AdultKing

Next you'll be saying he can't get it up...


.. oh wait

Paul Markham

Need Damian on this and his method of making that ineffective. Otherwise.

will work in countries that sign up to it.

Now that's radical.

There is one very easy method to do it for most. The billing system.

The Internet isn't free. It's a huge business. Show me a truly free site and I'll change that. We do have Usenet and that needs someone technical to tell us about. Still for the rest of the Internet it's about generating income. cut off the money flow and people will sit up and take notice.

Now all we need is the US Government to step in.

My point with his clothes, no worries the trolls will come and protect him. They need his traffic.

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DWB

I honestly don't know the ins and outs of the tech side of the net. However, I do see that the US Government seizes domains, and they were able to put together the arrest for Megaupload in another country. That is enough to tell me that something could be done at some level.

That said, didn't they more or less do a good job of blocking the net in Syria? And as you know, they block a lot of sites here in Thailand. Of course a proxy will get around that, but Joe Public doesn't use a proxy.

My point is, if they really wanted to find a way, I have faith they could.

DWB

It's going to take something radical.

DamianJ

Pornographers calling out for government censorship amuses me no end.

JOKER

If you have any ideas for a better solution that does not involve the government or new laws, I'm all ears - seriously.

Some good feedback and ideas from DWB and Paul (I knew you still have it in you! )

Thinking out loud here... Aren't the Root DNS servers under Verisign's control / authority?

Maybe Manwin would like to merge with / buy OpenDNS and / or CloudFlare to "accelerate" the Internet (and pick up a nice revenue-stream and tech-companies with a really great teams along the way) and along the way now have control over many, many users DNS querries... You get where I'm going with this?

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DWB

Why? Do you think it's OK to rape someone and film it just because we're in the porn business? How about child porn or sex with animals. How about kids having sex with animals? Simulated forced sex? Shitting on people's faces? All porn depending on who you ask.

Just because we make porn for a living doesn't mean why have to disagree rules and regulations being put on the internet.

We all have to abide by rules. Only criminals and anarchists want to live in a lawless society. Which one are you?

DamianJ

There is no 'solution'.

DWB

Damian doesn't have ideas, he just has negative comments which are usually pro-piracy, and stalking tendencies towards certain GFY members.

JOKER

Geez, you sound so negative - how come?

If I've learned anything then that there is always a solution to a problem.

It's just the question if you want to be part of the solution, or part of the problem...

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DamianJ

You see, that's the problem with freedom of speech. There is always someone saying something you disagree with. So, the choice boils down to if you want freedom of speech or not. It's black and white.

Also, and more importantly, it's impossible to put rules and regulations on the internet because it is global and there is no global law. Even if there was, people will ALWAYS find a way round them, like TOR for example. Like the second level internet.

I believe that the whole money/piracy thing is a red herring anyway. Piracy existed for free a very long time before file lockers came around. And it will continue to exist if file lockers credit card processessing is stopped. Usenet, IRC, private FTP, forums, torrents etc all exist for free.

I don't believe the problems the industry are facing are much to do with piracy. More to do with 1) A massive double dip recession that is fucking over EVERYONE 2) Years of treating our customers like cunts (circle jerks, card banging, hidden x sales, dialers, throttling bandwidth, content rotation, spamming, selling email addresses etc etc.)

We'll see though. If you all do manage to close all CC processessing for file lockers and then everyone sees a HUGE growth in sales, I will eat my hat and apologise. However, I have a feeling that won't happen.

It's nice to have something to blame for a greedy industry's short sighted failures. It is convenient. However, I don't think it's accurate.

Time will, as they say, tell.

DamianJ

History, and billions of dollars wasted by the RIAA and MPAA have proven there is no solution.

It's like the war on drugs. Simply impossible to win.

I believe if the time and money spent on trying to fight an impossible war were spent on making the product better, we could achieve something. Like iTunes Music Store. Everyone, EVERYONE said the music industry would never recover from Napster/Audio Galaxy days. But all it needed was a better solution. Easy, reasonably priced and elegant to use. And lo, digital legal music sales are through the roof.

Think on't.

JOKER

See, now we're getting somewhere.

Yes, I agree - there should be a low inhibition / entry level access to pay-to-enjoy porn, absolutely.

No need to give away the "house" for ~ 4.95 though.

From my experience, you would not believe (well the numbers are actually in another thread on this board 300.000 usd failure or so) what people are willing to spend if you give them exactly what they want - so keeping this in mind - sure 4.95 or heck even 2.95 can get you "into the door" but if you want the good stuff, it'll cost you some more - like anything in life really - you get what you pay for. It should def. be 100% transparent though, no fucking around with amounts / billing etc. A coin-system is usually fair in that aspect. You load up say 50 bucks worth in coins (virtual currency) and you can spend it on the go for stuff you really choose to consume.

If there is a good product people are willing to pay for it, no need to give it away for free or for peanuts

// Edit: CCBill / TMM / NATS - what are your thoughts on a coin-system would you be willing to offer something for interested parties?

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Paul Markham

Don't hold your breath waiting for a reply. He hasn't got a clue and for some reason is against any attempts.

I always had it in me. Stopping the money flow is the easiest way for the US to achieve a a win in a major battle. It will be fought on home soil, As Visa and MC are US based ultimately, and it would help if the EU follow. Just reducing the US income from offenders, will make them sit up and take notice. anyone remember the 1% CB ceiling and cross sale rules they implemented?

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DamianJ

You can't put the genii back in the bottle.

People will always pirate and give away content for free. 10TB is uploaded to usenet EVERY DAY. For free! And downloaded for free.

Let's look at music. Type any popular artist's name into google and you see pirate downloads. You can still get any music you want for free. Yet people are still buying it via Amazon, itunes, etc.

You need to forget about trying to stop free porn, you won't EVER do that.

Concentrate on making a better product than the free porn.

DWB

Freedom of speech and laws are not the same thing. You can't hide behind freedom of speech when it comes to child porn. Kim Dotcom can't hide behind it for being a pirate.

Today there is not a way to deal with it. That I agree with. However, that could change as soon as tomorrow or never. Just a few years ago streaming video was impossible. TOR didn't exist.

All it takes is the right people to create the right laws and there is a global solution. One law could change to put the burden on domain registrars and that would be the end of that.



Piracy is just a small part of the problem. Economy, saturation, lack of credit, crappy sites and service... a perfect storm.

No one is going to see a huge growth in sales even if piracy ended today. You still have all the other factors to deal with plus everyone has been taught they no longer have to pay for anything. So you would need a new generation to come along plus all the financial issues resolved, before the stage could be set for a spike in sales to happen.

Like I said, it's only part of the problem and it's easy to point at because they are here. They are among us. The global bankers and government officials are not.

No, that just means they didn't find the solution.

Billions are also wasted on rockets that don't fly. That doesn't mean man can't go to space, it just means some people can't build rockets.

SZNY

Yep, I totally agree with you on this one. This industry must come with new tech driven incentives that are easy to use/understand and with some good pricing.

Many programs are floating on what once made themselves successful and consumers have better things to do then being bounded to $29,95 subscription plans.

The iTunes Music Store is a great example. Also the modern consumer has more ways to spend their online time (take a look at the # related to social gaming). Virtual goods/social gaming is booming.

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JOKER

And now for your viewing pleasure and insight into some GFY tactics...



Now carry on - I like what we have going here so far, this has serious potential.

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AdultKing

The old model of charging $X at the door is lucky to have survived this long. Consumers are experiencing different models of monetization in almost everything they deal with online apart from Porn. From the consumer's perspective porn sites are stuck on some arcane 1995 model that has done well to survive until now.

DWB

Because porn is different than any other thing they spend time or money on.

1) It is private and secret. People do not usually openly share porn info with their real names attached to it.

2) It often carries baggage of shame or guilt.

3) It feeds addiction.

4) For those not single, it is often viewed with others in their household are away or sleeping. This sort of falls under #1.

5) It is impulsive. Music and Hollywood movies are not. Neither is social media or games. When a guy needs to rub one off, he needs to rub one off.

6) The want/need to orgasm trumps all other urges / impulses. It is stronger than wanting to play a game, stronger than to want to listen to music, and stronger than the desire to watch a Hollywood blockbuster. People want to cum and they want to cum now. They want to find the right fantasy or girl and get off. This is the part that separates porn from the music and Hollywood movie industry. People don't need music. They don't need Hollywood. They don't even need games. But they need to cum.

I'm sure I could think of several other things that make it different, but you get the point.

Porn doesn't need different pricing to make it sell again, however an easier way to sell it would help. Like if Paypal would allow adult again for pay sites. No doubt that would up sales for everyone who used them. Who wants to type in a credit card and give their name to a porn company, especially if they have already been burned? It's 1000x easier and safer to use Paypal. The last thing I want to do while my cock is in my hand is find my CC and type in a bunch of shit on a join form. Make it super easy to join again and sales would rise. This is why so many file lockers use Paypal, it's so easy you're a retard not to join them.

Then you have Google who allows the tubes, lockers, and torrents to dominate, so finding it for free is easier and faster than ever. Even if you wanted to pay for it, 2 minutes in Google can change that. I can find my content for free on Google faster than I can find my real site on Google. And every time we work to change that, Google dances and they fuck us again.

But given the current way of billing and our history of fucking the consumer, why anyone pays for porn anymore on a paysite is beyond me. I guess it just comes down to impulse and not being able to find THAT GIRL, THAT SCENE, or THAT COLLECTION of content somewhere else. Logically, there is no other reason.

AdultKing

Your whole post was great and obviously you've thought about all of this alot, and refined your thoughts.

However given the choice between paying directly and paying indirectly, which is more likely to be the case ?

BAKO

Holly Paul Markhem. Why would anyone waste there time talking to him lol. U guys have nothing better to do then beat a dead horse lol

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DWB

Alex, I'd like for AdultKing to rephrase that question for $500.

_Richard_

what goes up must come down

Paul Markham

Very easy to say. Now let's think of how we can do it.

10 cents a scene?
$1 a scene?

Or nothing a scene and as much as you like when you like it?

I pointed out the flaw in this a while back, but will restate it.

If someone wants a Radiohead record and there's a very cheap version available. People may buy it.

If someone wants a Brazzers version of a porn scene and there are scenes available for a low price. There are lots of other brands very similar available for free in as much quantity as needed.

This was an idea I came up with years ago and it was rightly ridiculed. I still think launching sites with 20 scenes approx for $5 is a good idea.

What we have to always consider is porn is a very different product to most other online product.

Unlike Google we don't have a bottomless pit of people who will give us money to advertise. Monetising porn traffic isn't the same as monetising SE traffic.

Most porn is pretty average, because there simply isn't the money in porn to produce a truly great product.

Porn surfers are very focused. They have an erection to deal with.

Most porn in a niche and style is very similar to other versions.

Once a porn scene is seen it's done, gone and forgotten.

Few scenes are viewed over and over again.

A good porn scene is 20 minutes of pleasure, then the viewer will get on with his life.

Comparing monetising porn traffic with what FB, Google, YT do. Is like feeding a cow what a chicken eats because they both live on a farm.

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DamianJ

There are no global laws, nor global law enforcers. The internet is global. Do the math.

Come up with an example for stopping something on the internet globally.

If there was a global law enforcement, possibly. But there isn't.

They said that about music. And video games. And movies. Look at Steam and iTunes and netflix.

johnnyloadproductions

Good comments.

Later this summer I'll write a lengthy and expose on piracy and some things to breath a little life back into copyright holders. For the most part though it's a done game.
Small niche people can make a modest living but for the most part there is so much content out there now that one can essentially cycle through it all and it's new again.

Paul Markham

Reading many of the posts here makes one realise that few here have a clue about marketing porn.

Porn is a very specific product, comparing porn traffic with YT, FB, etc traffic is wrong. Comparing it with Google traffic with a stretch of the imagination might be closer.

A porn surfer has a specific need, to jerk off most of the time. His attention is focused, he's often got an erection and only intends being there a short while. As soon as he's satisfied he's away from the porn. Like searching for a plumber on Google, once you find the plumber you're off Google.

Now here's the difference. The surfer has the "plumber" with him, he doesn't need two plumbers. Now you might be able to sell him a sign up to the porn site, we all know what those ratios are like and how good the porn needs to be.

You might get him to click on an advert and sell a small number something porn related. You can't sell him a TV, computer or beer and even if you could, the odds on him buying are low.

The audience on FB, YT etc. Are completely different, they are browsing, passing time, wandering through, socialising. This traffic with some targeting you can sell a much broader range of goods.

Comparing Walmart traffic with porn site traffic is like comparing a dog with a carpet. For no reason I can think of, not can anyone with any marketing know how.

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Paul Markham

The best way to limit piracy and to enforce online porn laws, is via the money. Cut or restrict the money flow and it will make an effect. Convince Visa and MC to enforce rules, with sites not complying being cut off.

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DamianJ

Oh, you used to say piracy didn't have an impact on the porn market, what changed your mind?

Robbie

Wow. Reading DamianJ being quoted by other people.

His ignorance knows no bounds.
"Come up with an example for stopping something on the internet globally."

Okay. Put up a cp site and see what happens to you.

The idiot is mincing his words. The reality is that if you cut off the U.S. and major European markets to a website (either the ability to be seen or the ability to process money...or both) then you effectively shut them down.

If Pornhub were only able to be seen and/or billed in some third world shit hole, it would die.

And as many of us have already proven...technology is a TWO headed sword. It works to STOP piracy just as well as it works to help make it possible.

But only people who are actually IN the porn biz know this. Guys who are just parasites working on the fringes of this industry do nothing but spout their b.s. theories because they have nothing and have no knowledge of how it really works.

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DTK

Fabian owes Paul Markham (and those who can't resist replying to him) a christmas card.

Good job guys

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Robbie

True. Took the entire heat off his dumb ass completely.
Thread is completely derailed.

Paul must be on the Manwin payroll.

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DWB

You are embarrassing yourself. Seriously.

1) Ever hear of INTERPOL?

2) Since when has the USA cared about international law? If they want it, they do it. End of story.

Ask Kim Dotcom how the lack of international laws is working out for him.

3) The FBI has offices (legal attaches) all over the world, in most major cities, located inside the US Embassy. If they need to deal with something based on violation of US law, that is what they are there for.

What did the FBI do to the online poker sites they wanted to close? They seized their domains. They also sized domains for counterfeiting sites. They couldn't seize the actual sites or touch the owners in China, but they can touch the domains, and that is all that matters.


Lay the burden in the lap of the registrars, who lose the right to sell domains if they refuse to cooperate. Problem solved.

Far-L

A crusty old fart works tirelessly from his meek little cottage in a small town this side of bumfuck nowhere to convince the world that he knows more than they do and begins to believe whatever he says is THE TRUTH although the world around him knows he is lying... until one day they begin to believe his crap and accept his vision of the universe...

Not possible you say? Not in your neighborhood?

Well maybe not where you live. But then again, you must not have an address in...

The TWILIGHT ZONE...

__________________

seeric

A thread isn't truly ruined until Markham shows up. Had to stop reading somewhere on page 5.

Cliff notes from there?

Paul Markham

Did you read that Farrel?

Robbie and DWB. Damian knows the truth. All it takes is the will of the US Government to start the ball rolling and the EU will follow along and piracy will be dealt a blow it will never recover from. Why he keeps going on and on trying to deny the truth is something we can only guess at.

His "wasting time and money" excuse is blown out of the water, the moment he wastes time and money by continually posting.

What he should be telling us is how will 3wayscash deal with the new ATVOD rules. Not wasting time and money fighting against change.

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theking

You seem to have a need to stink up other's threads with your stupid...clueless...endless babbling. I wish you would stick to your own threads...as one can at least avoid those.

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DamianJ

What sites have they closed?

What international law?

Who suggested otherwise?

Really. So those sites just gave up? Or did they just reopen?

Clue: they reopened. In a matter of hours.




Why do you think you can do what the mpaa and riaa failed to do?

DamianJ

Really? What piracy has been stopped by technology. I think you tried the old letter blackmail scam a while ago. Not done it since...why not?

Well do educate me then, in between your lines of coke. Explain how technology has worked to stop piracy.
Can't wait!

DWB

Last post to you, and not even sure why I'm wasting my time on this one. It is painfully clear you not only support piracy, but you are probably a massive, freeloading, pirate yourself. Wouldn't be surprised if you own a file locker full of nasty content. Your pro-piracy ramblings have become as bad as Gideons.

INTERPOL, none. You said there "no global law enforcers." You were wrong. But that doesn't mean they couldn't in the future. None of us have any idea what plans are being made for future raids,arrests, and seizures, and who is going to do them. While the FBI may not be able to chase someone down in China, INTERPOL can if they needed to. It just hasn't gone that far yet. Maybe it won't. But then again, maybe it will.


There are international treaties between many countries currently. More could be added in a blink of an eye, even though it would break your heart.

There are international banking rules and regulations, and most of them are created by the USA. If they can strong arm international banks, registrars (or any other internet organization) don't stand a chance.


That is not the point. The point is their domains were seized by the FBI.

Stay on topic. You asked for how things could be done and I told you. The FBI seizes domains and they could take oron or any other should they see fit to do so. If they reopen or not is anyone's guess. And then they could take those domains if they wanted to.

So what if they reopened? The USA changed banking laws so it's more difficult to gamble and illegal for US citizens.

You clearly have no real understanding of the full reach of US law and what they will do when they want something.


You would know.

Why didn't Megaupload reopen? Clue: The local authorities sized all their shit because the US government told them to.


Why do I have to do with anything?

But if you want to get technical, they were just trying to stop piracy. There are many other ways to do away with a lot of these sites than just piracy issues. But I'm sure you know that too.

BTW... you're quite the little girl for running to Eric or Theo today to have Euker banned. Guess Fabian isn't the only one in this thread who easily gets butt hurt.

DWB

Damian, hit one of the file lockers you frequent, grab some CP, build a site with it, and let us know how it all works out.

According to you, there is nothing that can be done on an international level to stop you. So go for it.

DamianJ

I look forward to the proof you have of my being involved in any illegal activity. Hate to see you banned...

Barefootsies

Sadly I must agree.

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DTK

If he isn't, he should be

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WarChild

Just FYI, INTERPOL doesn't actually "chase" anybody down. They don't have a jail, or officers out making busts or anything like that. It's essentially just an administrative organization facilitating cooperation amongst the member states police agencies.

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.

L-Pink

I hope, I really hope, GFY doesn't still give out swag to biggest thread starter of the week/month.

.

tony286

songs cost a dollar on itunes and they still pirate it. People tried cheap sites for years and they never took off. Lens tried it , I had a Boss when I worked at a lingerie modeling place over 15 yrs ago. Had a pay site $5 a month and it made nothing. As the success of the clips 4 sale model shows people will pay and pay close to what they pay for a whole month for one scene. It being too expensive is the excuse

adultmobile

Unsure of the destiny of this non-topic thread (it keeps up just because started by Nathan and feeded by Markham), however for the quoted low pricing thing, I could say my experience it is, that for $2.95 per month we are getting a number of indians, malaysians, turkish and even north americans signing up, that may have not at $19+.
We introduced a $2.95/mo and $4.95 per 60 days access pricing in 2010 for chatGF scheduled live shows, idea came out after I seen how much total money was spent by iphone users as "it is just $2". But 2+2+2+2+2+2 = finally they spend a lot, even if subtle way they don't think at the total on the moment.
I mean if you put a price $20 they say "no, never", but if you split the service in 10 things costing $2 each, it could be they buy for total $20 in pieces.
Now, there is no way to make serious profit at $2.95/mo even if many signed up given the per-transaction and/or % fees for so micro amounts (google and apple may have cheaper per transaction fees than the average joe). Also $2.95 guys may consume all the support people time with silly questions as they PAID lol.
However it is nice to see those guys from third world countries buying the access, some even fail for "insufficient funds" at $2.95 so I wonder, but they can be even more to signup from south east asia, arabics than north america + west europe some days, probably because most sites block their countries completely or if not blocked, have not so cheap access in options.
So access could be free or $2.95 but the money you do in other way, later, so give access free it is perhaps best. Our $2.95 is just to keep out the too many freebies who would blah blah too much in chats, disturbing, this applies to cams only maybe.

Sandro szny also mentions people playing games in facebook; well as my nickname and reg date implies I am into "mobile" from 2003 and before, and actually developed games (no adult), and I can say the most profitable mobile games (and so, web ones?) it is the freemium. Again the game is free download & install & play, until at certain point you need more items you buy in shop for $2, or stuff like that. Example is RPG's where you should play like 10 hours to have more powerful sword instead go buy it for $2.

Let's see it like myfreecams (or chaturbate or our tubecamgirl), it is freemium because the free guy can see naed girls playing, even chat to them, but no any girl will ever reply or care to them as they're free users. They are losers who see the girl replying to who tipped her the most money. So you go in shop and buy $$ to tip the girl who will then greet you. It is same as guy who buy gold or swords in RPG in phone (or who remembers ultima online those guys selling in ebay entire castles LOL).

Unsure I helped anyone here as I said about cams and video games (which is not porn or "cum" based, but really a social engineering & legal scam), honestly I have no idea how to do money with (let people pay for) prerecorded content when similar or same prerecorded content it is available free. My experience with buying traffic on tubes it is they do not want put affiliate links (no rev share), but instead just sell spots to brokers or anyone who buy at given price - and it is cams and gaming (gambling) mostly to buy.

Awaiting Markham's reply.

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