Freedom and democracy - GoFuckYourself.com

just a punk · 03-11-2013, 01:38 AM

I know a lot of you guys/girls believe you are living in a democratic country and you have a freedom of speech.

It would be very interesting to hear why do you think that your country is more democratic than another one(s) and what exactly do you mean by "freedom of speech"? Please explain it with examples. E.g: "In <put your country name here> I have more freedom than in <put another country name here> because I can..."

Thank you in advance!

kane · 03-11-2013, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

I know a lot of you guys/girls believe you are living in a democratic country and you have a freedom of speech.

It would be very interesting to hear why do you think that your country is more democratic than another one(s) and what exactly do you mean by "freedom of speech"? Please explain it with examples. E.g: "In <put your country name here> I have more freedom than in <put another country name here> because I can..."

Thank you in advance!

In the United States I have more freedom than in many middle eastern countries because I can choose to not be religious and not have to fear for my life. My 16-year-old niece is allowed to drive a car and I don't have to worry about her being raped then her being thrown in jail for having sex outside of marriage while her rapist getting little or no punishment.

just a punk · 03-11-2013, 02:53 AM

kane, thanks I've got your point. Unfortunately it applies to almost any country including communist China and even some Islamic countries.

Is there anything that makes your country more free and democratic comparing to the rest of the World or at least with its bigger part.

Captain Kawaii · 03-11-2013, 03:06 AM

Freedom and Democracy are an illusion.

Some countries/people are enslaved by an ideology.
Some countries/people are enslaved by capitalism and debt.
Some countries/people are enslaved by extremists.
Some countries/people are enslaved by socialism/communism

In America,
We are free to consume
We are free to breathe
We are free to die

I have lived and worked in North America, Europe, North Africa, East Asia and Southeast Asia. I have seen the same story repeated again and again.

In 2013 the world is free to suffer fascism, the marriage of corporation and state.

This afternoon, my wife and I saw our first drone, for us, flying in from the Pacific and into the Inland Empire. I almost understood life in Afghanistan for a moment. Afghans never see the drones, they only suffer their cargo.

Freedom and Democracy are an illusion.

kane · 03-11-2013, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

kane, thanks I've got your point. Unfortunately it applies to almost any country including communist China and even some Islamic countries.

Is there anything that makes your country more free and democratic comparing to the rest of the World or at least with its bigger part.

I can't say if this country is more free the world as a whole. I think in some areas citizens of the US have more freedoms and in others there are different countries that likely do it better than we do. For example, I have no freedom of choice when it comes to income taxes. I have to pay them or face stiff penalties while Qatar has no income tax. Their citizens only pay a 5% tax into social security and nothing more. So I think it would be fair to say when it comes to taxes the citizens of Qatar have more freedom than me.

just a punk · 03-11-2013, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Kawaii

Freedom and Democracy are an illusion.

Sure. However you won't argue that some countries are more free and democratic than others. E.g. the USA vs extreme Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia, as kane pointed above.

just a punk · 03-11-2013, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

I can't say if this country is more free the world as a whole. I think in some areas citizens of the US have more freedoms and in others there are different countries that likely do it better than we do. For example, I have no freedom of choice when it comes to income taxes. I have to pay them or face stiff penalties while Qatar has no income tax. Their citizens only pay a 5% tax into social security and nothing more. So I think it would be fair to say when it comes to taxes the citizens of Qatar have more freedom than me.

In my country (Russia) the tax rate is as low as 6% if you are registered as a private entrepreneur. Also if you get caught for tax evasion, you will be fined but not imprisoned. Personally I don't think it's correct to involve the tax system into the discussion about freedom and democracy. IMHO.

kane · 03-11-2013, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

In my country (Russia) you the tax rate is as low as 6% if you are registered as a private entrepreneur. Also if you get caught for tax evasion, you will be fined but not imprisoned. Personally I don't think it's correct to involve the tax system into the discussion about freedom and democracy. IMHO.

I think taxes are fair game when we are talking about freedom and democracy. In my state we voted in a law that said any major statewide tax changes had to be voted on by the public. Because of that we have, on a few occasions, voted down a suggested sales tax and we have voted down suggested increases in property taxes. At the same time we have voted for some other taxes that people thought were for a good use. To me that is the essence of a democracy. The people get to choose what their money is spent on and they are able to keep the government from taking their money whenever they want.

just a punk · 03-11-2013, 03:40 AM

Now I see what you mean. Course if you have a right to affect the tax rates via direct voting, it's really the essence of a democracy.

Captain Kawaii · 03-11-2013, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Sure. However you won't argue that some countries are more free and democratic than others. E.g. the USA vs extreme Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia, as kane pointed above.

That would be valid except Saudi was created by Brits with help from Euro countries to stem the flow of Ottomans. Since then its been run be sleazy royal family. They run all aspects. Saudi serves a purpose posing as an extremist country. Gives people here something to hate while its leadership whores, gambles, gets wasted on expensive alcohol and is fairly well involved in human trafficking. Not as much as US but.

Westerners are exposed to the news western governments want us to be exposed to.

You are missing the point of my post. Its all in the perspective. Anyway.

Captain Kawaii · 03-11-2013, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

I think taxes are fair game when we are talking about freedom and democracy. In my state we voted in a law that said any major statewide tax changes had to be voted on by the public. Because of that we have, on a few occasions, voted down a suggested sales tax and we have voted down suggested increases in property taxes. At the same time we have voted for some other taxes that people thought were for a good use. To me that is the essence of a democracy. The people get to choose what their money is spent on and they are able to keep the government from taking their money whenever they want.

I currently live in California. Californians have no idea what their tax dollars are really spent on. Its a shell game here. Entirely. For example, with only 25 per cent actually following the sequester BS what kind of informed decisions are people really making? Next to Illinois, California is easily the most corrupted state in whats left of the union. There is no democracy. There is lip service and a going through the motions. .

At a national level we have a congressional committee meeting in secret to determine immigration overhaul. Democracy? Really?

slapass · 03-11-2013, 05:20 AM

Westerners who don't realize they have more freedom then other countries are total idiots. Talk to someone who lives in poverty and has no education or way out. Or a politically repressed country like North Korea.

The US and most of Europe hae the same thing in that you cam earn money pretty easily and it allows you to do what you want within the law. The complaint over and over about this and that shows how free you are.

BlackCrayon · 03-11-2013, 05:21 AM

The amount of protesters arrested in Russia and many other countries is a bit troubling.

just a punk · 03-11-2013, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

Westerners who don't realize they have more freedom then other countries are total idiots.

Explain with examples please. And I don't think it's a good idea to compare any country with North Korea. Why don't compare Western World with Japan, South Korea, Taiwan etc. Also you can compare it with Eastern Europe, Australia etc..

just a punk · 03-11-2013, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

The amount of protesters arrested in Russia and many other countries is a bit troubling.

This also needs to be bucked up with facts. I don't know anybody who has been arrested for protesting here in Russia. People gets arrested for disobeying/resisting police, but not just for protests. If you have some other information, please share.

Cherry7 · 03-11-2013, 09:28 AM

Rights and freedoms are very important, and people fought and died for a lot of the rights and freedoms enjoyed in western countries. The right to strike, to publish, to demonstrate. Although when you try it you will find your self pepper sprayed !

As for democracy a question could be asked when has your voice been heard and change made by yourself?

What laws or change have you brought about?

Then we see that normal people are just bystanders and the rich control the show.

_Richard_ · 03-11-2013, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

This also needs to be bucked up with facts. I don't know anybody who has been arrested for protesting here in Russia. People gets arrested for disobeying/resisting police, but not just for protests. If you have some other information, please share.

how are those teenage girls doing in prison anyway?

you know, the ones who sang a song in church?

just a punk · 03-11-2013, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

how are those teenage girls doing in prison anyway?

you know, the ones who sang a song in church?

1) They are not teenagers a long time ago

))))

2) And you are totally right they got the prison time for their punk action in the church. They haven't been imprisoned for protesting. They've been punished for "hooliganism which caused defamation of religions, religious and ideological associations". There is a penalty for it in Russian criminal code which has analogs in Western countries too (e.g. Defamation of religions, religious and ideological associations in Germany). Personally I don't support such a punishment and always was against of it but the law is the law.

3) Whey already did a very similar feminist anti-Putin protest punk action right on the Red Square and they were not punished for it, because they did it legal way. See this video:

So the conclusion is: you can protest against anything you want in Russia but please don't break the law (don't punch policemen, don't defame churches or other religious or ideological associations etc) This rule works not just for Russia but for Western countries too. Hope you've got that I'm talking about.

_Richard_ · 03-11-2013, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

1) They are not teenagers a long time ago

))))
2) And you are totally right they got the prison time for their punk action in the church. They haven't been imprisoned for protesting. The got their punishment for "hooliganism which causes insulting of religious people". There is a penalty for it in Russian criminal code which has analogs in Western countries too (e.g. Defamation of religions, religious and ideological associations in German Criminal Code). Personally I don't support such a punishment but the law is the law.
3) Whey already did a very similar femenist anti-Putin protest punk action right on the Red Square and they were not punished for it, because they did it legal way. See this video:

So the conclusion is: you can protest against anything you want but please don't break the law.

in a democratic society there is a separation of church and state

so if i were to break into a catholic church here and sing a song about.. the devil

know what would happen?

i wouldn't go to jail.

they'd probably clap

but your religious types, are so serious and defensive about their faith, if another person represents their faith in a different way, that person goes to prison utilizing state powers

you live in a theocrazy. thanks for the update

just a punk · 03-11-2013, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

in a democratic society there is a separation of church and state

So Germany is not a democracy anymore, right? Did you read the German Criminal Code? What about other countries? Click the links, read and then reply please.

just a punk · 03-11-2013, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

you live in a theocrazy. thanks for the update

You are welcome. English is not my mother language so sometimes I need to do some revision of my posts to make them more readable for you, Sir.

just a punk · 03-11-2013, 10:57 AM

_Richard_, you're a Canadian guy. Is that correct? If so, please explain WTF is that then: https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1102609 ???

I really can't believe that could happen in a free and a democratic country, because it looks like a crazy circus of absurd. In my country (you say it's called "theocrazy", right?) you can speak/write in ANY language you want and of course you can use any language in you operating system. Nobody will give a single fuck about it as long as your OS is obtained by legal ways (piracy is illegal).

_Richard_ · 03-11-2013, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

So Germany is not a democracy anymore, right? Did you read the German Criminal Code? What about other countries? Click the links, read and then reply please.

replied!

8char

_Richard_ · 03-11-2013, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

_Richard_, you're a Canadian guy. Is that correct? If so, please explain WTF is that then: https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1102609 ???

I really can't believe that could happen in a free and a democratic country, because it looks like a crazy circus of absurd. In my country (you say it's called "theocrazy", right?) you can speak/write in ANY language you want and of course you can use any language in you operating system. Nobody will give a single fuck about it as long as your OS is obtained by legal ways (piracy is illegal).

yes im canadian, and no, i can't explain that

however, languages have nothing to do with religion or state.. so.

Sid70 · 03-11-2013, 11:04 AM

Ivan, I thought you were well programmed by Pooteen but it seems like you're having doubts now and looking to find a proof for yourself. Poor fella.

BlackCrayon · 03-11-2013, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

_Richard_, you're a Canadian guy. Is that correct? If so, please explain WTF is that then: https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1102609 ???

I really can't believe that could happen in a free and a democratic country, because it looks like a crazy circus of absurd. In my country (you say it's called "theocrazy", right?) you can speak/write in ANY language you want and of course you can use any language in you operating system. Nobody will give a single fuck about it as long as your OS is obtained by legal ways (piracy is illegal).

thats a provincial (state) problem, not a federal one.

Quote:

Putin has recently signed off on laws significantly increasing for fines for violations of regulations on protests, widening the definition of treason, recriminalizing libel, and introducing internet censorship.

Mass protests against alleged electoral fraud in favor of Putin?s United Russia party at the December 2011 parliamentary elections gave birth to a broad coalition of groups opposed to the former KGB man?s 13-year rule as prime minister and president.

A number of protest figures have since been jailed or are facing criminal charges. Putin denies, however, that a crackdown is underway, saying last year that ?everyone? must obey Russia?s laws.

Sid70 · 03-11-2013, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

_ Nobody will give a single fuck about it as long as your OS is obtained by legal ways (piracy is illegal).

Not giving a fuck is a Russian motto.

just a punk · 03-11-2013, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

yes im canadian, and no, i can't explain that

however, languages have nothing to do with religion or state.. so.

The Russian and German codes have nothing to do with religion either. Please read the link careful. The German Criminal Code is written in your own mother language. You should be able to understand it.

As about the "language police", you are right again. It has nothing to do with religion or state because it's just a pure essence of freedom. If you forgot, we are talking only about freedom and democracy here.

just a punk · 03-11-2013, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

thats a provincial (state) problem, not a federal one.

So it have nothing to do with freedom? Do you mean that only "federal problems" really matter?

Nydahl · 03-11-2013, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

In the United States I have more freedom than in many middle eastern countries because I can choose to not be religious and not have to fear for my life. My 16-year-old niece is allowed to drive a car and I don't have to worry about her being raped then her being thrown in jail for having sex outside of marriage while her rapist getting little or no punishment.

well man you are typical example of US naivety - USA is 1 big example of massive controlled propaganda - it has nothing to do with freedom. You are not free cowboys.
Anyway makind gave up the freedom voluntary - thee is no freedom anymore and most funny is that people dont want it.
And democracy is simply the system which doesn't work - its just lobby , corruption and propaganda from pressure groups.The most of the poeple are just slaves.
I can say for myself that I am disspointed - but maybe I am just getting too old for this shit.

_Richard_ · 03-11-2013, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

The Russian and German codes have nothing to do with religion either. Please read the link careful. The German Criminal Code is written in your own mother language. You should be able to understand it.

As about the "language police", you are right again. It has nothing to do with religion or state because it's just a pure essence of freedom. If you forgot, we are talking only about freedom and democracy here.

yes, and as a french province they have the freedom to set forth laws stating 'french is required to be the main language'

they don't have laws saying "french only".. while that happens obviously, IF there were 'french only laws', that would be against 'freedom and democracy' as you are understanding it

_Richard_ · 03-11-2013, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nydahl

well man you are typical example of US naivety - USA is 1 big example of massive controlled propaganda - it has nothing to do with freedom. You are not free cowboys.
Anyway makind gave up the freedom voluntary - thee is no freedom anymore and most funny is that people dont want it.
And democracy is simply the system which doesn't work - its just lobby , corruption and propaganda from pressure groups.The most of the poeple are just slaves.
I can say for myself that I am disspointed - but maybe I am just getting too old for this shit.

i am free

take it from me

MaDalton · 03-11-2013, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

1) They are not teenagers a long time ago

))))

2) And you are totally right they got the prison time for their punk action in the church. They haven't been imprisoned for protesting. They've been punished for "hooliganism which caused defamation of religions, religious and ideological associations". There is a penalty for it in Russian criminal code which has analogs in Western countries too (e.g. Defamation of religions, religious and ideological associations in Germany). Personally I don't support such a punishment and always was against of it but the law is the law.

3) Whey already did a very similar feminist anti-Putin protest punk action right on the Red Square and they were not punished for it, because they did it legal way. See this video:

So the conclusion is: you can protest against anything you want in Russia but please don't break the law (don't punch policemen, don't defame churches or other religious or ideological associations etc) This rule works not just for Russia but for Western countries too. Hope you've got that I'm talking about.

please stop quoting german laws when it comes to that, the maximum what would have happened to the pussy riot girls in germany would have been a fine.

but for sure no labor camp

and if you're not convinced please show one single case where someone went to jail for that in Germany - you would have to burn that fucking church down including people in there before it comes to that

saw a nice documentary recently - gay protest in Moscow

neonazis beat up the gays, police stepped in, beat up the gays some more and then high fived the nazis.

but i'm sure it's the gay peoples fault somehow

Nydahl · 03-11-2013, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

i am free

take it from me

U think you are

_Richard_ · 03-11-2013, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nydahl

U think you are

yes, the one and only requirement

now do you?

fris · 03-11-2013, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

I know a lot of you guys/girls believe you are living in a democratic country and you have a freedom of speech.

It would be very interesting to hear why do you think that your country is more democratic than another one(s) and what exactly do you mean by "freedom of speech"? Please explain it with examples. E.g: "In <put your country name here> I have more freedom than in <put another country name here> because I can..."

Thank you in advance!

well in your country can you go out in the street and say the president is an idiot without getting arrested?

just a punk · 03-11-2013, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

please stop quoting german laws when it comes to that

Stefan, this is the LAW. You can agree with it or not, but you can't break it. I know that the Pussy Riot's punishment was unfair and I'm not a Putin's fan and I'm also fear for the girls (they don't deserve it). However they have agreed to play this game and they gave a formal reason the Putin's system to punish them according the LAW. Yes, is was a formal thing, but they had all chances to avoid the problems like they already did it on the Red Square. They wanted to go further and they got that they were for...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nydahl

U think you are

Exactly

_Richard_ · 03-11-2013, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Exactly

do you believe you are free?

Nydahl · 03-11-2013, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

yes, the one and only requirement

now do you?

How can any1 be free with all those cams , cells phone trackings , bugging , aiport checks , records and I don't what
I am pretty far from being free - but at least I don't pretend to be.

just a punk · 03-11-2013, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fris

well in your country can you go out in the street and say the president is an idiot without getting arrested?

Yes of course:

Everything you see above you are allowed to do. The only thing is that you must not beat and resist police. Otherwise you may have some real troubles.

just a punk · 03-11-2013, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

do you believe you are free?

No. I don't. In the same way as you or anyone else. No less and mo more. Do you REALLY believe you are free?

Sid70 · 03-11-2013, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

i am free

take it from me

about right:

http://www.sida.se/Global/About%20Si...ex_Dec2011.pdf

BlackCrayon · 03-11-2013, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

No. I don't. In the same way as you or anyone else. No less and mo more. Do you REALLY believe you are free?

do the majority of russians actually support putin? is it actually possible for someone else to be elected?

just a punk · 03-11-2013, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nydahl

How can any1 be free with all those cams , cells phone trackings , bugging , aiport checks , records and I don't what
I am pretty far from being free - but at least I don't pretend to be.

It's a very rare thing to see someone here who can think out of the cell. My respect

BlackCrayon · 03-11-2013, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

So it have nothing to do with freedom? Do you mean that only "federal problems" really matter?

as much as i don't agree with these language laws, part of freedom is allowing provinces the freedom to pass laws the rest of the country might not agree with.

just a punk · 03-11-2013, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

do the majority of russians actually support putin? is it actually possible for someone else to be elected?

The majority (people that you are used to be called rednecks) is really support him. On the other hand, the educated part (minority) including me - don't. The worst thing is that he is being supported by the US administration, the EU and Israel (a country which was first to officially congratulate Putin's party with a "earnest and honest victory" at the last elections). These facts speak for themselves IMHO...

just a punk · 03-11-2013, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

as much as i don't agree with these language laws, part of freedom is allowing provinces the freedom to pass laws the rest of the country might not agree with.

Shit happens

BlackCrayon · 03-11-2013, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

The majority (people that you are used to be called rednecks) is really support him. On the other hand, the educated part (minority) including me - don't. The worst thing is that he is being supported by the US administration, the EU and Israel (a country which was first to officially congratulate Putin's party with a "earnest and honest victory" at the last elections). These facts speak for themselves IMHO...

seems to be a lot of corruption associated with putin's government but the same could be said for many countries. do i think i am free? well, like metallica said, freedom with their exception.

_Richard_ · 03-11-2013, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nydahl

How can any1 be free with all those cams , cells phone trackings , bugging , aiport checks , records and I don't what
I am pretty far from being free - but at least I don't pretend to be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

No. I don't. In the same way as you or anyone else. No less and mo more. Do you REALLY believe you are free?

im sorry to hear that.

Freedom is an Option

Do you choose to be free?

Sid70 · 03-11-2013, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

do the majority of russians actually support putin? is it actually possible for someone else to be elected?

No.

There are the reasons WH ( original Russian slang )

- С хуевых времен народы нашего ареала ВЫНУЖДЕНЫ были соснуть хуйца: царьки и крепосное право отымели поколения всласть

Since the deep ass times our ( slavic ) nations sucked big time: semi-fucked up tsars, all the villagers would be slaves to their tsars.

- Ибанутые манголы реально абасрали генофонд азиатщиной, как результат философия "наеби ближнего" становится способом выжывания

Motherfucking mongols really did a huge sperm impact into our DNA, as a result the every day philosophy "fuck your neighbour" prevails till now days.

- Пока в Европах гоняют шнягу с демократическими ценностями мы прoдолжаем машштабна атсасывать

While in Europe they were playing with democracy we massively kept sucking!

- Гоп-спадин Ленин за деньги реально замутил полную жопу в стране, и было выебано много образованного народа, остальныйе крысанули в Пориж. Остались сцыкло, предатели и убиийцы.

Criminal Lenin fucked the country in the ass for money, a lot of educated and blue-blooded people were killed, the rest sneaked out to Paris. The only left were cowards, traitors and murderers.

- Сталин зачистил остатки "роскоши" и свободомыслия в тщен, господство уебанского менталитета заполнило страну

Stalin methodically cleaned up the rest of high society and tho who were able to think differently, enslaved filled the country with their low profile mentality.

- Война нахуй убила остатки смелых и честных людей

WW2 fucking killed the rest of the brave and honest.

- и 70 мазафакиных лет страну терзала Компартия
70 years + the country have been terrorized by Commies.

Now the Russian sits out there thinking out loud about democracy. I dunno, could be he
is the one of those blue-blooded survivors...

Any more questions?

03-11-2013, 01:38 AM	#1
just a punk So fuckin' bored Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 32,381	Freedom and democracy I know a lot of you guys/girls believe you are living in a democratic country and you have a freedom of speech. It would be very interesting to hear why do you think that your country is more democratic than another one(s) and what exactly do you mean by "freedom of speech"? Please explain it with examples. E.g: "In <put your country name here> I have more freedom than in <put another country name here> because I can..." Thank you in advance! __________________ Obey the Cowgod

03-11-2013, 02:53 AM	#3
just a punk So fuckin' bored Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 32,381	kane, thanks I've got your point. Unfortunately it applies to almost any country including communist China and even some Islamic countries. Is there anything that makes your country more free and democratic comparing to the rest of the World or at least with its bigger part. __________________ Obey the Cowgod

03-11-2013, 03:40 AM	#9
just a punk So fuckin' bored Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 32,381	Now I see what you mean. Course if you have a right to affect the tax rates via direct voting, it's really the essence of a democracy. __________________ Obey the Cowgod

03-11-2013, 05:21 AM	#13
BlackCrayon Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ottawa Posts: 19,631	The amount of protesters arrested in Russia and many other countries is a bit troubling. __________________ you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

03-11-2013, 09:28 AM	#16
Cherry7 Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,564	Rights and freedoms are very important, and people fought and died for a lot of the rights and freedoms enjoyed in western countries. The right to strike, to publish, to demonstrate. Although when you try it you will find your self pepper sprayed ! As for democracy a question could be asked when has your voice been heard and change made by yourself? What laws or change have you brought about? Then we see that normal people are just bystanders and the rich control the show. __________________ My Neighbour Butterfly PORN-The Musical The Long Goodbye Cinema Erotique

03-11-2013, 03:06 AM	#4
Captain Kawaii So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 6,748	Freedom and Democracy are an illusion. Some countries/people are enslaved by an ideology. Some countries/people are enslaved by capitalism and debt. Some countries/people are enslaved by extremists. Some countries/people are enslaved by socialism/communism In America, We are free to consume We are free to breathe We are free to die I have lived and worked in North America, Europe, North Africa, East Asia and Southeast Asia. I have seen the same story repeated again and again. In 2013 the world is free to suffer fascism, the marriage of corporation and state. This afternoon, my wife and I saw our first drone, for us, flying in from the Pacific and into the Inland Empire. I almost understood life in Afghanistan for a moment. Afghans never see the drones, they only suffer their cargo. Freedom and Democracy are an illusion.

03-11-2013, 05:20 AM	#12
slapass Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 14,627	Westerners who don't realize they have more freedom then other countries are total idiots. Talk to someone who lives in poverty and has no education or way out. Or a politically repressed country like North Korea. The US and most of Europe hae the same thing in that you cam earn money pretty easily and it allows you to do what you want within the law. The complaint over and over about this and that shows how free you are.

03-11-2013, 10:57 AM	#22
just a punk So fuckin' bored Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 32,381	_Richard_, you're a Canadian guy. Is that correct? If so, please explain WTF is that then: https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1102609 ??? I really can't believe that could happen in a free and a democratic country, because it looks like a crazy circus of absurd. In my country (you say it's called "theocrazy", right?) you can speak/write in ANY language you want and of course you can use any language in you operating system. Nobody will give a single fuck about it as long as your OS is obtained by legal ways (piracy is illegal). __________________ Obey the Cowgod

03-11-2013, 11:04 AM	#25
Sid70 Downshifter Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Road trip Posts: 16,413	Ivan, I thought you were well programmed by Pooteen but it seems like you're having doubts now and looking to find a proof for yourself. Poor fella. __________________ Русня, идите нахуй!