Any holocaust deniers here? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Vapid - BANNED FOR LIFE · 11-18-2012, 10:10 AM

I'll deny you your holocaust every time.

helterskelter808 · 11-18-2012, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kolargol

And your non superficial grasp of history is this???

Are you suggesting what I wrote is untrue or factually incorrect? Feel free to challenge it then. I'll be over here, not holding my breath. The Nazis commemorated their relationship with Zionism; literally two sides of the same coin:

PornMD · 11-18-2012, 11:37 AM

I love it when people simply refuse to believe anything they didn't personally witness. The universe started when they were born. We'll all be fucked obviously when they die because without them to personally witness us all, we'll no longer exist.

2012 · 11-18-2012, 11:38 AM

wow, i actually found better things to do than worry about it... like counting sand

JFK · 11-18-2012, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornMD

I love it when people simply refuse to believe anything they didn't personally witness. The universe started when they were born. We'll all be fucked obviously when they die because without them to personally witness us all, we'll no longer exist.

and I love it, how Dirty F can troll people

scottybuzz · 11-18-2012, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyClips

I love how when all the thousands of people come forward about alien abudctions, they are considered "crazy" and "mentally ill" but the few handful of people who come forward about surviving the Holocaust are considered "sane" and "rational" and their stories considered true...because the mainstream media says so

Vapid - BANNED FOR LIFE · 11-18-2012, 01:24 PM

They lay it on thick for sure JohnnyClips.

NewNick · 11-18-2012, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyClips

Why would anyone believe anything that an authority figures says? They don't care about me or you if you haven't figured that out by now and they have an aura of shadiness around them

Johnny I have told you this before, I hope you take some notice this time.

History is not written by authority figures. If you had ever studied anything at a serious level you would know this.

There might be an official version released at the time, but this is revised as historians look into the events with the benefit of hindsight and by using the benefit of the passage of time. A historian looks at all the available evidence, not just the official version of events. They then try to dicipher, through the fog of vested interests and partial truths, what actually happened, not what an official account stated, but what actually happened, why it happened, and why certain figures reported events in the way they did.

NewNick · 11-18-2012, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyClips

A historian only looks at "official" documents, which of course will never incriminate the officials who created them. Duh. "Officialdom" has nothing to do with the truth at all. The official stories come from the people at the top and 99% of the time are complete and utter nonsense

No you silly boy. Historians pick apart the official versions. The historians job is to work out if the official version is accurate, and if not why not; and if the official version is not accurate, was in intentionally not accurate.

Then if a case can be made for the official version of events to be considered inaccurate, the historian has consider why this would be so. Who wrote it, what did they have to gain, did the lie succeed etc.

But as I said before, you would know this if you had an education.

NewNick · 11-18-2012, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyClips

Then any historian should be able to pick apart what happened on 9/11. A 5 year old could do that, same with the Holocaust and any other "major" event in history

Correct Johnny, and people who know considerably more about those events then you are in agreement about the basic facts surrounding those events.

1.
Nazis Germany set out to eliminate the Jewish race in the countries that they occupied during WWII. This is not opinion it is fact. It is well documented ( by the Nazis ), there are first hand witness accounts by the thousand, and some of the leaders of the Nazi party and their allies confirmed this by voluntarily pleading guilty in the war crime trials that followed.

You can dispute the numbers murdered, but the basic premise is only disputed by those with a very extreme political outlook.

2.
9/11 was a terrorist plot carried out by Muslim Fundamentalists. Their group was heavily influenced by Al Queda and Osama Bin Laden.

There are elements of this explanation that "truthers" argue suggests this is not the case, ( the third building, the demolition theory, etc ) but when you consider all of the evidence rationally these points do not have enough weight to convince me that the official version is not broadly correct. ( the alternative that their was some Bush/CIA/Jewish plot to fly planes into buildings just does not have any credible evidence to support it. )

So Johnny, because the official version in both cases is still considered to be valid, does it automatically mean that they are lies ?

Or does it mean it is actually your world view that should be ridiculed ?

Frank21 · 11-18-2012, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty F

With all the conspiracy idiots and jew haters here i bet there are quite a few.

Come on, i know you want to admit it.

If you give me the defenition of "The Holocaust" then i can say yes or no.

Frank21 · 11-18-2012, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewNick

Correct Johnny, and people who know considerably more about those events then you are in agreement about the basic facts surrounding those events.

1.
Nazis Germany set out to eliminate the Jewish race in the countries that they occupied during WWII. This is not opinion it is fact. It is well documented ( by the Nazis ), there are first hand witness accounts by the thousand, and some of the leaders of the Nazi party and their allies confirmed this by voluntarily pleading guilty in the war crime trials that followed.

You can dispute the numbers murdered, but the basic premise is only disputed by those with a very extreme political outlook.

This is not correct The Holocaust requires a number of 6 million jewish deaths.
When they downgraded the murdercount of auschwich from 4 million to 1.5 million the 6 million also remained.

What about the hundreds of thousends of eye witness accounts that where proven frauds or otherwise unvalid?

Like german generals testimonials that at least 25 million jews were killed?
What about the false claims and "evidence" in the kangaroo nurenberg trials?

Lamps made of jewskin ehhh goatskin after testing.
Soap made of gassed jews ........

Cherry7 · 11-18-2012, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Kawaii

History is written by the winners and TPTB. If anyone cannot get that they need to start from scratch. I think many people deny the inaccuracy of history because they are afraid or deluded or simply uneducated, ignorant, have other interests.

Governments are based on and operate by fabrications that move their agenda forward. Their agenda is set by the powers who put the gov in place. Its not that difficult to understand.

Don't believe me?
Ask the Native Americans.
Ask Africans
Ask, Ask, Ask, "Why"

If you want to read a history of the native Americans..

Bury my heart at Wounded Knee

Not an official history.

Eric Hobsbawn, historian and communist will give you a radical version NOT official version of history.

Globalistion Democracy and Terrorism

The powerful do not need to fake and create false total histories as people are too lazy to read books. Thats how it works by fooling most of the people not all of them.

Part of controlling people is also creating and propagating false and stupid theories...

NewNick · 11-18-2012, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank21

This is not correct The Holocaust requires a number of 6 million jewish deaths.
When they downgraded the murdercount of auschwich from 4 million to 1.5 million the 6 million also remained.

What about the hundreds of thousends of eye witness accounts that where proven frauds or otherwise unvalid?

Like german generals testimonials that at least 25 million jews were killed?
What about the false claims and "evidence" in the kangaroo nurenberg trials?

Lamps made of jewskin ehhh goatskin after testing.
Soap made of gassed jews ........

Why does the holocaust "require 6 million jewish deaths" ?

The figure of six million comes from rough estimates of Jewish populations before and after the war.

People that deny the holocaust always get hung up on the figures. if the figures were revised downwards to 5, 4, 3, 2 million is it no longer heinous genocide ?

In a way Johnny is less of a problem here. He does not believe because he does not believe anything exists unless it suits his anti establisment dogma. However those that wish to reinforce their racism by calling the holocaust a fraud are the dangerous ones.

Frank21 · 11-18-2012, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewNick

Why does the holocaust "require 6 million jewish deaths" ?

The figure of six million comes from rough estimates of Jewish populations before and after the war.

People that deny the holocaust always get hung up on the figures. if the figures were revised downwards to 5, 4, 3, 2 million is it no longer heinous genocide ?

In a way Johnny is less of a problem here. He does not believe because he does not believe anything exists unless it suits his anti establisment dogma. However those that wish to reinforce their racism by calling the holocaust a fraud are the dangerous ones.

Thats why i asked you first to provide a defenition of the sentence "The Holocaust".
In europe you can get jailed for a decade for saying that maybe not 6 million but only 3 million jews got killed in the war among 40+ million europeans.

So if you ask something but you can not even provide a defenition your whole thread is wortless.

You seem to think you know everything have you ever seen all the tapes of the nurenberg trials?
Have you compared those trials with international court rules?

What about the 4 million german soldiers starved to death in the eisenhouwers deathcamps AFTER the war had ended?
What about Nuclair bombs on civilian cities?
What about the firebombing of Dresden 500 000 thousend civilian refugees murderred.
What about the hundreds of thousends civilians executed by the americans, british and russians? And then we not even talking about the massive widescale rape of civilian girls in europe by americans and russians.

CaptainHowdy · 11-18-2012, 03:13 PM

I only deny my very own existence ...

Captain Kawaii · 11-18-2012, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

If you want to read a history of the native Americans..

Bury my heart at Wounded Knee

Not an official history.

Eric Hobsbawn, historian and communist will give you a radical version NOT official version of history.

Globalistion Democracy and Terrorism

The powerful do not need to fake and create false total histories as people are too lazy to read books. Thats how it works by fooling most of the people not all of them.

Part of controlling people is also creating and propagating false and stupid theories...

Hey.
Yeah, I've read that. Heart-breaking (Bury My Heart...) book. I also read the later books. Ex-US Army officer and his partner wrote them. Kim Brown I want to say? Read those and you will come to despise US Gov as I do.

It's true. Most people are sheep who do not want to know the facts. The lies will suffice as long as their master pays them on Friday. Its an old sad story.

Mutt · 11-18-2012, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

I personally know three people with numbers tattooed on their arms that swear that this was not one of Hitler's summer camps for Jews, Gypsies, and Communists. One of these people was a Jewish Pole 13 years old when he arrived at Auschwitz his family. He never saw his family again and survived by doing the unthinkable -- he was a very sad man.

My father was in Patton's Third Army, 8th Infantry, medical company. He landed third wave on D-Day, was in the Ardennes (Battle of the Bulge), and helped the liberated concentration camp survivors at Buchenwald concentration camp, near Weimar, Germany.

I heard the stories of what was seen at Buchenwald concentration camp first hand from my father. Anecdotal? There are too many evidential documents and survivors' collaborated testimonies to even claim that the stories are anecdotal. There is proof enough for me.

wow, your father served in Patton's Third Army - he is one of my all time heroes. The Germans feared him and why Patton was a decoy preceding D-Day, the Germans thought Patton was the best Allied commander, feared him and assumed his army would be leading any invasion on the beaches of France. Patton was in England on D-Day, leading an imaginary/fake army made up of inflatable tanks/jeeps/aircraft to fool the Germans, maybe the greatest trickery in modern military history. Patton hated not being involved in the middle of the action on D-Day. The Third Army didn't land at Normandy until August 1st. What Patton and the Third Army did from there is now the stuff of WWII legend. The Third Army broke out of Normandy and "advanced farther, captured more enemy prisoners, and liberated more territory in less time than any other army in history" So fast that the only thing that stopped them was they ran out of gas.

Sadly, there's a lot of evidence that Patton was an anti-Semite himself, though he chose a Jew to write his official biography and his personal secretary was Jewish.

I won't even comment on the rest of the utter crap in this thread typed by racist losers who woudn't even be fit to serve in anybody's army.

scottybuzz · 11-18-2012, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt

wow, your father served in Patton's Third Army - he is one of my all time heroes. The Germans feared him and why Patton was a decoy preceding D-Day, the Germans thought Patton was the best Allied commander, feared him and assumed his army would be leading any invasion on the beaches of France. Patton was in England on D-Day, leading an imaginary/fake army made up of inflatable tanks/jeeps/aircraft to fool the Germans, maybe the greatest trickery in modern military history. Patton hated not being involved in the middle of the action on D-Day. The Third Army didn't land at Normandy until August 1st. What Patton and the Third Army did from there is now the stuff of WWII legend. The Third Army broke out of Normandy and "advanced farther, captured more enemy prisoners, and liberated more territory in less time than any other army in history" So fast that the only thing that stopped them was they ran out of gas.

Sadly, there's a lot of evidence that Patton was an anti-Semite himself, though he chose a Jew to write his official biography and his personal secretary was Jewish.

I won't even comment on the rest of the utter crap in this thread typed by racist losers who woudn't even be fit to serve in anybody's army.

I watched the film! It was great!

Captain Kawaii · 11-18-2012, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottybuzz

I watched the film! It was great!

LOL. I was thinking the same thing.

Mutt · 11-18-2012, 09:52 PM

yeah i love that movie, George C Scott was brilliant in it - most of the people who knew Patton said he nailed it, though Patton's own voice was higher. Patton also was much more profane in real life than in the movie. A larger than life character.

A few years ago a book came out that purported that Patton's freaky death was an assasination - killed by an OSS(CIA) assassin with the involvement of the KGB. Patton was an angry bastard, after the war ended in Europe he wanted to be sent to the Pacific - the guy just loved being in the middle of the action, they gave him the job of running occupied Germany/Bavaria, not a job a man like Patton wanted. The story goes that Patton was going to blow the whistle on his higher ups including Eisenhower. He also wanted to continue the war and defeat Stalin, he hated Stalin more than Hitler. The conspiracy theory has some interesting facts/hypotheses but none of them have been really proven. His car accident was a very strange way for somebody like him to die.

DTK · 11-18-2012, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crucifissio

I come from a 3rd world country that was recently involved in 2 wars. I have seen history re-written in a way that you would not believe. I'm not against jews or pro german or what ever....but you can rest assured that history books are accounts of winners and that they do not necessarily have to be entirely true.

Whether more or less jews were killed than the official figures say I honestly don't know but "official history" is made official by the victors of any conflict...

This is exactly what so many people fail to realize.

Cherry7 · 11-19-2012, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTK

This is exactly what so many people fail to realize.

In a dictatorship the rulers control history, in a lot of the capitalist democracies the mass media has a dominant version of events and history BUT.....

there are dissident voices in a space created by struggle by opponents of the system. There are alternative historians,newspapers, blogs and activists.

The difference between the Germans killed and the Jews and solders killed is who started the war and why. The fascist racist powers launched aggressive imperialist wars of conquest treating their opponents is sub human. All the other countries, although not perfect, tried to stop war.

Patton had mad views about being reincarnated, was a racist, and beat his own shell shocked soldiers. He would have been more at home fighting with the Germans.

sperbonzo · 11-19-2012, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Kawaii

Well in the US, much of the media is controlled by Jewish-Zionists. It is a simple fact.

Which is funny, because for months now Hamas has been firing hundreds of rockets into Israel and there has been NOT ONE WORD about it in the US Jewish/zionist controlled media, until Israel started fighting back and people were getting bombed in Gaza.

We Zionist Jews really need to get our shit together and start using all of these media outlets, (that we control), to get out the message about Hamas attacking Israel a little bit better, don't you think?

And then, all those crazy instances of anti-semitism in Eastern Europe, also ignored by the Jewish/Zionist US media? I really need to call my local branch of the "Protocols of Zion" committee. Since we control all this media, we REALLY need to start doing a better job of getting the word out!

.

.

Kolargol · 11-19-2012, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

BUT what history/jews fails to mention are the MILLIONS of Ukrainian/Russians that were starved/worked to death by the primarily Jewish Russian/Ukrainian secret police just 10 years earlier. Millions of non-Jews were killed, but you'll NEVER hear a Jew own up to that because they are too busy with their, we need sympathy hand out.

All true but the difference is they were not killed because they belonged to a certain nation or religion.

Kolargol · 11-19-2012, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyClips

There is absolutely nothing that I wrote there that is not true

Think about it...

How about coming to Europe and asking those survivors while you still can? BTW, are you they same guy who said few montgs ago that pretty much any school education is worthless?

madko · 11-19-2012, 10:29 AM

I do not question the holocaust(It HAPPENED), I only ask you guys .. why are we only talking about 10% of the total casualties? Do you know there where around 60 millions casualties .. in witch 24 millions where Soviet Union loss? Why we don't talk about Poles? gypsies? Chinese?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

@sperbonzo - yeah .. it's funny how nothing was out until the USA elections where over

oppoten · 11-19-2012, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

And then, all those crazy instances of anti-semitism in Eastern Europe, also ignored by the Jewish/Zionist US media? I really need to call my local branch of the "Protocols of Zion" committee. Since we control all this media, we REALLY need to start doing a better job of getting the word out!

Anti-semitism (or pro-Europeanism) is widespread in Eastern Europe.

That's why the media doesn't publicize it. It wants to portray it as a fringe minority belief than can easily be managed and marginalized.

helterskelter808 · 11-19-2012, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

Which is funny, because for months now Hamas has been firing hundreds of rockets into Israel and there has been NOT ONE WORD about it in the US Jewish/zionist controlled media, until Israel started fighting back and people were getting bombed in Gaza.

We Zionist Jews really need to get our shit together and start using all of these media outlets, (that we control), to get out the message about Hamas attacking Israel a little bit better, don't you think?

And then, all those crazy instances of anti-semitism in Eastern Europe, also ignored by the Jewish/Zionist US media? I really need to call my local branch of the "Protocols of Zion" committee. Since we control all this media, we REALLY need to start doing a better job of getting the word out.

Other places you won't find Jews, according to Sperbonzo: banking, medicine, law, Synagogues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kolargol

All true but the difference is they were not killed because they belonged to a certain nation or religion.

Fuck 'em then, huh?

_Richard_ · 11-19-2012, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

I personally know three people with numbers tattooed on their arms that swear that this was not one of Hitler's summer camps for Jews, Gypsies, and Communists. One of these people was a Jewish Pole 13 years old when he arrived at Auschwitz his family. He never saw his family again and survived by doing the unthinkable -- he was a very sad man.

My father was in Patton's Third Army, 8th Infantry, medical company. He landed third wave on D-Day, was in the Ardennes (Battle of the Bulge), and helped the liberated concentration camp survivors at Buchenwald concentration camp, near Weimar, Germany.

I heard the stories of what was seen at Buchenwald concentration camp first hand from my father. Anecdotal? There are too many evidential documents and survivors' collaborated testimonies to even claim that the stories are anecdotal. There is proof enough for me.

It is immaterial if 200,000 or 6,000,000 persons of a hated religious heritage were systematically worked to death or exterminated by the Nazis. In any case, this is genocide and a crime against humanity. As for the Jew's Holocaust to take some precedence over other genocides it only does as to the magnitude of the event not in the event's criminality. A genocide of any people should have the same standing of a criminal event.

500,000 died recently in the Rwandan Genocide would you deny that too? 1,400,000 in Pol Pot's Killing Fields -- than didn't happen either? Or maybe, only your own hatred and/or racism could justify your denial of the genocides that you agree with?

Maybe, in today's world we document things better but that would not change the events of the conquests of Genghis Khan or Timur (Tamerlane) and their slaughter of civilians. Mini genocides of peoples but of lesser magnitude than Hitler's Nazi Holocaust's "Final Solution." The records are hearsay but that doesn't mean that the accounts were false -- it was long ago ...

lets see some nuke pics of japan!

NewNick · 11-19-2012, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyClips

A historian only looks at "official" documents, which of course will never incriminate the officials who created them. Duh. "Officialdom" has nothing to do with the truth at all. The official stories come from the people at the top and 99% of the time are complete and utter nonsense

Wrong again Johnny.

A historian looks at all of the available evidence, official and otherwise. It is the historians duty to investigate the validity of the official version of events.

Why do you think that the politicians and generals from WWI are so roundly despised and mocked for their ridiculous ans murderous policies ? The official version at the time was completely different. The official version was as far from the truth as you could imagine. It is the revision that historical study gives us that brought out the real truth.

It was Historical study of all of the evidence that showed us the cowardice and monumental stupidity that sent millions of young men to their pathetic miserable deaths. It is The rigour of historical investigation that brought out the actual truth.

So your theory holds no water whatsoever.

However WWII and the holocaust is the most studied event in all of history. No other period has been investigated by more poeple in such details. Libraries full of books have been written, mountains of documents have been studied.

And then you Johnny dismiss the whole thing with a shake of your stupid head because you have an unfailing dogma which explains everything for you.

Dont you see who is the one with the closed mind here Johnny ?

The one who cannot think for himself ?

The one who is brainwashed ?

You have the same dogmatic answer for everything - but it not something you even thought of yourself !

Do you really not see the irony ?

helterskelter808 · 11-19-2012, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewNick

Do you really not see the irony ?

Do you not see the irony of defending and making the case for historical revision and 'uncovering truth' while writing off revisionists of this particular historical event?

NewNick · 11-19-2012, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helterskelter808

Do you not see the irony of defending and making the case for historical revision and 'uncovering truth' while writing off revisionists of this particular historical event?

I am writing it off based on the evidence.

Not because it suits my ideology.

There is a big difference.

helterskelter808 · 11-19-2012, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewNick

I am writing it off based on the evidence.

Not because it suits my ideology.

There is a big difference.

So you're assuming that everyone who 'revises' history is doing it for totally academic and un-ideological reasons. Except when it comes to this particular event, whereupon ideology can be the only possible reason?

And BTW, why does it even matter what the ideology or motivation of the historian is, if what they uncover turns out to be factually correct?

Rochard · 11-19-2012, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madko

I do not question the holocaust(It HAPPENED), I only ask you guys .. why are we only talking about 10% of the total casualties? Do you know there where around 60 millions casualties .. in witch 24 millions where Soviet Union loss? Why we don't talk about Poles? gypsies? Chinese?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

@sperbonzo - yeah .. it's funny how nothing was out until the USA elections where over

There are differences in the types of casualties. Some were military, and others were innocent civilians who were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Some civilians died because of a complete lack of infrastructure as the war passed through their area - no government agencies, rampant disease, starvation, freezing to death, etc. Keep in mind that the war passed through various countries - such as France and Poland - and after military forces passed through there was no functioning government. The amount of loss here was staggering, and not only in human life.

But the difference is the Jews were intentionally targeted. It's mind blowing that a military power can choose and pick one race and attempt to dispose of them either by moving them, forcing them into harsh manual labor until they die, starving them to death, or just outright killing them. Imagine if the local police come to your house because of your nationality, arrest you and your entire family by force, and take you to be locked up in prison or worse to be killed. You did nothing wrong, but that's irrelevant - You have been sentenced to death just because of your nationality.

And it wasn't only Jews either. My grandmother's entire family was Polish, and her entire family was singled out and murdered and their house burned to the ground. They didn't have the luxury of going to a prison camp or even straight to the gas chambers; They were killed on the spot in their house - mother, father, brothers, and sisters. My grandmother was the only one who lived and by the end of the war she had moved to the US.

helterskelter808 · 11-19-2012, 03:27 PM

^ You spend two paragraphs trying to disagree with him, then finish by making exactly the fucking point he made, because you happened to remember non-Jewish people in your family were victims.

Cherry7 · 11-19-2012, 03:28 PM

The people who revise and deny the holocaust are not "alternative historians" they are not historians at all, they are fascists lying about the past.

They ignore the evidence and lie about facts that all real historians agree upon, historians from every political view point (except fascist )

The Jews communists homosexuals, Russians, Poles did not vanish into thin air, they were murdered in an industrial murder factory during a war German, Italian and Spanish fascist waged on the World from 1930 on wards.

The camps are still there, the gas cambers too, I have seen them with my own eyes, I have met the survivors, I met the first cameraman who shot the footage in Belson concentration camp.

The Germans denied when it was happening, they were made to look and forced to admit the truth. We owe it to the victims that we do not let the truth be distorted by the very murderers who did the crime.

helterskelter808 · 11-19-2012, 03:43 PM

^ Spain didn't wage war on anyone in WWII.

NewNick · 11-19-2012, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helterskelter808

So you're assuming that everyone who 'revises' history is doing it for totally academic and un-ideological reasons. Except when it comes to this particular event, whereupon ideology can be the only possible reason?

And BTW, why does it even matter what the ideology or motivation of the historian is, if what they uncover turns out to be factually correct?

There is a body of evidence that supports the broad theory that there was an officially sanctioned state powered policy of eliminating the Jewish people from the countries occupied by Nazi Germany during WWII.

Early evidence begins in the late 20's with Mein Kampf, the rise of National Socialism, the Stormtroopers, the street battles against the communists. The Nazis begin to have some democratic success and Hitler eventually becomes chancellor. Throughout this period his speeches and writing are filmed and widely reported in German and foreign press. His anti semitism is a central part of the political narrative. The first concentration camp is opened within weeks of Hitler taking office.
Then as soon power is cemented via imprisonment and murder of his rivals the lot of the Jews of europe takes significant turn for the worse. The Nuremberg laws remove Jews from positions of authority and ban them from owning property.
After the invasion of Poland and the outbreak of war the Jewish problem becomes acute for the Nazi leadership. The sheer numbers of Jews they are encountering in the conquered territories of the east (5m in Poland alone) drives them to increasingly barbourous acts. Commando groups are formed from particularly ardent anti semitic members of the SS, they roam the villages of Eastern Europe murdering whole communities wherever they find Jewish settlements. However this policy is slow and inefficient. A final solution is required.
The Warsaw ghetto is emptied and the wholesale industrial murder is now in full flow.

I could go on. Everything above is documented by the Nazis themselves. In their own newspapers and Nazi propaganda news films. Nothing is denied or challenged. Eye witness accounts are available. The body of evidence is enormous including the documents and official orders that detail the costs of transport and disposal of the Jews, and the expected return from the theft of their goods, clothes, hair, and teeth.

So I have no ideological axe to grind. But I know what my eyes tell me. I know that huge numbers of Jews perished at the hands Nazi Germany.

The dogs in the street know this.

Frank21 · 11-19-2012, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewNick

Wrong again Johnny.

A historian looks at all of the available evidence, official and otherwise. It is the historians duty to investigate the validity of the official version of events.

So then kindly provide me the evidence of gasschambers.
I have to remind you that eyewitness account are no evidence in any court of law without additional evidence.
All the "gaschambers" that are shown these days are built AFTER the war.

And for someone who can not even give the defenition of "The Holocaust" yuo have a big mouth but can not even give a defenition of something you claim to have evidence.

_Richard_ · 11-19-2012, 04:09 PM

I am a denier of a moral high ground for war:

hard to find pics of kids! wonder if it was being.. suppressed..

Frank21 · 11-19-2012, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewNick

A final solution is required.
The Warsaw ghetto is emptied and the wholesale industrial murder is now in full flow.

I could go on. Everything above is documented by the Nazis themselves. In their own newspapers and Nazi propaganda news films. Nothing is denied or challenged. Eye witness accounts are available. The body of evidence is enormous including the documents and official orders that detail the costs of transport and disposal of the Jews, and the expected return from the theft of their goods, clothes, hair, and teeth.

All you do is repeat the text from american propaganda, now please come with 1 official document stating millions of jews were gassed.

Show some of this orders from the nazis where they send jews to be gassed please i like to see them i have been searchng for years and years but can not find anything else then unspecific claims like yours.
You talk about evidenc but can not show anything where is the disconect?

Do you know there are curently also 5 million sets of civilian closes stored in americnan jails... not because they are gonna be killed by dear but just because they have to wear prison clothing.

Frank21 · 11-19-2012, 04:14 PM

Eisenhouwers deathcamps:

4 million german soldiers starved to death after the war had ended.

helterskelter808 · 11-19-2012, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewNick

There is a body of evidence that supports the broad theory that there was an officially sanctioned state powered policy of eliminating the Jewish people from the countries occupied by Nazi Germany during WWII.

The broad theory of WWI is that the Allies won and the Central Powers lost. What does that have to do with "cowardice and monumental stupidity" on the part of officers during the war?

History is not just about "broad theories", it's about details. People still believe in soap and lampshades to this day. Why is it desirable that people still believe something that is a lie? The Holocaust was a terrible enough event without needing ridiculous myths to 'support' it.

Why is it acceptable to examine and discuss the numbers of people killed in every other event in history, but not the Holocaust?

You said yourself "large" numbers of Jews died. Who is denying that?

Quote:

Early evidence begins in the late 20's with Mein Kampf, the rise of National Socialism, the Stormtroopers, the street battles against the communists. The Nazis begin to have some democratic success and Hitler eventually becomes chancellor. Throughout this period his speeches and writing are filmed and widely reported in German and foreign press. His anti semitism is a central part of the political narrative. The first concentration camp is opened within weeks of Hitler taking office.
Then as soon power is cemented via imprisonment and murder of his rivals the lot of the Jews of europe takes significant turn for the worse. The Nuremberg laws remove Jews from positions of authority and ban them from owning property.
After the invasion of Poland and the outbreak of war the Jewish problem becomes acute for the Nazi leadership. The sheer numbers of Jews they are encountering in the conquered territories of the east (5m in Poland alone) drives them to increasingly barbourous acts. Commando groups are formed from particularly ardent anti semitic members of the SS, they roam the villages of Eastern Europe murdering whole communities wherever they find Jewish settlements. However this policy is slow and inefficient. A final solution is required.
The Warsaw ghetto is emptied and the wholesale industrial murder is now in full flow.

I could go on.

Could you? Because that reads like it's from a book or transcript.

wehateporn · 11-19-2012, 04:17 PM

So many such events have taken place, but we only hear about them if they're of use politically

Frank21 · 11-19-2012, 04:19 PM

Bombing of totaly civilian city of dresden where all the refugees fled because it had no army targets.
Resulting in the burning of 500 000 civilian refugees:

Frank21 · 11-19-2012, 04:20 PM

"Liberator" churchil wanted to poisongass many mny millions of german civilians:

I should be prepared to do anything [Churchill's emphasis] that would hit the enemy in a murderous place. I may certainly have to ask you to support me in using poison gas. We could drench the cities of the Ruhr and many other cities in Germany ..., and if we do it, let us do it one hundred per cent.

—Winston Churchill, 'Most Secret' PRIME MINISTER'S PERSONAL MINUTE to the Chiefs of Staff, 6 July 1944[4]

_Richard_ · 11-19-2012, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank21

Eisenhouwers deathcamps:

4 million german soldiers starved to death after the war had ended.

wow

never heard that

Frank21 · 11-19-2012, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helterskelter808

History is not just about "broad theories", it's about details. People still believe in soap and lampshades to this day. Why is it desirable that people still believe something that is a lie? The Holocaust was a terrible enough event without needing ridiculous myths to 'support' it.

Exactly he repeats broad theories but presents them as facts, while they are just conspiracy theories without evidence.

NewNick · 11-19-2012, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank21

All you do is repeat the text from american propaganda, now please come with 1 official document stating millions of jews were gassed.

Show some of this orders from the nazis where they send jews to be gassed please i like to see them i have been searchng for years and years but can not find anything else then unspecific claims like yours.
You talk about evidenc but can not show anything where is the disconect?

Do you know there are curently also 5 million sets of civilian closes stored in americnan jails... not because they are gonna be killed by dear but just because they have to wear prison clothing.

Text from American propaganda ? Not sure what you mean by that.

Show you the evidence ? Where to start, well I suppose that any decent sized library would be a good place to start. But if you want more in depth information university libraries would be better. Now I am not saying that you must believe every word, but I am sure that you will be able to cross reference the evidence, and then check out the official archives that are quoted and refered to.

Tell me what would it take for you to believe ?

Would you tell me that an official Nazi document was forged ?

Would you tell me that nazi propaganda films were actually staged and filmed after the war ?

Would you tell me that the Nuremberg laws were made up and forged by the Zionists after the war ?

Would you tell me that whatever body of evidence is refered to, that it is all manufactured to support the Jewish/American fraud they call the holocaust ?

11-18-2012, 11:37 AM	#53
PornMD Mainstream Businessman Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: San Diego Posts: 9,291	I love it when people simply refuse to believe anything they didn't personally witness. The universe started when they were born. We'll all be fucked obviously when they die because without them to personally witness us all, we'll no longer exist. __________________ Want to crush it in mainstream with Facebook ads? Hit me up.

11-18-2012, 11:38 AM	#54
2012 So Fucking What Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 17,189	wow, i actually found better things to do than worry about it... like counting sand __________________ best host: Webair \| best sponsor: Kink \| best coder: 688218966 \| Go Fuck Yourself

11-18-2012, 03:13 PM	#66
CaptainHowdy Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Happy in the dark. Posts: 93,109	I only deny my very own existence ... __________________ FLASH SALE INSANITY! deal with a 100% Trusted Seller Buy Traffic Spots on a High-Quality Network 1 Year or Lifetime — That’s Right, Until the Internet Explodes!

11-18-2012, 09:52 PM	#71
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	yeah i love that movie, George C Scott was brilliant in it - most of the people who knew Patton said he nailed it, though Patton's own voice was higher. Patton also was much more profane in real life than in the movie. A larger than life character. A few years ago a book came out that purported that Patton's freaky death was an assasination - killed by an OSS(CIA) assassin with the involvement of the KGB. Patton was an angry bastard, after the war ended in Europe he wanted to be sent to the Pacific - the guy just loved being in the middle of the action, they gave him the job of running occupied Germany/Bavaria, not a job a man like Patton wanted. The story goes that Patton was going to blow the whistle on his higher ups including Eisenhower. He also wanted to continue the war and defeat Stalin, he hated Stalin more than Hitler. The conspiracy theory has some interesting facts/hypotheses but none of them have been really proven. His car accident was a very strange way for somebody like him to die. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

11-19-2012, 10:29 AM	#77
madko Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 566	I do not question the holocaust(It HAPPENED), I only ask you guys .. why are we only talking about 10% of the total casualties? Do you know there where around 60 millions casualties .. in witch 24 millions where Soviet Union loss? Why we don't talk about Poles? gypsies? Chinese? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties @sperbonzo - yeah .. it's funny how nothing was out until the USA elections where over __________________ icq:222235540 skype:madko.d email: madkodesign at gmail dot com ------------------------------------

11-18-2012, 10:10 AM	#51
Vapid - BANNED FOR LIFE Barterer Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,864	I'll deny you your holocaust every time.

11-18-2012, 01:24 PM	#57
Vapid - BANNED FOR LIFE Barterer Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,864	They lay it on thick for sure JohnnyClips.

11-19-2012, 03:27 PM	#86
helterskelter808 So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,405	^ You spend two paragraphs trying to disagree with him, then finish by making exactly the fucking point he made, because you happened to remember non-Jewish people in your family were victims. Last edited by helterskelter808; 11-19-2012 at 03:30 PM..

11-19-2012, 03:28 PM	#87
Cherry7 Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,564	The people who revise and deny the holocaust are not "alternative historians" they are not historians at all, they are fascists lying about the past. They ignore the evidence and lie about facts that all real historians agree upon, historians from every political view point (except fascist ) The Jews communists homosexuals, Russians, Poles did not vanish into thin air, they were murdered in an industrial murder factory during a war German, Italian and Spanish fascist waged on the World from 1930 on wards. The camps are still there, the gas cambers too, I have seen them with my own eyes, I have met the survivors, I met the first cameraman who shot the footage in Belson concentration camp. The Germans denied when it was happening, they were made to look and forced to admit the truth. We owe it to the victims that we do not let the truth be distorted by the very murderers who did the crime. __________________ My Neighbour Butterfly PORN-The Musical The Long Goodbye Cinema Erotique

11-19-2012, 03:43 PM	#88
helterskelter808 So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,405	^ Spain didn't wage war on anyone in WWII.

11-19-2012, 04:09 PM	#91
_Richard_ Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 30,985	I am a denier of a moral high ground for war: hard to find pics of kids! wonder if it was being.. suppressed..

11-19-2012, 04:14 PM	#93
Frank21 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 733	Eisenhouwers deathcamps: 4 million german soldiers starved to death after the war had ended. __________________ www.Rate-My-Pussylips.com - FuckingFetish.com - for sale!!! - ExxGfs.com icq#: 598425939

11-19-2012, 04:17 PM	#95
wehateporn Promoting Debate on GFY Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 27,173	So many such events have taken place, but we only hear about them if they're of use politically __________________ Sexy Girls Teasing

11-19-2012, 04:19 PM	#96
Frank21 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 733	Bombing of totaly civilian city of dresden where all the refugees fled because it had no army targets. Resulting in the burning of 500 000 civilian refugees: __________________ www.Rate-My-Pussylips.com - FuckingFetish.com - for sale!!! - ExxGfs.com icq#: 598425939

11-19-2012, 04:20 PM	#97
Frank21 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 733	"Liberator" churchil wanted to poisongass many mny millions of german civilians: I should be prepared to do anything [Churchill's emphasis] that would hit the enemy in a murderous place. I may certainly have to ask you to support me in using poison gas. We could drench the cities of the Ruhr and many other cities in Germany ..., and if we do it, let us do it one hundred per cent. —Winston Churchill, 'Most Secret' PRIME MINISTER'S PERSONAL MINUTE to the Chiefs of Staff, 6 July 1944[4] __________________ www.Rate-My-Pussylips.com - FuckingFetish.com - for sale!!! - ExxGfs.com icq#: 598425939