I still believe declining sales has a lot to do with easy of payment

[Jakez]

Of course piracy is one of the biggest problems, among other things. But as everything becomes more and more seamless, paysite joins still require you to locate your pants and wallet, whip out a card and fill in a form with CC info, name, maybe address, etc. Probably losing your boner and drive in the process.

Look at how easy it is to purchase an app on an iPhone or Android market. You just click a button and hardly have that feeling of buying something.

Why has the adult paysite community still failed to put together a widely used seamless payment solution? I think it would be really surprising how many more sales would be made if the person could signup with one hand.

[porno jew]

adult has become and ghetto marketing and technology wise. they are not innovators but live in the past.

[FlexxAeon]

there are a lot of billing hurdles to jump simply because it's adult oriented. even if paypal or the likes were to allow adult transactions, rest assured that someone/somewhere higher up would put a hurdle in front of the adult transactions

EDIT: but, "we" dug that hole for ourselves by scamming customers

[raymor]

Agreed. Unfortunately the same crooks who rip upload all of the members' content join with stolen CCs or charge back, so that puts pressure on payment choices. Google does the app market, but won't offer simple one click payment for porn partially because of the fraud.

Since this fraud is perpetrated by the same type of people who do wholesale content theft and their buddies, it all ties together.

[CyberHustler]

Whitelabel join pages...

[Jakez]

This should the #1 goal of the adult industry right now IMO. Piracy is very hard to control. But this is something that can at least be accomplished over time.

Even if has to start at just one large program. If someone has already signed up for one of your sites, you should make it a very easy transaction to join another. Even if it's simply auto-filling in a form based on previous billing data.

[porno jew]

people have no problem paying for gambling.

[Brujah]

Why didn't the Token concept take off? I still like the idea of depositing money into a system for credits and then being able to spend them on porn across multiple sites easily. Maybe because it wasn't accepted widely enough.

There's always Bitcoins.

[ilnjscb]

Originally Posted by Brujah

Why didn't the Token concept take off? I still like the idea of depositing money into a system for credits and then being able to spend them on porn across multiple sites easily. Maybe because it wasn't accepted widely enough.

There's always Bitcoins.

Someone big has to start it. MFC currency would work.

[PR_Dave]

If paypal allowed adult the system you are talking about would exist.

1 click joins.

[Jakez]

And not to mention, if one of the large programs with many sites implemented this, their affiliates would surely put more work into pushing more of their other sites, as well as gaining many new affiliates who like the idea. Since a sale for a sister site would be a LOT easier and faster, and also more rebills since the transaction would happen so quickly they might forget about it later. And the surfers/customers would surely prefer it over other programs.

I don't see any reason why programs can't at least set something like this up internally on their network of sites. Even if each program has a different system.

Originally Posted by PR_Dave

If paypal allowed adult the system you are talking about would exist.

1 click joins.

Oh of course, but you guys should at least work on something like I just said above. If I can get someone to join Lesbian Porn Pass by pulling out their CC and typing all the info into a form. Imagine how much easier it would be to sell them to your other lesbian sites after they see some content that catches their attention if it was [really] just a few clicks away.

[Brujah]

Originally Posted by PR_Dave

If paypal allowed adult the system you are talking about would exist.

1 click joins.

You could start it Dave! Use CCBill, Epoch, other, to deposit funds into a credit system which is accepted across the adult spectrum.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by Jakez

If someone has already signed up for one of your sites, you should make it a very easy transaction to join another. Even if it's simply auto-filling in a form based on previous billing data.

...
they tried that but said eh, lets just bang it for $125 and send em on their way LOL

and the 39.95 x 3 fees in the tiny print hahah they helped em join all kinds of sites easily..

[FlexxAeon]

Originally Posted by ilnjscb

Someone big has to start it. MFC currency would work.

some oneS big...

if 2-3 major sites developed a currency it could snowball from there.

(first person to say .xxx gets slapped )

i had hoped that this would be the case with epass back in the day when they and epoch were one

[porno jew]

xxx icm is already working on this.

[Jakez]

This might also somewhat phase out the ripoffs like hidden prechecked sales and such. If a 2nd join was that much easier, and rebills were that much higher on them, it wouldn't be such a chore to get every dollar out of them.

[FlexxAeon]

Originally Posted by Brujah

You could start it Dave! Use CCBill, Epoch, other, to deposit funds into a credit system which is accepted across the adult spectrum.

i gotta say, PR / Porn.com would be a worthy company to do this, with the built in reputation and branding

Originally Posted by porno jew

xxx icm is already working on this.

WHAT DID I SAY?!

[Jakez]

Originally Posted by porno jew

xxx icm is already working on this.

Originally Posted by FlexxAeon

WHAT DID I SAY?!

Well good for them. Can't be mad at someone for improving a dated model that others are too lazy to work on. It sounds like a solid plan and even if it didn't work as well as hoped it can't possibly hurt?

[bignasty]

Your thoughts certainly have merit. I just bought some books off of Amazon. Could have saved about $20 buying elsewhere, but stuck with Amazon because I didn't feel like fumbling around to reenter all of my information in at a site I had never purchased from.

[BSleazy]

ccbill could do it

[adendreams]

Originally Posted by BCyber

ccbill could do it

Especially if they merged with Manwin

[Jakez]

Originally Posted by bignasty

Your thoughts certainly have merit. I just bought some books off of Amazon. Could have saved about $20 buying elsewhere, but stuck with Amazon because I didn't feel like fumbling around to reenter all of my information in at a site I had never purchased from.

Yes, and I believe adult is a much different situation unlike any other online transaction. You may think about a book or something for days or weeks on end and finally purchase it when you have time. But surely many adult purchases are based on impulse and really need a solution like this.

Not to mention people (or me at least) are suspicious about entering information into so many sites, especially in adult sales where so many scamming type tricks are used and most people willing and able to join are scared to now because of past experiences.

[SteveBee]

Sure part of the problem is that it's adult and some businesses shy away from that.. but there are many parts to the problem. Some of the problems have to do with fraudsters, and some have to do with people who want to sign up for a porn site, but find that the statement says "private entertainment" or something, and the wife freaks out, and it's denied, and of course since it's adult visa mc are apt to just take the money back without recourse, etc..

but many in the adult industry are to blame for the days of greedy cross sells and difficult to understand sign up and cancelling terms. Was it sex tracker that abused that hard core a while back? Can't remember so much now.. but lots of people have been guilty in doing it - it's no wonder people do not believe "free sign up" or $1 trial" or $5 access or $30 access at this point!

What I would like to see fixed is the acceptance of pre-paid visa / mc cards - we would all benefit from increased sales if this payment was easily accepted - I know I have lost a lot of live cam upsells because cams.com (and I am guessing others) did not accept the pre-paid visa cards... shame, as it would be easy to get those cards all over the world.

[Jakez]

On the topic of hidden cross sales and other tricky moves many programs use now. Imagine if it were so easy to join a site that a user would join 10 or more $1 trial sites in one night ($10!), and then forget about it later and those trials rebill at the normal monthly price. That is a $300+ join right there. Fuck prechecked sales. Of course that might be another bad move that pisses off the customers, but at least they may have some type of recollection of joining all of the sites, and notice their ignorance, compared to being tricked into it like is done today.

[SmokeyTheBear]

paypal already has it , there's a reason we don't , it's the same reason we can't use paypal greed..

theres 2 companies that did have a somewhat solution

epassporte and duocash

but i think the MAIN solution to the problem is far from our reach , same reason the economy is in the shitter.. internet porn in the 90's was the same as the housing market.. it was all on credit..

[bean-aid]

Originally Posted by Jakez

Of course piracy is one of the biggest problems, among other things. But as everything becomes more and more seamless, paysite joins still require you to locate your pants and wallet, whip out a card and fill in a form with CC info, name, maybe address, etc. Probably losing your boner and drive in the process.

Look at how easy it is to purchase an app on an iPhone or Android market. You just click a button and hardly have that feeling of buying something.

Why has the adult paysite community still failed to put together a widely used seamless payment solution? I think it would be really surprising how many more sales would be made if the person could signup with one hand.

Your point is so on the mark...

I will add though... CCBill does have what you call an "Upgrade, 1 click option". This is for sales of phone time, cam time, tangibles, etc. where a member has already signed up and paid. They can click 1 button to upgrade and not have to reenter their information which is currently like 10 or so fields.

[ArsewithClass]

Originally Posted by Jakez

Of course piracy is one of the biggest problems, among other things. But as everything becomes more and more seamless, paysite joins still require you to locate your pants and wallet, whip out a card and fill in a form with CC info, name, maybe address, etc. Probably losing your boner and drive in the process.

Look at how easy it is to purchase an app on an iPhone or Android market. You just click a button and hardly have that feeling of buying something.

Why has the adult paysite community still failed to put together a widely used seamless payment solution? I think it would be really surprising how many more sales would be made if the person could signup with one hand.

No bullshit, our sales are up...

[Jakez]

Of course many would look for way to abuse it. Such as making the entire page a tricky hidden signup button or something. I guess the entire problem is that Visa/MC does not trust this industry at all and wouldn't like something that would make it so easy to process. What a shame.

Regardless, this industry has to somehow update eventually, we can't expect people to enter all this info forever. Eventually everything will really be clicks away.

Originally Posted by beaner

Your point is so on the mark...

I will add though... CCBill does have what you call an "Upgrade, 1 click option". This is for sales of phone time, cam time, tangibles, etc. where a member has already signed up and paid. They can click 1 button to upgrade and not have to reenter their information which is currently like 10 or so fields.

Never noticed that. So why then do ccbill ratios usually suck so much? Lol.

Originally Posted by ArsewithClass

No bullshit, our sales are up...

Very irrelevant. Imagine how much more they would be up..

[ArsewithClass]

Originally Posted by Jakez

Never noticed that. So why then to ccbill ratios usually suck so much? Lol.



Very irrelevant. Imagine how much more they would be up..

My bad, you read it different to how I said it.. I meant it more of a question.. no bullshit? my sales are up this month.

I wasn't being rude to you with a fuck you bullshit...... more like.. Really?? my sales blablabla..

Onto your thread. If payment was made harder, I think sales would be less of. How many times do you drive by a shop & think, ahhh I'll wait until I get to the shop up the road as it's easier to park, similar facts bro

[bean-aid]

Originally Posted by Jakez

Never noticed that. So why then to ccbill ratios usually suck so much? Lol.

I'm not going to deny what you said. They certainly convert for some, others say the scrub is turned on harder at times... etc.

It's all speculation.

One thing I have learned is controlling your own account... including join form, the fields on the join form, the "scrub", etc. make a HUGE difference on who gets approved and who does not.

But... the issue always is, are we in a position to enable a merchant account and is the affiliate willing to take the risk of getting paid on that merchant account by the owner?

I just started running saraswirls.com site and it certainly converts with CCBill... affiliates make sales as do the cuckolding forums, SE, etc.

Niches have always been high converting sites from my experience.

[DWB]

Originally Posted by PR_Dave

If paypal allowed adult the system you are talking about would exist.

1 click joins.

+1

[Konda]

A lot of paysites use 1-click up-sales to cams in their members areas (where users don't have to fill out their card info again). Also Media Revenue, and probably others, have a lot of 1-click ads to their other sites in their members area.

It is easy to do it within your own network, since the user's card data is already stored at your IPSP, but it's a lot more work to do it with other sites, because different programs use different billers, banks and IPSPs.

[grumpy]

Originally Posted by CyberHustler

Whitelabel join pages...

thats not a answer for this problem. Not by far.

[Paul Markham]

I would bother to read this if it applied to all online sales. The situation is online sales are booming.





http://www.internetretailing.net/200...reet-up-by-21/

And there's more.

Who's being hit with online selling? Those who are being pirated and those who are also giving it away for free. The problem with getting a CC out to book a cinema ticket, buy a tangible goods isn't a problem.

If you are still in the belief that we sell to people who act on the spur of the moment, your a dinosaur. They jerk off on the spur of the moment, if it's that good. Next time they want to jerk off they come back with a card or go look for more free stuff.

[u-Bob]

As I said in one of the file locker threads: I have friends that have paid subscriptions/accounts at filelockers and private torrent trackers. When asked why they don't just join a porn paysite, they replied "everybody knows you can't trust a porn site with your credit card number".

These are people who grew up with the internet. People who have no problem buying from Amazon, on eBay etc

Ease of payment is only a small part of the equation. Trust is a major one.

[NetHorse]

Originally Posted by SteveBee

but many in the adult industry are to blame for the days of greedy cross sells and difficult to understand sign up and cancelling terms. Was it sex tracker that abused that hard core a while back? Can't remember so much now.. but lots of people have been guilty in doing it - it's no wonder people do not believe "free sign up" or $1 trial" or $5 access or $30 access at this point!

True, shady billing practices have hurt this industry tremendously.

It happens even more in mainstream, (go order a 'trial' of a diet product I promote on Azoogle and see how bad they fuck you). The thing is, people attribute a bad experience with one adult site to every adult site out there.

I've talked to friends who got screwed over back in 98/99 that will never buy an adult membership again, from any site. They don't know the difference between a CCbill site with clear terms and one with a shady off-shore merchant that will bang their cards, all they know is they don't trust either just the same anymore.

[NetHorse]

Originally Posted by u-Bob

As I said in one of the file locker threads: I have friends that have paid subscriptions/accounts at filelockers and private torrent trackers. When asked why they don't just join a porn paysite, they replied "everybody knows you can't trust a porn site with your credit card number".

These are people who grew up with the internet. People who have no problem buying from Amazon, on eBay etc

Ease of payment is only a small part of the equation. Trust is a major one.

[NetHorse]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I would bother to read this if it applied to all online sales. The situation is online sales are booming.





http://www.internetretailing.net/200...reet-up-by-21/

Paul, that chart is so insanely vague. How much of that growth are from sites like Amazon, Bestbuy online, Walmart, etc?

People are buying online more, but from who? Reputable companies that have a huge track record, or just any site like 'BuyaNewPC.com'?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by NetHorse

Paul, that chart is so insanely vague. How much of that growth are from sites like Amazon, Bestbuy online, Walmart, etc?

People are buying online more, but from who? Reputable companies that have a huge track record, or just any site like 'BuyaNewPC.com'?

Online sales are starting to effect high street sales in all sectors, except those goods that can be pirated. Who they buy from and why, is down to clever marketing people. I mean real ones and not guys who tell you a banner needs to be bigger or to split test tours.

Marketing people who know that a no quibble guaranty is worth it's weight in gold. Not guys who hide cancel buttons.

Marketing people who who look closely at their customers needs, what fills those needs and how to present them. Not idiots like squealer who thinks it's all a formula.

Marketing people who target everyone with real info, train staff to know about the products, display everything, buy in the right goods, not just the cheapest.

So yes this is what you get from the big brands more often than the little Ma & Pa operations.

The reasons why people don't buy porn like they used and the solutions, would fill a months seminar. Piracy is only part. Billing is a smaller part.

[BlackCrayon]

how about this, an adult verification company where people just have to verify and enter their info once, from there you would just enter your user/pass for that and be charged for any paysite you join. of course all paysites would have to get on board and pay some kind of fee. it might also put an end to chargebacks and other fraud since people would not want to have to re-verify or risk being banned from the system.

[Jakez]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

how about this, an adult verification company where people just have to verify and enter their info once, from there you would just enter your user/pass for that and be charged for any paysite you join. of course all paysites would have to get on board and pay some kind of fee. it might also put an end to chargebacks and other fraud since people would not want to have to re-verify or risk being banned from the system.

I like that. But it would have to be supported by the major billers and they would have to setup a way to accept the payment info from the central site? Not very difficult.

Maybe the site could refuse to work with sites with prechecked sales and practices that causes a high amount of chargebacks and other distrust. This could help repair the trust with the surfers since they won't see any unexpected charges, they can view a listing of sites they are subscribed to in their control panel and easily cancel. Many programs wouldn't like this but the trust has to be repaired somehow, and if the site became standard then surfers would recognize it and trust it and the programs ruining that trust would be phased out.

Originally Posted by NetHorse

Paul, that chart is so insanely vague. How much of that growth are from sites like Amazon, Bestbuy online, Walmart, etc?

People are buying online more, but from who? Reputable companies that have a huge track record, or just any site like 'BuyaNewPC.com'?

Please don't feed the troll. He said he won't bother to read the thread but wants everyone to read his garbage and call us a dinosaur at the same time as if he has any clue what he's talking about. Fucking please.

[LiveDose]

After visiting mfc for the first time last weekend it's pretty clear to me why the business is shifting so much. Adapt or die. Free content is every where.

I've spent the last 5 years expanding my business in every direction imaginable including offline and brick and mortar.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Jakez

This should the #1 goal of the adult industry right now IMO. Piracy is very hard to control. But this is something that can at least be accomplished over time.

Even if has to start at just one large program. If someone has already signed up for one of your sites, you should make it a very easy transaction to join another. Even if it's simply auto-filling in a form based on previous billing data.

You know what - this is a good point. I tend to use Amazon to buy stuff because of their one click purchase. It's easy.

Our industry should do this.

[porno jew]

the industry is doing this: the xxx billing system.

[stocktrader23]

One click sales with a group of card banging idiots running them?

You need a platform like STEAM that will let them join whatever sites tickle their fancy with one click but managed by someone that won't fuck them over and over and over and over. Oh, and it can't be $30 a fucking month x 3000 sites either. They would happily pay $10 to $50 to download x amount of content without ever paying again. Then run regular sales and promotions and go to town.

Now try to talk 3 companies into letting you distribute their content like that. They will act like you are insane.

[ilnjscb]

Originally Posted by PR_Dave

If paypal allowed adult the system you are talking about would exist.

1 click joins.

PR_DAVE, you know you guys could do it, singlehandedly. If you'll get me a meeting with the big man I will fly out and do a proposal in Feb. My guys and I will build the whole thing on MY DIME to your specs, end to end, for a piece of the revenue.

If you get me the meeting I will demonstrate my bona fides.

[EukerVoorn]

Originally Posted by BCyber

ccbill could do it

I agree with you, CCBill could and should come with some kind of one-click e-wallet for porn sites.

[Paul Markham]

Reasons for declining sales in online porn.

Online porn workers.
Lousy product.
Free content.
Card banging.
Better free products than paid products.
Online porn not adapting.
Idiots.
Fucking customers for 12 years.
Treating customers like idiots.
Finding excuses for failure by pulling them out of your ass.

Pick any combination from the above, different ones fit different people.

[Paul Markham]

Of course before the brilliant, brainy and totally marvelous people in online porn got to be in online porn. Morons like could make a living in porn. It was all too easy. Make a crap product, put it on your doorstep and people left money to take it away. True we never made the trillions the online guys do. But it paid for a stale loaf of bread. </sarcasm>