State run National Health Systems - GoFuckYourself.com

Paul Markham · 10-29-2012, 02:36 AM

Without all the political drama can people give me their view on this.

The National Health Schemes work in most of the Western World, their success is often down to the amount of money they raise. So with so many examples to work from.

Why didn't Obama build one State run, as an insurance scheme all working people have to pay into. Then use the money raised to pay hospitals a set amount to treat the patients.

Even down to the prescription charges on drugs. The State then controls hospitals and drug companies in the aspect of what they can charge.

Only those on a high wage would end up paying more and many would pay less as they can opt out of the private insurance schemes. Those on a higher wage can still pay in and get their private room, doctor, nurse and meals.

nextri · 10-29-2012, 02:40 AM

yeah, this is definitely not going to turn into a political drama..

Paul Markham · 10-29-2012, 02:40 AM

I understand the private sector would of lobbied to hell froze over.

It still seems a far better scheme and over time money could be spent to build new hospitals or take over the private run ones if they don't want to continue.

The prices the State would pay would be controlled and shave some of the huge profits off.

Paul Markham · 10-29-2012, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nextri

yeah, this is definitely not going to turn into a political drama..

Well it hasn't so far.

spazlabz · 10-29-2012, 04:25 AM

funny, you request that the political drama be left out but you baited with raw meat by saying

Quote:

Why didn't Obama build one State run, as an insurance scheme all working people have to pay into. Then use the money raised to pay hospitals a set amount to treat the patients.

because of my own personal views I think that what is referred to as a 'one payer system' would be ideal for the US and is needed in our country. Following a European model could work in the US but since there is such a strong misunderstanding of what that is and a LOT of Americans mistrust the concept so hard for a variety of reasons I believe it will take the next generation coming into power before we have much of a hope of that.

Barry-xlovecam · 10-29-2012, 04:30 AM

It's about money the health insurers stand to make ...

Quote:

In contrast, Obama's law is starting to look more and more like a tangible business opportunity. In a little over a year, some 30 million uninsured people will start getting coverage through a mix of subsidized private insurance for middle-class households and expanded Medicaid for low-income people. Many of the new Medicaid recipients would get signed up in commercial managed care companies.

A recent PricewaterhouseCoopers study estimated the new markets would be worth $50 billion to $60 billion in premiums in 2014, and as much as $230 billion annually within seven years.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...e=mo re216833

A single payer health plan like mandatory tax supported National Health Insurance might have been preferable but with so much money at stake it wont happen for a long time.

Paul Markham · 10-29-2012, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spazlabz

funny, you request that the political drama be left out but you baited with raw meat by saying

because of my own personal views I think that what is referred to as a 'one payer system' would be ideal for the US and is needed in our country. Following a European model could work in the US but since there is such a strong misunderstanding of what that is and a LOT of Americans mistrust the concept so hard for a variety of reasons I believe it will take the next generation coming into power before we have much of a hope of that.

Following proven to work models is as old as time.

I understand the mistrust it's from centuries of Americans doing everything on their own and only seeing the successes and based on a model that in reality never worked. As we move into the 21st century some things are obvious.

We cannot rely on the private sector to look after us. The hated Nanny State, is the only option. The problem is who will pay for it and how is it going to be shaped so people don't abuse it or get cast aside?

What Americans pay for Health Care, which ends the day they stop paying, is absurd. Should Obama of just stood his ground and built a similar model to the others that work and showed who was stopping it?

Is he strong enough?

ottopottomouse · 10-29-2012, 05:09 AM

NHS hospitals here are going bankrupt.

Paul Markham · 10-29-2012, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

NHS hospitals here are going bankrupt.

Because medical care is getting more and more expensive because of the new discoveries. And people don't pay enough.

Plus every fucking UK Government comes in with a new way to run it better. It's by no means a perfect system, can you afford to go private?

It's time for a rethink of how the West thinks. When we retire unless we've put a lot of money away for our retirement. You're going to be poor. The private sector will not support you.

Private Health Care is expensive. NHS costs a lot, but go live in the US and find out what that costs or the alternatives.

Barry is indicating the private sector wouldn't allow a proper public sector Health Care. go figure out why.

In the UK Government after Government promised no more taxes. And what happened? They all put them up. In the US it's the same, no more taxes. So they borrow themselves into massive debt. Like the UK and others. We need to realise we're not as rich as we think we are.

State hospital goes bankrupt, they find more money. Private hospital goes bankrupt, they kick everyone out to State and bolt the doors.

spazlabz · 10-29-2012, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Following proven to work models is as old as time.

I understand the mistrust it's from centuries of Americans doing everything on their own and only seeing the successes and based on a model that in reality never worked. As we move into the 21st century some things are obvious.

We cannot rely on the private sector to look after us. The hated Nanny State, is the only option. The problem is who will pay for it and how is it going to be shaped so people don't abuse it or get cast aside?

What Americans pay for Health Care, which ends the day they stop paying, is absurd. Should Obama of just stood his ground and built a similar model to the others that work and showed who was stopping it?

Is he strong enough?

again, you dont want drama but you bait for it like crazy. Make up your mind

answering your last question first: No, he is not strong enough. He lacks the drive necessary to push through his agenda and he cannot resist the dollars floating around Washington from big pharma and the insurance lobby.

he would also lack support in Congress both from his own party and from an opposition party that has been against anything he is for...even if they proposed it first.

The Senate is so lazy and scared that the threat of a filibuster shuts stuff down so it does not come up for a vote. The American political system is broken but broken in favor of incumbent representatives so they have no motivation to fix it any time soon. More over when a party is in the majority they do not want to fix the issues that a minority party can pull to effectively shut down the government because they want to retain that ability for when they are in the minority.

the cumulative effect is that no one is working for the best interest of the American public who have been duped into believing there is a difference in the two parties. The only real difference is the flavor of the bat shit extremist on either side

for the record and full disclosure... I am a bat shit extremist liberal on a LOT of issues facing the US and a moderate on a few others

Sly · 10-29-2012, 08:18 AM

Brits tell me their system is failing and Canadians tell me most of them pay for out-of-pocket additional insurance anyway. I could be misunderstanding either of them, but I'm not jumping at any opportunity to pay higher taxes and still have to pay for my own insurance plus all of my other, high, medical expenses.

"That's where I'm coming from."

Rochard · 10-29-2012, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Why didn't Obama build one State run, as an insurance scheme all working people have to pay into. Then use the money raised to pay hospitals a set amount to treat the patients.

You don't understand why because you are not an American. It's as simple as that.

Paul Markham · 10-29-2012, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spazlabz

again, you dont want drama but you bait for it like crazy. Make up your mind

answering your last question first: No, he is not strong enough. He lacks the drive necessary to push through his agenda and he cannot resist the dollars floating around Washington from big pharma and the insurance lobby.

he would also lack support in Congress both from his own party and from an opposition party that has been against anything he is for...even if they proposed it first.

The Senate is so lazy and scared that the threat of a filibuster shuts stuff down so it does not come up for a vote. The American political system is broken but broken in favor of incumbent representatives so they have no motivation to fix it any time soon. More over when a party is in the majority they do not want to fix the issues that a minority party can pull to effectively shut down the government because they want to retain that ability for when they are in the minority.

the cumulative effect is that no one is working for the best interest of the American public who have been duped into believing there is a difference in the two parties. The only real difference is the flavor of the bat shit extremist on either side

for the record and full disclosure... I am a bat shit extremist liberal on a LOT of issues facing the US and a moderate on a few others

So is anyone brave or strong enough?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

Brits tell me their system is failing and Canadians tell me most of them pay for out-of-pocket additional insurance anyway. I could be misunderstanding either of them, but I'm not jumping at any opportunity to pay higher taxes and still have to pay for my own insurance plus all of my other, high, medical expenses.

"That's where I'm coming from."

They are failing because the tax payers don't pay enough and some of the procedures and cures are very expensive today. If Canadians paid what Americans paid, their Health Care system wouldn't be doing so badly.

I don't know what you pay in Health Insurance. But let's say it's $400 a month, would you drop it if the State run insurance plan was covering you and only increased your taxes by $300 a month?

Quote:

United States per capita 7,960 17.4% of GDP
Norway per capita 5,352 9.6% of GDP
Canada per capita 4,363 11.4% of GDP
United Kingdom per capita 3,487 9.8% of GDP
Czech Republic per capita 2,108 6.8% of GDP

In the US it's $446 a month, in Canada $363, in the UK $290. In Norway it's bloody expensive. Still cheaper than the US.

The good thing is these countries cover people when they're out of work or retired.

IMO spazlabz understands it and it will take a lot for American voters to get it. And vote the incumbents out. That's how democracy works.

Paul Markham · 10-29-2012, 09:13 AM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...ding-map-world

Quote:

HEALTH SPENDING AROUND THE WORLD
United States
17.9% of GDP is spent on health, or $8,362 per person
In United States, government spending on health is 53.1% of all health spending - and private is 46.9% of all health spending
How does private health break down?
25.1% of health spending is 'out of pocket' expenses - 67.8% is in private health plans
How big is the medical system?
There are 749,566 doctors, which is 24.22 per 10,000 people.
For comparison, in the CZ there are 36.72 doctors per 10,000 people
SOURCE: WORLD HEALTH ORGANISATION

Quote:

HEALTH SPENDING AROUND THE WORLD
Czech Republic
7.9% of GDP is spent on health, or $2,051 per person
In Czech Republic, government spending on health is 83.7% of all health spending - and private is 16.3% of all health spending
How does private health break down?
90% of health spending is 'out of pocket' expenses - 1.3% is in private health plans
How big is the medical system?
There are 37,351 doctors, which is 36.72 per 10,000 people.
For comparison, in the US there are 24.22 doctors per 10,000 people
SOURCE: WORLD HEALTH ORGANISATION

10-29-2012, 02:36 AM	#1
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	State run National Health Systems Without all the political drama can people give me their view on this. The National Health Schemes work in most of the Western World, their success is often down to the amount of money they raise. So with so many examples to work from. Why didn't Obama build one State run, as an insurance scheme all working people have to pay into. Then use the money raised to pay hospitals a set amount to treat the patients. Even down to the prescription charges on drugs. The State then controls hospitals and drug companies in the aspect of what they can charge. Only those on a high wage would end up paying more and many would pay less as they can opt out of the private insurance schemes. Those on a higher wage can still pay in and get their private room, doctor, nurse and meals. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

10-29-2012, 02:40 AM	#2
nextri Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 1,661	yeah, this is definitely not going to turn into a political drama.. __________________ DivaTraffic - Traffic for Models

10-29-2012, 02:40 AM	#3
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	I understand the private sector would of lobbied to hell froze over. It still seems a far better scheme and over time money could be spent to build new hospitals or take over the private run ones if they don't want to continue. The prices the State would pay would be controlled and shave some of the huge profits off. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

10-29-2012, 05:09 AM	#8
ottopottomouse She is ugly, bad luck. Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 13,177	NHS hospitals here are going bankrupt. __________________ ↑ see post ↑ 13101

10-29-2012, 08:18 AM	#11
Sly Let's do some business! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 31,290	Brits tell me their system is failing and Canadians tell me most of them pay for out-of-pocket additional insurance anyway. I could be misunderstanding either of them, but I'm not jumping at any opportunity to pay higher taxes and still have to pay for my own insurance plus all of my other, high, medical expenses. "That's where I'm coming from." __________________ Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted Windows VPS now available. Wanted: CCBill pay sites for sale