Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

i am not saying it needs to be re-worded, just that rebel23's idea of all we need is 'freedom and the constitution' is just a sound bite that isn't thought out.

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

muh freedoms! get real, the constitution while a great thing is old and of course a lot of things that we need to protect the world we live in are not in it. and i am not talking about minimum wage but a million other things. the idea that you want 'freedom and the consitution' is such a simple statement that you clearly did not think it through.

Originally Posted by Relentless

That's VERY true and only gets worse when the people running a business are not the people who built the business. It's also exactly the reason why things like minimum wage are so important. You'd have a hard time finding any business with an actively engaged owner paying people under $9.00 per hour... this law isn't about them. It's about the bean counters in a central management accounting department who think paying $6.25 would look good on a spreadsheet and get them a promotion at a meeting about quarterly profits.

Originally Posted by Minte

The lowest starting wage that my business offers is $9.50. After 90 days it rises to $10.00. In 2012 we gave raises twice. We have skilled labor making over $24.00 per hour. We have a number of people in middle management making 60k + and top level management making 6 figures. That does not include the cost of health,dental,death and work comp insurances.

We also give no interest loans to employees after they have been with us a year. Up to $700. They can pay that back over a year. We have never been stung on one.

As far as the argument goes to whether the minimum should be raised. I haven't ever seen a benefit to having employees struggle. I hope there is no one in our organization that is receiving food stamps or assistance.

Originally Posted by crockett

Please tell us how having a min wage is destroying jobs for the unskilled? Do you mean no slaves or indentured servants?

I mean really.. If you can't pay someone $9 dollars an hour to do a job as a business, then your business has a lot more problems than worrying about min wage.

Originally Posted by rebel23

I want freedom and the constitution. There's no min. wage in the constitution.

Originally Posted by bl4h

I wanted to add something. Why would I pay you $30 an hour when I could pay an Indian $5 an hour and make their life great? I dont care if I need to do that because my business needs it. (many do in the US btw). thats besides the point. Why the hell would I pay you say $10 min wage, plus government required benefits, preventing other positions because i cant afford to pay another $10 an hour + benefits thus keeping another American unemployed, when i can pay another human being less, and offer more opportunities to others. I dont even own a business on that level, but that thought is absolutely retarded. Can anyone explain, please

Originally Posted by crockett

You don't have to pay me $30 dollars and hour. You are free to hire a Indian for 5 cents hour is you can get away with it. You just can't do it in the US or any country that has min wage requirements.

Originally Posted by keysync

$9.50 is easily within the range of still needing food stamps.
So while better than minimum wage. It's still very probable that some of your employees are in need of additional government assistance.

Originally Posted by crockett

You don't have to pay me $30 dollars and hour. You are free to hire a Indian for 5 cents hour is you can get away with it. You just can't do it in the US or any country that has min wage requirements.

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell

Yeah
Maybe
But I guarantee you that if I go and work for this Minte and I wanted to do better than living dying @ $9.50, he'd give me that chance if I wasn't a complete fuck up. Why in the name of christ walking on the moon should anyone be FORCED to pay someone more than they're willing to accept- ever? If people HAD TO BE WORTH A FUCK, they'd make more and actually do something. People right now can show up, manage to not fall asleep for eight hours and walk out with enough to exist on.

Originally Posted by crockett

No one is forcing you to pay anything. You have the choice to hire someone or not. If you don't like paying min wage then do it your self or move somewhere that doesn't have a min wage.

My guess is you have never hired a hourly worker in your life or ran a business that needed them. I can tell you from experience I would much rather pay more for someone whom does the job right, shows up for work everyday, than deal with the head ache of no shows, shitty attitude and half ass work that comes from paying low wages.

Of course you have never had to deal with these problems which is pretty obvious, other wise you would understand that time = money and saving a few dollars on lower wages usually means more lost money due to under production.

Besides that $9/hr is mouth breather wages, no one that is worth a shit is going to work for that anyway. The Free Market has already spoken, because any decent worker in the US can almost certainly find a job well above min wage. Meaning your argument is mute at best..

Originally Posted by bl4h

Mexicans are hard workers! For a few bucks under the table they will do twice the job as someone who feels they are comfortable. As I said, you are correct no one has to pay nor accept whats offered. and thats why everything is made in china, and if you need tech support they will be Indian. I cant believe the logic, when thats actually how life is happening right now. youre oblivious.

work is worth what people are willing to do it for. youre willing to do it for $30 an hour. good luck bro

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell

Yeah
Maybe
But I guarantee you that if I go and work for this Minte and I wanted to do better than living dying @ $9.50, he'd give me that chance if I wasn't a complete fuck up. Why in the name of christ walking on the moon should anyone be FORCED to pay someone more than they're willing to accept- ever? If people HAD TO BE WORTH A FUCK, they'd make more and actually do something. People right now can show up, manage to not fall asleep for eight hours and walk out with enough to exist on.

Originally Posted by bl4h

I wanted to add something. Why would I pay you $30 an hour when I could pay an Indian $5 an hour and make their life great? I dont care if I need to do that because my business needs it. (many do in the US btw). thats besides the point. Why the hell would I pay you say $10 min wage, plus government required benefits, preventing other positions because i cant afford to pay another $10 an hour + benefits thus keeping another American unemployed, when i can pay another human being less, and offer more opportunities to others. I dont even own a business on that level, but that thought is absolutely retarded. Can anyone explain, please

Originally Posted by jigg

I read somewhere to be above poverty the minimum wage/pay must be above $14/hr

Some companies would take advantage of no minimum wage. In South Florida wages are much lower than the rest of the country overall. My boyfriend interviewed at jobs where they wanted 5+ years experience with SQL/.Net and were paying $25-30/hr

Costco pay their employees almost full benefits and $16.75/hr or there about, and have the lowest turnover rate. It's owner/ceo even came out in favor of Obamacare.

Originally Posted by crockett

We used to use child labor in mills and coal mines, but things change.. Perhaps you should move to India, Pakistan or China.. I'm sure you could become quite the success story very little govt regulation and large pool of working slaves to do what every you want for pennies on the dollar.

Originally Posted by bl4h

then the jobs will move. its as simple as that. You can pay a mexican $4 an hour and there are plenty looking for work. The point is, no one has to pay americans this excessive amount of pay and benefit, and youd have to be an idiot to do so. AND, thats exactly whats happening

Originally Posted by crockett

No one is forcing you to pay anything. You have the choice to hire someone or not. If you don't like paying min wage then do it your self or move somewhere that doesn't have a min wage.

My guess is you have never hired a hourly worker in your life or ran a business that needed them. I can tell you from experience I would much rather pay more for someone whom does the job right, shows up for work everyday, than deal with the head ache of no shows, shitty attitude and half ass work that comes from paying low wages.

Of course you have never had to deal with these problems which is pretty obvious, other wise you would understand that time = money and saving a few dollars on lower wages usually means more lost money due to under production.

Besides that $9/hr is mouth breather wages, no one that is worth a shit is going to work for that anyway. The Free Market has already spoken, because any decent worker in the US can almost certainly find a job well above min wage. Meaning your argument is mute at best..

Originally Posted by keysync

There is no "yeah maybe" It's true.
For a family of three, the poverty line in federal fiscal year 2013 is $1,591 a month. Thus, 130 percent of the poverty line for a three-person family is $2,069 a month, or $24,828 a year.
$9.50/hr is $19,760/yr. Well under the $24k line it takes to get approved for food stamps.
$11.75/hr is still low enough to qualify for foodstamps.

I'm not saying anyone needs to be forced to pay anyone any amount of money.
I was just pointing out that Minte said "I hope no one in our organization needs government assistance."

This kind of thinking seems to me that he's naive to the struggles of people at that level of income. That's all.

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

so what? you expect americans to start accepting lower wages as the new norm so we can become like third world nations living in shanty villages? inflation is constantly making the prices of food, clothes, everything go up yet wages are not increasing at anywhere near the same rate. so now not only are most americans suffering due to the lack of wage increases in the face of rising inflation but now people like yourself want to get rid of the minimum wage so people make even less. where is the logic in that?

Originally Posted by tony286

australia $16 min wage and 5% percent unemployment. Im reading history and they said the same things, when they made child labor illegal in america.

Originally Posted by Minte

And I have worked closely with the staff over the years to not forget that it is the direct labor that makes the money. We are all just overhead.

Originally Posted by acctman

just so you know a lot of states have minimum wage higher that the proposed $9. It'll still be up to the state if it wishes to make the federal wage a requirement. As you can see from the link below a lot of states have no min. wages and its debatable if you can say they're doing better or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._minimum_wages

Originally Posted by mineistaken

Wyoming only 5.15$, thats way bellow any other state. Whats going on there, do they have benefits of that, like attracting businesses because of low wage?
This number 5.15$ is really out of line, whats the story behind it?

Originally Posted by mineistaken

Wyoming only 5.15$, thats way bellow any other state. Whats going on there, do they have benefits of that, like attracting businesses because of low wage?
This number 5.15$ is really out of line, whats the story behind it?

Originally Posted by woj

a. it probably means that minimum wage hasn't been raised for 20 years
b. it doesn't mean that people actually work for that much
c. benefit is that it results in one of the lowest unemployment rates in the whole country: 4.9%, source: www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

Originally Posted by slapass

Raising the minimum wage just creates inflation. It won't cost or create jobs. He wants to do it so that all the people under water on their houses, govt debt and banking debt all goes away easier. The bad news is anyone with money then gets hammered like all of those folks who rode the bond rally for the last ten years. Obama and company are doing whatever they can to create inflation.

PS People are screaming out of bonds as we speak. I wonder why?

Originally Posted by crockett

Mexicans work for low wages because 99.9% of the time they can't speak English and are here illegally. Also low wage/ illegals aren't very hard workers. They are just willing to do shitty jobs that no one wants because they know it keeps them under the radar. They do just enough to keep their jobs, but you won't find many illegals that are over achievers if you pay them shit. If you pay them well then they tend to work better just like anyone else.

Also they send most of their money back home to their families.. IE money leaves the country.

Originally Posted by Bryan G

Bell Canada outsourced their customer support to india. I switched over to rogers because I was sick and tired o speaking to someone that could not speak english.

Originally Posted by rebel23

How about abolish both.

Originally Posted by rebel23

During his State of the Union address last Tuesday, President Obama made only one tangible, simple proposal:

"A family with two kids that earns the minimum wage still lives below the poverty line. That's wrong... Tonight, let's declare that, in the wealthiest nation on Earth, no one who works full time should have to live in poverty, and raise the federal minimum wage to $9 an hour."

Immediately the idea was embraced by the left. Those on the right who objected, were considered elitist haters willing to trample the poor in pursuit of the mighty buck. Suffice it to say, caring about humanity and objecting to the proposed minimum wage hike are not mutually exclusive.

Peter Schiff of president & CEO Euro Pacific Capital isn't likely to cool the heated rhetoric but he does know how to make his point. Characterizing the proposal as the "stupidest" of the President's ideas, Schiff says a hike in the minimum wage would have exactly the opposite of the intended effect. "It's not going to lift the wages of workers," Schiff says in the attached video. "What it's going to do is diminish employment opportunities."

Companies paying minimum wage aren't necessarily rapacious. Being a cashier at Wal-Mart (WMT) or McDonalds (MCD) was never supposed to be considered a lifelong full-time job. However that makes one feel, is beside the point. It's capitalism. A higher minimum wage means lower margins. When you raise hiring costs you reduce the number of jobs available. Period.

"What we really should do is completely abolish the minimum wage, that would make a lot of sense," says Schiff, using Singapore as an example of a strong economy with no minimum wage. "We didn't have a minimum wage for most of American history. It's something that started in the 20th Century. It was a bad idea and we ought to admit that it was a bad idea and get rid of it completely."

Beyond the standard political rhetoric, the President's $9 proposal is flawed at its heart. Obama is right that it's a travesty for Americans working full-time to live in poverty. If the solution is a higher minimum wage, Obama isn't going nearly far enough at $9 an hour.

The family of three in the President's example is still below the poverty line by official government measures. Earning $9 an hour rate is equal to $18,000 a year. By neither the official measure nor by the yardstick of humanity is a family of three not impoverished if its making ends meet on $18,000 a year.

Putting minimum wage on the table for national discussion is the right thing to do. What's not right is for a second-term President to waste the opportunity he has to make a real difference. By pegging $9 to inflation Obama takes minimum off the table for years to come. He's squandering the one shot the Left has to do something meaningful.

Minimum wage should either be lower to get as many people on what Schiff calls the first rung of the employment ladder as possible, or much higher to actually ease some pain.

$9 just leads to fewer jobs for working poor. It's not a win for Liberalism or a blow to Conservatives. It's a cynical cop out; the kind the country has grown to expect from Washington.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/break...172858062.html

Originally Posted by Minte

We also give no interest loans to employees after they have been with us a year. .

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

Good article. Lots to think about.

The minimum wage should be raised - significantly higher than $9/hr. A rising tide lifts all boats.

Originally Posted by bl4h

youd have to have a tide to raise 315 million boats...................

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

WTF?

How would that work?

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

Good article. Lots to think about.

The minimum wage should be raised - significantly higher than $9/hr. A rising tide lifts all boats.

Originally Posted by Minte

The lowest starting wage that my business offers is $9.50. After 90 days it rises to $10.00. In 2012 we gave raises twice. We have skilled labor making over $24.00 per hour. We have a number of people in middle management making 60k + and top level management making 6 figures. That does not include the cost of health,dental,death and work comp insurances.

We also give no interest loans to employees after they have been with us a year. Up to $700. They can pay that back over a year. We have never been stung on one.

As far as the argument goes to whether the minimum should be raised. I haven't ever seen a benefit to having employees struggle. I hope there is no one in our organization that is receiving food stamps or assistance.

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

The tide lifts them all.

Originally Posted by CommonSense4u

How would that work? Umm Flat tax on buying goods, or flat tax on income. And minimum wage isn't needed. If you don't want to work for X amount of money that a job is offering.. DON'T TAKE THE JOB. Or take the job and work your ass off in order to get a raise.. Imagine that.. when people aren't handed something they didn't earn, they WORK HARDER to make more, do a better job, learn a better work ethic.



Good Lord you are a lefty crackpot.

Originally Posted by bl4h

how can there be a tide when were in trillions of debt already. more like a whirlpool sucking everyone into poverty. You think a lot like the government. Money just grows on trees

Originally Posted by slapass

Raising the minimum wage just creates inflation. It won't cost or create jobs. He wants to do it so that all the people under water on their houses, govt debt and banking debt all goes away easier. The bad news is anyone with money then gets hammered like all of those folks who rode the bond rally for the last ten years. Obama and company are doing whatever they can to create inflation.

PS People are screaming out of bonds as we speak. I wonder why?

Originally Posted by onwebcam

At $9 an hour you're still living in poverty. Abolish the income tax and you're getting somewhere.

Originally Posted by rebel23

How about abolish both.

Originally Posted by pornguy

Actually in the long run doing both would be best but I don't think the country could take a hit of both at the same time.

Getting rid of the min would be good in some aspects but strict laws that would be enforced about slave labor would need to be used.