn to do anything about it.

No you either do without, work harder to afford it or buy from a less expensive watch maker. Pretty fucking simple.

I sure do, too bad most of the internet does not give a fuck about L-Pink from GFY. Now what are you going to do? The law is not going to save you, ever.

Also, you're all self righteous about how you would never pirate anything so obviously you must be an upstanding moral citizen that doesn't do anything one would find questionable. You know, like produce or sell porn?

The fact of the matter is that piracy can't be stopped. When someone tells you that and you jump in with all the reasons you are against it *again* it makes you look retarded. We know you are against it, almost every fucking person here would be happy if magically stopped tomorrow but it's not going to happen.

And one more tidbit just for the record. Copyright laws were intended to keep the flow of information going. They were not created with the purpose of making sure you get paid for every video of a girl being tag teamed by 5 guys that you "own". They begrudgingly accepted the fact that "artistic works" would be copyrighted to give you a monetary incentive to keep releasing them to the public but they never gave a shit about you making money from your ideas. Copyright was for the greater good of society, not your pocketbook. The only reason that all of the arguments fall onto protecting your income streams is that corporations have a lopsided influence on our laws.

Cheers

[porno jew]

i think every content producer should try to run a pirate site and every pirate should try to run a content producing business. the insights would make most of the "problem" disappear overnight.

[pimpmaster9000]

Piracy can be SIGNIFICANTLY reduced just by taking down the websites that pirate. Lets say 90% of the worlds population who download pirate content do it from 20-30 top pirate websites. Take out the top players and the pirate industry will be hit hard. Keep taking down the top players and most people won't know where to go. There is no 100% solution to piracy but 95% of the pirate sites can be taken down within a matter of minutes. And the new emerging "players" in the field can be systematically taken down as soon as they appear


Laws DO work. A good example is the child abuse film "industry" that is all but gone from the net. Sure you can find it if you really want but its not easy to get and it is definitely something that one can control.

[halfpint]

Originally Posted by crucifissio

Piracy can be SIGNIFICANTLY reduced just by taking down the websites that pirate. Lets say 90% of the worlds population who download pirate content do it from 20-30 top pirate websites. Take out the top players and the pirate industry will be hit hard. Keep taking down the top players and most people won't know where to go. There is no 100% solution to piracy but 95% of the pirate sites can be taken down within a matter of minutes. And the new emerging "players" in the field can be systematically taken down as soon as they appear


Laws DO work. A good example is the child abuse film "industry" that is all but gone from the net. Sure you can find it if you really want but its not easy to get and it is definitely something that one can control.

Blame google and other indexing search engines for the fast growth of piracy, The very people smut peddlars use to make money from. You take one down another pops ups or the technology for file sharing changes.. and to compare it to child abuse films is way off. Most prob 99% of people know that its wrong to abuse children, its a totaly different story to piracy, You talk to most youngsters and they have no problem sharing files, Society does not tell them that it is wrong to file share like it is to abuse children, Its going to take a very long time, if ever for society to do the same thing about file sharing.

[raymor]

Intuitively, it seems like lower prices might reduce theft. Fortunately we don't have to rely on what seems like a reasonable guess because we have actual facts that answer that question.
Music is ONE DOLLAR and still it's stolen more often than anything else. That, to me, pretty much answers the pricing question. What really happens is that even a price of one measily dollar doesn't reduce theft, so that guess was wrong, even though it seemed like a reasonable guess.

[topnotch, standup guy]

Originally Posted by Antonio

not gonna happen, thread closed

It'll happen if only because the big money (Hollywood and the music industry) needs it to happen in order to survive.

SOPA or something like it will happen and it will happen soon.

And if it's a watered down SOPA that passes, congress will then slip it the steroids it needs in another bill when no one is looking.
.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by cherrylula

Right now, there are people selling bootleg disney dvds out of their trunk in Southern California. My sister in East LA always has the brand new releases on dvd she buys for like 5 bucks from some Mexican lady. You can get anything you want like that.

When I lived in LA, across the street was a grocery store and every single day there was a table outside with pirated movies for sale. ALL. DAY. LONG. lol

Now how to stop that? lol good luck. At least with porn they can't pirate it and sell it all over mainstream venues like swap meets. That is a good thing, adults only!!

Yes piracy has been a problem for a very long time. And no measures will stamp it out completely. By bringing is the those who benefit and ISPs, it can be limited, which is the aim of all laws. Otherwise we wouldn't have policemen, courts, lawyers, judges, prisons, jails, prison warders, etc. Unless we adopt the attitude I think you propose, in that if you can't stop it don't bother to do anything.

[GregE]

Originally Posted by raymor

Intuitively, it seems like lower prices might reduce theft. Fortunately we don't have to rely on what seems like a reasonable guess because we have actual facts that answer that question.
Music is ONE DOLLAR and still it's stolen more often than anything else. That, to me, pretty much answers the pricing question. What really happens is that even a price of one measily dollar doesn't reduce theft, so that guess was wrong, even though it seemed like a reasonable guess.

Excellent point.

One might think that this would put the argument about pricing to bed once and for all.

Somehow I don't think it will though

[GregE]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Say what you want about Paul being outdated. The one thing for sure is he isn't is a thief like some in this industry. If being outdated means being honest then I'm outdated as well.

Believe it or not, you're not alone on that score.

It sure as hell seems that way sometimes though

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by bristarrmodel

If products are reasonably priced piracy can be reduced but never deterred. Who the hell pays for 40 bucks for a porno dvd and why should it cost that much?

So do away with affiliates and the cost drops 50%, or drop their payments to 5%. Then sell 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 day memberships at $1 a day. Limit download of course. Don't keep continually updating which is a big cost and people can pop over to other sites. Unless you iTunes and have a million customers paying every day.

iTunes model. I suggested that a year or so and people rubbished the idea. Now it's something people are proposing.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by bristarrmodel

If products are reasonably priced piracy can be reduced but never deterred. Who the hell pays for 40 bucks for a porno dvd and why should it cost that much?

So do away with affiliates and the cost drops 50%, or drop their payments to 5%. Then sell 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 day memberships at $1 a day. Limit download of course. Don't keep continually updating which is a big cost and people can pop over to other sites. Unless you iTunes and have a million customers paying every day.

iTunes model. I suggested that a year or so and people rubbished the idea. Now it's something people are proposing.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by seeric

You're out in the cold Paul. Left behind. You missed the boat.

Sadly this is true for you. There was a point to pivot into turning all this in your favor. You missed it still trying to fight.

When I got on the boat, it wasn't a pirate ship

[porno jew]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So do away with affiliates and the cost drops 50%, or drop their payments to 5%. Then sell 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 day memberships at $1 a day. Limit download of course. Don't keep continually updating which is a big cost and people can pop over to other sites. Unless you iTunes and have a million customers paying every day.

iTunes model. I suggested that a year or so and people rubbished the idea. Now it's something people are proposing.

you are bitter about affiliates because the model never worked for you. i tried promoting your shit back when anything sold. it never did. that was your fault. not the affiliates.

[mafia_man]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Then don't buy it. It's that simple.

A Rolex costs $20,000, why does it cost so much? ... I think I should be allowed to steal it instead. No you either do without, work harder to afford it or buy from a less expensive watch maker. Pretty fucking simple.

.

Your argument is flawed. Firstly a Rolex is a tangible item and most porn isn't. It doesn't cost anything for somebody to duplicate digital files.

Secondly, it could be argued that the person who steals porn would never pay for it even if they couldn't obtain it for free. This is a valid argument for a lot of pirates.

The problem then is how do you get the ones that would pay to pay. The answer is there is no one answer. But right now there are 2 easy ways for people to get porn without paying, tubes and lockers. Both make money off your content. How are you going to stop them?

[gideongallery]

Originally Posted by topnotch, standup guy

It'll happen if only because the big money (Hollywood and the music industry) needs it to happen in order to survive.

SOPA or something like it will happen and it will happen soon.

And if it's a watered down SOPA that passes, congress will then slip it the steroids it needs in another bill when no one is looking.
.

you realize statements like that are whathe going to make sure the bill never passes.

or only pass with abuse it and lose it penalty.

[gideongallery]

Originally Posted by raymor

Intuitively, it seems like lower prices might reduce theft. Fortunately we don't have to rely on what seems like a reasonable guess because we have actual facts that answer that question.
Music is ONE DOLLAR and still it's stolen more often than anything else. That, to me, pretty much answers the pricing question. What really happens is that even a price of one measily dollar doesn't reduce theft, so that guess was wrong, even though it seemed like a reasonable guess.

deduct all the people who come from countries with a piracy tax that pays the artists

deduct all the people who are simply getting back content they already bought

and the percentage is really tiny

the piracy tax model is really great because the tax only has to pay the artist the 5-10% of the sale price to fully compensate them.

[topnotch, standup guy]

Originally Posted by gideongallery

you realize statements like that are whathe going to make sure the bill never passes.

or only pass with abuse it and lose it penalty.

Huh?

Some of us here are accustomed to communicating in the English language.

Want to try that again?

.

[halfpint]

Originally Posted by mafia_man

But right now there are 2 easy ways for people to get porn without paying, tubes and lockers. Both make money off your content. How are you going to stop them?

You left out forums, torrents, social networking sites and mobile phones from that list

[pimpmaster9000]

Originally Posted by halfpint

Blame google and other indexing search engines for the fast growth of piracy, The very people smut peddlars use to make money from. You take one down another pops ups or the technology for file sharing changes.. and to compare it to child abuse films is way off. Most prob 99% of people know that its wrong to abuse children, its a totaly different story to piracy, You talk to most youngsters and they have no problem sharing files, Society does not tell them that it is wrong to file share like it is to abuse children, Its going to take a very long time, if ever for society to do the same thing about file sharing.

Yes people know that child abuse is wrong and torrenting isnt but this was not my point. The point is that pedo crap is extremely hard to find for the normal user. The same can be done with pirate sites. Child porn was removed from the net not because people knew it was wrong but because something was actually done against it. My point is that the same can be done with piracy. Most of it can be removed from the net, it is technically possible and it can be kept that way.

Nothing is impossible and I don't see a reason why piracy can't be dealt with the same way, just take away the popular places and you have solved most of the problem.

[porno jew]

Originally Posted by crucifissio

Yes people know that child abuse is wrong and torrenting isnt but this was not my point. The point is that pedo crap is extremely hard to find for the normal user. The same can be done with pirate sites. Child porn was removed from the net not because people knew it was wrong but because something was actually done against it. My point is that the same can be done with piracy. Most of it can be removed from the net, it is technically possible and it can be kept that way.

Nothing is impossible and I don't see a reason why piracy can't be dealt with the same way, just take away the popular places and you have solved most of the problem.

it's not the same because the biggest and most popular destinations on the web like google, youtube, facebook and so on are almost grey area pirate sites themselves. there would be a riot in the streets if those sites were constrained in any way.

[scottybuzz]

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

Are you really this fucking simple minded? When I jump into discussion on GFY I like to assume that no matter how much I call you an idiot that you are at least intelligent enough to understand what I'm saying. The more I read from you the more I believe that you actually are this stupid.

Let's break this shit down.

You were asked "If products are reasonably priced piracy can be reduced but never deterred. Who the hell pays for 40 bucks for a porno dvd and why should it cost that much?"

A reasonable question because places like STEAM have shown that if you price your digital goods at a level that your consumers consider acceptable and provide a good user experience then piracy is mostly a non issue.

You responded with what I quoted above.



$30 per month porn is Rolex pricing in the internet world. Not for all, just most.



Oh this argument again? Nobody here is saying that anyone should be able to steal your shit, just that you can't fucking stop it. Can you get that through your head? You can't fucking stop this shit, you aren't going to, you are going to have to adjust, die or float along at a fraction of your former glory because you are too bitter and stubborn to do anything about it.



I sure do, too bad most of the internet does not give a fuck about L-Pink from GFY. Now what are you going to do? The law is not going to save you, ever.

Also, you're all self righteous about how you would never pirate anything so obviously you must be an upstanding moral citizen that doesn't do anything one would find questionable. You know, like produce or sell porn?

The fact of the matter is that piracy can't be stopped. When someone tells you that and you jump in with all the reasons you are against it *again* it makes you look retarded. We know you are against it, almost every fucking person here would be happy if magically stopped tomorrow but it's not going to happen.

And one more tidbit just for the record. Copyright laws were intended to keep the flow of information going. They were not created with the purpose of making sure you get paid for every video of a girl being tag teamed by 5 guys that you "own". They begrudgingly accepted the fact that "artistic works" would be copyrighted to give you a monetary incentive to keep releasing them to the public but they never gave a shit about you making money from your ideas. Copyright was for the greater good of society, not your pocketbook. The only reason that all of the arguments fall onto protecting your income streams is that corporations have a lopsided influence on our laws.

Cheers

I did not pay money to steam not because I thought hey, they are charging a nice fee, I couldn't find a damn key thats why I paid. Reasonable fee my ass, people don't like to pay a damn thing if they get it for free. (few exceptions - like delivery time of product)

Start making it hard to find movies online and I will start paying again