Executive Order for Gun Control - Page 4 - GoFuckYourself.com

vdbucks · 01-11-2013, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

Give up this fucking Rambo fantasy. Grow the fuck up.

1. The government isn't coming for you.

2. If they were, your rat-a-tat-tat wouldn't stop them anyway.

3. See #1.

It's a little ironic for you to tell me to "grow the fuck up" when guys like you form your arguments and "beliefs" based on fantasy, speculation and what you see on mainstream media; while completely ignoring the actual facts and statistics.

xenigo · 01-11-2013, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdbucks

The truly sad part is how none of you "anti gun" advocates seem to realize that the sudden increase of mass shootings is just a little too convenient... like all of a sudden the mainstream media and political figureheads start talking about banning guns and then all of a sudden, mass shootings increase tenfold...

But no.. we mustn't talk about those things less the mainstream media and their faithful followers start calling us "conspiracy theorists".

This phenomenon has been well documented. Where is the confusion?

Quote:

4. Why do you think the epidemic example is so relevant for other kinds of change? Is it just that it's an unusual and interesting way to think about the world?

No. I think it's much more than that, because once you start to understand this pattern you start to see it everywhere. I'm convinced that ideas and behaviors and new products move through a population very much like a disease does. This isn't just a metaphor, in other words. I'm talking about a very literal analogy. One of the things I explore in the book is that ideas can be contagious in exactly the same way that a virus is. One chapter, for example, deals with the very strange epidemic of teenage suicide in the South Pacific islands of Micronesia. In the 1970's and 1980's, Micronesia had teen suicide rates ten times higher than anywhere else in the world. Teenagers were literally being infected with the suicide bug, and one after another they were killing themselves in exactly the same way under exactly the same circumstances. We like to use words like contagiousness and infectiousness just to apply to the medical realm. But I assure you that after you read about what happened in Micronesia you'll be convinced that behavior can be transmitted from one person to another as easily as the flu or the measles can. In fact, I don't think you have to go to Micronesia to see this pattern in action. Isn't this the explanation for the current epidemic of teen smoking in this country? And what about the rash of mass shootings we're facing at the moment--from Columbine through the Atlanta stockbroker through the neo-Nazi in Los Angeles?

http://www.gladwell.com/tippingpoint/

vdbucks · 01-11-2013, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenigo

This phenomenon has been well documented. Where is the confusion?

http://www.gladwell.com/tippingpoint/

I'm not confused. Trying to relate the "tipping point" to the sudden influx of mass shootings is akin to grasping at straws; because these mass shootings haven't simply been happening all this time without people realizing it...

WuTang · 01-11-2013, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenigo

This phenomenon has been well documented. Where is the confusion?

http://www.gladwell.com/tippingpoint/

You seem to be confused. Your response was irrelevant to the topic you quoted. A Tipping Point has nothing to do with the coincidence that more school shootings have been being reported since the gun-control issue went on the docket. Obviously they weren't an issue prior because we would have heard about them. So what gives? This "Tipping Point" sounds like more liberal hog-wash to try and justify that their position in life believing that their Government is looking out for them, cares about them and would never do anything to harm them.

xenigo · 01-11-2013, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WuTang

You seem to be confused. Your response was irrelevant to the topic you quoted. A Tipping Point has nothing to do with the coincidence that more school shootings have been being reported since the gun-control issue went on the docket. Obviously they weren't an issue prior because we would have heard about them. So what gives? This "Tipping Point" sounds like more liberal hog-wash to try and justify that their position in life believing that their Government is looking out for them, cares about them and would never do anything to harm them.

Yeah, it's some liberal hogwash. You're a fucking dipshit.

The book is firmly grounded in reality and backed by science, not agenda. I know most Republicans don't believe in stuff like that... but give it a try sometime and the world might actually make sense.

Until then...

Pull your head out of your ass.

Robbie · 01-11-2013, 03:02 AM

How do pro-gun control advocates explain the city of Chicago?

Some of the toughest gun laws in the U.S. and the number one city for gun deaths.

1.You have to get a state permit to purchase a gun.

2.The city of Chicago requires registration of firearms. Residents must complete a firearm safety course, pass a background check including fingerprinting, and pay a $100 permit fee which is renewed every three years. Registration of any handgun assumes an additional one time fee of $15.

3.Owner license required

4. Automatic firearms, short-barreled shotguns, short-barreled rifles, and silencers prohibited. AOW (Any Other Weapon) and large-bore DD (Destructive Device) allowed with proper approval and tax stamp from ATF. Historically accurate short-barreled rifles possessed for the purpose of historical reenactment allowed by bona fide members of a nationally-recognized military reenactment organization.

5.Illinois residents must have a Firearm Owner's Identification (FOID) card, which is issued by the Illinois State Police

I'm thinking that criminals just don't give a damn about all those laws. All the gun laws have done is disarm law abiding citizens.

Can one of you folks who think that "tougher" gun laws will stop crime please explain Chicago to me? Obama of all people should know that it doesn't work, since that's his home town.

xenigo · 01-11-2013, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Can one of you folks who think that "tougher" gun laws will stop crime please explain Chicago to me? Obama of all people should know that it doesn't work, since that's his home town.

How does it work in the UK and Canada? Seems to be pretty effective over there. Something in the water?

WuTang · 01-11-2013, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenigo

Yeah, it's some liberal hogwash. You're a fucking dipshit.

The book is firmly grounded in reality and backed by science, not agenda. I know most Republicans don't believe in stuff like that... but give it a try sometime and the world might actually make sense.

Until then...

Pull your head out of your ass.

Ok, so let me get this straight. I try to get you to address the topic that you were clearly dodging, and I have my head in my ass. I see.

Nobody gives a fuck about your "How to be a Hogwash Man Loving Liberal" book.

"The book is firmly grounded in reality and backed by science"... This statement is firmly grounded in your opinion. I don't give a fuck about your opinions.

By the way I'm not a Republican. The gun control topic has nothing to do with politics. It has everything to do with our civil rights. Republican and Democrat alike. So, let's cut to the chase sausage-lover... Say "I am a democrat and do not want all of my civil liberties any longer." and let's go ahead and get that on record.

Bag of dicks... Go suck it.

tony286 · 01-11-2013, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Again, that just described a LOT of goth-acting kids.

Using that logic, people would have said that me and my buddies were probably going to kill people because we were the long haired, cigarette smoking, druggie, Pink Floyd-listening group of shy outsiders while our "peers" "were busy listening" to KC and The Sunshine Band in the 1970's.

Just because teenagers act out trying to be rebellious and original doesn't mean that it's a "sign" that they are going to grow up and eat young gay guys they pick up at the club.

As I understand it...all of Dahmer's neighbors were shocked at what happened because he was such nice guy.

Goth kids collect road kill and play with it? Do you have such a need to be right that you have to see that behavior as normal?Actually he was quiet not nice.

tony286 · 01-11-2013, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

How do pro-gun control advocates explain the city of Chicago?

Some of the toughest gun laws in the U.S. and the number one city for gun deaths.

1.You have to get a state permit to purchase a gun.

2.The city of Chicago requires registration of firearms. Residents must complete a firearm safety course, pass a background check including fingerprinting, and pay a $100 permit fee which is renewed every three years. Registration of any handgun assumes an additional one time fee of $15.

3.Owner license required

4. Automatic firearms, short-barreled shotguns, short-barreled rifles, and silencers prohibited. AOW (Any Other Weapon) and large-bore DD (Destructive Device) allowed with proper approval and tax stamp from ATF. Historically accurate short-barreled rifles possessed for the purpose of historical reenactment allowed by bona fide members of a nationally-recognized military reenactment organization.

5.Illinois residents must have a Firearm Owner's Identification (FOID) card, which is issued by the Illinois State Police

I'm thinking that criminals just don't give a damn about all those laws. All the gun laws have done is disarm law abiding citizens.

Can one of you folks who think that "tougher" gun laws will stop crime please explain Chicago to me? Obama of all people should know that it doesn't work, since that's his home town.

Unless u put tough gun laws everywhere one city doesnt work.because they can go to the state or town.

xenigo · 01-11-2013, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WuTang

Ok, so let me get this straight. I try to get you to address the topic that you were clearly dodging, and I have my head in my ass. I see.

Nobody gives a fuck about your "How to be a Hogwash Man Loving Liberal" book.

"The book is firmly grounded in reality and backed by science"... This statement is firmly grounded in your opinion. I don't give a fuck about your opinions.

By the way I'm not a Republican. The gun control topic has nothing to do with politics. It has everything to do with our civil rights. Republican and Democrat alike. So, let's cut to the chase sausage-lover... Say "I am a democrat and do not want all of my civil liberties any longer." and let's go ahead and get that on record.

Bag of dicks... Go suck it.

Alright, Dippy... because you have an IQ of 10... I will explain it once again, and then I'm off to bed.

The question was: "Why are there so many more instances mass shootings happening all of a sudden? It must be a conspiracy!"

My answer was this: "Mass shootings are perpetuated by social influences that encourage others to continue the trend. There's a book that discusses the phenomenon by Malcolm Gladwell called Tipping Point that explains it well."

And then you come in and spew some garbage about how the book is clearly "liberal", when clearly you don't know what you're talking about. The book is not political whatsoever, it is scientific. It is only based on studies, and the author analyses it, talks to experts on the subject, and publishes it.

And you making short-sighted judgements about topics you clearly have not studied makes you a dim-witted asshole, with your head up your ass.

If you're going to talk shit, at least know what you're talking about before you do it.

vdbucks · 01-11-2013, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

How do pro-gun control advocates explain the city of Chicago?

Some of the toughest gun laws in the U.S. and the number one city for gun deaths.

1.You have to get a state permit to purchase a gun.

2.The city of Chicago requires registration of firearms. Residents must complete a firearm safety course, pass a background check including fingerprinting, and pay a $100 permit fee which is renewed every three years. Registration of any handgun assumes an additional one time fee of $15.

3.Owner license required

4. Automatic firearms, short-barreled shotguns, short-barreled rifles, and silencers prohibited. AOW (Any Other Weapon) and large-bore DD (Destructive Device) allowed with proper approval and tax stamp from ATF. Historically accurate short-barreled rifles possessed for the purpose of historical reenactment allowed by bona fide members of a nationally-recognized military reenactment organization.

5.Illinois residents must have a Firearm Owner's Identification (FOID) card, which is issued by the Illinois State Police

I'm thinking that criminals just don't give a damn about all those laws. All the gun laws have done is disarm law abiding citizens.

Can one of you folks who think that "tougher" gun laws will stop crime please explain Chicago to me? Obama of all people should know that it doesn't work, since that's his home town.

The answer is obvious... They don't care about the facts; and they don't care about the illegal guns, just the legal ones because that's all the mainstream media is telling them to care about...

tony286 · 01-11-2013, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdbucks

The answer is obvious... They don't care about the facts; and they don't care about the illegal guns, just the legal ones because that's all the mainstream media is telling them to care about...

illegals guns didnt kill the little children or the people in the movie theater or the firemen coming to put out a fire.

BlackCrayon · 01-11-2013, 09:26 AM

everyone keeps going on about how criminals will be the only people with guns if laws are put in place blah blah...doesn't everyone realize that we are all one decision away from being criminals? that todays law abiding citizen could be tomorrows deranged criminal? its a pointless argument because its not like there is a group of people that are criminals from birth and another group that are law abiding responsible citizens from birth.

vdbucks · 01-11-2013, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

everyone keeps going on about how criminals will be the only people with guns if laws are put in place blah blah...doesn't everyone realize that we are all one decision away from being criminals? that todays law abiding citizen could be tomorrows deranged criminal? its a pointless argument because its not like there is a group of people that are criminals from birth and another group that are law abiding responsible citizens from birth.

As of right now, there are 2 groups...

1 group owns their firearms legally. This is the group of people you anti gun nuts are talking about when it comes to banning guns.

1 group owns their firearms illegally. This is the group of people that you currently ignore, yet the same group who are responsible for the bulk amount of firearm related injuries/deaths.

And "legal owners being one decision away from being illegal owners" is a pretty pathetic attempt at trying to classify all gun owners as criminals just to suit your own mainstream media fed "beliefs". The problem with people like you is you believe in nothing... nothing other than what you see on the television.

Rochard · 01-11-2013, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

How do pro-gun control advocates explain the city of Chicago?

Some of the toughest gun laws in the U.S. and the number one city for gun deaths.

1.You have to get a state permit to purchase a gun.

2.The city of Chicago requires registration of firearms. Residents must complete a firearm safety course, pass a background check including fingerprinting, and pay a $100 permit fee which is renewed every three years. Registration of any handgun assumes an additional one time fee of $15.

3.Owner license required

4. Automatic firearms, short-barreled shotguns, short-barreled rifles, and silencers prohibited. AOW (Any Other Weapon) and large-bore DD (Destructive Device) allowed with proper approval and tax stamp from ATF. Historically accurate short-barreled rifles possessed for the purpose of historical reenactment allowed by bona fide members of a nationally-recognized military reenactment organization.

5.Illinois residents must have a Firearm Owner's Identification (FOID) card, which is issued by the Illinois State Police

I'm thinking that criminals just don't give a damn about all those laws. All the gun laws have done is disarm law abiding citizens.

Can one of you folks who think that "tougher" gun laws will stop crime please explain Chicago to me? Obama of all people should know that it doesn't work, since that's his home town.

Wow, stunning... Chicago has great laws. It's homicide rate is down by, I don't know, say HALF....

Seriously, how do you not that? Homicides topped out at nearly one thousand a year. last year they had five hundred.

You guys are beating the war drum using Chicago as an example, when homicides are down by half. You guys also use the UK as an example, and they have less gun violence there then the Swiss.

WTF?

Rochard · 01-11-2013, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

illegals guns didnt kill the little children or the people in the movie theater or the firemen coming to put out a fire.

And legal guns didn't protect them either.

The concept of people with guns will protect us doesn't work. Columbine had armed guards, didn't make a difference. There was a shooting in a school in Taft California yesterday - school employees a full time armed guard who called in sick. Hundreds of thousands of dollars spent over the years for an armed guard, the one time he is needed he wasn't there, and even if he was there the end result would have been the exact same.

BlackCrayon · 01-11-2013, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdbucks

As of right now, there are 2 groups...

1 group owns their firearms legally. This is the group of people you anti gun nuts are talking about when it comes to banning guns.

1 group owns their firearms illegally. This is the group of people that you currently ignore, yet the same group who are responsible for the bulk amount of firearm related injuries/deaths.

And "legal owners being one decision away from being illegal owners" is a pretty pathetic attempt at trying to classify all gun owners as criminals just to suit your own mainstream media fed "beliefs". The problem with people like you is you believe in nothing... nothing other than what you see on the television.

not just legal gun owners but EVERYONE IN THE WORLD is one decision away from postive or negative, legal or illegal actions, etc, etc. thats just reality. to assume legal gun owners will never use their gun for an illegal act is obviously untrue. sure, the majority don't but what i am saying is there is no black and white. no this group good, this group bad scenarios. i am not ignoring illegal gun owners either as all illegal guns start out as legal at some point in the food chain. i don't watch television news shows either, so your attempt and painting me a certain color is incorrect.

PR_Glen · 01-11-2013, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo

Ok, so it's more important to restrict mentally "ill" people from owning a firearm, but it's not just as important if not more important to restrict mentally "ill" people from having children?

Please explain.

that's a human rights issue, owning a gun is absolutely not.. for fuck sakes are you even able to come up with a sound argument on this issue?

WuTang · 01-11-2013, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenigo

Alright, Dippy... because you have an IQ of 10... I will explain it once again, and then I'm off to bed.

The question was: "Why are there so many more instances mass shootings happening all of a sudden? It must be a conspiracy!"

My answer was this: "Mass shootings are perpetuated by social influences that encourage others to continue the trend. There's a book that discusses the phenomenon by Malcolm Gladwell called Tipping Point that explains it well."

And then you come in and spew some garbage about how the book is clearly "liberal", when clearly you don't know what you're talking about. The book is not political whatsoever, it is scientific. It is only based on studies, and the author analyses it, talks to experts on the subject, and publishes it.

And you making short-sighted judgements about topics you clearly have not studied makes you a dim-witted asshole, with your head up your ass.

If you're going to talk shit, at least know what you're talking about before you do it.

My apologies. I didn't know you had a mental deficiency. I'll leave you alone. I don't want to be the guy that picked on the retard. Just please, don't go buy any guns. We don't want you shooting up any schools.

Voodoo · 01-11-2013, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

that's a human rights issue, owning a gun is absolutely not.. for fuck sakes are you even able to come up with a sound argument on this issue?

Just so we're on the same page, point me to the source of your information that states what you believe on what "human rights" are and that owning a gun is not one of them. I would like to know what document states this.

Because, to me, what you posted, sounds like an opinion stated as fact. If that is what you are doing, keep your opinions to yourself, especially since you are Canadian and this topic is related to U.S. law and our Civil Rights, not yours.

Thanks.

Vendzilla · 01-11-2013, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

actually everyone seems to forget the well formed militia part of the sentence.

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves ?"
Richard Henry Lee

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; ?"
Samuel Adams

"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside ? Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
Thomas Paine

Tony, you need to read the Federalist Papers and quit harping on the left BULLSHIT that can't fucking understand them. Tony, you're smarter than that!

Or maybe you can't understand this "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- (Thomas Jefferson)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCLGirls

Do you think that civil rights are absolute?

1st Amendment rights are not absolute (illegal to slander someone etc, illegal to yell fire in a crowded theater, CP is illegal too). 2nd Amendment is not absolute either. Better believe that the majority of people in this country do not want felons being able to legally own firearms...US Citizen or not.

Anyone can go in a get a restraining against you and while waiting for the court date, your right to own a gun has been taken away, without seeing a judge, without even seeing a court house, someone can take away your constitutional rights!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

But don't you see the difference?

Jeffrey Dahmer killed 17 people over a long period of time. The shooter in CT killed two dozen school kids in two or three minutes....

Guys with box cutters killed almost 3,000 people in one day, 9/11
Guy with a rental truck full of shit killed 168 people in one day

tony286 · 01-11-2013, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves ?"
Richard Henry Lee

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; ?"
Samuel Adams

"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside ? Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
Thomas Paine

Tony, you need to read the Federalist Papers and quit harping on the left BULLSHIT that can't fucking understand them. Tony, you're smarter than that!

Or maybe you can't understand this "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- (Thomas Jefferson)

Anyone can go in a get a restraining against you and while waiting for the court date, your right to own a gun has been taken away, without seeing a judge, without even seeing a court house, someone can take away your constitutional rights!

Guys with box cutters killed almost 3,000 people in one day, 9/11
Guy with a rental truck full of shit killed 168 people in one day

http://consortiumnews.com/2012/12/21...mendment-lies/

Right-wing resistance to meaningful gun control is driven, in part, by a false notion that America?s Founders adopted the Second Amendment because they wanted an armed population that could battle the U.S. government. The opposite is the truth, but many Americans seem to have embraced this absurd, anti-historical narrative.

The reality was that the Framers wrote the Constitution and added the Second Amendment with the goal of creating a strong central government with a citizens-based military force capable of putting down insurrections, not to enable or encourage uprisings. The key Framers, after all, were mostly men of means with a huge stake in an orderly society, the likes of George Washington and James Madison.

President George Washington, as Commander-in-Chief, leading a combined force of state militias against the Whiskey Rebellion in 1794.
The men who gathered in Philadelphia in 1787 weren?t precursors to France?s Robespierre or Russia?s Leon Trotsky, believers in perpetual revolutions. In fact, their work on the Constitution was influenced by the experience of Shays? Rebellion in western Massachusetts in 1786, a populist uprising that the weak federal government, under the Articles of Confederation, lacked an army to defeat.

PornoMonster · 01-11-2013, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Wow, stunning... Chicago has great laws. It's homicide rate is down by, I don't know, say HALF....

Seriously, how do you not that? Homicides topped out at nearly one thousand a year. last year they had five hundred.

You guys are beating the war drum using Chicago as an example, when homicides are down by half. You guys also use the UK as an example, and they have less gun violence there then the Swiss.

WTF?

So is the rest of the USA!

mikesouth · 01-11-2013, 12:21 PM

If you like the war on drugs....you will love the war on guns....

Robbie · 01-11-2013, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Wow, stunning... Chicago has great laws. It's homicide rate is down by, I don't know, say HALF....

Seriously, how do you not that? Homicides topped out at nearly one thousand a year. last year they had five hundred.

You guys are beating the war drum using Chicago as an example, when homicides are down by half. You guys also use the UK as an example, and they have less gun violence there then the Swiss.

WTF?

I'll go with all the things being reported instead of what you are saying. Here is just ONE report on it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2378073.html

That is for 2012: "Plagued by gang violence, Chicago surpassed last year's murder total of 433 in October and is set for the highest rate of homicide since the third largest U.S. city recorded 512 in 2008. The number is likely to top 500 on the last weekend of the year."

I don't know where you are getting your info on that. But you are 100% WRONG.

EDIT: The year before (2011) that you tried to claim was twice as much...was LESS by the way. That's why the news is saying homicide has SPIKED UP in Chicago despite the toughest gun laws in the country.

DWB · 01-11-2013, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

Unless u put tough gun laws everywhere one city doesnt work.because they can go to the state or town.

Or go country to country.

Unless every gun on earth is destroyed, every machine that could possibly make a gun is destroyed, and every person who knows how to make them locked away, people will find a way to get firearms. You can't stop it. Ever. Pandora's box is open.

But lets pretend this could happen. That won't stop people from being violent or killing others. How many IEDs have killed soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan? They are not difficult to make. How many people are knifed or clubbed to death every year? Point is, even with a total global gun ban, people are still going to find a way to kill each other. That's just what we do. From sticks and stones to swords to hatchets to our bare hands, humans will find a way to kill other humans.

Which leads me to my final comment. People are the problem. Not weapons.

Robbie · 01-11-2013, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

Right-wing resistance to meaningful gun control.

Got news for ya Tony. It's not just "right wing" (even though the media and politicians want us to think so).

EVERY American who cares about their rights and freedom are opposed to the govt. taking more control of our lives.

Here in my state...Democrat Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid was endorsed by the NRA. He gave a nice speech at a local gun range here with NRA Pres. Wayne LaPierre where Reid said: "There are people who are opposed to this..they are also probably opposed to Apple Pie"

This isn't a "Repub" Vs "Dem" situation EXCEPT in Washington D.C. and on the news.
I'm not a "right winger". But I think as long as there is a second amendment...then it's none of the federal govt.'s business whether I have a gun or not.

And I don't think that any of the things that Joe Biden has said over the last few days will stop these shootings.

I believe that some of these shootings are copycat induced. And if the media would quit milking it for ratings and politicians milking it for face time on the news...it would stop again.

PornoMonster · 01-11-2013, 12:43 PM

Watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyoLuTjguJA

Robbie · 01-11-2013, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

People are the problem. Not weapons.

Since the beginning of time.

Robbie · 01-11-2013, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

Watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyoLuTjguJA

Yep...when it was illegal to own a gun in Washington D.C. they had more gun violence than any other city.

Once the Supreme Court ruled that unconstitutional...crime went DOWN as people were now armed.

BlackCrayon · 01-11-2013, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

Or go country to country.

Unless every gun on earth is destroyed, every machine that could possibly make a gun is destroyed, and every person who knows how to make them locked away, people will find a way to get firearms. You can't stop it. Ever. Pandora's box is open.

But lets pretend this could happen. That won't stop people from being violent or killing others. How many IEDs have killed soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan? They are not difficult to make. How many people are knifed or clubbed to death every year? Point is, even with a total global gun ban, people are still going to find a way to kill each other. That's just what we do. From sticks and stones to swords to hatchets to our bare hands, humans will find a way to kill other humans.

Which leads me to my final comment. People are the problem. Not weapons.

so that means we should make it as easy as possible to do?

tony286 · 01-11-2013, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

Or go country to country.

Unless every gun on earth is destroyed, every machine that could possibly make a gun is destroyed, and every person who knows how to make them locked away, people will find a way to get firearms. You can't stop it. Ever. Pandora's box is open.

But lets pretend this could happen. That won't stop people from being violent or killing others. How many IEDs have killed soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan? They are not difficult to make. How many people are knifed or clubbed to death every year? Point is, even with a total global gun ban, people are still going to find a way to kill each other. That's just what we do. From sticks and stones to swords to hatchets to our bare hands, humans will find a way to kill other humans.

Which leads me to my final comment. People are the problem. Not weapons.

Why have laws against robbery and rape and murder its going to happen anyway? Im not saying ban but regulate. A Frank Luntz poll sated 74% of NRA gun owners agree with.

tony286 · 01-11-2013, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Got news for ya Tony. It's not just "right wing" (even though the media and politicians want us to think so).

EVERY American who cares about their rights and freedom are opposed to the govt. taking more control of our lives.

Here in my state...Democrat Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid was endorsed by the NRA. He gave a nice speech at a local gun range here with NRA Pres. Wayne LaPierre where Reid said: "There are people who are opposed to this..they are also probably opposed to Apple Pie"

This isn't a "Repub" Vs "Dem" situation EXCEPT in Washington D.C. and on the news.
I'm not a "right winger". But I think as long as there is a second amendment...then it's none of the federal govt.'s business whether I have a gun or not.

And I don't think that any of the things that Joe Biden has said over the last few days will stop these shootings.

I believe that some of these shootings are copycat induced. And if the media would quit milking it for ratings and politicians milking it for face time on the news...it would stop again.

74 percent NRA owners agree in better regulations. That poll was done by Frank Luntz.

GrantMercury · 01-11-2013, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

How do pro-gun control advocates explain the city of Chicago?

Some of the toughest gun laws in the U.S. and the number one city for gun deaths.

1.You have to get a state permit to purchase a gun.

2.The city of Chicago requires registration of firearms. Residents must complete a firearm safety course, pass a background check including fingerprinting, and pay a $100 permit fee which is renewed every three years. Registration of any handgun assumes an additional one time fee of $15.

3.Owner license required

4. Automatic firearms, short-barreled shotguns, short-barreled rifles, and silencers prohibited. AOW (Any Other Weapon) and large-bore DD (Destructive Device) allowed with proper approval and tax stamp from ATF. Historically accurate short-barreled rifles possessed for the purpose of historical reenactment allowed by bona fide members of a nationally-recognized military reenactment organization.

5.Illinois residents must have a Firearm Owner's Identification (FOID) card, which is issued by the Illinois State Police

I'm thinking that criminals just don't give a damn about all those laws. All the gun laws have done is disarm law abiding citizens.

Can one of you folks who think that "tougher" gun laws will stop crime please explain Chicago to me? Obama of all people should know that it doesn't work, since that's his home town.

Obviously, the answer to the problem doesn't lie in one single act. The issue of gun violence is complex, and it will never be entirely solved.

That doesn't mean anyone who thinks it's fucking stupid that we don't have universal background checks without loopholes, and who think that since there is no use for large-capacity magazines except to slaughter rooms full of people that the sale of them should end, is wrong. And at issue currently seems to be mass killings of innocent people, rather than 1-on-1 murders around drug deals.

GrantMercury · 01-11-2013, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

If someone like Holmes had to buy guns at a gun shop rather than online, he might never of been served. All it took was listening to his voice mail message from a run range to determine he was nuts and not allow him into their gun club. why people are allowed to buy any kind of firearms is beyond me. at the very least that should be stopped.

Sounds like common sense to me, but a gun nut would say you're like Hitler.

GrantMercury · 01-11-2013, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

Ding Ding Ding We have a winner.

If they are spread out, no big deal.
Wonder what ones suffered more pain? Not sure about this guy and his killings but BTK guy, wow, I think I would want an AR-15 to kill me not the BTK guy.

HEY! The gun nuts are on to something! Rather than ban the sale of high-capacity clips, we'll just prevent the next mass slaughter of innocents by banning mental illness!!

GrantMercury · 01-11-2013, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WuTang

Prove it. Otherwise, suck a dick. WHEN they do come, I'll be sure to mistake you for one of them.

Gun nut gun nut gun nut gun nut gun nut.

Vendzilla · 01-11-2013, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

http://consortiumnews.com/2012/12/21...mendment-lies/

Right-wing resistance to meaningful gun control is driven, in part, by a false notion that America?s Founders adopted the Second Amendment because they wanted an armed population that could battle the U.S. government. The opposite is the truth, but many Americans seem to have embraced this absurd, anti-historical narrative.

The reality was that the Framers wrote the Constitution and added the Second Amendment with the goal of creating a strong central government with a citizens-based military force capable of putting down insurrections, not to enable or encourage uprisings. The key Framers, after all, were mostly men of means with a huge stake in an orderly society, the likes of George Washington and James Madison.

President George Washington, as Commander-in-Chief, leading a combined force of state militias against the Whiskey Rebellion in 1794.
The men who gathered in Philadelphia in 1787 weren?t precursors to France?s Robespierre or Russia?s Leon Trotsky, believers in perpetual revolutions. In fact, their work on the Constitution was influenced by the experience of Shays? Rebellion in western Massachusetts in 1786, a populist uprising that the weak federal government, under the Articles of Confederation, lacked an army to defeat.

Conjecture, a proposition that is unproven

Besides, you're changing the subject as usual, I answered you on the idea of what a Militia is, you quote this ass hat that didn't read the constitution as the Supreme Court did.

The idea behind Militia's is that everyone is considered a militia. You do know that everyone in the US is required to serve the countries military?

It wasn't till 1903 till Militias were replaced by the national guard and I've seen them in action first hand, I'm keeping my guns. They will come to your home and tell you have to leave by their order, I will point a gun at their face and tell them to fuck off and that I know my rights and they don't have the authority without martial law to do that, FUCK THEM!!!

Again, when the 2nd amendment was written, it included everyone!

Go ahead debate using leftist bullshit written last month, I'll use the words of the constitution framers every time.

and please don't go on with that bullshit about a assault weapons, what exactly is an assault weapon? I've got my first BB Gun when I was 7, first rifle when I was 10, first pistol when I was 15 and shot every manner of firearm there is, from a Thompson Machine gun to flint lock horse pistols, Mac-10's to Ak-47's and AR-15's to M14's. of those firearms, I can do more damage with the M14 probably because of the accuracy and power of the round, a hunting round 30.06. , and of these guns, the Thompson I can't own and the AK I can't own, they want the AR-15, yet it doesn't do anything the M14 doesn't and is a smaller round, people that write this propaganda know JACK SHIT about guns.

BTW, the flint locks can be loaded with Magnesium Pellets and when fired the pellets ignite from the friction in the air to create whats called dragons breathe, you think a AR-15 does a lot of damage?

This is from a shot gun, it can be used in a flint lock very easily

tony286 · 01-11-2013, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

Sounds like common sense to me, but a gun nut would say you're like Hitler.

They keep mentioning Hitler.The truth is the only people Hitler didn't allow to have guns were jews. Everyone else had guns and there was no rising up against him. There was a ghetto that was armed and held the nazi's off, but eventually they lost. Other armed germans didnt run to their aid.

Robbie · 01-11-2013, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

That doesn't mean anyone who thinks it's fucking stupid that we don't have universal background checks without loopholes, and who think that since there is no use for large-capacity magazines except to slaughter rooms full of people that the sale of them should end, is wrong. And at issue currently seems to be mass killings of innocent people, rather than 1-on-1 murders around drug deals.

Then why don't we just repeal the 2nd amendment? All of the things you are saying sound reasonable. But they infringe on our constitutional rights. So repeal the 2nd amendment and be done with it.

Congress created the 18th amendment (prohibition) in 1920 and then repealed it via the 21st amendment in 1933

And when they decided it was time to get the money train rolling they created the 16th amendment in 1913 to make income tax constitutional.

Our political leaders have the ability to do whatever they want. All they have to do is amend the constitution and it's a done deal for anything they want to do.

And again..."mass killings" Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people including 19 under the age of 6 in a split second using a home made bomb.
We're gonna have to have a lot more mass shootings this year to catch up to what he did in the blink of an eye.

GrantMercury · 01-11-2013, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdbucks

It's a little ironic for you to tell me to "grow the fuck up" when guys like you form your arguments and "beliefs" based on fantasy, speculation and what you see on mainstream media; while completely ignoring the actual facts and statistics.

It's a fantasy that 20 1st graders were turned to hamburger by a lone gunman with war weapons?

And you really seem to be down on the "mainstream media". That's cool. So, what sources inform your worldview? Where do you get "the real shit"?

Rochard · 01-11-2013, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves ?"
Richard Henry Lee

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; ?"
Samuel Adams

"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside ? Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
Thomas Paine

Tony, you need to read the Federalist Papers and quit harping on the left BULLSHIT that can't fucking understand them. Tony, you're smarter than that!

Or maybe you can't understand this "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- (Thomas Jefferson)

Anyone can go in a get a restraining against you and while waiting for the court date, your right to own a gun has been taken away, without seeing a judge, without even seeing a court house, someone can take away your constitutional rights!

Guys with box cutters killed almost 3,000 people in one day, 9/11
Guy with a rental truck full of shit killed 168 people in one day

The term militia (pron.: /mɨˈlɪʃə/),[1] or irregular army, is commonly used today to refer to a military force composed of ordinary citizens[2] to provide defense, emergency law enforcement, or paramilitary service, in times of emergency without being paid a regular salary or committed to a fixed term of service.

tony286 · 01-11-2013, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Conjecture, a proposition that is unproven

Besides, you're changing the subject as usual, I answered you on the idea of what a Militia is, you quote this ass hat that didn't read the constitution as the Supreme Court did.

The idea behind Militia's is that everyone is considered a militia. You do know that everyone in the US is required to serve the countries military?

It wasn't till 1903 till Militias were replaced by the national guard and I've seen them in action first hand, I'm keeping my guns. They will come to your home and tell you have to leave by their order, I will point a gun at their face and tell them to fuck off and that I know my rights and they don't have the authority without martial law to do that, FUCK THEM!!!

Again, when the 2nd amendment was written, it included everyone!

Go ahead debate using leftist bullshit written last month, I'll use the words of the constitution framers every time.

and please don't go on with that bullshit about a assault weapons, what exactly is an assault weapon? I've got my first BB Gun when I was 7, first rifle when I was 10, first pistol when I was 15 and shot every manner of firearm there is, from a Thompson Machine gun to flint lock horse pistols, Mac-10's to Ak-47's and AR-15's to M14's. of those firearms, I can do more damage with the M14 probably because of the accuracy and power of the round, a hunting round 30.06. , and of these guns, the Thompson I can't own and the AK I can't own, they want the AR-15, yet it doesn't do anything the M14 doesn't and is a smaller round, people that write this propaganda know JACK SHIT about guns.

BTW, the flint locks can be loaded with Magnesium Pellets and when fired the pellets ignite from the friction in the air to create whats called dragons breathe, you think a AR-15 does a lot of damage?

This is from a shot gun, it can be used in a flint lock very easily

You believe what you want to believe. Militia meant Militia not some bullshit the NRA talking points told you. Because if it meant people , they would of used the term people. Im not saying ban I saying regulate.
Also you are being played the nra is bought and paid for by gun companies. Its not a second ammendment issue that makes them against regulation its a sales issue.
Wanna know who one of the biggest contributors of the nra is ? A company that makes high capcity magazines imagine that. lol

tony286 · 01-11-2013, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

The term militia (pron.: /mɨˈlɪʃə/),[1] or irregular army, is commonly used today to refer to a military force composed of ordinary citizens[2] to provide defense, emergency law enforcement, or paramilitary service, in times of emergency without being paid a regular salary or committed to a fixed term of service.

Also they use the term people how many times in constitution?

tony286 · 01-11-2013, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Then why don't we just repeal the 2nd amendment? All of the things you are saying sound reasonable. But they infringe on our constitutional rights. So repeal the 2nd amendment and be done with it.

Congress created the 18th amendment (prohibition) in 1920 and then repealed it via the 21st amendment in 1933

And when they decided it was time to get the money train rolling they created the 16th amendment in 1913 to make income tax constitutional.

Our political leaders have the ability to do whatever they want. All they have to do is amend the constitution and it's a done deal for anything they want to do.

And again..."mass killings" Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people including 19 under the age of 6 in a split second using a home made bomb.
We're gonna have to have a lot more mass shootings this year to catch up to what he did in the blink of an eye.

Why does have to one way or another? Thats not how the world works.

Vendzilla · 01-11-2013, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

74 percent NRA owners agree in better regulations. That poll was done by Frank Luntz.

NRA Owners? You mean members right?

This is true, but the gun laws are not written by people that know anything about guns, they are written by idiots that think regulation of legal possession is going to some how curb gun violence.

Go live in the places where gun regulation is strong and you hear gun shots most every night. Go to a place where gun ownership is taken responsibly and you only hear gun shots near a range.

vdbucks · 01-11-2013, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

It's a fantasy that 20 1st graders were turned to hamburger by a lone gunman with war weapons?

And you really seem to be down on the "mainstream media". That's cool. So, what sources inform your worldview? Where do you get "the real shit"?

No one was "turned to hamburger" as that would mean their bodies have been so brutally torn up from the gun fire that they would be unidentifiable... I'm sure you heard the term used on fox news or w/e though so it must be true!

Do you even know what hamburger meat looks looks like? Did any of the victims looks like hamburger meat? The answer is no, and therefore the answer to your question is... yes, "20 first graders being turned to hamburger by a lone gunman" is a complete fantasy.

GrantMercury · 01-11-2013, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Then why don't we just repeal the 2nd amendment? All of the things you are saying sound reasonable. But they infringe on our constitutional rights. So repeal the 2nd amendment and be done with it.

Congress created the 18th amendment (prohibition) in 1920 and then repealed it via the 21st amendment in 1933

And when they decided it was time to get the money train rolling they created the 16th amendment in 1913 to make income tax constitutional.

Our political leaders have the ability to do whatever they want. All they have to do is amend the constitution and it's a done deal for anything they want to do.

And again..."mass killings" Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people including 19 under the age of 6 in a split second using a home made bomb.
We're gonna have to have a lot more mass shootings this year to catch up to what he did in the blink of an eye.

Amending the Constitution isn't necessary. "...as part of a well-regulated militia..." is already in there. We need to start regulating.

And I'd be much more comfortable if everyone who wanted to kill innocent people - the kids at Columbine, the guy at Sandy Brook, the guy at the movie theater, etc. had to concoct their own bombs. They take way more effort than pulling a trigger, and the finished product is typically unreliable.

vdbucks · 01-11-2013, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

NRA Owners? You mean members right?

This is true, but the gun laws are not written by people that know anything about guns, they are written by idiots that think regulation of legal possession is going to some how curb gun violence.

Go live in the places where gun regulation is strong and you hear gun shots most every night. Go to a place where gun ownership is taken responsibly and you only hear gun shots near a range.

I can't recall exactly when, but some time ago it was legal to open carry wherever you went in Arizona. Guess who had the lowest murder/gun violence rate in the US during that time?

01-11-2013, 03:02 AM	#156
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,958	How do pro-gun control advocates explain the city of Chicago? Some of the toughest gun laws in the U.S. and the number one city for gun deaths. 1.You have to get a state permit to purchase a gun. 2.The city of Chicago requires registration of firearms. Residents must complete a firearm safety course, pass a background check including fingerprinting, and pay a $100 permit fee which is renewed every three years. Registration of any handgun assumes an additional one time fee of $15. 3.Owner license required 4. Automatic firearms, short-barreled shotguns, short-barreled rifles, and silencers prohibited. AOW (Any Other Weapon) and large-bore DD (Destructive Device) allowed with proper approval and tax stamp from ATF. Historically accurate short-barreled rifles possessed for the purpose of historical reenactment allowed by bona fide members of a nationally-recognized military reenactment organization. 5.Illinois residents must have a Firearm Owner's Identification (FOID) card, which is issued by the Illinois State Police I'm thinking that criminals just don't give a damn about all those laws. All the gun laws have done is disarm law abiding citizens. Can one of you folks who think that "tougher" gun laws will stop crime please explain Chicago to me? Obama of all people should know that it doesn't work, since that's his home town. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

01-11-2013, 09:26 AM	#164
BlackCrayon Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ottawa Posts: 19,631	everyone keeps going on about how criminals will be the only people with guns if laws are put in place blah blah...doesn't everyone realize that we are all one decision away from being criminals? that todays law abiding citizen could be tomorrows deranged criminal? its a pointless argument because its not like there is a group of people that are criminals from birth and another group that are law abiding responsible citizens from birth. __________________ you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

01-11-2013, 12:21 PM	#175
mikesouth Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My High Horse Posts: 6,346	If you like the war on drugs....you will love the war on guns.... __________________ Mike South It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

01-11-2013, 12:43 PM	#179
PornoMonster Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,257	Watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyoLuTjguJA __________________ $6 a Month 4 Blade Razors, 4 Cartridges, Includes shipping! Domains 4 Sale CashForVideos.com - Pussy.biz - FootPorn.com - SoloMovie.com - CollegeGirlCams.com - AmateurCamGirls.com - PR3 4 Letter Domain