[OMG Biz Thread] Post your reasons why sales are shrinking

[Cystomatic]

Post your top reasons why the sales are shrinking.

Here's mine:
1. Piracy. Why would I pay for a damn movie when I can get it for free?
2. Payments. It's too hard for users to pay, due to all the scams in the past, do people really trust us with their credit cards? (Something a friend told me a time ago, he just doesn't trust them with his sensitive data).


Note: I do know that the adult industry is FAR from dead, but we all have to agree that sales are shrinking and it's not as good as back in the day.

[kane]

Free Porn.

Go to google, type in pretty much any niche or pornstar name and the word free and you get a list of tubes with hours of free stuff.

[sojproductions]

We have a solo site business model so point 1 - Piracy - does affect us but not as much as a multi-model site may suffer as we have long term fans / admirers, our stuff is not easy to get for free apart from what we put out there and we actively DMCA as much as possible any stolen stuff which we hunt out daily.

So if someone wants more of our models they will hopefully pay one day, for us, any shrinkage is largely down to the economy, we surveyed thousands of customers, we had close to 500 responses for a poll, over 85% was 'can not afford it right now'.

[DamianJ]

1) Shit sites (content rotation, bad UI, DRM, etc)

2) Shit content (auto cropped thumbs, bored girls, bad fakers, rotation)

3) Shit marketing (no testing, no improving, spamming customers)

4) Shady practises (hidden x sales, card banging, spamming, even back to dialers and circle jerks)

5) Laziness

[Klen]

1)Search engines traffic dominated by tubes

[grandmascrotum]

* Tubes giving away far too much. Whole movies are on those things. They forgot the golden rule of "tease"
* Actually, everyone forgetting the golden rule of "tease" with their free content.
* Search engines giving all the top spots to tubes, as KlenTelaris says
* A lot of content that isn't particularly original or different.
* Failing US economy

That said, I think there are still sales to be made. I'm going on the idea that if bottled water can become a billion dollar industry when you can just get it out of the tap, then I can sell my good quality porn even when the tube sites are overflowing.

[PornDiscounts-V]

Google's algos killed a lot of stuff that used to be golden.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Free porn killed sales. Even the dumbest surfer understands that he can get all the porn he wants without spending a nickel.

Also, years ago there were much more people in the biz, traffic was spread very thin. Now only a few people control majority of traffic. Take SE's for example, where top ranks are controlled by a few companies.

[Google Expert]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

1) Shit sites (content rotation, bad UI, DRM, etc)
2) Shit content (auto cropped thumbs, bored girls, bad fakers, rotation)
3) Shit marketing (no testing, no improving, spamming customers)
4) Shady practises (hidden x sales, card banging, spamming, even back to dialers and circle jerks)
5) Laziness

Yes, because all that didn't exist years ago when everyone was making money hand over fist.

Moron.

[CYF]

Xsales..

[OldJeff]

Not seeing any shrinking, sales may be going elsewhere, but not even slowing down

[Google Expert]

Originally Posted by DWB

Na, piracy doesn't hurt anyone.

Originally Posted by DWB

No idea why anyone would join a pay site these days unless they couldn't get what they were looking for on a tube.

I think all the STDs you've picked up over the years from 3rd world skanks are affecting your brain.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Cylon

Yes, because all that didn't exist years ago when everyone was making money hand over fist.

Moron.

Oh bless you.

So, you don't think that fucking over our customers for years has taught them not to trust us?

I must say, adding name calling to your counterpoint really makes you seem erudite.

[woj]

[Cystomatic]

Originally Posted by woj

If there is nothing new and innovative, the industry will clearly decline. This applies to ALL industries, not just the adult biz.

[digitaldivas]

Man I dig all of you cats, but Blah. The Internet pretty much got popular in 1995. Hard to think, as fucking awesome as the internet is, that in 18 short years, this ride is over. I mean really?!?

I think we are bound by technology right now. I still look forward to maybe beating off to interactive holographs when I'm old.

...Now that shit would be fun as shit to shoot. But assholes will probably copy the tech even then. This tube thing is just round one, imho.

[L-Pink]

Porn customers have been trained to expect FREE product. A whole generation will NEVER pay for porn now.

.

[freecartoonporn]

laziness

[digitaldivas]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Porn customers have been trained to expect FREE product. A whole generation will NEVER pay for porn now.

.

Yes, L, I do agree to some extent about this. BUT, there are still "collectors" out there. Who will pay for good access and 1080p clips. Archivable shit.

[signupdamnit]

60% Piracy
20% Bad economy
20% Other (card banging, other free content, shaving, scrubbing, bank policies, etc)

Google goes with piracy because Google now favors the sites pirating content over other sites. So people type a niche search and the first page is full of free pirated content rather than your affiliate site.

[HushMoney]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

60% Piracy
20% Bad economy
20% Other (card banging, other free content, shaving, scrubbing, bank policies, etc)

Google goes with piracy because Google now favors the sites pirating content over other sites. So people type a niche search and the first page is full of free pirated content rather than your affiliate site.

Exactly this.

[mamaliga]

Originally Posted by kane

Free Porn.

Go to google, type in pretty much any niche or pornstar name and the word free and you get a list of tubes with hours of free stuff.

actualy free porno bring sales these days

[ravo]

You guys think that scamming surfers has just started now? Think back to 1998 and "Crescent". Card banging has been going on since day one.

And, there's always been lazy webmasters that take the easy way out. Who remembers XPics? Do you think they shaved? lol...

What I'm saying is that nothing is new in this business - it just keeps churning along. Frankly, I make more sales now than 10 years ago, because traffic volumes have exploded in the last 5 years. Sure, conversion ratios are down, and traffic values have dropped, but I've more than made up for it on volume.

[Some Guy]

1.) Piracy (tube sites) - Nobody's going to pay for anything if they can get it for free.

2.) Too many shitty sites - Too many websites out there, most of which suck. Traffic's spread too thin.

[brassmonkey]

think back to before the war on terror and there's your answer.

[JamesM]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

1) Shit sites (content rotation, bad UI, DRM, etc)

2) Shit content (auto cropped thumbs, bored girls, bad fakers, rotation)

3) Shit marketing (no testing, no improving, spamming customers)

4) Shady practises (hidden x sales, card banging, spamming, even back to dialers and circle jerks)

5) Laziness

QFT.

there are sites with best content and good practice making bank.

[purecane]

Surfers are now conditioned to look for free porn....its simply a by product of the business model....if you think about it...the actual MODEL has not changed in 20 years....get a trial...pay $40 a month....most of the sites out there are dinosaurs and most of the people who complain about it didnt understand marketing their product in the first place.....

If you actually PROVIDE a quality product...people will pay for it....in order to get sales....REAL SALES....you have to know marketing....very rarely in this biz are these 2 functions combined. most assume just because you put something in front of a surfers face they should buy it. its all about delivery. and anyone who ignores the mobile market in the shifting on internet traffic is sorely underestimating the future....but then...thats probably why you are complaining about sales in the first place....

[Some Guy]

There have always been shit sites with shit content and shit marketing run by lazy, shady people. Yet, sales didn't seem to start really taking a dump until a few years ago when these tube sites became super prominent. Hell, in my opinion the quality of sites has actually improved over the years. I remember some of the absolutely horrible sites that came and went ten years ago yet sales still rocked for sites that didn't suck.

Piracy seems like the big issue to me. Now, as L-Pink said, we have a whole generation of people who will never pay for porn. Nobody pays for porn anymore. Why would they? They can get everything they need for free. When I met my girlfriend she had YouPorn bookmarked in her favorites.

[NoWhErE]

Reason #1 : People think sales are shrinking, so they give up.

Truth : more sales are made every day, but the people that are making them are getting much more organised, base their efforts on analytics, think outside the box and provide better products than their competitors.

More people have access to credit cards, more countries have available billing solutions to them and the internet has a deeper market penetration which creates a massively bigger potential client base.

Its gotten harder to makes sales yes - but they are still out there.

[potter]

Originally Posted by Cylon

Yes, because all that didn't exist years ago when everyone was making money hand over fist.

Moron.

Pure ignorance, and even substantiates DomainJ's point.

"pssh whatever, this used to work ten years ago" - friggin hilarious....

[adultmobile]

Cam sales are not shrinking, at least not if you compare 2011 with 2012 as a full year sales. Can't compare 2005 with 2012 directly, but we're talking about last year, right?

[Marcus Aurelius]

Ever notice how it's mostly reps or affiliate programs (who are btw running borderline scam operations) that say that everything is great?

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius

Ever notice how it's mostly reps or affiliate programs (who are btw running borderline scam operations) that say that everything is great?

No, never noticed that.

Tell us more.

[fuzebox]

I have yet to find a tube that is satisfying to jerk off to. Shitty quality, bad organization, pop up hell.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

No, never noticed that.

Tell us more.

Well, reps try to lure in more affiliates by saying how great they are doing, and big borderline legal programs are doing good because of questionable business practices they engage in.

Simple webmasters are just getting fucked.

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

No, never noticed that.

Tell us more.

Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius

Well, reps try to lure in more affiliates by saying how great they are doing, and big borderline legal programs are doing good because of questionable business practices they engage in.

Simple webmasters are just getting fucked.

It was a rhetorical question.

[SwirlsGirl]

You do not have enough inaccurate data to draw a logical conclusion.

You will need a few more terra bytes of inaccurate data to detect any disconnect with your traffic sources.

bitching and moaning about bad sales when you should just be adding more traffic and shooting better content.

Happy to report we now have zero 0 sales days perfected and stabilized to 3 days a week consistently!

If you need some help stabilizing your zeros sales days hit me up....I can offer some help on how to ensure you have 3 days each week of sales holes or 0 sales.

Having 0 sales days is not a bad thing anymore because it helps keep your ratios and revenue under threshold and affords you more time to work on traffic instead of counting sales!

Hope that helps and let me know if you need further assistance!

[Rochard]

This is why Dating has become huge. Everyone is looking for love. Or to fuck.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Everyone is looking for love. Or to fuck.

Yeah, that's a totally recent thing, well observed.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by purecane73

If you actually PROVIDE a quality product...

And if that "quality product" is the actual PORN scenes...then it will simply get pirated and given away for free and devalued.

That is the one thing that it seems to me that some folks (like you) leave out of your theoretical equations.

Doesn't matter how "good" (which is a matter of perspective...some guys love self-shot porn that looks horrible) the stuff you are shooting is. If it gets stolen and given away for free, it's no better than anything else out there.

I had to make the decision 4 years ago that Claudia Marie's site was going to be mainly about interaction (free cam shows in the members area, direct messaging, etc.), and that the actual WORK we do (the PORN scenes themselves) is just a bonus.

It sucks because the PORN itself used to be so valuable. And the interaction was the icing on the cake that really made us successful.

Now the interaction IS the cake, and the actual porn is almost inconsequential.

[purecane]

Originally Posted by Robbie

And if that "quality product" is the actual PORN scenes...then it will simply get pirated and given away for free and devalued.

And your point is Valid Robbie....however...the only real reason surfers even join sites is they see something they want RIGHT NOW...most surfers do not spend nearly as much time surfing porn as 10 years ago....they pay for instant delivery and they STAY if that delivery is constant. if a surfer can go EXACTLY where they want for EXACTLY what they are looking for with no surfing around....they will....Tubes are now becoming their own worst enemy....popups ,misleading ads , installs....etc..etc..this has proven to be the case for every evolution of porn....TGPs,MGPs circlejerks.....etc.....produce quality content...do your due diligence and be vigilant...in the end CONTENT is ALWAYS king....and always will be...

its the PAYSITE model itself that needs to change.....everything else has already.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by purecane73

And your point is Valid Robbie....however...the only real reason surfers even join sites is they see something they want RIGHT NOW...most surfers do not spend nearly as much time surfing porn as 10 years ago.

You're 100% right and that's always how it's been.

Unfortunately...all those surfers who don't spend time surfing porn are at tube sites now.

If they were still surfing porn a little more, then maybe paysites would be getting the traffic they need.

As it stands now, a surfer can go to any of the big tube sites full of pirated and even legit full scenes. Then type in exactly what they want in the search box and within a couple of clicks they are jerking off to porn for free.

So now the entire "impulse" buy part of the business is gone for good.

Do you realize how many millions of dollars were made on Friday nights just a few years ago? Guy comes home drunk, didn't get laid, but he's been looking at a paysite tour for a while now and has it bookmarked.
He joins that night to satisfy his urges.

Now? He just goes to Pornhub, jerks off, and goes to bed.

No amount of "marketing" and gimmicks and "research" and "working smarter" and "better product"...or any other cool sounding words that people type on this forum is going to change that scenario.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Cystomatic

Post your top reasons why the sales are shrinking.

Here's mine:
1. Piracy. Why would I pay for a damn movie when I can get it for free?
2. Payments. It's too hard for users to pay, due to all the scams in the past, do people really trust us with their credit cards? (Something a friend told me a time ago, he just doesn't trust them with his sensitive data).


Note: I do know that the adult industry is FAR from dead, but we all have to agree that sales are shrinking and it's not as good as back in the day.

3. the content isn't relevant to the 'suffers' wants/needs..

[Joshua G]

i got a couple buddies who are casual porn customers. Both of them said that that tubes eliminated their need to buy porn & were happy for that. One said he would never buy porn again. The other subscribes to AEBN & catches what he wants via PPV.

my experience as a degenerate porn customer is that tubes are good for an occasional blast. But the content is so random. the search queries suck balls. & the gluttonous advertising, where just pressing play re-diects you to a pop up, just drives me nuts. Some sites buffer, killing the experience. & once in a blue moon a tube link downloads malware. I had to re-install my system one time because of a tube link.

I will pay, but for really fetish stuff i have not seen yet or the site excites me about joining. & it has to have a legit biller like CCBill or epoch.

so my take is there is still a market (given there are still big businesses bringing in big money) but its not & will never be what it was 10 years back. Most industries follow this curve anyway, as WOJ accurately points out.

My question is...if your complaining about tubes, why are you even trying to sell in this business? Find something else to do. I do what i do out of love, so nothing will ever stop me from making large breasts bounce, heavy & hard.

[Colmike9]

1) Webmasters are still promoting the same old sites with the sale old marketing/SEO techniques that no longer work..

I thought hard about that recently and switched up my 'game plan' and sales are flooding in again :

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by JoshGirls Josh

but its not & will never be what it was 10 years back. Most industries follow this curve anyway, as WOJ accurately points out.

I'm not so sure of that.

My family was in the Citrus Industry. It rises every year. Never follows a downward curve.

The car industry. Other than the brief recession...more cars sold every year. No downward curve after over 100 years.

The cell phone industry. Exploded about 15 years ago. Stronger than EVER right now with no end in sight.

Hollwood movies. No downward curve there after almost 100 years.

Matter of fact, I can't think of any industry that curves downward this hard. Of course, I can't think of any other industry that has it's product stolen and given away for free at the levels that the online porn industry has either.

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I'm not so sure of that.

My family was in the Citrus Industry. It rises every year. Never follows a downward curve.

The car industry. Other than the brief recession...more cars sold every year. No downward curve after over 100 years.

The cell phone industry. Exploded about 15 years ago. Stronger than EVER right now with no end in sight.

Hollwood movies. No downward curve there after almost 100 years.

Matter of fact, I can't think of any industry that curves downward this hard. Of course, I can't think of any other industry that has it's product stolen and given away for free at the levels that the online porn industry has either.

i can think of some industries...the horse drawn buggy, the steam locomotive builders, kodak film. polaroid camera. there used to be a big demand for whale oil before the oil industry was created.

but you are right, some businesses will always be around, like retail, clothes, food, entertainment, energy. These business, based on necessities, are cyclical. They have their heydays & their troughs. Nothing grows straight up & stays that way. Microsoft was huge, now it follows around apple & samsung. Apple was huge, nearly died, & is bigger now then ever. But sears is dying, walmart is thriving.

there will always be porn. as there will always be a hollywood, a music business. Whether it grows or shrinks is up to the people who make it & how innovative they are.

[Joshua G]

the porn industry itself, is cyclical. magazines used to sell like hotcakes in the 70s, 80s, thats how hef & gucionne made their fortunes. DVD had a heyday, & joe francis, stagliano, vivid, made millions. Now tubes are having their time in the sun, the manwin people are the winners. But last time i checked, score is still selling mags, making DVDs, selling memberships, & likely has tube content or tubes. People who stay stuck in a technology that comes & goes, & cannot evolve with tech, fade away. Those who see the changes, & change with them, find new cheese.

[Some Guy]

It seems to me, and I could be wrong, that the same thing is happening to the porn industry that happened to the music industry years ago. When people started downloading music for free the music industry starting hurting pretty bad. What did the music industry do to combat this? They started suing left and right and made it harder and harder for people to illegally share music. It didn't eradicate all of pirating but it took care of the major violators (Napster, Kazaa, Limewire) and now most people just buy their music again via iTunes. Perhaps it's time that the adult industry follow suit and starts going after the big tube sites?

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Matter of fact, I can't think of any industry that curves downward this hard.
.

the ice industry